Ancient Confession Found: 'We Invented Jesus Christ"

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PostThu Oct 10, 2013 12:50 pm » by Phoenix rising


Ancient Confession Found: 'We Invented Jesus Christ"

I hope its not blasphemous posting this :peep: :lol:


Jesus Christ: completely constructed from other stories for an ancient Roman propaganda campaign?
[Jesus Christ] may be the only fictional character in literature whose entire life story can be traced to other sources.

American Biblical scholar Joseph Atwill will be appearing before the British public for the first time in London on the 19th of October to present a controversial new discovery: ancient confessions recently uncovered now prove, according to Atwill, that the New Testament was written by first-century Roman aristocrats and that they fabricated the entire story of Jesus Christ. His presentation will be part of a one-day symposium entitled "Covert Messiah" at Conway Hall in Holborn (full details can be found at http://www.covertmessiah.com).

Although to many scholars his theory seems outlandish, and is sure to upset some believers, Atwill regards his evidence as conclusive and is confident its acceptance is only a matter of time. "I present my work with some ambivalence, as I do not want to directly cause Christians any harm," he acknowledges, "but this is important for our culture. Alert citizens need to know the truth about our past so we can understand how and why governments create false histories and false gods. They often do it to obtain a social order that is against the best interests of the common people."

Atwill asserts that Christianity did not really begin as a religion, but a sophisticated government project, a kind of propaganda exercise used to pacify the subjects of the Roman Empire. "Jewish sects in Palestine at the time, who were waiting for a prophesied warrior Messiah, were a constant source of violent insurrection during the first century," he explains. "When the Romans had exhausted conventional means of quashing rebellion, they switched to psychological warfare. They surmised that the way to stop the spread of zealous Jewish missionary activity was to create a competing belief system. That's when the 'peaceful' Messiah story was invented. Instead of inspiring warfare, this Messiah urged turn-the-other-cheek pacifism and encouraged Jews to 'give onto Caesar' and pay their taxes to Rome."

Was Jesus based on a real person from history? "The short answer is no," Atwill insists, "in fact he may be the only fictional character in literature whose entire life story can be traced to other sources. Once those sources are all laid bare, there's simply nothing left."

Atwill's most intriguing discovery came to him while he was studying "Wars of the Jews" by Josephus [the only surviving first-person historical account of first-century Judea] alongside the New Testament. "I started to notice a sequence of parallels between the two texts," he recounts. "Although it's been recognised by Christian scholars for centuries that the prophesies of Jesus appear to be fulfilled by what Josephus wrote about in the First Jewish-Roman war, I was seeing dozens more. What seems to have eluded many scholars is that the sequence of events and locations of Jesus ministry are more or less the same as the sequence of events and locations of the military campaign of [Emperor] Titus Flavius as described by Josephus. This is clear evidence of a deliberately constructed pattern. The biography of Jesus is actually constructed, tip to stern, on prior stories, but especially on the biography of a Roman Caesar."

How could this go unnoticed in the most scrutinised books of all time? "Many of the parallels are conceptual or poetic, so they aren't all immediately obvious. After all, the authors did not want the average believer to see what they were doing, but they did want the alert reader to see it. An educated Roman in the ruling class would probably have recognised the literary game being played." Atwill maintains he can demonstrate that "the Roman Caesars left us a kind of puzzle literature that was meant to be solved by future generations, and the solution to that puzzle is 'We invented Jesus Christ, and we're proud of it.'"

Is this the beginning of the end of Christianity? "Probably not," grants Atwill, "but what my work has done is give permission to many of those ready to leave the religion to make a clean break. We've got the evidence now to show exactly where the story of Jesus came from. Although Christianity can be a comfort to some, it can also be very damaging and repressive, an insidious form of mind control that has led to blind acceptance of serfdom, poverty, and war throughout history. To this day, especially in the United States, it is used to create support for war in the Middle East."

Atwill encourages skeptics to challenge him at Conway Hall, where after the presentations there is likely to be a lively Q&A session. Joining Mr.Atwill will be fellow scholar Kenneth Humphreys, author of the book "Jesus Never Existed."


http://uk.prweb.com/releases/2013/10/prweb11201273.htm
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PostThu Oct 10, 2013 5:55 pm » by Temps13


Thanks Phoenix
Apparently Jesus (Hebrew-Yehu-shu'ah) means 'Yahweh saves'
Read something about a king called Jesus or something with a crown with sticky out bits..maybe he was like,an amalgamation of things,including the desire from the people on Earth at that time for the god's to return..so that they just thought 'fck it' & preggered up some Earth chick in Vitro style..'Here ya go'..
Some people even say he's alive & in some sort of command position until the end of the age of Pisces..
So many possibilities.. :think:
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PostThu Oct 10, 2013 10:28 pm » by Truthdefender


Mr. Atwill is just like all the other amateur-Scholar-wannabes who refuse to put in the time and effort to earn a degree in the field, who want to advance their pet theories to sell books and dupe you over. He relies on popular media and the ignorance of the layperson to score points rather than publishing in a credible academic journal or publishing academically. He knows he can’t do that, because he has no clue how academics work, how they think, or what they actually argue on the subject. He might as well claim that Jesus lived on Atlantis, which came from Mars. That theory is about as ridiculous as the notion that Rome invented Jesus.

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http://tomverenna.wordpress.com/2012/09 ... ent-jesus/


◦One also wonders why in the world Titus would care to start a new religion for Jews that he had already soundly beaten on the battlefield. One also wonders how and why a mission to the Gentiles got started; indeed, why Titus would allow his own "Frankenstein's monster" to get loose onto persons with whom he had no problems of loyalty.
◦Even more problematic for Atwill is what is said by Roman writers whose works he ignores. Tacitus' comment in Annals 15.44 places the origins of Christianity, and Roman reaction to it, nearly a decade before Titus' final victory. Atwill says nothing at all about this critical passage; nor does he mention Pliny's letter to Trajan asking what to do about Christians

http://www.tektonics.org/books/csmessrvw.html


P.S. The Christians were around before the Flavians:

It is uncertain who or what actually caused the fire — whether accident or arson. According to Tacitus, some in the population held Nero responsible, as soon after he built himself a huge house in the center of Rome called the "Golden House".[14] To diffuse blame, Nero targeted the Christians.[14] There were Christians who confessed to the crime, but it became known that Christians were forced to confess by means of torture,[14] and the passage is unclear as to what the Christians confessed to — being arsonists or Christians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Fire ... bliography
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PostFri Oct 11, 2013 12:17 am » by astrodemigod


Truthdefender wrote:Mr. Atwill is just like all the other amateur-Scholar-wannabes who refuse to put in the time and effort to earn a degree in the field, who want to advance their pet theories to sell books and dupe you over. He relies on popular media and the ignorance of the layperson to score points rather than publishing in a credible academic journal or publishing academically. He knows he can’t do that, because he has no clue how academics work, how they think, or what they actually argue on the subject. He might as well claim that Jesus lived on Atlantis, which came from Mars. That theory is about as ridiculous as the notion that Rome invented Jesus.


Interesting because you have seen the evidence right? I'm usually the kind of person who likes to read BEFORE I speak r post about a subject.


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http://tomverenna.wordpress.com/2012/09 ... ent-jesus/


◦One also wonders why in the world Titus would care to start a new religion for Jews that he had already soundly beaten on the battlefield. One also wonders how and why a mission to the Gentiles got started; indeed, why Titus would allow his own "Frankenstein's monster" to get loose onto persons with whom he had no problems of loyalty.
◦Even more problematic for Atwill is what is said by Roman writers whose works he ignores. Tacitus' comment in Annals 15.44 places the origins of Christianity, and Roman reaction to it, nearly a decade before Titus' final victory. Atwill says nothing at all about this critical passage; nor does he mention Pliny's letter to Trajan asking what to do about Christians

http://www.tektonics.org/books/csmessrvw.html



P.S. The Christians were around before the Flavians:

It is uncertain who or what actually caused the fire — whether accident or arson. According to Tacitus, some in the population held Nero responsible, as soon after he built himself a huge house in the center of Rome called the "Golden House".[14] To diffuse blame, Nero targeted the Christians.[14] There were Christians who confessed to the crime, but it became known that Christians were forced to confess by means of torture,[14] and the passage is unclear as to what the Christians confessed to — being arsonists or Christians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Fire ... bliography


Tacitus really? That's funny, this guy obviously didn't read up on the fact that his work had been altered to be apologist.

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PostFri Oct 11, 2013 12:50 am » by Truthdefender


Tacitus really? That's funny, this guy obviously didn't read up on the fact that his work had been altered to be apologist.


There are quite a number of misleading statements about this subject circulating on the internet, including the curious idea that Tacitus was forged in the 15th century by Poggio Bracciolini. This page has been written to place the facts at the disposal of those interested, and references to more information. The intended audience is the interested layman. All this material is derived from the sources listed.

I've also added a short paragraph on the allegations that Tacitus' works were forged:

http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/tacitus/
\

Wikipedia is no friend of the Christians, however:

The Roman historian and senator Tacitus referred to Christ, his execution by Pontius Pilate and the existence of early Christians in Rome in his final work, Annals (written ca. AD 116), book 15, chapter 44.[1]

The context of the passage is the six-day Great Fire of Rome that burned much of the city in AD 64 during the reign of Roman Emperor Nero.[2] The passage is one of the earliest non-Christian references to the origins of Christianity, the execution of Christ described in the Canonical gospels, and the presence and persecution of Christians in 1st-century Rome.[3][4]

Scholars generally consider Tacitus's reference to the execution of Jesus by Pontius Pilate to be both authentic, and of historical value as an independent Roman source.[5][6][7] Eddy and Boyd state that it is now "firmly established" that Tacitus provides a non-Christian confirmation of the crucifixion of Jesus.[8]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ

Is this a genuine reference, or are there doubts about its veracity?

Very few would assert that this passage is a forgery [though see Cutn.JGMM, 111-2], for the evidence is strongly in favor of the genuineness of this passage. The passage is in perfect Tacitean style; it appears in every known copy of the Annals (although there are very few copies of it, and none dates earlier than the 11th century), and the anti-Christian tone is so strong that it is extremely unlikely that a Christian could have written it.

Indeed, the Tacitean polemic against Christianity is so strong that it was one of two things Tacitus was condemned for in the sixteenth century - the other being that he wrote in bad Latin [Dor.Tac, 149], and it is even said that Spinoza liked Tacitus because of his anti-Jewish and anti-Christian bias [Momig.CFou, 126].

This is not to say that there are not those whom we may encounter who will suggest that this passage is an interpolation. Some will suggest that because no church father quotes the passage early in church history, it must have been added later.

No church father, however, would have willingly quoted such a negative reference to Jesus and the Christians; moreover, indications are that Tacitus wrote for a very limited audience of his peers. The Annals may not have gotten into the Church's hands at an early date.

So, the idea that this passage is an interpolation is no more credible than the idea held in the 19th century that Tacitus' entire works are fifteenth-century forgeries.
http://www.tektonics.org/jesusexist/tacitus.html
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PostFri Oct 11, 2013 1:49 am » by astrodemigod


But, the question remains, how can you cite anything from KNOWN APOLOGIST sources?

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PostFri Oct 11, 2013 8:41 am » by Svaha


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PostFri Oct 11, 2013 10:15 am » by Jesuschrist


I know I'm not around that much but isn't this taking it a bit to far? :hmmm:

:owned:

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PostFri Oct 11, 2013 10:22 am » by Seahawk


Jesuschrist wrote:I know I'm not around that much but isn't this taking it a bit to far? :hmmm:

:owned:


Lol. I was wondering if you might show up. :flop:

Oh, and since you're here, do you really have a middle name, and does it begin with an H.?

Amen.

:cheers:


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PostFri Oct 11, 2013 10:52 am » by DarkHeart


Seahawk wrote:
Jesuschrist wrote:I know I'm not around that much but isn't this taking it a bit to far? :hmmm:

:owned:


Lol. I was wondering if you might show up. :flop:

Oh, and since you're here, do you really have a middle name, and does it begin with an H.?

Amen.

:cheers:


Thank goodness we are jumping straight into the important questions, I am tempted to ask about tap dancing but have this overwhelming fear of thunderbolts.

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