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Synkronizer wrote:I've just finished watching the full Caesar's Messiah documentary. IMHO the last 10 minutes are truly important. It's about why organised religion is bad, because it makes people follow instructions instead of thinking for their own. It takes power away from the individual and places it in a central authority.
About how mankind really isn't divided the way that religious people perceive it and that the common ground in every religion is studying nature, the sun, the moon, the stars.
About a shift in paradigm that result in people that feel free in truly choose for the believes that serves them. Without the need for a central organ to tell them what to choose.
I think that is truly important and it doesn't matter if this documentary is debunked. I don't care for people's believes. I care for their actions.
I will watch the debunking video now. Thanks for the post TorJohnson! It's good to view different sides on a topic, especially since subject is so big and sensitive.
BTW, I myself don't consider to be part of any religion, but was raised by parents with (european) Roman Christian values. Values which I myself find OK. But I do not partake in organized religious organizations nor do I accept them being imposed on me. I find that the quote "Don't do onto anyone that what you don't want to experience yourself." Is something good to live by and try to help someone if you have the opportunity.
And, as it turns out, those religious institutions are hypocritical, fraudulent, perverted, power-hungry, two-faced, controlling, f*cking things. But, what else is new...
EDIT: WOW, this thread developed alot of pages since I started writing the reply. I'm sorry for being an anachronysm...
I do agree with some of the things you say here. The whole money, power hungry, Prosperity gospel thing is disgusting.
I am a Christian and I devote my life in poverty, choose to live in poverty and serve the community of East Hollywood, moreover my kids go to school here. Everyday it's all about the gospel as Christ would want us to live in our neighborhoods. We manage and distribute 4,000 lbs of food per week (that's right per week), there is a lot of work to do when you accept this much food, think about it. It is non-stop serving...non-stop.
I cannot carry the crosses of other religions, such as Catholic or other Christian prosperity in accumulating wealth.
Once we die none of that stuff goes with us, so love your neighbor and not just talk about it.
Even Richard Dawkins - someone nobody could call a Christian apologist - doesn't endorse the theory. The theory, BTW, debunks itself since it claims the idea was dreamed up in 73 AD...yet the latest date of Paul's letters is around 68AD, and Mark came before that. Even if you don't believe anything in those texts, the numbers don't work. Atwill should have picked 63AD if he wanted any credibility.
Furthermore, Atwill claims the Romans invented the idea to pacify the Jews. But the Jews were WELL pacified by that time - the temple destruction was in 70AD.
Historically and motivationally, the theory falls apart.
But, as always, believe whatever you'd like.
Noentry wrote:Bleever wrote:
If God doesn't exist, the who wrote the Bible. First off not really a clever video although she seems very proud of herself for simply re-phrasing a question.
The Bible does exist, and has, and as ByGrace pointed out one of many fascinating points, such as ------> What about all the fulfilled prophecies and archaeological findings (over 20,000, most of witch are in display in various museums)? Fiction doesn't produce evidence.
There you see.... you could not answer that question truthfully.You are unwilling to even entertain a simple test on your ability to reason logically.
Blind faith has clouded your judgment and your ability to look beyond the four walls of your beliefs.
I think you are capable, but you're unwilling, You have been indoctrination to ignore anything that does not conform with your faith, as demonstrated by your above answer to the question.Bleever wrote:Why does the Bible address life's most complicated questions head on? You would have a terrible time trying to prove to me that man could just make this up, make it all sync together harmoniously, over the course of 1,500 years with 40 different authors in 66 books, written by people on 3 different continents. You would also have a terrible time proving to me that the resurrection of Christ was some twisted plot made up in a top story bedroom designed to fool people into believing in a man who would be raised from the dead after 3 days for the forgiveness of sins.
I am not trying to convince you off anything, all I have done is state I have never seen or had an interaction with a GOD, so I dont believe in one. Christians are notorious for this type of behavior, knocking at my door first thing on a Sunday morning. I never meet an Atheist who went around knocking on peoples doors trying to change their minds. Have you?
The resurrection is impossible...........
let me think about it!!!!!
A made up story of man who comes back to life
or a man really did come back to life..........
Which sounds more plausible, Which is most likely to have occurred?
The historical facts in the bible are not in dispute, the miracles are, (the magic) that is what I do not believe in. The rest may be right for all I know I was not there.
I tell you this you have a book written over and over again by 100's generations it will reflect their history and be rewritten again and again to fit, it would become the combined work of 10's of thousands perhaps more, it would seem beyond any man, because it is beyond any man, but not a beyond the accumulated knowledge of 100' of generations of men.Bleever wrote:Answer me this, if Jesus Christ is not real then why is it the bible cannot be duplicated? Why is it no one else or any other group could not write a similar book with all its truths and meaning? I mean we can create super computers, we can put men on the moon, but in terms of a simple books, why is it no one has tried to re-create another version? I mean, they would stand to make BILLIONS, wouldn't this be a rather easy thing to accomplish or at least consider?
Really you dont know of any others?
Let me refresh your memory..........
Hinduism - The Upanishads, the Mahaburata, and the Vedas.
Buddhism - Doesn't have a holy book as such, but you could consider the Dharma (buddha's teachings) as the closest thing.
Sikhism - the Guru Granth Sahib
Baha'i - Kitáb-i-Aqdas
Confucianism - 9 holy books ('the Confucian classics' - 5 books, and 'the four books' - 4 books.
Jainism - kalpa sutra
Sunni Islam - the Koran
Shintoism - the O'dno Jing
Juche - Kim's book
Taoism - the I Ching or Tao Te Ching
Zoroastrianism - the Avesta
The bible has been bettered never mind duplicated and many of those are older then the bible.
I have answered your question, you see how easy it is for me? it is because my mind is free and not closed as you illustrated earlier.Bleever wrote:Truth is the Bible will be standing strong when you and I have long passed as it has for a very, very long time, it has transcended generations and eons and has yet to be discredited.
We are on the verge of seeing yet another religion die out called, Atheism and yet once this happens, along with the NEO-Darwinists, the BIBLE will still be here...again, and again...so if Man cannot create this then one would at very least consider the possibility of divine inspiration.
You mentioned Prophecy.
Are there any prophecies in the bible that did not come true?
I have answered your questions what is so difficult about mine to answer?
Just for the record on my remarks generalizing Christians from earlier.
If I dont throw out the right bait how can I catch a fish?
So if you please
If God doesn't exist, the who wrote the Bible?
Are there any prophecies in the bible that did not come true?
If you can not Bleever, bygrace is welcome to respond.
The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority.
The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking."
A. A. Milne
“Who wrote the Bible” is a question that is undoubtedly asked by many who are familiar with the impact this book has made on people around the world. The Bible gives guidance in our journey through life to eternity, as well as leads us to a relationship with the God of the universe. It is a historical book that is backed by archeology, and a prophetic book that has lived up to all of its claims thus far. In light of all these facts, asking, “who wrote the bible,” is a vital question that deserves serious investigation and a serious response. The Bible is God’s letter to humanity collected into 66 books written by 40 divinely inspired writers. These writers come from all walks of life (i.e., kings to fishermen) and spans over a period of 1,500 years or more. These claims may seem dramatic (or unrealistic to some), but a careful and honest study of the biblical scriptures will show them to be true.
Who Wrote the Bible - Evidence of Divine Inspiration
“Who wrote the Bible” is a question that can be definitively answered by examining the biblical texts in light of the external evidences that supports its claims. 2 Timothy 3:16 states that “All scripture is inspired by God….” In 2 Peter 1:20-21, Peter reminds the reader to “know this first of all, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, … but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.” The Bible itself tells us that it is God who is the author of His book.
God does not leave us with just claims of His divine handiwork in the Bible, but also supports it with compelling evidence. The design of the Bible itself is a miracle. Written over more than 1,500 years by vastly different writers, yet every book in the Bible is consistent in its message. These 66 books talk about history, prophecy, poetry, and theology. Despite their complexity, differences in writing styles and vast time periods, the books of the Bible agree miraculously well in theme, facts and cross-referencing. No human beings could have planned such an intricate combination of books over a 1,500-year time span. Bible manuscripts (remember, there were no printing presses until 1455) have survived despite weather, persecution and time. Most ancient writings written on weak materials like papyrus have vanished all together. Yet many copies of the Old Testament scriptures survived. For instance, the Dead Sea Scrolls contain all books of the Old Testament, except Esther, and have been dated to before the time of Christ. Consider Julius Caesar’s Gallic Wars. Only ten copies written about 1,000 years after the event are in existence. In comparison, there are over 24,000+ New Testament manuscripts, the earliest one dating to within 24 years after Christ.
The Bible also validates its divine authorship through fulfilled prophecies. An astonishing 668 prophecies have been fulfilled and none have ever been proven false (three are unconfirmed). An honest study of biblical prophecy will compellingly show the divine authorship of the Bible. Further, archeology confirms (or in some cases supports) accounts in the biblical record. No other holy book comes close to the Bible in the amount of evidence supporting its divine authorship.
Who Wrote the Bible - A Question of Eternal Significance
“Who Wrote the Bible” is indeed a question that everyone must ask. If indeed it is the Word of the living God, then no other book gives us more insight into our lives, more hope for our future, and a true path to a relationship with God. Search the Bible with openness and honesty and see for yourself what the Creator of the universe wants to tell you!
King James Version
4 And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat
Bible Texts Locate the Real Mount Sinai
While you deny Christ you except Christ Consciousness. While you deny god you think your evolving
in to God with your conscious. The New Age Dawns as most churches have been infiltrated and have
seduced into greed, lust, power,selling books and false doctrine. While most listen to their preacher
and not holding to discernment through scripture as were told to do. 99% of believers believe they will
be raptured up. There is only resurrection and the bible states who ever doesn't receive the mark to except this new age utopia to control all aspects of life political,financial,scientific,religious,economical
and hold the word of god and the testimony for Jesus Christ as truth and die in the great tribulation
at the hands of the synagogue of Satan having their heads chopped off will be the first resurrection.
King James Version (KJV)
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
King James Version (KJV)
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
King James Version (KJV)
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
While Christianity views Lucifer as the personification of evil, the esoteric teachings of the occult and the New Age movement embrace him as an agent of intellectual and spiritual freedom. Helena Petrovna Blavatsky, the "mother" of the New Age movement and modern occultism, taught in her Secret Doctrine that Lucifer was "higher and older than Jehovah, and had to be sacrificed to the new dogma" of the Church. She further expressed in her "great work" that Satan, under different god-names, is really an allegory of "Good, and Sacrifice, a God of Wisdom." Blavatsky believed that Satan was the only god of earth, "is one with the Logos," and is the "cosmic reflection of God."
"And now it stands proven that Satan, or the Red Fiery Dragon, the 'Lord of Phosphorus,' and Lucifer, or 'Light-Bearer,' is in us: it is our Mind – our tempter and Redeemer, our intelligent liberator and Saviour from pure animalism
"Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish Souls? Doubt it not!"
CHARLOTTE, NC—With the savage roar of the heathen Democratic horde rising all around him, President Barack Obama delivered an incendiary speech to close his party’s national convention Thursday night, commanding the ultraprogressive minions in attendance to help him “destroy Jesus and usher in a new age of liberal darkness that shall reign o’er the earth for a thousand years.”
The thunderous 45-minute address—during which the president argued for a second term so that he could “finally kill Jesus once and for all, as well as all those who worship him”—was well received by the frenzied, wild-eyed audience, whose piercing chants of “Four more years!” and “Slaughter the believers!” echoed throughout the Time Warner Cable Arena.
“My fellow Americans and godless infidels, I command you to join me as we cast an endless pall of far-left evil across the hills and valleys of our nation!” Obama bellowed from the stage, as thousands in attendance moaned in compliance and gyrated their hips and groins in a lascivious dance. “Together, as a barbarian people forged by the wicked flames of irreligiosity and united by visions of a liberal dystopia, we will rise up as one to scorch the earth with boundless amorality.”
“The streets shall run red with the blood of forced sodomy, performed daily upon every American man, woman, and child!” the commander-in-chief shouted, froth forming around his mouth as the crowd threw hundreds of aborted fetuses onto the stage. “Die, Christians, die!”
Slamming his fists on the lectern until his hands began to bleed, Obama proceeded to lay out a “three-point plan of sin and lechery” for his second term. If reelected, the president said, he would begin by banning organized religion entirely—starting with Christianity—and burning all churches to the ground, preferably “with their wretched, Jesus-loving congregants still huddled inside like rats.”
As members of the audience violently tugged at their genitals and howled like sex-starved, atheist wolves, Obama stated that his administration would then seek to make free, taxpayer-funded abortions legal at any stage of pregnancy, even up to one full year after birth, in order to supply his newly created “federal stem-cell harvesting plants” with raw materials.
In addition, the cackling president vowed to “end traditional marriage as we know it” by passing legislation that would allow only homosexuals to raise children, a longtime Democratic policy goal.
“A glorious new age of sinister, unconstrained liberalism is dawning! Oh, dear Satan, I can feel it coursing through my veins at this very moment!” shrieked Obama, ripping off his shirt to reveal an ornate tattoo of a pentagram, with a different homosexual act positioned at each of the star’s five points. “Agnosticism, contempt for human life, and radical sexual experimentation shall rule the day! Any good, virtuous, family-values-oriented Christian Americans who seek to topple our magnificent liberal kingdom of eternal darkness will be powerless to stop us! We will crush them!”
Added Obama, “Thank you, may Satan reward you all, and may God tremble in fear at the United States of America!”
The president was then handed an unbaptized, orphaned newborn baby drenched in the blood of 666 slaughtered Christians, which he handed over to its new, gleefully squealing homosexual parents.
'Christians' have been very succesful in spreading the 'word', not so good in living the 'word'.
The bible is a composition of some ancient scriptures, the majority of those scriptures didn't make it, because they didn't fit in, the bible was composed by humans of scriptures 'written' by humans.
To declare this the word of 'God' is blasphemy imo.
Q: Can you be specific on what the Andromedan viewpoint is on Christianity, especially in view of the fact that they have holographic access to all events that have happened on Earth? I mean, what are some of the specifics?
A: You know, I don't like talking about this, because I was raised a Catholic. I was an altar boy. The truth broke my heart. You know, to find out that what I thought was reality really wasn't. Where I'm at with it is very personal, but I'm not counting on anybody to come down and save me. The Andromedan perspective of the whole scenario is really different that what we've been told.
Q: Well, it's apparent that there were several characters in history with the name Yeshua, translated loosely as "Jesus". There's Yeshua Ben Joseph, etc. How did all this develop?
A: Okay. Basically what happened was that the Catholic church created a composite character, because at the time they were expending a lot of resources putting out religious wars. It seemed like a good idea at the time, but like many things it got perverted. Yeshua Ben Joseph, was a Jewish rabbi who lived from 70BC to 9 BC. He was apparently crucified at some point, charged with being a thief.
Prior to that there was a man by the name of Rabbi Hallel who apparently died in 100BC. Rabbi Hallel was called "The Great Teacher". Many Christians are led to believe that a man named Jesus was called this, when in fact it was Rabbi Hallel. Now, what happened was that the New Testament composite character of "Jesus The Christ" was created by the Council of Nicea.
Most of the words that are attributed to this composite character, referred to colloquially as "Jesus", were in fact spoken by Apollonius of Tyana, who the Bible calls "Paul of Tarsus". Because Rome had their armies scattered all over the place and all these wars were over the subject of religion, what the Council of Nicea decided to do is essentially create a "State Religion".
So, what they did was combine the religions of the east and the west, both of which were concerned with Sun worship. Those in the West worshipped Hesos, also called Hess. Those in the East that worshipped the Sun worshipped Krishna, which in Greek is called Kristos. The very first "Bible" that was put together in 325AD.
They took some books that Apollonius of Tyana had brought back from Burma, called the Codes of the Initiates (which concerned themselves with man's relationship to the seasons, among other things) containing lessons that were handed down to those particular Holy Men in India during that particular period in history. The Codes of the Initiates allegedly contained words that were spoken by Krishna. The very first "Bible" was called the Helios Biblios, which means "The Sun Book". This is what they did in the very beginning.
Q: When was the Helios Biblios assembled?
A: Between 324 and 355 AD, by the Council of Nicea under Emperor Constantine The Great. Then they slowly developed a "God", a personage, to replace the Sun, and slowly changed the books, disposing of the material detailing reincarnation and many of the other teachings. They changed meanings, and every scribe that worked on this thing kept changing things as belief systems were revised with the prevailing times.
Q: How about things ascribed to the historical "Jesus" such as the Sermon on the Mount?
A: The exact words ascribed to the historical "Jesus" with reference to the Sermon on the Mount were found in a Turkish museum, authored by a Greek Senator in 64 AD. The Church went out a gathered all the information they could at various times in history, and they suppressed what they didn't agree with or what they didn't want the people to know.
Q: Then, who was the healer in this whole scenario?
A: That was Apollonius of Tyana, who the Catholic Church referred to as the "Anti-Christ", despite the fact that he was also known as Paul of Tarsus, mainly because he encouraged rebellion against Roman tyranny.
Q: And Yeshua Ben Joseph?
A: From what I understand, he was of the royal line, but he tried to create rebellion against Roman tyranny as well. Now, there was also another Yeshua.
Q: Another Yeshua?
A: Yes. It was a very common name than in Judea. He was a rabbi who was also a rebel, of sorts. He died at Massada in 64 AD, and his presence at Massada was why Massada was attacked. His name was Yeshua Malathiel. The bottom line is there was no "Jesus Christ" in history at all. It was a composite character, and history reveals this fact.
Q: Now, Robert Morning Sky revealed that the specific crucifixion that involved a Yeshua was a mock crucifixion, in that the person did not really die, because he was given an herbal mixture to simulate death, and that Bar Abbas was in fact the son of the Yeshua concerned here.
A: Yes, if you take the name Bar Abbas, which is a two-word name (not Barrabas, as in the Biblical product of the Roman Church), and you go back to the ancient Hebrew, it means "Son of the Teacher" or "Son of the Master".
Q: So whose son was Bar Abbas?
A: Yeshua Melethiel.
Q: His son.
A: Yes, and from that grew the lineage in France.
Q: The lineage in France? That is where Alex Christopher's book Pandora's Box picks the trail up. The so-called "bloodline of Christ" that related to the mission of the Templars.
A: That's right. It related not to Yeshua (Jesus) Malathiel himself, who died at Massada in 64 AD, but to his son, Bar Abbas, who survived and went to France.
Q: This is also connected with the "blue-bloods" and extraterrestrial genetics?
A: That's exactly right.
Q: So Yeshua Malathiel was a "blue-blood"?
A: Yes, he was, and he was connected to the House of David, and if you go all the way back through the line, through David, and you get to Moses, who was a human-extraterrestrial "half-breed".
Q: So, was it Yeshua Malathiel who was involved in the "cross scenario"?
A: I don't know for sure. The only place I have heard of the story that Robert is talking about is from a book called Crucifixion By An Eyewitness (which does not at all imply that Robert got his data from that book, just that the book mentions it)
But, the Essenes were herbalists and knew how to mix potions and knew about this kind of thing. Of course, the real secrets about all of this lie in the Dead Sea Scrolls.
Q: Which the Israeli government have locked up, or at least most of them, and will only let a few select people see a few of them.
A: Yes, by the Israeli's and the Roman Church, because what the Dead Sea Scrolls show, according to the Andromedans, are that "Christianity" and "Judaism" were really one thing, one religion, and they also tell the true story of who Yeshua was, as we have spoken about here.
Q: Yeshua Malathiel?
A: Right. Rabbi Wise in the 1950's and 1960's did an extensive study of the death warrants and death certificates of those who were crucified during that time period, as the Romans kept records, and the only Yeshua listed as being crucified was a man coincidentally named Yeshua Malathiel, who was listed as a traitor and a thief. Mary of the house of Magdelana was the wife of Yeshua Malathiel.
She came from a very well-to-do family who raised doves for sacrifices put on by the Pharisees at the temples. I think the book Holy Grail talks a little about that, too. The Jewish tradition was at that time that any man 13 years of age, who was a rabbi, must take a wife and have children. That was the law.
Q: How did the crucifixion scenario arise with Yeshua Malathiel and his son, Bar Abbas?
A: Well, the story behind that is that they took Bar Abbas because they knew that the father, Yeshua, would come after his son. The story goes on to say that a ransom was paid, and they did a "mock" crucifixion in order to hide the fact of a payoff to the Romans.
Malathiel did not leave the area. He continued to do what he did and died at Massada. There is apparently a scroll which is in the possession of the Russians that proves this, and the son, Bar Abbas, was escorted to France with the rest of the family.
Q: So, presuming that somewhere along the line Christians or Jews would read this material, what would you say to them if they feel concerned by it?
A: Well, all I would say is that true history does not support the idea or the proof that a "Jesus Christ" lived. It does prove that Apollonius of Tyana was real, and the other thing I would say is, "you've been duped". There is no middle man between you and the Creator, and your relationship is directly with the Creator.
Q: Of course, this is why Gnosticism has been so suppressed throughout history.
A: Yes. These "churches" exist only because people "believe in them" and support them financially. If you take that away and say, "my relationship is with the Creator, I don't need a middle man", then "there is no need for you." Let's face it, the church is politics and a form of government.
The Andromedans share very much the same viewpoint as some of the Pleaidian groups - that all religions on our planet are forms of government, and they don't see any difference between government and politics (power-brokering), in their perspective. I mean, people used to have to pay priests in order to "assure their place in heaven".
Q: Are there any religious systems on this planet that are at all beneficial?
A: There are two religious systems they say have been beneficial, and they were the original form of Buddhism and the original form of Shinto. All the other stuff is designed to hold you back and control you. That is their perception.
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