A Walk down Zimmerman Lane

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PostSun Jul 21, 2013 8:30 pm » by Noentry


handy4321 wrote:Are you saying that it is impossible to take a life with bare hands?
Nope. Never said that.
Are you saying that it is impossible for a six foot "child" inflict harm or even fatal damage on another? What world do you live in? Has this never happened in the world in which you live? In my world, even young children have killed.
A child being followed kills stalker I say the kid got away lucky
I do not like it much, but it is a fact. I do not like the fact that Zimmerman took the life of Martin,
Now we are in 100% agrement
but it happened. Nothing you or anyone else can ever do will change that fact, so what is the point of churning up the sewage? None of this should have happened but the fact of the matter is that this kind of things happen. What we should be focusing on is, changing the circumstances that lead to this kind of happening.
And how pray tell would you circumvent racial profiling?
"The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority.
The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority.
The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking."
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PostSun Jul 21, 2013 8:38 pm » by handy4321


Noentry wrote:
handy4321 wrote:Are you saying that it is impossible to take a life with bare hands?
Nope. Never said that.
Are you saying that it is impossible for a six foot "child" inflict harm or even fatal damage on another? What world do you live in? Has this never happened in the world in which you live? In my world, even young children have killed.
A child being followed kills stalker I say the kid got away lucky
I do not like it much, but it is a fact. I do not like the fact that Zimmerman took the life of Martin,
Now we are in 100% agrement
but it happened. Nothing you or anyone else can ever do will change that fact, so what is the point of churning up the sewage? None of this should have happened but the fact of the matter is that this kind of things happen. What we should be focusing on is, changing the circumstances that lead to this kind of happening.
And how pray tell would you circumvent racial profiling?


Ahhhh, there it is. The whole reasoning behind your motivation and continued posting on this subject, race war! Divide and conquer. Exactly what team are you batting for? Do you really wish to divide and subjugate mankind?

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PostSun Jul 21, 2013 8:44 pm » by Fatdogmendoza


Mr Handy, you seem to divagrate at almost impossible tangents at times..please do not take this in the wrong way, but may I ask your age, your arguments seem to resemble those of a child, youth, adolescent or pre-adult...I am not speculating, just making an observation that may well be fallacious..
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PostSun Jul 21, 2013 8:46 pm » by Noentry


handy4321 wrote:
Noentry wrote:
handy4321 wrote:Are you saying that it is impossible to take a life with bare hands?
Nope. Never said that.
Are you saying that it is impossible for a six foot "child" inflict harm or even fatal damage on another? What world do you live in? Has this never happened in the world in which you live? In my world, even young children have killed.
A child being followed kills stalker I say the kid got away lucky
I do not like it much, but it is a fact. I do not like the fact that Zimmerman took the life of Martin,
Now we are in 100% agrement
but it happened. Nothing you or anyone else can ever do will change that fact, so what is the point of churning up the sewage? None of this should have happened but the fact of the matter is that this kind of things happen. What we should be focusing on is, changing the circumstances that lead to this kind of happening.
And how pray tell would you circumvent racial profiling?


Ahhhh, there it is. The whole reasoning behind your motivation and continued posting on this subject, race war! Divide and conquer. Exactly what team are you batting for? Do you really wish to divide and subjugate mankind?


One person racial profiles another does not constitute a race war. :look:
I told you, you watch to much tele.

Have you noticed you have no points worth debating so you jump of one worthless point after another trying to find a decent argument.

How many times do you want me to make you look foolish?
You have done nothing for which ever side( you brought sides into this :think: ) you think you represent.

Honestly mate, leave it you are killing Zimmerman's case.
You been all the way round the block and in the end you went back to exactly where you started.
Clueless
"The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority.
The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority.
The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking."
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PostSun Jul 21, 2013 9:04 pm » by handy4321


[quote]And how pray tell would you circumvent racial profiling?[Quote]

You see, this is the whole problem with the argument certain people are presenting. The whole incident had NOTHING to do with racial profiling, yet some wish to keep interjecting this. Prove it if you can! The area had been stricken with crime and the residents of the area wished to see it end. A person not of the neighborhood, was seen in the area, it was as simple as that! You people keep flipping up the race card with no basis in fact.

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PostSun Jul 21, 2013 9:07 pm » by Noentry


handy4321 wrote:
And how pray tell would you circumvent racial profiling?

You see, this is the whole problem with the argument certain people are presenting. The whole incident had NOTHING to do with racial profiling, yet some wish to keep interjecting this. Prove it if you can! The area had been stricken with crime and the residents of the area wished to see it end. A person not of the neighborhood, was seen in the area, it was as simple as that! You people keep flipping up the race card with no basis in fact.


Ok simple question.
When Zimmerman noticed Trayvon what caught his eye?
"The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority.
The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority.
The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking."
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PostSun Jul 21, 2013 9:15 pm » by handy4321


Ok simple question.
When Zimmerman noticed Trayvon what caught his eye?


Would that not require you or me to be in Zimmerman's head? Perhaps you have the ability to know another's mind, I do not posses that ability. We both can speculate what was going on in either's mind. Speculation is not a factual thing.

The fact of the matter is, the only "game" you've got requires the race card. Drop the race card and you must fold. This was not a racially motivated incident and there is no way that you can prove it was.

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PostSun Jul 21, 2013 9:31 pm » by Fatdogmendoza


FFS Handy, TM was racially profiled, however that does not make it a racist killing do you know the difference. A black man can racially profile a black kid, that does not necessarily mean he hates black kids... :bang;
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PostSun Jul 21, 2013 9:37 pm » by Noentry


handy4321 wrote:
Would that not require you or me to be in Zimmerman's head? Perhaps you have the ability to know another's mind, I do not posses that ability. We both can speculate what was going on in either's mind. Speculation is not a factual thing.



haha you are being silly.
Just about every other person who has spoken about this case believes it was racial profiling.
No one here in DTV has said this is a racial killing. Not that I have heard

Let me explain for you.


A spate of robberies committed by a gang of black criminals is targeting the gated community.
A neighborhood watchman see's a strange hoddied black person walking through his gated community.
A gated community 1 in 5 are black residents.
A strange black boy walking in the neighborhood would not be an uncommon site. 1 in 5 are black :think:
He misidentified the boy. Zimmerman was not an eyewitness to those who are targeting the community.
He saw a black person in a hoddie. In his mind the child was up to no good. "These punks always get away" is what he said.
The only correlation between the robbers and Trayvon is he was wearing a hoodie and he was black.
And in your mind he was not racially profiling.
Image

Its been interesting. But you need to learn to formulate a point of view with substance.
I tell you what my advice read the original post. You wanna learn how to give a open and intelligent point of view that does not come of the tele.
You can learn a lot from a man like CN.
Chronicnerd wrote:I had posted this back in March of 2012:
black-community-out-of-control-and-prejudice-to-boot-t69954.html

First, I *have* to say that the moderators locking this thread was a *good* thing. My initial posting pointed out hypocrisy amongst the black community *leaders*...

The *leaders* I would qualify as anyone who is viewed amongst the more "liberally influenced" black community as being a "voice of their community".


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For anyone wanting to just post racial comments...don't post in this thread please?
(you know who you are)
Again... I am asking as nice as possible... if you have no constructive input...
Don't post here...
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I had made a *relatively* concise and accurate assessment of the situation, which quickly turned into comments of racial negativity more than a year ago when everyone thought "for sure" that this was a case of a "white man shooting a black child".

When one says "the black community is out of control and prejudice to boot"... it can seem like a "blanket statement"... which it really was not...

One needs to understand why I decided to call it "black community":
1.) There is no real "face" to this "community", but the "community" has many faces
2.) The "community" is *primarily* black Americans, but does contain other Americans of different skin pigmentation.
3.) The "community" does *NOT*, by any stretch of the imagination, mean that "all black people think/act this way"...but the *majority* of the "community" happens to be black and not as well educated as other Americans.
4.) The "community" is supported by already existing "African American"/"Black American" communities who's goal was to fight for black Americans rights.
5.) There are *many* black Americans who believe Zimmerman was not guilty, the black "communities" and media are blowing it out of proportion, and who understand that there are *much worse* issues and crimes that we all should be focusing on.
6.) When I state "black community", since there is no "official" title to this group of Americans who seem to want to create a very clear line between "white people" and "black people"...so...the usage of "black community" in *this* post (as well as my original post) is meant to be directed towards those within the Black American population who are willing to look past *facts* and *reality* in the name of "proving white people are all prejudice and only want to see black people fail" (or a general feeling along those lines).

*** WITH THIS ALL STATED CLEARLY AS TO WHICH BLACK AMERICANS I SPEAK OF ***

If you look at how the "community" is reacting to:

A fair trial with 6 jurors and a prosecution who failed to do *anything* but prove even further that Zimmerman was acting in self-defense.


But who can we point fingers at?!? (People love to point blame away from themselves)

It boils down to ** TWO ** Scenarios:

Zimmerman's part in the Tragedy:
Zimmerman "should" have listened to the dispatcher when she instructed him to stay in his car. Had he done this, but just followed Trayvon around in his car (Zimmerman's) then both would "possibly" be here still today and you would not be reading these typed words.


Trayvon's part in the Tragedy:
Zimmerman asked Trayvon where he was going and had some form of dialog with Zimmerman.
Trayvon could have *EASILY* at *ANY TIME* said/Yelled:
"Wait! I am staying with my Uncle here at (insert address here), and just trying to get home without getting too wet!"



Zimmerman:
Is Latin American, Irish, and Black American (genetics wise)... as in not a "cracka".
Helps non-profits and has a history of having *zero* prejudice towards people of different ethnic backgrounds / skin pigmentation.
He was even "voluntarily" acting as a neighborhood watch (as in not sitting at home all comfy, but giving back to the community).
Had no record of violence or crimes up until this incident.


Trayvon Martin:
I am sure was a good kid, but *seemed* to have ended up in a "bad crowd".
Had a long record of violence, drugs, and even...theft...
Had THC in his blood according to the autopsy.
Had an Uncle who evidently "allowed" Trayvon to go out in the neighborhood, at night, while it was raining/drizzling, to go get a drink and some candy...even though the entire neighborhood *knew* there had been all sorts of burglaries.



My Personal Opinion Now that all Information is Available:
I think Zimmerman *definitely* needs to have his CHL *revoked*, because anyone teaching a CHL class would have said the right "answer" was to not put oneself in danger...a concealed gun is for protection and defense when on a civilian...not law enforcement. This assessment is fair...and accurate...whether one wants to believe it or not. Perhaps suspension until he has re-taken the CHL *once more*, because he evidently was not trained well or did not listen during the part where the instructor defined "why one would want to carry a concealed handgun on oneself" as well as did not listen to or was not instructed in his CHL class when they covered CHLs and police encounters and how one must properly act in order to avoid "accidents or misunderstandings".

However....

Trayvon Martin *should* have:
Immediately Identified himself as a nephew of someone living in the neighborhood, and not try to "avoid" or "agitate" the situation.
The minute *any* form of close encounter happened, he should have...*again*... ~ IDENTIFIED HIMSELF AND WHO HE WAS STAYING WITH ~

Finally, his Uncle/Aunt should have *KNOWN* better than to allow Trayvon to go outside at that hour with all of the crime happening, which only leads one to *SPECULATE* (as in this is speculation) that Trayvon Martin had "sneaked" out of the house to smoke a bowl/blunt/roach and get some "munchie" food...without his Uncle knowing.

The fact that he had THC in his blood (enough to know that he had smoked earlier that evening before being shot), leads one to believe:

Trayvon ~probably~ was more *PARANOID* than usual, because he was ~HIGH~.
Trayvon ~probably~ ditched any "evidence" of "weed" he might have had on him, thus why he "disappeared" when he was asked by Zimmerman where he was going (i.e. paranoid he would get caught with drugs...*again*).

Finally, we have *no* specific information as to the *exact* reason why he was staying with his Uncle, but he had *recently* been expelled from School and I am sure he felt like he "couldn't afford getting into any more trouble"... and as such... tried to avoid... and perhaps panic of some form towards the end which *very well* could have led to "a misunderstanding" as to what Zimmerman was *REALLY* trying to do...


This *WHOLE* thing could have been avoided if Trayvon had simply told Zimmerman he was just trying to get back to his Uncle's home...in the neighborhood...if Trayvon gave an address =OR= simply his Uncle's name...it very well could be that Zimmerman would have at least "known" of his Uncle and/or his Uncle's home and would have possibly offered Trayvon a ride back home out of the rain.

I know... sounds almost impossible...Zimmerman giving Trayvon a ride back to his Uncle's house...but when you hear what all Zimmerman was involved with, community wise and non-profit wise, you then one can see that it is very *probable* that had Zimmerman *known* who Trayvon was...or where he was staying in the neighborhood... he would have just simply left him alone and/or offered to help get him home (saying something to the effect "we have had lots of robberies here, let me get you back home safely).

It sounds almost *impossible*... to many I am sure... but not *ONCE* did I hear or see *ANYTHING* from the prosecution that showed Trayvon Martin tried to *IDENTIFY HIMSELF* to Zimmerman...

Not ONCE...

What we do know is that:
Trayvon was using foul language while on the phone with his "girlfriend", and while interacting with Zimmerman.
Trayvon tried to flee from Zimmerman initially.
Trayvon resisted in some way/shape or form.
Trayvon *never* knocked on the closest house to ask for help (if he really thought he was in danger)
Trayvon *had a phone* and *NEVER* dialed 911 to tell the cops "someone is following me".
Trayvon was *high*...which distorts perception of events happening as well as make "scary" situations seem "more intense"...

We also know that:
His guardians in the neighborhood (Uncle) either *allowed* him to go out at night *or* he sneaked out...but either case...there is *NO RECORD* of them trying to call him during the period of the incident. This leads one to believe they had "no idea" or "were not being very smart" about allowing him to "go outside at night" (with Trayvon's history and the neighborhood's history...not a very good mix).


So... in the end...

We had a full trial.
The prosecution had *PLENTY* of time to gather information.
The prosecution had *The Upper Hand* when it came to the MEDIA COVERAGE.
The prosecution changed the charges several times, even in the *MIDDLE* of the trial.
The Judge harassed Zimmerman during the trial.
The jury were all women, some black, some mothers of children themselves.

When everything was "said and done", there was:

Evidence that Trayvon Martin responded in a "suspicious" way as well as a "foul language" way.
Evidence that Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin were fighting.
Evidence that Trayvon Martin *had to be on top of Zimmerman* when the gun fired.
Evidence that Trayvon Martin *thought Zimmerman was a "craka" white man*, and expressed this...
Evidence that Trayvon Martin was physically assaulting Zimmerman...
Evidence that Trayvon Martin was high (high levels of THC in his blood)...
Evidence from an eye witness account of Trayvon Martin on top of Zimmerman punching him...



*** Bringing it Full Circle ***

The very first link to the old posting outlined many of the people involved (all the way up to Mr. Obama himself)...

Even though there was a *VERY* fair trial (in favor of Trayvon Martin), the "Black Community" *STILL* thinks there is some form of "injustice" that happened...

A full trial...
All evidence points to an "escalating" event that could have been *easily* stopped with Trayvon taking 5-10 seconds of his life...to tell Zimmerman who he was and where he was staying...which he never did.


How many people would tell their kids to attack someone who is in a car and asking them "who they were and where they were going"?

How many people that lived in a neighborhood that had so many burglaries would allow their Nephew to go out, in the rain, to get junk food from a "Circle-K/Stop and Shop"?

How many people would tell someone asking them "who they were and where they were going" to "F-Off and mind their own business"?



Now... we have Eric Holder wanting to make this a "Civil Rights" violation... and the "Black Community" supporting it...as well as we have "Black Community Leaders" calling for riots...


Even though...the evidence is clear...the jury had their verdict...and Zimmerman was found "Not Guilty" of 2nd Degree murder...but guilty of "self defense murder"...

Other than the bullet hole (which is a tragedy indeed), Trayvon had no "scratches" or "bruises"...
Zimmerman had a broken nose, bruises, and cuts on the back of his head..


Yet the "Black Community" doesn't like this Reality...

Of course we have things like this happening *EVERY DAY*:

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/man_shot_in_head_in_broad_daylight_5lOmcRkgAkYeO3fIFNuXxO


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So...

We have *JUST A SMALL SAMPLE* above of what I would say is 1,000x worse than what we have *ALL* been focusing on...

The Trayvon Martin case is *NOTHING* compared to some of the things happening...

Do we see white people rioting in the streets?
Do we see "White Power" groups all up in arms?

Nope...

But we sure do hear *QUITE* a bit about a 17 year old, 160-170 lb, 6' tall black *young adult* who was *on top* of Zimmerman *punching him* and *banging his head on the concrete*...who then got shot by Zimmerman...

Could Zimmerman have rolled him off?

Maybe... but then again... if you had a gun and where in Zimmerman's place...with adrenaline pumping and possibly some panic... might you have reached for your gun, pointed in a general direction, and fired?

If the man on you started struggling for your gun...might you have struggled against him and possibly pulled the trigger?


And what of all of these "Black on White" hate crimes? A black man breaking into a home, brutally beating a white woman in front of her child... a black teenager robs a store and shoots a 13 month old "white" baby...and the list goes on and on...

Yet... Trayvon Martin...has had his "Civil Rights" violated?

Yeah... the "Black Community" (per initial definition at top of this post) is *most definitely* out of control...


Now turn of your tele it is turning your brain into mush.
"The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority.
The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority.
The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking."
A. A. Milne

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PostSun Jul 21, 2013 9:45 pm » by handy4321


FFS Handy, TM was racially profiled, however that does not make it a racist killing do you know the difference.


Of coarse you can prove this statement? Does this mean that you are dropping the race card? If this is so, that leaves the facts standing on their own merit.
An unfamiliar adolescent male was moving through a high crime neighborhood and was followed by a man enlisted to do his level best to deter further crime. Is following someone a crime, no. Is physically assaulting someone a crime, yes. Case closed, literally. By a court and a jury of peers. That is the simple facts of the whole story.


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