Congratulations USA. Welcome to the wide world of SOCIALISM

jetxvii

PostSat Mar 27, 2010 12:06 am » by jetxvii


mushroom wrote:
I did however review the last part of your statements, and I agree everyone should have the right to health-care but why should I have to pay for it when a poor, lazy, uneducated, fat un-healthy person isn't paying for it?


I take from what I've read on other posts that you are quite young. Life has twists and turns and although you might feel rather privileged at this moment in time, that will not always be the case. Life can be humbling and your complete outlook can change with one event.

I completely disagree with you. Fat lazy dipshits have the same human rights as everyone else.. including health care!

If you pay taxes, you are paying a corrupt government to live the high life and at the same time you are whining about providing health care for the poor. Oxymoron comes to mind.

PS.. It's not a personal attack. I quite like your opinions on most subjects (but not this one!)


So a fat lazy unemployed person that pays taxes from there welfare checks gets the right to get something that people that work hard can get?

ok that makes sense, hooray for socialism..

who cares how old I am that has no relevance to what is right compared to band-aiding it.

and it's not an oxymoron when an established people and a supposed to be established government can provide a better standard for living, like I said before you and most people here are mistaking "the right way to free / affordable healthcare , vs a diaper change job of health-care, but you won't realize that because you people are too arrogant to have another thought about it...

the same could be said about lower end countries, they are responsible for themselves and their lives to establish a better way of life through means of "revolution" or relocation.. you know the ability to change things yourself? but nope it has to be the government job.... lets bitch about the government all day when they oppress people, kill people, stage false terror attacks, rob you of your house, job, money, children, freedom.... but then "hey they want to "tax" us for health-care because they want to help "us" instead of "I" and it's a good thing?

hmmmmmmm.....

if anyone failed to see where I said i am done with this then perhaps you can see it here:

I AM DONE WITH THIS, THERE IS NO POINT IN DESCRIBING THIS TO PEOPLE THAT CAN NOT WORK TO CHANGE THINGS THEMSELVES AND HAVE THE LIBERTY OF MAKING THE GOVERNMENT WHO CORRUPTS EVERYTHING ELSE DO IT FOR THEM...

Thank you all and have a pleasant day, I will be rooting for the lawsuits against this, I will also be happy when 2012 comes around and we don't have to worry about socialism anymore..... we will only have to worry about a communism which is essentially what you are all excepting..

one for all and all for one, unless one of your swordsmen doesn't have a sword and doesn't help you fight....... but yes we should still bring him to battle, he will be a good asset.

if you want to be a lazy and "everyone should take care of me bum" then you don't deserve any help as you can't even help yourself.....PERIOD!

I am done, because I keep repeating my points that some of you people seem to be bypassing and disregarding over things I have already addressed and pointed out as flaws, but you still refuse to see them...


I take from what I've read on other posts that you are quite young. Life has twists and turns and although you might feel rather privileged at this moment in time, that will not always be the case. Life can be humbling and your complete outlook can change with one event.


Yes like 9/11 you know what that taught me, the government doesn't care about you, don't trust anyone but yourself and your own capabilities, and if the government wants to do something that includes everyone it means something is in it for them.

I completely disagree with you. Fat lazy dipshits have the same human rights as everyone else.. including health care!


No, Fat, Lazy, Un-healthy, Un-educated, un-employed people..

"Human Rights?"

you are born

and you die.

that is a human right, if you choose to extend or optimize your life that is a choice, not a GOD given human right. Cancer or not you will die and prevention of death is a "service"

Like an Oil change for your car.

and in some countries you have the right to be free.... so what is free about a taxing health-care?

If you pay taxes, you are paying a corrupt government to live the high life and at the same time you are whining about providing health care for the poor. Oxymoron comes to mind.


if you are paying taxes at a state level that is written in the constitution it is usually for a service, so I agree with you there. who is whining the only whining I see here is people that don't think hard enough about how they are being taken advantage of and whine about other people that don't accept a form of control over there own hard earned resources, now that sounds like whining.

jetxvii

PostSat Mar 27, 2010 12:09 am » by jetxvii


krysto wrote:finally , I mean for me , when my mother died before thirty after my father lost his home trying to save her (after a layoff { Reaganomics}) This was my 9/11 . The poor should just die ? c'mon repubs wtf?


I'm sorry for your loss but everyone lives and dies, the extension is of choice not right.

another reason you shouldn't like Gov. run health-care was your statement of your father losing his job because of the government. so you are relying on the same form of government to protect "you" now when they couldn't protect your fathers job to save your mother?

once again sorry about your mom just don't understand that...

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PostMon Mar 29, 2010 10:50 am » by Nickelson


I mean no disrespect Nickleson and in fact I wasn't the one to disrespect anyone on this thread except Ziggy. The only reason I wrote anything to counter anything you foreigners said is because I saw people from outside our country talking about how this is a good thing when they know nothing of our true policies, and the fact that you were the first one to disrespect anyone from the USA that didn't support this as "USsies" meaning pussies....

or did you forget that already?

now who is disrespectful?

and how are we pussies when we don't want our diaper changed for us? that doesn't seem to make sense.


I was away for the weekend so didn't have the change to react sooner on this reply.

For the record I wasn't disrespectful to anyone. USsies I really mean US citizens. You comparison to Pussies I do like I must add, but that wasn't my intention at all.

For the rest I read you reply and you conclude very easily I don't know shit about your country and you constitution in that case I also must correct you, because you are wrong on that matter.

My discussion with you ends, when you admit you are not willing to pay for anyone who is less then you.

I did however review the last part of your statements, and I agree everyone should have the right to health-care but why should I have to pay for it when a poor, lazy, uneducated, fat un-healthy person isn't paying for it?


Your point of view on which you take those "incompetent" responsible for their own "mistakes" Just says is it all for me.

And I am sorry for your loss and that is disrespectful Jet. It's just how your point of view is on that matter and yours is really selfish, harsh and ignorant. I am sorry for that, but that is the truth as I see it.

I could go on and on, on this, but I really don't feel like it anymore. It really is sad man and you should be ashamed for just that one opinion.

I would like to see you again in other discussions, but for me this one ends right here.
:flop:

jetxvii

PostMon Mar 29, 2010 8:56 pm » by jetxvii


nickelson wrote:
I mean no disrespect Nickleson and in fact I wasn't the one to disrespect anyone on this thread except Ziggy. The only reason I wrote anything to counter anything you foreigners said is because I saw people from outside our country talking about how this is a good thing when they know nothing of our true policies, and the fact that you were the first one to disrespect anyone from the USA that didn't support this as "USsies" meaning pussies....

or did you forget that already?

now who is disrespectful?

and how are we pussies when we don't want our diaper changed for us? that doesn't seem to make sense.


I was away for the weekend so didn't have the change to react sooner on this reply.

For the record I wasn't disrespectful to anyone. USsies I really mean US citizens. You comparison to Pussies I do like I must add, but that wasn't my intention at all.

For the rest I read you reply and you conclude very easily I don't know shit about your country and you constitution in that case I also must correct you, because you are wrong on that matter.

My discussion with you ends, when you admit you are not willing to pay for anyone who is less then you.

I did however review the last part of your statements, and I agree everyone should have the right to health-care but why should I have to pay for it when a poor, lazy, uneducated, fat un-healthy person isn't paying for it?


Your point of view on which you take those "incompetent" responsible for their own "mistakes" Just says is it all for me.

And I am sorry for your loss and that is disrespectful Jet. It's just how your point of view is on that matter and yours is really selfish, harsh and ignorant. I am sorry for that, but that is the truth as I see it.

I could go on and on, on this, but I really don't feel like it anymore. It really is sad man and you should be ashamed for just that one opinion.

I would like to see you again in other discussions, but for me this one ends right here.
:flop:


Nickelson I have explained in everything I wrote to you, it is not the fact that I don't want to pay for someone, actually it is because I have to worry about what is me and mine (my own life and family and that is enough I am not responsible for someone half way across the country that I don't even know, however if they needed help medically I would surely be happy to donate, which is basically what this bill is about they want mandatory donations, when I should have the choice to help.)

however that wasn't my point so don't make me out to be a bad guy.

but you are confusing with the way 90% of the governments across the world have ushered in universal health-care as "the only and right way" compared to addressing it the "right way". which is my issue, which is why I asked if you read the constitution, because if you did read it and understand it you would realize that the way to usher in health-care and make it affordable would be best done if done through and American Constitutional way.... yes that even means that it would trump your glorious health-care and everyone Else's perfect models of health-care because technically written by our form of law (constitution) we are alot more free than your countries and we also are supposed to have more rational, working legal system to put that into place and strike down the monopolies....

but you misunderstood that again, and I am pretty sure you meant to call us pussies, but besides that issue.

NO i wouldn't pay for someone who doesn't work, is fat, unhealthy (because they made themselves that way)....why you might ask? because if they are going to base this bill on a law and working of economics and taxation, then you are damn right I don't want to pay for anyone that they themselves put into that situation to be that way, they aren't giving anything back, they aren't giving themselves anything either, they are rotting their lives.

you are the one that said they are "less of a person" not me, I consider them economic failures that can live in my country and be free to do what they want, but if they want a handout for doing nothing that defeats the purpose for everyone to not work, or go to school then, because it seems like that individual is the smart one and figured out he could be the healthiest and most free person by doing "nothing". I think they have a legal term for those people they call them looters, but now we are paying for looters, and the other good wholesome people that can't work (because of the government) to put the same government in power to fix something they caused in the first place and blah blah blah... I realize this is where I stop again because it's all the same text I have typed several times before...

so there you have it I refuse to pay for anyone besides myself and my family and that is how it should be for everyone and all because truly that is all they should have to be worried about, and if that is not the case and you feel the need to worry about more people, then perhaps you can donate your money medically to help that person and not pass a mandatory bill requiring everyone to feel the same way about an issue and making them a bad guy if they don't feel the same way...

because like I said I have no problems for voluntary donations to the right people.

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PostMon Mar 29, 2010 9:18 pm » by Ghymmie


Nickelson I have explained in everything I wrote to you, it is not the fact that I don't want to pay for someone, actually it is because I have to worry about what is me and mine (my own life and family and that is enough I am not responsible for someone half way across the country that I don't even know, however if they needed help medically I would surely be happy to donate, which is basically what this bill is about they want mandatory donations, when I should have the choice to help.)

however that wasn't my point so don't make me out to be a bad guy.

but you are confusing with the way 90% of the governments across the world have ushered in universal health-care as "the only and right way" compared to addressing it the "right way". which is my issue, which is why I asked if you read the constitution, because if you did read it and understand it you would realize that the way to usher in health-care and make it affordable would be best done if done through and American Constitutional way.... yes that even means that it would trump your glorious health-care and everyone Else's perfect models of health-care because technically written by our form of law (constitution) we are alot more free than your countries and we also are supposed to have more rational, working legal system to put that into place and strike down the monopolies....

but you misunderstood that again, and I am pretty sure you meant to call us pussies, but besides that issue.

NO i wouldn't pay for someone who doesn't work, is fat, unhealthy (because they made themselves that way)....why you might ask? because if they are going to base this bill on a law and working of economics and taxation, then you are damn right I don't want to pay for anyone that they themselves put into that situation to be that way, they aren't giving anything back, they aren't giving themselves anything either, they are rotting their lives.

you are the one that said they are "less of a person" not me, I consider them economic failures that can live in my country and be free to do what they want, but if they want a handout for doing nothing that defeats the purpose for everyone to not work, or go to school then, because it seems like that individual is the smart one and figured out he could be the healthiest and most free person by doing "nothing". I think they have a legal term for those people they call them looters, but now we are paying for looters, and the other good wholesome people that can't work (because of the government) to put the same government in power to fix something they caused in the first place and blah blah blah... I realize this is where I stop again because it's all the same text I have typed several times before...

so there you have it I refuse to pay for anyone besides myself and my family and that is how it should be for everyone and all because truly that is all they should have to be worried about, and if that is not the case and you feel the need to worry about more people, then perhaps you can donate your money medically to help that person and not pass a mandatory bill requiring everyone to feel the same way about an issue and making them a bad guy if they don't feel the same way...

because like I said I have no problems for voluntary donations to the right people.


So if you lose your job, and have no money and you get a treatable cancer... would you accept the free health care?

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PostMon Mar 29, 2010 9:24 pm » by Cornbread714


ghymmie wrote:So if you lose your job, and have no money and you get a treatable cancer... would you accept the free health care?


Ha ha, good question...

What do you say, Jet?
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PostMon Mar 29, 2010 9:27 pm » by Mushroom


I live in the UK. Our NHS is massively underfunded. We are overtaxed. We allow too many immigrants into the country which drives down the labour cost and aids rising unemployment.
We also pay benefit to the newcomers to this country when they cannot find employment (sometimes due to not speaking the english language).

The benefit claims infornation leaflets are available in many different languages (16 I think?)

Each and everyone of these people are entitled to free health care. There are many other issues involved, but I would not in good conscience deny anybody the right of healthcare.
In my opinion it is more about ethics and morals than it is about a constitution or government policy.

As I understand it.. The constitution isn't worth the paper it is written on. How much of it is still valid?
Are you an homeland security and patriot supporter?

People do understand your statements.. they just don't always agree.

Peace

jetxvii

PostMon Mar 29, 2010 9:56 pm » by jetxvii


ghymmie wrote:
So if you lose your job, and have no money and you get a treatable cancer... would you accept the free health care?


no thank you, I did it to myself or someone / something made me get it, and If I don't have the resources to get it I wouldn't want anyone to help me. I am very noble with my resources and what I know responsibly I have to take care of I.E. my family and me. now the government wants mandatory care about everyone even if I don't know the person, which to me is stupid I should and do have the right to choose who I care about and who I feel needs help vs. those that can't help themselves at all and those I don't think should need care.

I will go to a free hospital where people know they are donating there time to help someone and they have a choice, I will see if there choice is to help me or not..and if it isn't than so be it.

I will not spend thousands of dollars to get a cancer out of me, it was put there for a reason maybe it should stay there for a reason, that is the difference between a "god given right" and your acceptance of challenges to extend or prolong a life that you know has to end one day.

do you believe that the only way to helping someone through their health is through a government run health-care?

because there are better ways than that, and it starts with people trying to free their government of corruption and not accepting corruption when it seems in your favor.

@ mushroom that is exactly what I am trying to say, this is a question about morals and ethics, but it seems a few people are having a hard time understanding that this isn't the only way about affordable health-care, they keep asking good questions but misguided questions to make me look like I don't care ( or maybe they aren't).

but also at the same time it does have to be about law and constitutions because in order for anyone to get free or affordable anything you have to go through the government to implement these things, and that is what I am trying to convey. this is a question about morals to the point of "EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE AFFORDABLE HEALTHCARE!"

but the Legal and constitutional side of it and the way 90% of this is brought about on the citizens is the wrong way as you are just paying your government to do the exact same thing that they were preaching against doing.

Plus this bill is not the same as anyone else's health-care policies and if anyone that is attacking me read it they would understand that, then hopefully they can read their own and see if they still agree with it.

It's not my fault that some countries don't have a choice over what their money goes to, but here we still have a chance to make it "RIGHT" and do it the "right" way, but people are so put off by the this needs to happen now and it doesn't matter how it's done syndrome. how do you fix a falling house with duct tape? you implement more duct tape to cover for the fact that your house if falling.

I could just as easily turn this around and start attacking the people for this bill and call them lazy, communist, socialist, irrational cant think for yourself loser, criminals...

but I am not because I know people aren't thinking about this right that is why it frustrates me so much, and on top of that people are calling me out to be a guy that doesn't care and blah blah blah, which is ridiculous, asking extreme "what if" questions like they will happen....When I or you don't know if they will, but here you are still paying for those "what if's" and defending it all for a piece of mind that you needed or didn't need in the first place.... who knows right?

it's all apart of the same pool that is why this issue is important in more than the poor people that are dying, because it's not just the poor people that are dying because of lack of health-care it is the poor people that are dying due to the corruption of our government, they are losing there jobs because the government ( unless they are economic failures as I put it) they are losing there homes because of the government, they are losing there cars, electricity, gas, because of tax rate increases and "for no reason at all" hikes in energy ( gas is a good example, who decides that Oil is 100$ a barrel one day then 72$ one other day? is it a true and caring system? no it is rich oil tycoons that tell the people that is what they have to do)

It is the poor soldiers that are dying everyday to save a few oil tycoons interest, a few poor soldiers that are defending and using weapons contractors tools of war to make them richer as well...it is those poor troops out there that believe and are mislead like most going for the health-care bill into believing this is the only and just way for hunting down those problems (terrorist / health-care)

so my concern is fix the system instead of just accepting it to be the only way to do things because it is the default answer, or because you are lazy to do anything about it ( not directed at anyone just generally)....

peace

:cheers:

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PostMon Mar 29, 2010 10:56 pm » by Disorganizer81


A right is a principle that specifies something which an individual should be free to have or do. A right is an entitlement, something you possess free and clear, something you can exercise without asking anyone else's permission. Because it is an entitlement, not a privilege or favor, we do not owe anyone else any gratitude for their recognition of our rights.   The right to life is the right to act freely for one's self-preservation. It is not a right to be immune from death by natural causes, even an untimely death. And the right to property is the right to act freely in the effort to acquire wealth, the right to buy and sell and keep the fruits of one's labor. It is not a right to expect to be given wealth.

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PostMon Mar 29, 2010 10:57 pm » by Disorganizer81


The alleged right to medical care is one instance of a broader category known as welfare rights. Welfare rights in general are rights to goods: for example, a right to food, shelter, education, a job, etc. This is one basic way in which they are quite different from liberty rights, which are rights to freedom of action, but don't guarantee that one will succeed in obtaining any particular good one may be seeking.

If I have such a right, some other person or group has the INVOLUNTARY, unchosen obligation to provide it.

Nowhere in the constitution or bill of rights does it say our rights come from any other person.  ONLY THE CREATOR.


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