Congratulations USA. Welcome to the wide world of SOCIALISM

[Cornbread714 Profile]

So if you lose your job, and have no money and you get a treatable cancer... would you accept the free health care?

Ha ha, good question...

What do you say, Jet?

[Mushroom Profile]

I live in the UK. Our NHS is massively underfunded. We are overtaxed. We allow too many immigrants into the country which drives down the labour cost and aids rising unemployment.
We also pay benefit to the newcomers to this country when they cannot find employment (sometimes due to not speaking the english language).

The benefit claims infornation leaflets are available in many different languages (16 I think?)

Each and everyone of these people are entitled to free health care. There are many other issues involved, but I would not in good conscience deny anybody the right of healthcare.
In my opinion it is more about ethics and morals than it is about a constitution or government policy.

As I understand it.. The constitution isn't worth the paper it is written on. How much of it is still valid?
Are you an homeland security and patriot supporter?

People do understand your statements.. they just don't always agree.

Peace

[jetxvii]

So if you lose your job, and have no money and you get a treatable cancer... would you accept the free health care?

no thank you, I did it to myself or someone / something made me get it, and If I don't have the resources to get it I wouldn't want anyone to help me. I am very noble with my resources and what I know responsibly I have to take care of I.E. my family and me. now the government wants mandatory care about everyone even if I don't know the person, which to me is stupid I should and do have the right to choose who I care about and who I feel needs help vs. those that can't help themselves at all and those I don't think should need care.

I will go to a free hospital where people know they are donating there time to help someone and they have a choice, I will see if there choice is to help me or not..and if it isn't than so be it.

I will not spend thousands of dollars to get a cancer out of me, it was put there for a reason maybe it should stay there for a reason, that is the difference between a "god given right" and your acceptance of challenges to extend or prolong a life that you know has to end one day.

do you believe that the only way to helping someone through their health is through a government run health-care?

because there are better ways than that, and it starts with people trying to free their government of corruption and not accepting corruption when it seems in your favor.

@ mushroom that is exactly what I am trying to say, this is a question about morals and ethics, but it seems a few people are having a hard time understanding that this isn't the only way about affordable health-care, they keep asking good questions but misguided questions to make me look like I don't care ( or maybe they aren't).

but also at the same time it does have to be about law and constitutions because in order for anyone to get free or affordable anything you have to go through the government to implement these things, and that is what I am trying to convey. this is a question about morals to the point of "EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE AFFORDABLE HEALTHCARE!"

but the Legal and constitutional side of it and the way 90% of this is brought about on the citizens is the wrong way as you are just paying your government to do the exact same thing that they were preaching against doing.

Plus this bill is not the same as anyone else's health-care policies and if anyone that is attacking me read it they would understand that, then hopefully they can read their own and see if they still agree with it.

It's not my fault that some countries don't have a choice over what their money goes to, but here we still have a chance to make it "RIGHT" and do it the "right" way, but people are so put off by the this needs to happen now and it doesn't matter how it's done syndrome. how do you fix a falling house with duct tape? you implement more duct tape to cover for the fact that your house if falling.

I could just as easily turn this around and start attacking the people for this bill and call them lazy, communist, socialist, irrational cant think for yourself loser, criminals...

but I am not because I know people aren't thinking about this right that is why it frustrates me so much, and on top of that people are calling me out to be a guy that doesn't care and blah blah blah, which is ridiculous, asking extreme "what if" questions like they will happen....When I or you don't know if they will, but here you are still paying for those "what if's" and defending it all for a piece of mind that you needed or didn't need in the first place.... who knows right?

it's all apart of the same pool that is why this issue is important in more than the poor people that are dying, because it's not just the poor people that are dying because of lack of health-care it is the poor people that are dying due to the corruption of our government, they are losing there jobs because the government ( unless they are economic failures as I put it) they are losing there homes because of the government, they are losing there cars, electricity, gas, because of tax rate increases and "for no reason at all" hikes in energy ( gas is a good example, who decides that Oil is 100$ a barrel one day then 72$ one other day? is it a true and caring system? no it is rich oil tycoons that tell the people that is what they have to do)

It is the poor soldiers that are dying everyday to save a few oil tycoons interest, a few poor soldiers that are defending and using weapons contractors tools of war to make them richer as well...it is those poor troops out there that believe and are mislead like most going for the health-care bill into believing this is the only and just way for hunting down those problems (terrorist / health-care)

so my concern is fix the system instead of just accepting it to be the only way to do things because it is the default answer, or because you are lazy to do anything about it ( not directed at anyone just generally)....

peace

[Disorganizer81 Profile]

A right is a principle that specifies something which an individual should be free to have or do. A right is an entitlement, something you possess free and clear, something you can exercise without asking anyone else's permission. Because it is an entitlement, not a privilege or favor, we do not owe anyone else any gratitude for their recognition of our rights.   The right to life is the right to act freely for one's self-preservation. It is not a right to be immune from death by natural causes, even an untimely death. And the right to property is the right to act freely in the effort to acquire wealth, the right to buy and sell and keep the fruits of one's labor. It is not a right to expect to be given wealth.

[Disorganizer81 Profile]

The alleged right to medical care is one instance of a broader category known as welfare rights. Welfare rights in general are rights to goods: for example, a right to food, shelter, education, a job, etc. This is one basic way in which they are quite different from liberty rights, which are rights to freedom of action, but don't guarantee that one will succeed in obtaining any particular good one may be seeking.

If I have such a right, some other person or group has the INVOLUNTARY, unchosen obligation to provide it.

Nowhere in the constitution or bill of rights does it say our rights come from any other person.  ONLY THE CREATOR.

[Disorganizer81 Profile]

The fact that they didn't include the allowance of insurance companies to go across state lines is a JOKE.

It truly is a good thing the Federal government screwed this up so they could come in and "fix" it for us. LMAO!

Collectivism has been tried over and over again hundreds of times. Not only does it NOT work, it kills off MILLIONS of its own citizenry. I will gladly take 20,000 INDIVIDUALS dying a year, most because of their own lifestyle, because they couldn't afford the proper treatment. MILLIONS >WAY GREATER THAN>>> 20,000. FACT!

[Cricketine Profile]

You obviously have never been to a us government run program. SLOW FAT and INCOMPETENT. I think the best health insurance an american can have now is preventative care own their own.

[Disorganizer81 Profile]

Vote Liberal. You eill live FOREVER!

[Cricketine Profile]

All joking aside... This is the right thing.You took the control away from the corrupt insurance companies that own half your politicians, Give it time.. It may one day save your life or someone you know.

Oh, and btw, emergency room services are free for anyone who cannot afford them. No one is turned down from an American hospital on the basis that they can't pay.

Quite correct, but you still receive a huge bill. They take a little pity on you if you are uninsured by giving you a 10% discount.

My little son had a small but deep cut on his hand. The hospital washed it out and superglued it back together (not fucking kidding) and it cost me just over $2400. If I would have known what they would do and how much it would cost I would have done it myself.

It took me three years to pay the fucker off and that is after it went to collections because I couldn't afford to pay HALF of the bill within 30 days. Now I have a mark on my credit report for 4 years and it brought my rating down almost 90 points.
Sorry....pissed off rant.

[Cricketine Profile]

This pissed me off:

Upload to Disclose.tv

This is a transcript of the 1971 conversation between President Richard Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman that led to the HMO act of 1973:

John D. Ehrlichman: “On the … on the health business …”

President Nixon: “Yeah.”

Ehrlichman: “… we have now narrowed down the vice president’s problems on this thing to one issue and that is whether we should include these health maintenance organizations like Edgar Kaiser’s Permanente thing. The vice president just cannot see it. We tried 15 ways from Friday to explain it to him and then help him to understand it. He finally says, ‘Well, I don’t think they’ll work, but if the President thinks it’s a good idea, I’ll support him a hundred percent.’”

President Nixon: “Well, what’s … what’s the judgment?”

Ehrlichman: “Well, everybody else’s judgment very strongly is that we go with it.”

President Nixon: “All right.”

Ehrlichman: “And, uh, uh, he’s the one holdout that we have in the whole office.”

President Nixon: “Say that I … I … I’d tell him I have doubts about it, but I think that it’s, uh, now let me ask you, now you give me your judgment. You know I’m not to keen on any of these damn medical programs.”

Ehrlichman: “This, uh, let me, let me tell you how I am …”

President Nixon: [Unclear.]

Ehrlichman: “This … this is a …”

President Nixon: “I don’t [unclear] …”

Ehrlichman: “… private enterprise one.”

President Nixon: “Well, that appeals to me.”

Ehrlichman: “Edgar Kaiser is running his Permanente deal for profit. And the reason that he can … the reason he can do it … I had Edgar Kaiser come in … talk to me about this and I went into it in some depth. All the incentives are toward less medical care, because …”

President Nixon: [Unclear.]

Ehrlichman: “… the less care they give them, the more money they make.”

President Nixon: “Fine.” [Unclear.]

Ehrlichman: [Unclear] “… and the incentives run the right way.”

President Nixon: “Not bad.”

From: http://uspolitics.tribe.net/thread/b463 ... 8793c1512b