A question for the Atheist

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PostThu Apr 07, 2011 3:31 am » by Ademu


megame23 wrote:Spock you really dont think Adam was a man? then why are we told Jesus descended from him in his Genealogy? why is the Genealogy even in the text, just to fuck with people?


Like 3 38

38the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.




And why peoples on earth be traced back to one man and one woman?


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The closest we have come to tracing ourselves back to a single man or woman is the "Mitochondrial Eve" theory, Try again.....

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PostThu Apr 07, 2011 3:31 am » by Kurious


The logic of the creationist is redundant.

For one simple reason & it is a reason they themselves set up which is if there were a creator as they claim there is, who created that creator ? What came before him ?

The argument that there is a creator implies that everything comes from a point zero if you will, so if God is the be all & end all (by the creationists train of thought he is) there would have to be a never ending chain of creators which just doesn't hold up with rational thinking in fact its a ridiculous notion & why I for one am quite happy to be atheist & choose to believe in science over a book full of wildly unprovable claims.
SHUT UP YOU FUCKING CONSPIRACY BASED LUNATIC

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PostThu Apr 07, 2011 3:33 am » by Spock


Enjoyed the discussion. Especially Daemonfoe. I'm tired and when I post tired, i hate it when I wake up in the morning. But it was truly awesome to be able to disagree and prove points in this manner, and tomorrow - same bat time, same bat channel - we'll do it again.

Sleep well.

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PostThu Apr 07, 2011 3:34 am » by Kaarmaa


spock wrote:And all this happens by chance, nothing like a preconceived program?

What would mass instinctions, due to earthquakes or volcanic eruptions for exemple, be?
A holy system reboot?
I feel that there are to many malfunctions here in this world to be able to believe that some god preconcieved it. And even if he did, shouldn't he, from time to time, take a look on his work and try to fix things? That's what I would do if I was almighty. It would piss me off that my biggest creation's full of shi...bugs!
No wonder that some people use Microsoft ("just trust them, they know what they do, they're the leaders") and others Linux (do it yourself and enjoy).
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PostThu Apr 07, 2011 3:35 am » by Daemonfoe


ademu wrote:
daemonfoe wrote:
spock wrote:Even if everything that happens in existence is nothing more than the mechanics of a spiral, how is that possible?


An example of this is fractals, and in fact, using the Mandelbrot equation, you can actually find images of anything and everything if you look at the right spots. As a matter of fact, using fractals is the best image compression possible because the entire image can be stored as a single coordinate. Load this coordinate into the Mandelbrot set and bam, you have the image that you compressed.


ahhhh good old M-sets, which I have also heard referred to as the "Thumbprint of God" and they just may be the best argument for a god. Once you learn about them you can't help but see them in everything and i do mean absolutely everything.

But in the end I can only be sure of one thing, THAT I JUST DON'T KNOW EITHER WAY


To me it's more of an example of how with a small mathematical equation everything is possible.
The two choices we have are something starting from nothing, or something existing infinitely. These are both paradoxes. The existence of everything is therefore a paradox. -daemonfoe

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PostThu Apr 07, 2011 3:40 am » by Constabul


megame23 wrote:
And why peoples on earth be traced back to one man and one woman?


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if you paid attention to the video < no ill will ment mega > it mentions there being more then just one man, they are claiming that a genetic sequence can be traced to that one man, who was among others. In as much is the same with the female, but also being other females.
This is far from "proof" of the adam and eve story line of the bible. Many genetic similarities can be found in other animals, and plants in relation to humans.
This is getting into another realm of speculation, and unfinished data to lead one to a conclusion. This also promotes the "out of Africa" model, being the data they presented.

There are other discoveries of Humans in other places in the world pre dating this data.
Is the data they are presenting conclusive finalized research. I seriously doubt it, be as I am not a geneticist, i could not argue it really to any firm degree. I do know, that this theory has holes in it, as archeological evidence contradicts it.

it is indeed a interesting subject to research, but it being presented by national geographic, I am skeptical.
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PostThu Apr 07, 2011 3:43 am » by Spock


kurious wrote:The logic of the creationist is redundant.

For one simple reason & it is a reason they themselves set up which is if there were a creator as they claim there is, who created that creator ? What came before him ?

The argument that there is a creator implies that everything comes from a point zero if you will, so if God is the be all & end all (by the creationists train of thought he is) there would have to be a never ending chain of creators which just doesn't hold up with rational thinking in fact its a ridiculous notion & why I for one am quite happy to be atheist & choose to believe in science over a book full of wildly unprovable claims.


Oh damn - I just saw this.

Not that what I am going to type is going to change anything. But in a nutshell, yes it is unprovable (at least by our current understanding and grade of science). No question.

My quick answer would be, God lives outside space and time, and we can't understand that. That somehow, He is space and time with a conscience and the ability to show a personal side. The thing is, we have to look first and seek Him out.

But I realize that is faith based and won't make any sense to anyone that hasn't come to a point in their life when all they had left, was to lay what they had in God's hands.

Even Jesus' mission was to go to the broken. I think that is God's too. To wait on us, to allow Him.

Kurious - and interesting read would be how creation came into existence in the Urantia Book. I'm not saying that is truth, just saying it is an interesting take on how infinity past (HE) and infinity beyond (HER) collided to make creation.

Again - it's holding out on something not tangible, yet, reliable on a personal level.

Up to each to come to terms with on their own.

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PostThu Apr 07, 2011 3:46 am » by Daemonfoe


megame23 wrote:


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You've got to be kidding me. How exactly did they trace this all the way back to one man and woman in Africa? Explain to me how they got a hold of DNA from this couple...

FYI: Man's DNA is 95-98% identical to a chimp.

Are we going to continue to jump to conclusions here?
The two choices we have are something starting from nothing, or something existing infinitely. These are both paradoxes. The existence of everything is therefore a paradox. -daemonfoe

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PostThu Apr 07, 2011 3:59 am » by Daemonfoe


spock wrote:But I realize that is faith based and won't make any sense to anyone that hasn't come to a point in their life when all they had left, was to lay what they had in God's hands.


Tyler Durden: "It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything."

I can imagine the psychological process is much the same as the quote describes.

A person reaches a point in their life where they are at wits end, they possibly have lost all their friends, job, money, home, family, everything important to them. At this point they have no choice but to give up, to say, "fuck it". Whatever comes along comes along, there's no need to worry about anything anymore because there's nothing to lose. Once this point has been reached only good things can happen because relatively from the mental position they are in, the worst things that can happen have already happened to them.

Don't forget to remember, that this is a very traumatic event.

During trauma our brains can do several things some of which include compartmentalization, or a photographic memory of the event.

If for example, during this moment, you say to yourself, "God please help me.", you will forever remember that in full clarity. Regardless whether there is a God or not, when your life finally turns for the better, you will attribute the change to God.
The two choices we have are something starting from nothing, or something existing infinitely. These are both paradoxes. The existence of everything is therefore a paradox. -daemonfoe

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PostThu Apr 07, 2011 4:04 am » by Constabul


daemonfoe wrote:
spock wrote:But I realize that is faith based and won't make any sense to anyone that hasn't come to a point in their life when all they had left, was to lay what they had in God's hands.


Tyler Durden: "It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything."

I can imagine the psychological process is much the same as the quote describes.

A person reaches a point in their life where they are at wits end, they possibly have lost all their friends, job, money, home, family, everything important to them. At this point they have no choice but to give up, to say, "fuck it". Whatever comes along comes along, there's no need to worry about anything anymore because there's nothing to lose. Once this point has been reached only good things can happen because relatively from the mental position they are in, the worst things that can happen have already happened to them.

Don't forget to remember, that this is a very traumatic event.

During trauma our brains can do several things some of which include compartmentalization, or a photographic memory of the event.

If for example, during this moment, you say to yourself, "God please help me.", you will forever remember that in full clarity. Regardless whether there is a God or not, when your life finally turns for the better, you will attribute the change to God.



:clapper: Fight Club quote.
you won Cool points on that one.. lol
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