2013: The Year France Confronts Islam?

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PostFri Jan 04, 2013 9:17 pm » by Phaeton


monica44 wrote:I said supposed, and given that in the UK, we have adverts shoved down our throats begging for money to give to the poor nations, they are appealing to the fact we should be grateful for our lot, that we in western world are supposed to believe that we are living in enlightened times, but you are right phaeton, unfortunately, we are not, because there would be no war or famine, disease or want if we were.




..And there would be no Jersey Shore, thats for damn sure..


We are a confused blindfolded hogtied rape victim drugged out of our minds.
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PostSat Jan 05, 2013 4:52 am » by Iwanci


so... what if gave all our money to these so called impoverished countries.. do you truly believe we would solve anything... or would we create more problems??

Give a man a fish you feed him for a day.... teach a man to fish you feed him for a lifetime... provided he has a pond, or lives near the sea, and we havent poluted the bejesus out of the water, and the fish aren't contaminated... and and and,,....


My point, there has ALWAYS been poverty, there always will be... why? Because this is the way it works.. no matter how much money you have, there is always someone with more, and the more you give away, the lesser the value of that money and the more you need to give away and the lesser the power of that money.. etc etc etc... and this is why there will ALWAYS be poverty...

You must help, but in small doses.... and you need to show people how tohelp themselves.. this way, through time, the wheel turns...
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PostSat Jan 05, 2013 5:45 pm » by Phaeton


Iwanci wrote:so... what if gave all our money to these so called impoverished countries.. do you truly believe we would solve anything... or would we create more problems??

Give a man a fish you feed him for a day.... teach a man to fish you feed him for a lifetime... provided he has a pond, or lives near the sea, and we havent poluted the bejesus out of the water, and the fish aren't contaminated... and and and,,....


My point, there has ALWAYS been poverty, there always will be... why? Because this is the way it works.. no matter how much money you have, there is always someone with more, and the more you give away, the lesser the value of that money and the more you need to give away and the lesser the power of that money.. etc etc etc... and this is why there will ALWAYS be poverty...

You must help, but in small doses.... and you need to show people how tohelp themselves.. this way, through time, the wheel turns...


There will always be poverty because we see those people as 'them' instead of 'us'.

Because the people in charge of large multinationals do not care about the people they profit of.

Because they pay the political top of such nations to keep the status quo.

Because the love of power is greater than the power of love. Which translates into selfishness instead of empathy. Competition instead of cooperation.

If we wanted to, poverty could be removed globally within a decade.
"Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who could not hear the music"
"All our science measured against reality, is primitive and childlike - yet, in contemporary consensus, its the most precious thing we have"


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PostSat Jan 05, 2013 10:42 pm » by Flecktarn


Phaeton wrote:
Iwanci wrote:so... what if gave all our money to these so called impoverished countries.. do you truly believe we would solve anything... or would we create more problems??

Give a man a fish you feed him for a day.... teach a man to fish you feed him for a lifetime... provided he has a pond, or lives near the sea, and we havent poluted the bejesus out of the water, and the fish aren't contaminated... and and and,,....


My point, there has ALWAYS been poverty, there always will be... why? Because this is the way it works.. no matter how much money you have, there is always someone with more, and the more you give away, the lesser the value of that money and the more you need to give away and the lesser the power of that money.. etc etc etc... and this is why there will ALWAYS be poverty...

You must help, but in small doses.... and you need to show people how tohelp themselves.. this way, through time, the wheel turns...


There will always be poverty because we see those people as 'them' instead of 'us'.

Because the people in charge of large multinationals do not care about the people they profit of.

Because they pay the political top of such nations to keep the status quo.

Because the love of power is greater than the power of love. Which translates into selfishness instead of empathy. Competition instead of cooperation.

If we wanted to, poverty could be removed globally within a decade.

:clapper: :clapper: :clapper: :clapper: :clapper: true words
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PostSat Jan 05, 2013 10:50 pm » by *WillEase*


Phaeton wrote:Because the love of power is greater than the power of love. Which translates into selfishness instead of empathy. Competition instead of cooperation.


It's ironic you put it that way because "The Trumpet" said the same thing...
http://www.thetrumpet.com/article/4596. ... -gods-love

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PostSun Jan 06, 2013 3:51 pm » by Iwanci


With all due respect Phaeton, your words are meaningless and have been spoken way too often through the years with zero effect...

You say 'we' see the poor as 'them'? The same way YOU see the rich and powerfull as 'them'.?

The love of power is greater than the power of love? What a load of rubbish. Do you think that money and wealth are the only sources of power? Do you think that the love of 'power' does not exisit in poverty stricken countries? You put two people on an island.. you know what comes next don't you? You ever seen what happens in jails? There is more to power than wealth. POWER even permeates through children...Do you ever see power play with children? The dominant child who wants the attention of other children? Has nothing to do with wealth...

Sorry my friend but where have you read these words?? I can tell you ONE truth, WORDS of these effect have made NO difference to anything anywhere other than to give people a 'greater than thou' feeling, and such a feeling is counterproductive and hypocrytical.

The real truth is a lot harsher than one may like to accept, but it is the truth nonetheless.

Poverty, as we know it, will always bo with us. People like YOU and ME and everyone else that can afford to pay for the internet and accompanying hardware to surf it are living proof of this and proof of the reality of the world we live in.

Define this my friend... what is poverty? what is wealth? Does the fact that neither you or I own Billions of dollars in wealth make us poor? Does it make us anymore humble? Does it empower us or disempower us by any means? What is the cut off point where you (and those like you) will stop segregating the human race? What is the dollar amount that separates the poor from the rich?

What I see repeatedly by people who like to talk and recite scripture and other religious dogman is a clear double standard and a hypocracy that knows no bounds.

How about this for a change.. how about we stop thinking and labelling people altogether, no more color or gender bias, no more religious differences, no more wealth based discrimination... how about we all just start looking at each other for whom we really are.... the same human race.

You see, what I have learnt is that in our haste to work out what divides us we often find the true culprit within us... so what if people are rich? who gives you or I the right to judge? So corporations are greedy are they?? Bullshit! Corporations can never be greedy, they are infact inanimate... how about the people who run these greedy corporations??? they are greedy themselevs and the cause of all the social issues on this planet do they??

How about the greedy 'investors' who have shares in these greedy corporations, the same investors that demand to see their dividends and the value of their investments grow? the same investors who appoint board members and purchase these investments on the basis of the profits they can promise and then set about demanding these at any cost and in doing so provide the so called industry leaders with a mandate to turn their corporations into the greedy places you talk about?

Let's start with some home truths my friend... do you own any investments directly or indirectly through a pension or retirment fund perhaps? Own a house? What do you do if your investment adviser tells you that your investment has not generated any growth in the past 3 years and is unlikely to ever do so? Do you keep your money invested there?

I am saying this because people are guilty of pointing their fingers at 'others' and making up sheer bullshit excuses whilst turning a blind eye on the real culprit, themselves. And where do we see the same hypocracy displayed time and time again?? In religion... blame everything on this 'thing' called the devil.... hypocracy as far as the eye can see and not many people ready to stand up and call out exactly what this is... BULLSHIT!

Can poverty ever be stopped??? No... but maybe in a perfect world Phaeton, just maybe, people like you and I would be all too willing to give up what we own, our houses, our vehicles, our jobs, our way of life and share our so called 'riches' with those less fortunate.... and here's the other question for you... what will be left to give up when noone owns anything anymore? And, when exactly can we expect the perfect world to commence? I have looked at my history, and in no time period can I see a time where there was total equality between people... actually, when I look at nature I struggle to see total equality in any living thing.

You can quote all the trumpet and/or religious dogma 'thanks for telling us nothing we didn't already know' quotes till the cows come home, and that is all you will ever likely achieve, the disseminator of useless information...but hey, as long as it makes you feel warm inside... afterall jesus did tell his disciples to go forth and spread the word right? Imagine if we all did that. there would be nothing left to talk about.

Honestly, sometimes one needs to sit back and look at themselves before casting aspirtions, take responsibility for what YOU do before judging others, and for crying out loud, stop trying to blame everything on 'the devil' or 'the PTB' or 'the greedy corporations' or any other unkown imaginery figment of your imagination... time to WAKE up and take responsibility, MAN (you and I and everyone else on this planet) is the ONLY culprit, we have ourslevs to blame for the shit we contribute to and ourselves to praise for the wonderful things we achieve, but even that is a matter of perspective..don't you think?

Ok rant over...
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PostMon Jan 07, 2013 4:59 pm » by Phaeton


Iwanci wrote:With all due respect Phaeton, your words are meaningless and have been spoken way too often through the years with zero effect...

I am offering my opinion Iwanci. I dont know about you but when offering my opinion, I do not expect some global revolution to change the world. Although it would be nice ofcourse.


You say 'we' see the poor as 'them'? The same way YOU see the rich and powerfull as 'them'.?

Thats right, I see 'the rich and powerful' who strive against 'The People' - in the West or anywhere else - who think themselves apex, as 'them'. For they are my and your enemy, by very definition. They think they are a special breed, superior to the man on the street holding his hand up for some cash. By their own mindset, they set themselves apart from 'us', and make themselves 'them'. And Im not talking about the odd succeful bankclerq or manager, you know who Im talking about. The poor do not fall into this category, obviously.

The love of power is greater than the power of love? What a load of rubbish. Do you think that money and wealth are the only sources of power? Do you think that the love of 'power' does not exisit in poverty stricken countries? You put two people on an island.. you know what comes next don't you? You ever seen what happens in jails? There is more to power than wealth. POWER even permeates through children...Do you ever see power play with children? The dominant child who wants the attention of other children? Has nothing to do with wealth...

?! Did I use the words money and wealth Iwanci? I think not. I also did not state the love of power only resides in Western countries. I did state for this situation to end, we need to grow the fuck up [yes, we are like children] and realize THEY, the poor and maltreated, are US. Would you still go about your day asif nothing is wrong when YOUR family living in Sudan is dying of hunger because the West covertly initiated a break up of the country to gain more control over its natural resources creating utter chaos?

Our political leaders only have their [political] interests at heart. Foreign aid? Give me a break. Foreign aid is a sham. It keeps us sleeping like a baby at night, thinking we do our part in helping these people. While all it does is keep the status quo in place.


Sorry my friend but where have you read these words?? I can tell you ONE truth, WORDS of these effect have made NO difference to anything anywhere other than to give people a 'greater than thou' feeling, and such a feeling is counterproductive and hypocrytical.

Dude..
Do I really need to respond to this? You seem to get emotional again. 'Counterproductive' indeed.


The real truth is a lot harsher than one may like to accept, but it is the truth nonetheless.

Poverty, as we know it, will always bo with us. People like YOU and ME and everyone else that can afford to pay for the internet and accompanying hardware to surf it are living proof of this and proof of the reality of the world we live in.

Define this my friend... what is poverty? what is wealth? Does the fact that neither you or I own Billions of dollars in wealth make us poor? Does it make us anymore humble? Does it empower us or disempower us by any means? What is the cut off point where you (and those like you) will stop segregating the human race? What is the dollar amount that separates the poor from the rich?

Poverty my emotional friend, is not knowing whether you eat at the end of the day.
Poverty is seeing your child die in front of your eyes from malnutrition. The united states alone spends around 711 billion [2011] a year on her military. And please dont come to me with 'theyre bringing democracy, releaving people of their vile dictators'. Just, please. The US spends those unimaginable, potentially world changing sums of [OUR] cash to maintain and / or extend their global POWER. Theres that word again. And who profits from that? Corporations, which are owned by the elite. Which we work for to pay government taxes. So our government can go out and spend it on military assets. Full circle.


What I see repeatedly by people who like to talk and recite scripture and other religious dogman is a clear double standard and a hypocracy that knows no bounds.

I am becoming more and more aware of your disdain concerning all things religious, yes.


How about this for a change.. how about we stop thinking and labelling people altogether, no more color or gender bias, no more religious differences, no more wealth based discrimination... how about we all just start looking at each other for whom we really are.... the same human race.

Look, it isnt a coincidence the richest continent in context of natural resources presently is and has been the poorest for decades. Our 'movers and shakers' like it that way. Now some people will say they never come up on account of their 'bad workethics', that they are lazy or just not capable. I say poppycock.

It is maintained that way. On the one hand to gain their natural resources [by amongst other tactics, installing puppet governments], on the other hand to have an exhaust of souls, to control global population growth.

We ARE one human race, thats my whole point. Dont make the mistake though, that there isnt an elitist element who is striving for them and theirs, which does not include the rest of us. What Im also saying is that now its the people in, say, Africa that are suffering the most from the consequences of this elitist element, tomorrow it could - and will be - US. And when that happens, we will have no moral ground on which to demand justice, because we ignored the victims we now see as 'them', those in the third world for instance.


You see, what I have learnt is that in our haste to work out what divides us we often find the true culprit within us... so what if people are rich? who gives you or I the right to judge? So corporations are greedy are they?? Bullshit! Corporations can never be greedy, they are infact inanimate... how about the people who run these greedy corporations??? they are greedy themselevs and the cause of all the social issues on this planet do they??

Id like to hear your opinion when you yourself are in a detrimental situation created for you by 'the powers that be' [which the Western citizen will suffer more and more btw], Id like to see if you would still defend those that enrich themselves over the backs of others. Corporate capitalism has been seeded in our culture as normal, as respectable. All in favor of the allmighty economy. Eat or be eaten. You should read Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand, which has become a sort of Bible for the capitalists of today. 'Altruism is a vile, undesirable, non human trait.'

How about the greedy 'investors' who have shares in these greedy corporations, the same investors that demand to see their dividends and the value of their investments grow? the same investors who appoint board members and purchase these investments on the basis of the profits they can promise and then set about demanding these at any cost and in doing so provide the so called industry leaders with a mandate to turn their corporations into the greedy places you talk about?

Yes, Corporate capitalism has been seeded in our culture, normalized. Eat or be eaten. Competition instead of cooperation. Service to self instead of serivce to others. Running the rat race. etc etc. I gave at the office. Not going to repeat myself. Our society is engineered that way Iwanci. Just like, say, female emancipation was invented by a marketing guru to get them to smoke and get them to work, undermining the family unit. You might say thats crazy, I would reply, guess again. This is why I argue a change of mindset is needed, our culture needs to change.

Let's start with some home truths my friend... do you own any investments directly or indirectly through a pension or retirment fund perhaps? Own a house? What do you do if your investment adviser tells you that your investment has not generated any growth in the past 3 years and is unlikely to ever do so? Do you keep your money invested there?

I am saying this because people are guilty of pointing their fingers at 'others' and making up sheer bullshit excuses whilst turning a blind eye on the real culprit, themselves. And where do we see the same hypocracy displayed time and time again?? In religion... blame everything on this 'thing' called the devil.... hypocracy as far as the eye can see and not many people ready to stand up and call out exactly what this is... BULLSHIT!

You keep using thesame simplified arguments, even when we have adressed them several times. Only a marginal aspect of the religious congregations blame everything on 'the devil'. I know its easier for you to think this, but its just not true. We, the masses, are cattle who follow the shepherds. If you think you or people like you have any influence through the usual annals in how your society is run, you have another thing coming. Only slamming on the brakes, only a shock to the system, stopping the system will change anything. History has been altered to engineer our culture, the masses have no part in that, lest their naive / docile state of mind.

Can poverty ever be stopped??? No... but maybe in a perfect world Phaeton, just maybe, people like you and I would be all too willing to give up what we own, our houses, our vehicles, our jobs, our way of life and share our so called 'riches' with those less fortunate.... and here's the other question for you... what will be left to give up when noone owns anything anymore? And, when exactly can we expect the perfect world to commence? I have looked at my history, and in no time period can I see a time where there was total equality between people... actually, when I look at nature I struggle to see total equality in any living thing.

Ofcourse it can. We can do anything if we focus our attention. We wouldnt need to give up anything. There is enough to go around. There just wouldnt be a superrich element. You know, those people like Abrahmovic, who stole from the Russian people and now buys things like footbal clubs because they dont know what to do with such riudiculous sums of cash.

You can quote all the trumpet and/or religious dogma 'thanks for telling us nothing we didn't already know' quotes till the cows come home, and that is all you will ever likely achieve, the disseminator of useless information...but hey, as long as it makes you feel warm inside... afterall jesus did tell his disciples to go forth and spread the word right? Imagine if we all did that. there would be nothing left to talk about.

Are you on your period or something Iwanci? Why all this emotion.. Did I do something wrong?
Want me to match your tone? It will be no trouble at all believe me.


Honestly, sometimes one needs to sit back and look at themselves before casting aspirtions, take responsibility for what YOU do before judging others, and for crying out loud, stop trying to blame everything on 'the devil' or 'the PTB' or 'the greedy corporations' or any other unkown imaginery figment of your imagination... time to WAKE up and take responsibility, MAN (you and I and everyone else on this planet) is the ONLY culprit, we have ourslevs to blame for the shit we contribute to and ourselves to praise for the wonderful things we achieve, but even that is a matter of perspective..don't you think?

For crying out loud, stop regurgitating your simplistic, own- paradigm confirming nonsense about blaming the devil and all that. Ive already wasted too much time responding to your slap of emotional text.


Ok rant over...

Im gonna stop replying to you Iwanci, just so you know. Our discussions are going nowhere, and time is not something I have in abundance.

Be well.

"Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who could not hear the music"
"All our science measured against reality, is primitive and childlike - yet, in contemporary consensus, its the most precious thing we have"


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PostTue Jan 08, 2013 4:41 am » by Iwanci


Phaeton, your very use of the terms 'they' and 'them' is all I need to prove my point my friend.

The world will NEVER know peace nor come close to any form of social equilibrium as long as people keep being segregated by other people, no matter the intent, hypocracy comes in many forms.

Yes you do refer to wealth, 'rich and powerful' are your words not mine, and the inuendos that you put forward cannot be denied nor disputed.

So poverty in your eyes is not being able to eat, that's it? So you see poverty in terms of TV commercials? What about people living in your streets in cardboard boxes? Poor or not?

Your country spends dollars in gaining this so called power so it may prevent people like you potentially becoming 'poor' and not having enough to eat etc etc.. what do you think the your government equates to power? The power that you detest is the very power that grants you your freedoms.

To be clear, it is not 'belief' that I do not like, nor do I hate religious people, but I am frustrated by religious dogman that I find totally self centred and counterproductive.. it is divisive and hypocritical.

Do you work for one of these multinational greedy corporations by chance? Is this how you deal with your emotions, by working or dealing with the same corporations that you hate? Did I mention hypocracy?

You will stop replying to me my friend because that is exactly what religious people do, when they cannot convert they seek shelter and comfort from there own 'like minded' friends and then on to the next person.

I like you Phaeton, and yes I do get emotional, and NO I do not mean to offend you, so I apologise if I have.

Do not stop responding, no matter how difficult I may appear to be, the best rewards are obtained from the most difficulyt challenges, but then again, it is your perogative.

Stay well
Fortes fortuna iuvat

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PostTue Jan 08, 2013 12:11 pm » by mediasorcery


the universe is primarily predatorial in its nature[ so i view it anyways] no one can change that, just change ourselves within it i guess.
the story of life is quicker than the blink of an eye, the story of love is hello and goodbye, until we meet again my friend.

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PostMon Jan 14, 2013 12:27 am » by Iwanci


You guess correctly IMO media... :flop:
Fortes fortuna iuvat


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