Are we really this stupid???

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PostTue Sep 01, 2009 8:11 am » by domdabears


I got this email. Thought I'd share it.

OH! Now I understand!!!

You think the war in Iraq/Afganistan is costing us too much?


Boy, was I confused. I have been hammered with the propaganda that it is the Iraq war and the war on terror that is bankrupting us. I now find that to be RIDICULOUS.

1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments. Verify at: http://tinyurl.com/zob77

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens. Verify at: http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!

Verify at:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... dt.0..html

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies..

Verify at http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... dt.01.html

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... t..01.html

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... dt.01.html

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the Americantaxpayers.

Verify at: http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html

9. $200 Billion dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... t..01.html

10 The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white-non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US .

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... t..01.html

11 During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U.S. from the Southern border...

Verify at: Homeland Security Report: http://tinyurl.com/t9sht

12 The National policy Institute, estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41and $46 billion annually over a five year period.'

Verify at: http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/ ... tation.pdf

13 In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances to their countries of origin.

Verify at: http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm

14 'The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One million sex crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States.'

Verify at: http:///www.drdsk.com/articleshtml

The total cost is a whopping $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.

Are we THAT stupid?

WE are not that stupid but our LEGISLATORS are! They continue to ignore the will of the people!
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PostTue Sep 01, 2009 8:20 am » by Hesop


Good post!
Thanks!
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PostTue Sep 01, 2009 8:37 am » by Strider


Hmm "200 billion in suppressed wages" is the largest component of that - the reference leads to "page not found".

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PostTue Sep 01, 2009 8:38 am » by Lordgaga


hesop wrote:Good post!
Thanks!


Hi Hesop, you look very alien today!! Since you live in NM, how is the situation with illegal immigrants over there ?

Here in Europe we have big troubles with illegal immigrants from the Middle East. This is
not racism, but we cant help them all. Cheers!
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PostTue Sep 01, 2009 8:41 am » by domdabears


strider wrote:Hmm "200 billion in suppressed wages" is the largest component of that - the reference leads to "page not found".

Hmm
It sure was once there.
The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.
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PostTue Sep 01, 2009 9:10 am » by Lowsix


Man this one is so deep and wide..
GREAT GREAT post by the way..should open an interesting debate..
But it brings up some damn tricky questions, if we are all being honest with ourselves.
SOme of those questions are thrown back as cliches, but when theyre examined the counter to kicking everyone out, is pretty solid too..bear with me..

Ok, as you read what im saying, any of you, realize that im basically a conservative type. Not a neocon Type at all..rather the conservatives i know, think im a liberal. Ridiculous..so when i put this out there, im not saying it to diminish those numbers, but like i said...being from new mexico, hearing the popular conservative line somewhat ranting about Illegals, ive made efforts to get to the bottom of what the real truth was.

Now its been some time, and i dont have all the numbers and links right here, so those of you that know me, can take a small leap of faith and trust me a little..matter of fact, its the only choice you got, or dismiss me altogether, which is fine too..BUT...

Ive been down this research road,
and it leads to some VERY complex math.

Unpopular math, and unpopular conclusions..
and some complex moral decisions, that make it easier to shock and awe with the upfront brutality of some of those sums, than it is to really get into whats behind some of it, and what sending everyone home would really mean.


(some of this, are MILD generalizations, but some are truly valid counters and constitute the OTHER side of the coin in the immigration issue..I have not firmly come to ANY hard conclusions..its just tricky..thats all im saying..nothing more nothing less)

Sending everyone Home, The Aftermath:

Yes, Prison population 30% reduction..on the mark.
Yes, Health Care savings..but this number is misleading.
Yes educational savings, also somewhat misleading, but mostly true.

Heres the real problem:

The Hospitality Industry Collapses.
The Restaurant Industry Collapses.
Agriculture Collapses.
Construction Collapses.

Particularly now, with lending at a standstill...the four sectors above WOULD collapse..with a stronger economy, it would not collapse but would be fatally crippled.
If we sent everyne home, Those four sectors could NOT raise the capital it would take to remain viable. With Wages, Insurance, and Liability. HUGE HUGE HUGE numbers im talking about here..

Those sectors rely EXCLUSIVELY on low LOW wage labor to remain profitable.
They rely n the nature f the undocumented NOT to unionize, and not to deman insurance, which americans would.

Most are uninsured workers (true they cost on the backend, but that is the price to pay for industry not being able to afford it on the front end..its WHY there is a demand for them---they are not stealing anything, they are being courted, invited and sought)

Now THIS part of the argument is perhaps a little less SHARP than it was before the economy tanked, becuase now some workers WOULD welcome these jobs, whereas before they would not, so im going to use the model in place last year..before the crash.

It is a fact that American labor will NOT work for four to six dollars an hour, without insurance, which does four things:

Makes RESTAURANTS profitable, even in tougher areas. $3-8/hr instead of $7-12+
Makes CONSTRUCTION profitable. $6-12 /hr instead of $18-28
Supports the Hospitality industry at least int he maintenance and Housekeeping sectors. $6-8 instead of $7-12
AGRICULTURE is almost ENTIRELY supported by it, particularly in Florida and California and New Mexico and Texas(as is the Cotton and Textile Industries)
..$12 heads of lettuce anyone? Apples @$14/lb? I dont think so..

Its less that americans WOULDNT do that work,
than they wouldnt be attracted to it.
(so in essense, no , they wouldnt do it)

And this , from what i remember contributes to a nearly 40%-50% offset from the total of Doms numbers, when everything is figured together. What studies like that NEVER show, is the reverse contributions in offset Labor costs..which is MUCH more simplified than the argument "Well, whites wouldnt do the work"..but in fact, it IS the correct argument, becuase it IS true... Americans will NOT work the same hours, conditions, salaries and living conditions that Illegals will, no matter who says they will..

Business in all four sectors CANNOT AFFORD to pay americans to do that work EVEN if they could attract them, which they couldnt (easier now than in the past, but still HUGE numbers of unfilled labor positions in those four industries..

(ok, the counter to THAT, is, that times are hitting the SHITTER, and so now some americans WOULD actually take those positions, but even so, not at the exact same wages..there is no doubt..)

An intersting Documentary, done with a sense of Humor, and very well put together was called "A Day Without A MExican"..and it dealt with some of these cost offset issues. Butgroups putting out the immigration fear, need to get more honest int he approach and INCLUDE some of these offset benefits so that people CAN see that in fAct, Immigration plays HUGE part in our economy, FAR moe so than the Drain attributed to them..and not in just a cliche manner, but a real, statistical manner..there is a FACTUAL OFFSET, which in final analysis might give people pause to the "Send Em Home" Sentiment. They do far more for this economy than they will EvER get credit for, for the simple reason that its much easier to focus on the bad, and NOT focus on the Built in Price contrls we get to take advantage of (and our industries RELY on) when emloying them..and recogniztion of what WOULD happen to certain production costs without them..(NONE of those are popular conclusions to reach, much less state formally, but VERY true)

(ok, not so for criminal activity and some of those sorts of things, but overall impacts..not so black and white)

Anyhow, great Topic..and Ill try my best to round up some numbers so youre not completely being asked to take me at my word, but if you think it through, im right on a lot of points..very right in fact..and its starts to get sticky and uncomforatble in the final audit of Cause/Effect..

And by 200 billion in suppressed wages
..what that means is..actually..200Billion the industries cannot afford to pay as it is..so iimagine placing a $200 Billion TAX on them overnight...what would THAT do to the industries? WHich is what would happen if they had to send everyone home, and hire americans..with wage protection unions and health insurance..ker-blooie..would be the sound of a thousand restaurants, farms, hotel/motels and construction companies folding all at once.. for real.
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PostTue Sep 01, 2009 9:23 am » by Torofamily


Capitol Hill is to busy taking care of special interest and big corporation to care. I'm sure they know this infomation but also know the zombie's are way to busy paying attention to Britney Speer's, Paris Hilton and the Simpson's. Don't believe in mind control?

What can i do to create change?
Sadly I think anything now would just be to little to late.
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PostTue Sep 01, 2009 9:34 am » by Torofamily


domdabears wrote:Are we THAT stupid?

WE are not that stupid but our LEGISLATORS are! They continue to ignore the will of the people!



sorry to admit it but i think most of us are,
at least most of the people i see going about their daily lives
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PostTue Sep 01, 2009 9:36 am » by Hesop


OK Low, you just confused me. So, if you could help clear this up.

It is well known America is dependent on cheap imported labor in several fields.
However, my confusion here is the combining of your post, with Doms, in the effect that Doms specifies illegal aliens. Then, lending the assumption that we could retain the legal ones for the service necessary and not suffer the losses. Is your info centered in on illegals as well? Leaving out legal card holders? That would imply that there are some pretty good numbers, involving the industries supportive stance on illegal labor as well.

Not questioning your research, just clarification in wording.

lordgaga wrote:
hesop wrote:Good post!
Thanks!


Hi Hesop, you look very alien today!! Since you live in NM, how is the situation with illegal immigrants over there ?

Here in Europe we have big troubles with illegal immigrants from the Middle East. This is
not racism, but we cant help them all. Cheers!

Where I live ,LG, I can see them every day. What we don't know, is if they are legal or not. But by their clothes you can tell they just came across the border though. That is usually the first thing they do, is buy newer clothes. K-mart gets them in every day. Then, they quickly blend in with the large Spanish community here, that has been here for generations.
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PostTue Sep 01, 2009 9:38 am » by Lowsix


oh shit ya know..great point..
in fact I must be honest to say i am not entirely sure...

The only term that stuck out for SURE, was Non Residents..
which could certainly imply legal, documented but non resident workers.

My apologies, i will try to find clarification..for sure.
HUGE point.

Thanks.

Edit**
The detail that for me that makes the case that it may have been referring to Illegals, was the report mentioning the INABILITY to make appeals to Workforce commissions for working conditions and wages, and hours whereas (as is my understanding) LEGAL , documented non resident workers MAY do..They are afforded similar(if not identical rights) to residents.. All working on foggy old memory, of course, liable to be wrong on any account, but that seems how i remember it..making the point that they could NOT appeal their wages ..
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