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PostThu Apr 23, 2009 6:32 pm » by Count_E.R.Measure


spock wrote:Yes, but Freedom, Liberty and Peace has been achieved with the blood of patriots.


What Freedom, Liberty and Peace are you referring to?

Is it the freedom to choose between a Petrol or Diesel burning car? Well maybe you roll on gas, which isn't better either.
Liberty is to go and get pissed at your local pub.
And of course there is the never ending world peace we are all bathing in, permanentely.

Excuse my sarkasm but
:bullshit: :bullshit: :bullshit: :bullshit: :bullshit:

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PostThu Apr 23, 2009 7:33 pm » by Cornbread714


spock wrote:Yes, but Freedom, Liberty and Peace has been achieved with the blood of patriots.


I think after hearing Timothy McVeigh say that same sentence it kinda lost a lot of meaning for me (although that whole debacle left serious questions like 9/11 did).

I have to go with the Left-wingers on this one. I HATE the words Nationalism and Patriotism, and there aren't many words I hate.
(I'm getting off-topic, I think I like Ron Paul.)
I'm NOT proud of America. It's like saying I'm proud of the Western Hemisphere or, hey, Earth Kicks Ass!!. WTF?
It's a piece of real estate, demarcated and divided up largely by opportunistic thugs (read your history books).
Anybody that thinks there is something sacred about our system of government has fallen for a cheap myth, complete with glued-on spangles and cardboard facades.
Nationalist myths do not serve anyone, ever, in the long term, and don't make me dig up examples.
I would go so far as to say America has been a "grand experiment", but nothing more.
We are just one of the latest in a long series of colonial empires, and I think our hey-day may be drawing to a possibly rapid close.
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PostThu Apr 23, 2009 7:34 pm » by Darkspark


spock wrote:Yes, but Freedom, Liberty and Peace has been achieved with the blood of patriots.


Not quite, thats what good ol' American folk lore would have you believe. American 'patriots' in the American Revolution threw off the yolk of the evil British Empire and after that it was all free and fair (sorry if you are american, I honestly don't want to insult people) but Slavery and the trade in slaves was abolished by Britain before the US.

In short, the people who faught and died on the American side, faught to rid themselves from oppressive government and to (ideally) bring about a wonderful free nation with all that good stuff :) But they were citizens of a British nation at that time and if they were patriots they would have been doing what was in the best interest of Britain.

patriot

Noun
a person who loves his or her country and passionately supports its interests [Greek patris native land]
patriotic adj
patriotically adv
patriotism n
Collins Essential English Dictionary 2nd Edition 2006 © HarperCollins Publishers 2004, 2006


Freedom, Liberty & Peace aren't always achieved by bloodshed and bloodshed should be avoided fervently in my opinion.

I don't know if you agree but I certainly think the ideas that those people died for, at breeds hill, concord & lexington and many other places, are clear in the US or indeed the World today.

(Just to clarify, I think the US started with, if history is truth, the best start compared with any other nation. They had a pack of men at the head of a noble cause and ideology, but let us never forget Germany was one of the most liberal and cultured places on Earth when hitler came to power. If you always think a nation is immune from tyranny, thats when it occurs)

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PostThu Apr 23, 2009 7:36 pm » by Darkspark


cornbread714 wrote:
spock wrote:Yes, but Freedom, Liberty and Peace has been achieved with the blood of patriots.


I think after hearing Timothy McVeigh say that same sentence it kinda lost a lot of meaning for me (although that whole debacle left serious questions like 9/11 did).

I have to go with the Left-wingers on this one. I HATE the words Nationalism and Patriotism, and there aren't many words I hate.
(I'm getting off-topic, I think I like Ron Paul.)
I'm NOT proud of America. It's like saying I'm proud of the Western Hemisphere or, hey, Earth Kicks Ass!!. WTF?
It's a piece of real estate, demarcated and divided up largely by opportunistic thugs (read your history books).
Anybody that thinks there is something sacred about our system of government has fallen for a cheap myth, complete with glued-on spangles and cardboard facades.
Nationalist myths do not serve anyone, ever, in the long term, and don't make me dig up examples.
I would go so far as to say America has been a "grand experiment", but nothing more.
We are just one of the latest in a long series of colonial empires, and I think our hey-day may be drawing to a possibly rapid close.


Thats what i'd say if i was being blunt :)
You are the spirit, your ego is the test!

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PostSun Apr 26, 2009 2:30 pm » by Ogmios


I think the worst thing about nationalism is its' reliance on hatred and blind loyalty to control people.

If you are Dutch; you are supposed to hate Germans: Chinese and Japanese don't get on: The Scots and Irish disapprove of the English who dislike the French and the Germans who don't care too much for the Americans: The Americans, on the other hand, can't be bothered with the Cubans, Venezuelans, Columbians, Afghanis, Iraqis and view the Russians as rather shady individuals.

They do also fight with each other now and again and innocent people (as well as economic conscripts) lose their lives. I like to massage my own ego on this issue and imagine myself as having evolved beyond national identity.
"God is a concept by which we measure our pain"
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PostSun Apr 26, 2009 5:11 pm » by Lowsix


Count_E.R.Measure wrote:[What Freedom, Liberty and Peace are you referring to?


Freedom:
Can you get in your car and drive fom one end of the country to another without being prevented from doing so? Can you fly anywhere you want, do almost anything you want, work anywhere you are qualified to do so, have any types of friends and associates you wish? Can you get on a cheap-ass foreign made computer and insult your leaders with no fear of reprisals? Can you spout nonsense like every single plane that flies in the sky is a tool of the NWO trying to kill us all off without the bother of real science getting int he way? can you listen ot the radio where morons are calling for open revolution and secession without you OR them being targeted for assasination? Can you fill your house with useless cheap knicknacks? can you drink beer openly at nascar events? Does your satellite get 50 channels from which to choose? Does your local walmart carry 150 types of shampoo? can you buy a 30 inch tv for less than 250 bucks? Or a computer for less that $800? Can you use the net to basically pirate movies, music, games, and compuer programs without having your door kicked in and hauled away? can you organize protests to change what you do not like? Can you vote for or nominate candidates who say things you DO like without being killed for it? How much did your public school education cost? If it wasnt to your liking did you have the freedom to go toa private school? Were you able to bend school rules becuse of religious preferences?

Yeah, I think so.

Liberty:
Can you go to any school you want, study and subject you want and start almost any business you want? can you go into any career field that you choose to study? Can you get FREE grants to get that education? Can you choose WHERE you want to go to school? can you get help while going to scchool, such as food stamps, cheap loans? If you lose your job , does the state step in to help you with unemployment? can you choose your doctor?Can you freely hate the blacks, jews italians, cubans, isrealis, arabs, and russians if you want? can you befriend any person from any of those groups without being arrested and tortured? Can you write anonymously on the net without fear of reprisals about the injustice that occurs in places where torture DOES occur? Can you run around with a camera in the face of law enforcement pointing out their errors without being shot dead in the street?

Of course.

Peace:
Did anyone drive by your home and fill it full of bullets today? Is there a drug war in your neighborhood that has claimed the lives of approxiamtely 35 people a week STEADY for the last six years straight? Are your policmen firmly in the pockets of Drug cartels? WIll they answer your calls for help i f you are attacked, robbed stabbed or burglarized?
Did your car get destroyed by an IED on your way to work today? Was your place of work bombed..was the supermarket where you buy .69 cent heads of lettuce suicide bombed?
Has anyone shot at you or tried to stab or behead you today because of your religious or political beliefs? Were members of your family rounded up for their or your criticism of the government and shot in a ditch? Was your little sister raped and murdered by your father becuase she like a boy from t he wrong family? Was your mom beaten in public for not covering her face? Is there an invading army at your doorstep threatening to kill you? How many terrorist acts claimed lives in America in 2008? How many deaths from chemtrails can you prove? How many cases of autism from vaccines can you personnally vouch for? Are your neighbors creating militias to control blocks of your town and killing each other over it?

Thats what Freedom, Peace, and Liberty you get to take free advantage of at NO COST TO YOU.... you ungrateful whining, ignorant fool....

Hearing people like you trash what we Do have, makes me fucking sick, and I hate you for it, beause youre too stupid to realize what we DO have and spend all your time complaining about what we DONT have, when in reality we actually DO.

Its not even a lack of Patriotism that makes you a shitty American, its your lack of realistic perspective, hand fed all this Freedom/Liberties lost by zealots who dont care about you..they just want to see you rise up and whine.

Good for you and good for them..its America, you can do that useless shit if you want..and there are no consequences..

Grow up.
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PostSun Apr 26, 2009 5:33 pm » by lainn


Damn Six.......the katana of your passion is very sharp....it cuts and the blood runs rivers when you decide to head hunt....points taken and absorbed though.....

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PostSun Apr 26, 2009 5:35 pm » by Darkspark


The term freedom is a tricky one, because you are free to kill someone even though there will be consequences.

I suppose liberty is the freedom most people to refer to, in the sense of doing something with no consequences.

Peace is as the other terms are, amiguous. Is the USA at peace? it's involved in wars so technically it is not. But then again there are hardly foreign troops marching through the streets of New York.

Maybe your interpretation of the words just depends on your greater outlook of the world and your own place in it. Should Americans only be concerned with their own peoples happiness? In my opinion, no. But the same goes for every other human and nation on the planet.
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PostSun Apr 26, 2009 7:35 pm » by Earthwalker


In Our country, we do not have a King and a Queen, not a Royal Family. But we have A Mrs President and Her Husband :sunny:
Our country has really beautiful nature and Dear God has given us thousands of little, blue lakes and a crystalwhite snowcover during the wintertime. That is why our flag has white and blue colours. It is white with a blue cross. In our official state herald, there is a three-battled watchtower. In the front of the tower stands a lion as a sentry with two paws upon a sword, holding another sword in its right frontpaw. In its head it has a crown.
I was wondering, if we could rename our country. Maybe we are a bit jealous to all the king- and queencountries, which have a big royal family, that gives so much to talk about during the long, dark and cold winterevenings. Instead of being Finland, it sounds like Final Destination, so endless dead and while laying so high up in the north, we could be
FAIRYLAND :sunny:
We already have Father Christmas, the Santa Claus, living here in Lapland with his gnomes and reindeers, Mominworld with all kind of funny and furry creatures, "Devilsingers" with many "beautiful" angelboys and angelgirls. We have worlds´s fastest cardrivers, skijumpers, better than anyone else, inventors, who can unify the whole world. And All this, in the middle of endless green landscape with blueberries, sweet little strawberries, swamps and beautiful little flowers, which give their beauty free for everyone, who walks along our wooded paths during the summertime. One of my favourite flowers is a tiny, little white flower, we call Foreststar. It has usually only one humble white starlike bloom in the middle of green leaves, but it shines like a twinkling star in the dim of the forest and enlightens your soul. Come and see for yourself :sunny:
You also might have a chance to come across with a real bear, wolf, elk or lynx (bobcat), without speaking of many other small creatures, which sing their songs in the summerly wooded shadows. So be warmly welcome to have a visit and enjoy the Midnightsun in the most beautiful and magical Fairyland :sunny:
P.S. I think we also have enough place for Jesus or Jesuses, as I have already seen many of them in this world :sunny:

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PostSun Apr 26, 2009 7:52 pm » by Ogmios


darkspark wrote:The term freedom is a tricky one, because you are free to kill someone even though there will be consequences.

I suppose liberty is the freedom most people to refer to, in the sense of doing something with no consequences.

Peace is as the other terms are, amiguous. Is the USA at peace? it's involved in wars so technically it is not. But then again there are hardly foreign troops marching through the streets of New York.

Maybe your interpretation of the words just depends on your greater outlook of the world and your own place in it. Should Americans only be concerned with their own peoples happiness? In my opinion, no. But the same goes for every other human and nation on the planet.


Good point. Freedom is a very subjective term and doesn't have to apply to everyone. I would argue that if your freedom relies upon wage slavery and subjegation elsewhere then you only have an illusion of freedom.

How free are the Iraqis who have had their government replaced at the whim of the West? Or the Chinese who work like Trojans to supply us with cheap trainers?

I think a better word is equality.
"God is a concept by which we measure our pain"
John Lennon


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