A fake plane was added for south tower explosion

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PostFri Jun 14, 2013 12:46 am » by Noentry


Rich316 wrote:I think you may misunderstand him Noentry. What I am open to is this; planes yes hit the towers, but for some reason what was shown on the TV was a green screen graphic insert of the planes. Perhaps to hide what sort of planes they really used, I don't know what the reasons are. But I would suggest going over this full length doco of the whole televised event http://septemberclues.info/ and go from there, rather than labelling other members disinfo agents.. I mean, really, why would a 'dis info agent' even appear here at dtv? And is there any proof that dis info agents even exist?



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look at 7:36 no plane agent provocateurs
I will watch the docu and get back to you Rich316.
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The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority.
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PostFri Jun 14, 2013 12:59 am » by Rich316


And what's the truth and the movement about anyway? Since we don't even know the 'truth' of what really happened, all we're left to do is come up with theories, find anomalies in footage. Is it that different Will to looking for ufos in Nasa photos? We're all looking for the same thing here guys - the truth - it might take many of us off track and down the wrong path (Greer, Wilcock, Sandy hook etc) but sometimes we have to venture down those paths to convince ourselves to keep looking elsewhere. We can't hate other members for thinking differently. It's that different unorthodox thinking that often gets us to the truth.

Check out this image, a little OT but still 911, can you see what's so very wrong with it? The men standing around totally removed from what's going on around them, not even one of them look at the damage or fire. Can you imagine the intensity of the heat alone coming off the fire right behind them? (if you've ever stood outside a house fire you'll know they are WAY too close) Why so removed and uneffected by the heat? Because they're standing in front of a green screen. this is classic green screen right here. Ask anyone in television or broadcasting or post production and they'll tell you the same.

[img][IMG]http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd365/kramer1973_1/911_12.jpg[/img][/img]

Sept clues is good, their forum is also excellent and they delve right into all this.

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PostFri Jun 14, 2013 1:10 am » by *WillEase*


Well thought out response Rich, to which I say fair enough, I retract my previous comment about this
thread and it's author 7forever. It makes no since arguing semantics when in the end we all agree...

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PostFri Jun 14, 2013 1:15 am » by Rich316


All cool Will, no stress, it's not worth it.

Noentry, I see what you mean by ruining the truth movement now. What a clever tactic, join them, believe them, but then go so far with it, everyone else looking in will think you and the whole group are raving mad.

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PostFri Jun 14, 2013 1:21 am » by Noentry


Rich316 wrote:And what's the truth and the movement about anyway? Since we don't even know the 'truth' of what really happened, all we're left to do is come up with theories, find anomalies in footage. Is it that different Will to looking for ufos in Nasa photos? We're all looking for the same thing here guys - the truth - it might take many of us off track and down the wrong path (Greer, Wilcock, Sandy hook etc) but sometimes we have to venture down those paths to convince ourselves to keep looking elsewhere. We can't hate other members for thinking differently. It's that different unorthodox thinking that often gets us to the truth.

Check out this image, a little OT but still 911, can you see what's so very wrong with it? The men standing around totally removed from what's going on around them, not even one of them look at the damage or fire. Can you imagine the intensity of the heat alone coming off the fire right behind them? (if you've ever stood outside a house fire you'll know they are WAY too close) Why so removed and uneffected by the heat? Because they're standing in front of a green screen. this is classic green screen right here. Ask anyone in television or broadcasting or post production and they'll tell you the same.

[img][IMG]http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd365/kramer1973_1/911_12.jpg[/img][/img]

Sept clues is good, their forum is also excellent and they delve right into all this.


Rich316 the truth is we know planes were used to hit the towers.
We know 9 of the 19 Hijakers are still alive.
We know Steal does no melt or soften from an office fire or from jet fuel.
We know no concrete steal building has ever fallen from a fire or an airplane hit in the history of mankind.
We know the government are notorious for lying to manipulate the public.
We know the government hires people to manipulate the truth.
We know the official story is a lie.
We know the media is used to manipulate events and the truth.
We know 2 weeks before the towers went down the owner took out an insurance policy for the very event we are talking about.
We know that this no planes theory being pushed on this forum is bullshit.
We know many more things that I have not mentioned!

I dont hate 7forever, but I will not let this post make this forum a joke.
I do know the majority of 7forevers post are to do with JFK or this no planes theory.

What member comes on here bumps up the two of the dumbest and craziest conspiracies constantly?
The no planes theory and the Jakie killed Kennedy post are pure disinfo.
There is zero proof for either of these.
Every other member finds them a joke.
I have once posted on this post before and have not harassed or insulted 7forever once.

His post make this forum look like we are a bunch of delusional nutters and I wont stand for this no more.
We are all entitled to an opinion or to think how we wont, this is not the issue.

The issue is why keep bumping up the same info again and again and again?

What would you say is the purpose to this type of posting Rich316?


Rich316 wrote:All cool Will, no stress, it's not worth it.

Noentry, I see what you mean by ruining the truth movement now. What a clever tactic, join them, believe them, but then go so far with it, everyone else looking in will think you and the whole group are raving mad.



Edit..... Rich316.
My point exactly :flop:
"The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority.
The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority.
The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking."
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PostFri Jun 14, 2013 3:22 am » by Noentry


Rich316 I just watched Spetemberclues and it is a pile of horse shit.


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"The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority.
The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority.
The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking."
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PostFri Jun 14, 2013 3:30 am » by Noentry


Much has been made of the September Clues series (henceforth referred to as September Clueless, for good reason) by the re-invented No Planery splinter fringe group claiming it as a prime demonstrator of their new meme of 'Media Fakery'.

The elements concentrated on here are to clarify two major and contentious points.

Where ‘the missing backdrop’ of NYC went
and:
why the shots of the WTC2 second strike show a plane in one view but not the other.

Image

The 'Media Fakery’ case is that the two camera views shown above are ‘virtually identical’, with the plane ‘inserted’ and the background 'removed' in the right hand frame.

However, closer examination reveals that the shots are far from identical.

The very low resolution (VHS tape copy?) Chopper 4 shots used in the comparisons made by September Clueless are taken from a minimum altitude of approx 1400 ft, (1500 ft if the chopper pilot was staying within NYC overflight regulations) as can be seen by the camera looking slightly down onto the 1362 ft high roof of the North Tower with its TV mast, and overlooking the WTC to view the Upper New York Bay area to the south west of Manhattan.

The only known practical way to look over something is to be viewing from a yet higher altitude.

Image

The WNBC shot by contrast, is taken from the roof of the Rockefeller Centre - 850 ft high max. and home of WNBC studios - and is obviously from a lower elevation looking slightly above the horizontal plane at the damaged area 1200 ft up the North Tower.

Image

Compare with this postcard and extract from the same known location showing the Empire State Building in the foreground and the twin Towers in happier days.

Note the green lines marking the relative positions of the roof levels which will be indicated again later.

As with the zoomed-in shot of WNBC’s 911 view, it can be noted that the city backdrop has also disappeared in the close-up.

Image

As the red outlined area in the next photo, taken with a wider angle clearly shows, there is no ‘missing background’ – only sky could be the visible background in the well known zoomed-in horizontal shot of the plane's approach.

Image

In conclusion, there is no case let alone evidence for 'Media Fakery' editing out the background.
WNBC’s camera angle and its content are perfectly logical and consistent.

Note that in the night time postcard shots above, a very slight gap is visible between the buildings, indicating that we are seeing the north faces (which are actually oriented north east) almost perfectly head on to within less than 2 degrees as in the WNBC 911 shots. Note also the red and yellow lines indicating the same spatial relationship of the Towers' roof lines.

Image

The Chopper 4 shot is oriented differently, from both an altitude of approx plus 500 ft higher and also further to the east (by approx. 6 degrees relative to the Towers), as a comparative measurement of the visible sides of the Towers show.

Image

As it is morning, the brightly lit faces of the Towers are to the east. In the Chopper 4 shot we can see 12 pixels of the East face, as compared to 2 pixels in the WNBC shot.
The angles of view are thus shown to be completely different in all three dimensions.

Image

As the follow-on lo-resolution monochrome section from Chopper 4 that September Clueless 3 also shows, the plane’s approach from the south west can (just) be detected 10 seconds prior to impact due to the increased contrast in the black and white image.

Being small and round – like a ball – when viewed from head on (a B767 has a fuselage diameter of 15.5 ft) and seen from an initial distance 1.4 miles (calculated from the speed) travelling at approx 500 mph, it’s difficult to see the airliner against the dark land background and it gets completely lost over water before disappearing behind the Towers just after it passes Ellis Island, wholly due to the lo-resolution image source used.

The NBC shot on the other hand, being further west and from a lower altitude and with a lightened background provided by the sky, is able to capture the last seconds of the planes approach prior to impact from much closer in.

Illogically, September Clueless then superimposes the plane’s flight path from the hi-level Chopper 4 shot onto the WNBC lo-level shot, and then blithely advises that as two views of the Towers are ‘identical twins’ the difference in perceived flight paths proving some hypothetical missile actually hit the South Tower and the airliner image was ‘inserted’ by ‘Media Fakery’ afterwards.

Image

Compounding its grossly misleading case, September Clueless then shows a much higher definition version of the Chopper 4 video from the WNBC archive (note the greater level of detail now visible on the North Tower TV mast) which does - would you believe it - in fact show the approaching plane, if blurred and in a not very photogenic fashion.

We are gravely advised - because Simon 'socialservice' Shack says so - that the ‘pencilled in ball’ we now see is an 'obvious fake' added afterwards.

Image

Back in reality, the approach closely matches the official flight path as plotted by NIST in the diagram below, with the final curve at landfall as it crosses South Cove obscured by the Towers.

Image

There is some mystery as to why Shack has used the lo-definition version of Chopper 4’s shots in his comparisons; whether it was used to mimic the image quality seen by the average TV viewer or to increase the brightness flaring of the sunlit faces of the Towers to make them seem more similar or to be otherwise deliberately obtuse and/or deceptive is unclear.

It may be that Simon Shack/Social Service is indeed the ‘Father Dougal’ of film making and really hasn’t got a clue about perspective, or it may be he is maliciously misleading those who have little in the way of functioning critical faculties and a tendency to believe whatever they see challenging ‘da official story’ as being gospel.

The subject of 911 – what happened and how it happened - is so serious and goes to the very top and heart of the world’s current power structure that I find I’m unable to easily accept the ‘idiot amateur’ explanation, particularly in view of the manner in which the absolute undiluted bullsh!t September Clueless unquestionably is, has been enthusiastically promoted from some quarters.

Make no mistake, No Plane Theory with its equally feeble minded cousins ‘Media Fakery’ and ‘Exotic Weapons’ are at the centre of the divisions tearing away at what can be termed ‘the 911 truth movement’ (no capitals). Every single 911 group from the Scholars on down to the various websites have seen nothing but division as a result of NPT and its offshoots.

And the biggest joke is that NPT adds nothing but a further layer of incredulity – yet claiming to be the very core! - whilst pretending it is presenting ‘conclusive evidence’.

To answer Simon Shack’s embedded question, yes by now I do feel my intelligence is being insulted.
And the insulting is being done by your pernicious, false and bogus little internet ‘films’.

http://www.911forum.org.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=11608
:look:
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The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority.
The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking."
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PostFri Jun 14, 2013 3:52 am » by Noentry


Debunking "September Clues" and "No Plane" Theories


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"The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority.
The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority.
The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking."
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PostFri Jun 14, 2013 8:20 am » by Rich316


There are videos supposedly debunking almost every conspiracy worldwide. You're always going to find someone out there with some argument against whatever theory may be presented. Moon landings, ufos etc.

I for one have seen the video above and found that to be complete vomit, he doesn't debunk any of it, Jason Bermas is a meth head with a big mouth.... so they say! I've read all those debunking theories and websites and you know what? Some things can be debunked but let's not assume because one aspect is wrong that the entire premise is also wrong.

Perhaps this thread should have been titled 'possible and probable tampering of live feed on 911' then it might have gone over a bit better.

I also mentioned their forum is a good look also, not just the video.

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PostFri Jun 14, 2013 1:40 pm » by Noentry


Rich316 wrote:There are videos supposedly debunking almost every conspiracy worldwide. You're always going to find someone out there with some argument against whatever theory may be presented. Moon landings, ufos etc.

I for one have seen the video above and found that to be complete vomit, he doesn't debunk any of it, Jason Bermas is a meth head with a big mouth.... so they say! I've read all those debunking theories and websites and you know what? Some things can be debunked but let's not assume because one aspect is wrong that the entire premise is also wrong.

Perhaps this thread should have been titled 'possible and probable tampering of live feed on 911' then it might have gone over a bit better.

I also mentioned their forum is a good look also, not just the video.


I respect your opinion Rich316. You are not in question here you always seem level headed to me.
I still say any docu that says the no plane theory is real is a load of horse shit.
But you know this already. Could the media manipulate their footage, no doubt.
Did airplanes hit the the towers 100% yes.
:flop:
"The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority.
The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority.
The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking."
A. A. Milne


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