An answer from believer is required, thank you

Initiate
User avatar
Posts: 990
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:53 pm

PostTue Feb 01, 2011 2:31 pm » by Charashc


namaste wrote:
charashc wrote:. So why do we believe Islam is dating since Mohammad?


Reword your question Ahki. Not sure if I understand what you are asking.



Why is it said in dictionary that Islam was founded during the lifetime of Mohammad?

It's obvious that Abraham was servant to one and only God, Moses was servant to one and only God, ISRAEL was servant to one and only God, Jesus was servant to one and only God, Mohammad was servant to one and only God.
Everyone I mentioned (and many more of them..) lived their lifes in TOTAL SUBMISSION TO ONE AND ONLY GOD.
Like I said earlier, free will does not contradict total submission to one God. You are doing it willingly.

So if you gonna say for Moses that he was a servant of God, then on other language you would have said that he's a Muslim. It's the language thing, nothing more. If you are to say his lifestyle was total submission to one and only God (and Bible confirms that) then on other langauge you can say his lifestyle was Islam.

So Islam (total submission to one and only God) was founded by Adam and not by Mohammad.

Mohammad merely presented changes, both in laws and in worshipping of God, the very same thing Moses did in his lifetime. That's why Deut 18:18 is speaking about Mohammad, when it clearly states that there will be prophet like Moses (bringing new laws and new message from God Allmighty).

So I come to the point. Why we all find religions funny? Cause they were mostly constructed by criminals, so they cannot be relevant. Why do people who left christianity find Islam silly? It's called prejudice. If Islam is even newer than Christianity, it must be even more funny. If you can read and understand Koran you'll never it mock it again..

toxic32 wrote:Seeing as though Mosses was talking to aliens at the time on the mount when got the rules for living together in peace (10 commandments) I would call his religion deludedism or fooledism anyway as long as it ends in ism it don't matter.
Image


This is a guy who thinks religion is silly (because creation was unable to measure Creator with creation's measurments... paradox dude...) and yet they have led him to believe he was a monkey. Or his father was monkey. Or his grandfather was a monkey. Or 78 zillions years ago humans and monkeys were the same. That same ancestor. Whose fosil was never found. Or any other fosil that confirms that some species became some other species. SCIENCE debunked evolution. Koran goas along science. Koran said 1500 years about big bang and universe being constantly expanding, Koran explained many more universal miracles (which is most certainly another topic).. But there you are, thinking you are free of religious control, and yet you believe you are monkey.
I think we humans are about to make artificial evolution, with these human beings starting to think like monkeys....
Image

Conspirator
User avatar
Posts: 7683
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:14 am

PostTue Feb 01, 2011 5:04 pm » by 99socks


charashc wrote:
99socks wrote:
You forgot the "quotes".


Very nice drama skills namaste, you should have tried some acting academy. You are right however, they were both Muslims, they would say so for themselves. So why do we believe Islam is dating since Mohammad?

And where exactly did you contribute to the topic socksy?



Right there; you just quoted me.

Muslims think that because Abraham and Moses believed and worshiped God before Jewish law came down that that means they were "Muslim" if we take in consideration the meaning of the word "Muslim" to mean "One Who Submits (to God). However, that should be separate from a Muslim, one who submits to the jurisprudence of Islamic law. So in that case, Abraham and Moses were NOT Muslim, the very same way they were NOT Jews.
Image

Initiate
User avatar
Posts: 633
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:11 pm

PostTue Feb 01, 2011 6:17 pm » by Sentientseed


There are so many different writings on Moses it is unreal. So many different viewpoints it can make one's head swim.

I've read books that equated moses with Akhenaten and a myriad of others.

I've even considered Moses story to be that of a megalomanic.

To say one knows someone who supposedly lived ages ago or to know more of them than the story tells is merely pure projection, correlation, speculation and entertainment.

Very interesting to speculate about but that is about as close to truth as we will come I would venture to guess.

Even consensus is only an agreed upon majority speculation.

Beyond the entertainment and thought provoking aspects of it all...which may lead to mind expansion, self reflection, and minor practical use...getting to absolute truth on most any matter seems to merely be a pipe dream.

For me...a quote from Bill and Ted sums up the core of what religion in practice should be...the rest is best for things I mentioned above. RIP CARLIN!


Upload to Disclose.tv

"There is more than just one answer to these questions pointing me in a crooked line. The less I seek my source for some definite...the closer I am to fine!"~Indigo girls

Initiate
User avatar
Posts: 990
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:53 pm

PostTue Feb 01, 2011 7:00 pm » by Charashc


99socks wrote:Muslims think that because Abraham and Moses believed and worshiped God before Jewish law came down that that means they were "Muslim" if we take in consideration the meaning of the word "Muslim" to mean "One Who Submits (to God). However, that should be separate from a Muslim, one who submits to the jurisprudence of Islamic law. So in that case, Abraham and Moses were NOT Muslim, the very same way they were NOT Jews.


So that's your contribution?
Saying: Muslims do not submit to God but to jurisprudence of Islamic law?
Do you see why I asked you that question? You are not contributing....

And the great conclusion is that Abraham and Moses were real Muslims, while these Muslims today are not. And that's where you and me agree. Islam is not something that "belongs" to Arabs, it belong to the whole world. Follow the path of Abraham or Moses or Jesus, but not the path of those who fabricated stories after them. No Muslim alive is familiar with Islam as much as Abraham was, or Moses perhaps, because they understood the essence of total submission to God, unlike Muslims today who just follow whatever is said to them...
Image

Conspirator
User avatar
Posts: 7683
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:14 am

PostTue Feb 01, 2011 8:27 pm » by 99socks


charashc wrote:You are not contributing....




Of course I'm not. I did da'wah for 10 years, and I'm done with it. Filling peoples' heads with never-ending debates about which no one has actual proof of is not edifying in an any manner, no matter how you cut it. I also know the uselessness of even trying to explain that to you. You have seen the light, via ideas whose sole purpose is to plant doubt and (eventually) distrust (and hate) in you, concerning who you are, where you come from, and what your purpose in life is. That source which destroys your identity and humanity will be the same one to attempt to fill the hole that it left behind in its wake. But I will tell you this: knowledge, education, laws, and morality cannot compete with wisdom and love. You cannot take out the heart and leave just the brain; doing so will kill the soul. Unfortunately, many souls never come back from the dead.

Ma'a salaama
Image

Conspirator
User avatar
Posts: 3053
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:31 pm
Location: Looking for a city, not built by man!

PostTue Feb 01, 2011 8:38 pm » by Truthdefender


charashc wrote:Very simple question.
What was religion of Moses?
If we are all to be ressurected at the end of the days and asked what we trusted in, what would Moses answer to God?
We must understand that the word Judaism came much later Moses, it's named Judaism by Judah, the son of Jacob a.k.a. Israel. And they are all descentents of Moses. So there was no such a word as Judaism when Moses was alive, and he would most probably use words he used while he was alive.
I wasn't meant to ask about Jesus, but since I'm here let me do it. What about Jesus?
What will Jesus say? Term "Christianism" was first mentioned in Book of Acts, written after Jesus died. Mostly fabricated book also, but that's another subject.
Now I totally forgot about the fact that Christianity consider Jesus to be whatever it consider him to be, so let me do it other way. What would Jesus say what is his religion?
I ask this 'cause both of them told this while they were alive.
Their religion was - total submission to one and only God.
Correct me if I'm wrong.


Before I get in to answering your question, I would like to point out one flaw with in your logic regarding the book of Acts.

Don't those following Islam consider the Gospels to be Holy inspired books? And Luke is in the Gospels, or Injeel as I believe you call it. Acts was written by Luke beyond a shadow of a doubt. How do you explain your denial of Acts? Too much Jesus as the Son of God stuff.


Upload to Disclose.tv



In Christ are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge
Image

Conspirator
User avatar
Posts: 3053
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:31 pm
Location: Looking for a city, not built by man!

PostTue Feb 01, 2011 8:39 pm » by Truthdefender


truthdefender wrote:
charashc wrote:Very simple question.
What was religion of Moses?
If we are all to be ressurected at the end of the days and asked what we trusted in, what would Moses answer to God?
We must understand that the word Judaism came much later Moses, it's named Judaism by Judah, the son of Jacob a.k.a. Israel. And they are all descentents of Moses. So there was no such a word as Judaism when Moses was alive, and he would most probably use words he used while he was alive.
I wasn't meant to ask about Jesus, but since I'm here let me do it. What about Jesus?
What will Jesus say? Term "Christianism" was first mentioned in Book of Acts, written after Jesus died. Mostly fabricated book also, but that's another subject.
Now I totally forgot about the fact that Christianity consider Jesus to be whatever it consider him to be, so let me do it other way. What would Jesus say what is his religion?
I ask this 'cause both of them told this while they were alive.
Their religion was - total submission to one and only God.
Correct me if I'm wrong.


Before I get in to answering your question, I would like to point out one flaw with in your logic regarding the book of Acts.

Don't those following Islam consider the Gospels to be Holy inspired books? And Luke is in the Gospels, or Injeel as I believe you call it. Acts was written by Luke beyond a shadow of a doubt. How do you explain your denial of Acts? Too much Jesus as the Son of God stuff.


Or the same author of Luke anyway.


Upload to Disclose.tv



In Christ are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge
Image

Conspirator
User avatar
Posts: 4959
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:45 pm

PostTue Feb 01, 2011 8:39 pm » by Phaeton


charashc wrote:
99socks wrote:Muslims think that because Abraham and Moses believed and worshiped God before Jewish law came down that that means they were "Muslim" if we take in consideration the meaning of the word "Muslim" to mean "One Who Submits (to God). However, that should be separate from a Muslim, one who submits to the jurisprudence of Islamic law. So in that case, Abraham and Moses were NOT Muslim, the very same way they were NOT Jews.


So that's your contribution?
Saying: Muslims do not submit to God but to jurisprudence of Islamic law?
Do you see why I asked you that question? You are not contributing....

And the great conclusion is that Abraham and Moses were real Muslims, while these Muslims today are not. And that's where you and me agree. Islam is not something that "belongs" to Arabs, it belong to the whole world. Follow the path of Abraham or Moses or Jesus, but not the path of those who fabricated stories after them. No Muslim alive is familiar with Islam as much as Abraham was, or Moses perhaps, because they understood the essence of total submission to God, unlike Muslims today who just follow whatever is said to them...


:flop: :flop:
"Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who could not hear the music"
"All our science measured against reality, is primitive and childlike - yet, in contemporary consensus, its the most precious thing we have"


Upload to Disclose.tv


Conspirator
User avatar
Posts: 3053
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:31 pm
Location: Looking for a city, not built by man!

PostTue Feb 01, 2011 8:56 pm » by Truthdefender


99socks wrote:
spock wrote:I'm very intrigued by people that glean their truth from the Zietgeist You-Tube movement.

Fact of the matter is, you can NOT prove your point, which helplessly puts you in the same boat you jeer me up as being stuck in, "a belief system".

"Deal with it."




Actually Spock, biblical scholars have been wrestling with the idea of Moses being an amalgam for quite some time.


"Biblical scholars", usually means secular debunker atheists, posing as defenders or preservers of the faith.


Upload to Disclose.tv



In Christ are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge
Image

Conspirator
User avatar
Posts: 3053
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:31 pm
Location: Looking for a city, not built by man!

PostTue Feb 01, 2011 9:02 pm » by Truthdefender


caz240 wrote:Moses followed a light by day and by night for 40 years...he knew that God was on the mountain because it lit up at night...
moses carried with him the Arc of the Covenant that supposedly carried the ten commandments however we now know it contained the "manna" machine some kind of nuclear reactor that produced the algae from the air the same food we feed our astronauts today.
The new testament has too many contradictions to be taken literally however Jesus did exist and there was somethig super natural about him. If you read the 61 books that have been removed from the Bible the whole thing makes a lot more sense but our elites removed them because they contain secrets they do not want us to know...including the book of enoch who was taken by God so that he would never know death...I think what enoch said was very important after all he actually saw God and His Angels...



There were never any books removed from the Bible. Some of the ancient texts were not included because of their heretical doctrines or un-Inspired nature.


Upload to Disclose.tv



In Christ are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge
Image


PreviousNext

  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post
Visit Disclose.tv on Facebook