A question for the Atheist

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PostThu Apr 07, 2011 4:40 am » by Truthdefender


daemonfoe wrote:
truthdefender wrote:most would rather be offended that the question was asked rather than ponder the question. Though they love to deny it by claiming they are agnostic, those who do not believe in God are just as militant in their beliefs as any one holding to a religion. Maybe more so, because they believe they have transcended their backward religious brothers and have excelled to the next level of 'evolution'! :D


Yes I am offended that the question was asked. It is a completely imbecilic question, and the fact that anyone could actually ask the question and actually be serious, deeply offends me.

Yes I am militant in my beliefs. I am agnostic, so that means I don't believe much, but the things that I do believe I am damn sure of. One thing I am damn sure of is that believing that there IS or ISN'T a God is a decision of mental laziness. Nothing offends me more than mentally lazy people.

So yes. This whole post pisses me off. A lazy question posed by a lazy thinker toward other lazy thinkers.

And yes. I don't believe in a God, but since I'm Agnostic, not Atheist, I also don't believe there isn't a god. And yes I do believe I have transcended my backward religious brothers, and my less, but still backward Atheist brothers.

The whole question of symbiotic relationships is moot. EVERYTHING EXISTS SYMBIOTICALLY WITH EVERYTHING ELSE. It's not just fucking bees and flowers. EVERYTHING NEEDS EVERYTHING ELSE TO EXIST.

FYI, flowers don't require bees to pollinate each other. Bees require pollen to make honey. This whole question is fucking retarded.

Just to let you know how I really feel.


I find your pint of view and attitude unfortunate and sad. Even your snobbish opinion of atheists shows an elitist 'holier than thou' attitude (thought that was reserved for us).
\
ag·nos·tic/agˈnästik/
Noun: A person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.


I think the truth is that they don't care, nor have they really evaluated or applied their limited understanding to the matter. Which puts the atheist on much higher ground in my limited opinion. At least the atheist has hopefully pondered the evidence and found it wanting in his/her eyes. If the agnostic cannot even develop a strong opinion on such an important tpic asthe existence of God, and then responds in such an angry lashing out way,why trust or consider their strong opinions on any subject? You pretty much said you don't even care to think on whether or not there is a God, why do you care what others think? I find you in alot of spiritual/God threads, what satisfaction does this bring you? In this age, true faith which drives is far more admirable than the skepticism of the masses. Good luck on your journey. And God bless./

P.S. As to your comment on mental laziness, those with true faith in our propagandized culture, have chosen their path most likely after much study. Laziness is accepting te current cultural bias in such a devout way as you have demonstrated in this thread. Learn, and LIVE


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PostThu Apr 07, 2011 5:06 am » by Ademu


truthdefender wrote:
daemonfoe wrote:
truthdefender wrote:most would rather be offended that the question was asked rather than ponder the question. Though they love to deny it by claiming they are agnostic, those who do not believe in God are just as militant in their beliefs as any one holding to a religion. Maybe more so, because they believe they have transcended their backward religious brothers and have excelled to the next level of 'evolution'! :D


Yes I am offended that the question was asked. It is a completely imbecilic question, and the fact that anyone could actually ask the question and actually be serious, deeply offends me.

Yes I am militant in my beliefs. I am agnostic, so that means I don't believe much, but the things that I do believe I am damn sure of. One thing I am damn sure of is that believing that there IS or ISN'T a God is a decision of mental laziness. Nothing offends me more than mentally lazy people.

So yes. This whole post pisses me off. A lazy question posed by a lazy thinker toward other lazy thinkers.

And yes. I don't believe in a God, but since I'm Agnostic, not Atheist, I also don't believe there isn't a god. And yes I do believe I have transcended my backward religious brothers, and my less, but still backward Atheist brothers.

The whole question of symbiotic relationships is moot. EVERYTHING EXISTS SYMBIOTICALLY WITH EVERYTHING ELSE. It's not just fucking bees and flowers. EVERYTHING NEEDS EVERYTHING ELSE TO EXIST.

FYI, flowers don't require bees to pollinate each other. Bees require pollen to make honey. This whole question is fucking retarded.

Just to let you know how I really feel.


I find your pint of view and attitude unfortunate and sad. Even your snobbish opinion of atheists shows an elitist 'holier than thou' attitude (thought that was reserved for us).
\
ag·nos·tic/agˈnästik/
Noun: A person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.


I think the truth is that they don't care, nor have they really evaluated or applied their limited understanding to the matter. Which puts the atheist on much higher ground in my limited opinion. At least the atheist has hopefully pondered the evidence and found it wanting in his/her eyes. If the agnostic cannot even develop a strong opinion on such an important tpic asthe existence of God, and then responds in such an angry lashing out way,why trust or consider their strong opinions on any subject? You pretty much said you don't even care to think on whether or not there is a God, why do you care what others think? I find you in alot of spiritual/God threads, what satisfaction does this bring you? In this age, true faith which drives is far more admirable than the skepticism of the masses. Good luck on your journey. And God bless./

P.S. As to your comment on mental laziness, those with true faith in our propagandized culture, have chosen their path most likely after much study. Laziness is accepting te current cultural bias in such a devout way as you have demonstrated in this thread. Learn, and LIVE



The mental laziness comes into play when you ignore the fact that nothing (at least nothing known at this time) can officially rebuke the claim there is a god, which also works the other way. A logical fact based conclusion can really only lead one to admit that they can't be certain one way or the other, hence being agnostic (and no faith does not count as a fact).

Personally I don't begrudge anyone for their belief regardless of what side of the scale they fall on, I just have a problem when someone starts screaming about certainty and condemning the other side.

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PostThu Apr 07, 2011 5:20 am » by Constabul


truthdefender wrote:
daemonfoe wrote:
truthdefender wrote:most would rather be offended that the question was asked rather than ponder the question. Though they love to deny it by claiming they are agnostic, those who do not believe in God are just as militant in their beliefs as any one holding to a religion. Maybe more so, because they believe they have transcended their backward religious brothers and have excelled to the next level of 'evolution'! :D


Yes I am offended that the question was asked. It is a completely imbecilic question, and the fact that anyone could actually ask the question and actually be serious, deeply offends me.

Yes I am militant in my beliefs. I am agnostic, so that means I don't believe much, but the things that I do believe I am damn sure of. One thing I am damn sure of is that believing that there IS or ISN'T a God is a decision of mental laziness. Nothing offends me more than mentally lazy people.

So yes. This whole post pisses me off. A lazy question posed by a lazy thinker toward other lazy thinkers.

And yes. I don't believe in a God, but since I'm Agnostic, not Atheist, I also don't believe there isn't a god. And yes I do believe I have transcended my backward religious brothers, and my less, but still backward Atheist brothers.

The whole question of symbiotic relationships is moot. EVERYTHING EXISTS SYMBIOTICALLY WITH EVERYTHING ELSE. It's not just fucking bees and flowers. EVERYTHING NEEDS EVERYTHING ELSE TO EXIST.

FYI, flowers don't require bees to pollinate each other. Bees require pollen to make honey. This whole question is fucking retarded.

Just to let you know how I really feel.


I find your pint of view and attitude unfortunate and sad. Even your snobbish opinion of atheists shows an elitist 'holier than thou' attitude (thought that was reserved for us).
\
ag·nos·tic/agˈnästik/
Noun: A person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.


I think the truth is that they don't care, nor have they really evaluated or applied their limited understanding to the matter. Which puts the atheist on much higher ground in my limited opinion. At least the atheist has hopefully pondered the evidence and found it wanting in his/her eyes. If the agnostic cannot even develop a strong opinion on such an important tpic asthe existence of God, and then responds in such an angry lashing out way,why trust or consider their strong opinions on any subject? You pretty much said you don't even care to think on whether or not there is a God, why do you care what others think? I find you in alot of spiritual/God threads, what satisfaction does this bring you? In this age, true faith which drives is far more admirable than the skepticism of the masses. Good luck on your journey. And God bless./

P.S. As to your comment on mental laziness, those with true faith in our propagandized culture, have chosen their path most likely after much study. Laziness is accepting te current cultural bias in such a devout way as you have demonstrated in this thread. Learn, and LIVE


Your argument seems based in the belief of a westernized "God" figure, and i seriously doubt you have researched other beliefs to come to the conclusion you have, such as Taoism, Sikhism , Hinduism, Shinto or many other forms. < i could be wrong, but you were likely raised and taught you bases of the beliefs you have >
You seem to like to denigrate agnostics, who by their own admission, know there is knowledge that is beyond them.
You on the other hand present from a ego driven belief. That is traceable to it's origins in history < like any other religion > .
Even claiming, atheism as a "belief" based in faith, < of there being nothing > Many atheist, do not give such pondering any merit < I.E no process, religions have process > , and do not indulge in such. Where as some do indeed research and search.

You only have a document to point to as the source of your knowledge, and faith, that occurrences in your life, and others like you, venerate your "belief".

Where as.. I could present a position from which, many experiemnts are conducted, time and time again, to give glimses of what the nature of reality really is. Quantum Phyisics. Alternate universes, parallel realities, etc. Which all have some form of testable data that has lead to the theories, and mathematical expressions of such.
Such as in the video i posted earlier.

Without going into pages worth of material. Your position can not be said as such.

In short, you, with your belief system, have constructed a box around yourself, a shell. That given the chance you may indeed have a glimpse of what reality is, instead of experiencing it to the fullest, you have preconceptions that will dilute the moment, and corrupt the experience, because of those preconceptions.
Much is the same for the person who positions them self from a stance of nothingness, atheism. They too have constructed a box, in which their perception of reality is skewed.

I do not claim i have some grand baring on philosophy, But i do leave myself open to experiences, not giving them a label before they happen.

As i mentioned to eli, we are all learning, and will never know the full story, and any claiming as such is full of shit.

Do agnostics commit their selves, more or less then religious cultists, or atheist?
I think that comes down to the individual, and your labeling as such is a display of ignorance <lack of knowledge, not an insult > .
I indeed do have respect to the religious sort, who can rationalize modern discoveries with their archaic belief structure and keep on trucking, like i can respect the atheist, who point out reality really well. Any of each has the mind numb robots who do not look beyond their own nose... Agnostics , indeed fall into this category.
Why not learn, when in an age of information, knowledge is available to many..
anyway, i'm starting to ramble. take from it what you will
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PostThu Apr 07, 2011 5:22 am » by Kurious


spock wrote:
kurious wrote:The logic of the creationist is redundant.

For one simple reason & it is a reason they themselves set up which is if there were a creator as they claim there is, who created that creator ? What came before him ?

The argument that there is a creator implies that everything comes from a point zero if you will, so if God is the be all & end all (by the creationists train of thought he is) there would have to be a never ending chain of creators which just doesn't hold up with rational thinking in fact its a ridiculous notion & why I for one am quite happy to be atheist & choose to believe in science over a book full of wildly unprovable claims.


Oh damn - I just saw this.

Not that what I am going to type is going to change anything. But in a nutshell, yes it is unprovable (at least by our current understanding and grade of science). No question.

My quick answer would be, God lives outside space and time, and we can't understand that. That somehow, He is space and time with a conscience and the ability to show a personal side. The thing is, we have to look first and seek Him out.

But I realize that is faith based and won't make any sense to anyone that hasn't come to a point in their life when all they had left, was to lay what they had in God's hands.

Even Jesus' mission was to go to the broken. I think that is God's too. To wait on us, to allow Him.

Kurious - and interesting read would be how creation came into existence in the Urantia Book. I'm not saying that is truth, just saying it is an interesting take on how infinity past (HE) and infinity beyond (HER) collided to make creation.

Again - it's holding out on something not tangible, yet, reliable on a personal level.

Up to each to come to terms with on their own.


Spock my good man I'm afraid I wont be reading any scripture or bible passages especially those that try to offer a exploitation about our universe. Science has & continues to do a more than adequate job of explaining the world around me. I respect your beliefs sir I really do but I'm afraid that even glancing a bible these days for me is enough to make me depressed.

I have zero problem with people being spiritual I really do it's just that I'm done with dealing with such a antiquated way of thinking such as religion which has never as far as I can tell come remotely close to the facts in any of its explanations on how we came to be or how our universe works.

The whole creationist/intelligent design movement isn't my sworn enemy but they are on my radar so to speak.
SHUT UP YOU FUCKING CONSPIRACY BASED LUNATIC

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PostThu Apr 07, 2011 5:31 am » by Truthdefender


Constabul my man, not sure if you read through all the posts, but.... my comments to daemon were only in response to his comments to me. He thought a mere comment about agnosticism required him to defend his beliefs and attack anyone who thinks different.

As to you, I was not raised in a church, I became a Christian a little over a year ago, whilst studying the flaws in atheism, evolutionary theory, the molecular constructs in the human body, the obvious spiritual nature of the ufo phenomena, and other such esoteric events going on in our current world. I read the Bible later. I knocked and the door was opened. I know I have limited understanding, but some things can be known by those who seek. Nice to see you again by the way!


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PostThu Apr 07, 2011 5:55 am » by Constabul


truthdefender wrote:Constabul my man, not sure if you read through all the posts, but.... my comments to daemon were only in response to his comments to me. He thought a mere comment about agnosticism required him to defend his beliefs and attack anyone who thinks different.

As to you, I was not raised in a church, I became a Christian a little over a year ago, whilst studying the flaws in atheism, evolutionary theory, the molecular constructs in the human body, the obvious spiritual nature of the ufo phenomena, and other such esoteric events going on in our current world. I read the Bible later. I knocked and the door was opened. I know I have limited understanding, but some things can be known by those who seek. Nice to see you again by the way!


cool beans, best of luck on your journey.
I was only commenting to the over generalization of agnostics, primarily, the rest, well, just comes with the flow, and indeed have been following the overall evolution of the conversation of the thread.
It indeed seems interesting how you came to be "christian". < small level of curiosity there, But really is not the overall focus. >
I indeed have seen the material that has been used by biologist, to imply intelligent design< assuming that i've seen what you may indeed imply, could be wrong> .
But do not see that as conclusive evidence, to point out the presence of a divine creator I.E a christian god, It could imply hindu gods, or Norse gods as the creator,. it could also imply, genetic engineering, which could be done, by beings, of a less than divine nature.

The accomplishments of ourselves, could result in such, and i could purpose a paradox of, we humans, being our own "god" figures of antiquity. Pointing to cave paintings of beings who seem to look like astronauts. In that we time traveled in the future to prehistoric times and influences our own rise in civilization, even to the point of genetic engineering Hominids to produce the modern human.
I could use material present in history, and purposed by others such as zecharia sitchin, and the afore mentioned cave paints, and anomalies in history. IS it real, who can say,
Can you disprove it? Does it sound Absurd? Is it any more or less absurd then a Christian God? or Jesus?

Anyway man, just commenting. and getting ready to crash.

:cheers:
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PostThu Apr 07, 2011 6:18 am » by Daemonfoe


truthdefender wrote:I find your pint of view and attitude unfortunate and sad.

Sounds like a personal problem bro. It really does.

truthdefender wrote:Even your snobbish opinion of atheists shows an elitist 'holier than thou' attitude (thought that was reserved for us).

Yes. I clearly stated that I am better than people who choose to believe things w/o facts.

truthdefender wrote:ag·nos·tic/agˈnästik/
Noun: A person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.

Correct.

truthdefender wrote:I think the truth is that they don't care

False. If I didn't care then I would just sidestep the whole thing and call myself an Atheist.

truthdefender wrote:, nor have they really evaluated or applied their limited understanding to the matter.

Absolute speculation. This is an extremely arrogant statement from you.

truthdefender wrote:Which puts the atheist on much higher ground in my limited opinion. At least the atheist has hopefully pondered the evidence and found it wanting in his/her eyes.

This particular opinion of yours is highly based off assumptions. You're saying hopefully the atheist has looked harder than me, and since you hope he has looked harder, he sits on higher ground than me. This is a perfect example of conclusions based on wanting something to be true, instead of actually finding out if it's true.

truthdefender wrote:If the agnostic cannot even develop a strong opinion on such an important tpic asthe existence of God,

First of all. The topic of the existence of God is not important. Second. I do have a strong opinion. My opinion is that none of us has a fucking clue whether he exists or not, and those of us that think we do have a clue are living a delusion. The real important topic is whether we should believe things w/o finding out facts first.

truthdefender wrote:and then responds in such an angry lashing out way

The thing that I am angry about is that so many people fall from their every day responsibilities, they support religious war, they support religious politics, and most importantly, they don't really care if something is real to believe in it. They believe simply because they want to. And the same goes for atheists.

I am angry because people like YOU, insist that I must choose to believe that God is or isn't. Who are you to say that examining all the facts and looking for REAL evidence one way or the other is the wrong thing to do?

truthdefender wrote:,why trust or consider their strong opinions on any subject?

Would you trust or consider weak opinions?

truthdefender wrote:You pretty much said you don't even care to think on whether or not there is a God

False. That's what you said that I said. I never said that. Obviously I do care because I am involved in this thread.

truthdefender wrote:, why do you care what others think? I find you in alot of spiritual/God threads, what satisfaction does this bring you?

I do my part to wake people up to the fact that belief in something that can't be proven is harmful to us all.

truthdefender wrote:In this age, true faith which drives is far more admirable than the skepticism of the masses. Good luck on your journey. And God bless.

Admirable to who? People who need to feel that they themselves are admirable, because they have doubt in their heart that it is true? Searching for TRUTH, truthdefender is what is actually admirable. I find it ironic that your name is truthdefender. Maybe you should rename your account to faithdefender...

truthdefender wrote:P.S. As to your comment on mental laziness, those with true faith in our propagandized culture, have chosen their path most likely after much study. Laziness is accepting te current cultural bias in such a devout way as you have demonstrated in this thread. Learn, and LIVE

If they aren't mentally lazy, demonstrate to me what evidence they have come across that proved to them that their belief or disbelief coincides with actual truth. What made them finish studying and come to their "conclusion"? Was it actual factual evidence, or was it just ... MENTAL LAZYNESS?
The two choices we have are something starting from nothing, or something existing infinitely. These are both paradoxes. The existence of everything is therefore a paradox. -daemonfoe

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PostThu Apr 07, 2011 7:17 am » by Ademu


daemonfoe wrote:
I find it ironic that your name is truthdefender. Maybe you should rename your account to faithdefender...




Damn........................... :clapper: :clapper: :clapper: :clapper: :alien51:

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PostThu Apr 07, 2011 10:29 am » by Iwanci


Is this the dumbest thread of all time?

I am not an atheist, I dont believe in GOD as the main stream religions want us to, I do believe in higher intelligence here on erth and further into space.

The truth about all this conjecture and rubbish that gets touted by religions and indeed by all and sundry is this....

WE DO NOT KNOW!!!!!

We do not know and that is why we keep debating these ideas and that is why we keep questioning and that is why we keep hoping and that is why we keep sanity.

The bigger question to answer is.... what would we do if we knew? would it change anything?

and...


NO! I dont believe that a GOD as such created the universe or anything in it, I do believe that in comparison to us mere earthlings we could well view any more advanced civilisation as gods... but that again would be based on our earthly interpretation based on our earthly limitations..
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PostThu Apr 07, 2011 9:26 pm » by Truthdefender


ademu wrote:
daemonfoe wrote:
I find it ironic that your name is truthdefender. Maybe you should rename your account to faithdefender...




Damn........................... :clapper: :clapper: :clapper: :clapper: :alien51:


Daemon, I will use your fans post to answer some of your comments. First, if their is no God, nothing matters, as it is just one man's opinion of what is right in his eyes vs., the same from another man. And if your position would then be that the majority rules, well the majority on this planet still believes that their is a supreme being, so you my friend are ruled out. And if there is a God, nothing else matters, which speaks for itself. That covers agnosticism.

2nd, If lashing out at people is how you expect to wake them up from their delusion, PM in 10 years and let me no how that's going. People with anger like yours saturating the world is what is harmful to us all.

3rd, thanks for taking all that time to respond to me using quotes one at a time. I haven't figured out how to do that yet :cheers:

Lastly, Jesus IS the Truth, and since their is constant attacks on Him and Christianity from the current deluded generation, I thought it was fitting. But you can call me faithdefender, or douchebag, or not at all, I just don't care. But I will always be lurking to correct erroneous info, and defend the Truth, and maybe, God willing move someone's heart to seek. In your responses to me you wrote repeatedly about evidence and facts etc..., the greatest proof is the one which takes place inside a person's heart and mind when they pursue Him in all sincerity. :cheers:


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