Connecting The Book Of Revelation With History And Beyond

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PostThu Dec 30, 2010 5:20 am » by Glenn

These are brilliant videos connecting the book of Revelation with historical fact, and that it has been unfolding on time since it was written. :flop:

Refuting futurism and a secret rapture of the Church, I promise the information here will make you sit up and pay attention. :mrgreen:

The Seals....









otoel wrote:The books "Swirly Twirly Swastika and Beyond" by Raphael and the book "Words from Old Soul" will never see the light of day...

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PostThu Dec 30, 2010 5:22 am » by 99socks

Thank you.... :flop:
I can't speak about how much of the Constitution is in effect anymore... But thank God we still somewhat resemble a Republic and not a democracy!

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PostThu Dec 30, 2010 5:26 am » by Glenn

The Trumpets.....












Last edited by Glenn on Thu Dec 30, 2010 5:43 am, edited 2 times in total.

otoel wrote:The books "Swirly Twirly Swastika and Beyond" by Raphael and the book "Words from Old Soul" will never see the light of day...

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PostThu Dec 30, 2010 5:37 am » by Glenn

These are videos about the Vials, but unfortunately there are only videos available for the 1st Vial and the 6th Vial. :(

I've left a message to the uploader on his youtube channel asking about the other videos, so hopefully he will post them soon. :flop:

Here's his youtube channel:

Here's his website:

The Vials....





otoel wrote:The books "Swirly Twirly Swastika and Beyond" by Raphael and the book "Words from Old Soul" will never see the light of day...

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PostThu Dec 30, 2010 9:39 am » by Mediasorcerer

thanx for posting ,very interesting stuff,just watched the lot of them,a bit scary,not sure i agree with all the interpretations ,but still interesting to ponder.
with the power of soul,anything is possible
with the power of you,anything that you wanna do

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PostThu Dec 30, 2010 3:54 pm » by Icarus1

get off your knees and burn your bibles , only then shall you be free
We thought about it for a long time, "Endeavor to persevere." And when we had thought about it long enough, we declared war on the Union.

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PostThu Dec 30, 2010 4:24 pm » by Boondox681

get off your knees and burn your bibles , only then shall you be free

that's great advice for alter boys everywhere!
"Doing stuff is overrated.Like Hitler.He did a lot.But don't we all wish he woulda' just stayed home and gotten stoned?"

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PostThu Dec 30, 2010 4:49 pm » by Funnyman46

Goldsworthy clarifies the principles of interpretation that pertain when we come to obscure passages in Revelation.

i. We must allow the clearer texts to take precedence over the more obscure.

ii. We cannot allow a point of doctrine to be established on an apocalyptic vision against clear statements to the contrary in the epistolary material of the NT (i.e. the letters).

iii. He also insists that the gospel of Jesus Christ is the key to the interpretation of the whole Bible.

In some ways interpreting Revelation is like a jig-saw, we must first find the corner pieces, an obvious example is the Lamb and the rider on the white horse in chapter 19 who is the exalted Christ, then there are other symbols which are defined in the book such as the lampstands and the dragon. From these we go on to more obscure symbols but which are clearly based on parts of the OT such as the seven trumpets and bowls which are modelled on the plagues on the Egyptians and the beast out of the earth which is based on Daniel's visions. It is clear then that it is possible to make a framework from the less obscure within which we can fit the more obscure. It is unlikely that we can complete the whole jig-saw but if the framework is correct we should at least grasp a portion of the whole picture.

This commentary assumes that the keys to its interpretation lie in the OT and NT scripture, but that a NT interpretation is required. It assumes that it is symbolic unless clearly meant to be literal. It assumes that the book's author is God and that it is written to the church throughout the ages from the writing of the letter to the second coming. The content primarily concerns the fate of the church and of her enemies. The symbology allows it to be interpreted in the light of the current historical situation throughout church history without being specific to a particular event, although there are specific events recorded such as the birth of Christ and the second coming. Many of the events recorded in the book are parallel with other events in the book. The book can viewed from the point of view of events in the past, current events and future events, all are meaningful.

3.1. The four schools of interpretation:
There are four schools of interpretation.

i. The preterist: that it describes in veiled language events of John's own time, and until the end of the Roman empire or at least the conversion of Constantine. This has the disadvantage in that it is only meaningful then but to us it is not as relevant. The beast is seen as only the Roman empire and Babylon is Rome, however there are clear references to the Rome of John's time and it is helpful to know the circumstances of Johns time in interpreting the book. In Rev 1: 11 John is told "Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea." hence in some ways it is similar to Paul's letters to the Romans, Corinthians, Colossians, Ephesians and Thessalonians. In both John's and Paul's letters God has chosen these to be preserved for His church throughout the centuries. Just as the letter to the Corinthians addresses specific problems they had then it also deals with these problems for future centuries. In the same way Revelation deals with the problems faced by the seven churches in Asia, but it also has a great deal to say to future generations. Because John uses symbolic imagery Revelation is not tied down to only the Roman empire but may also be used to described successive persecuting tyrannies down through the centuries. The next three methods of interpretation deal with the value of Revelation to future generations in different ways.

ii. The historicist: that it is a chart of the whole of history from Christ's first coming to his second, and beyond. In this method people will try to make sections of Revelation fit in with specific historical events. The beast is seen as the current manifestation of the beast such as the papacy in the time of the reformation. This position is untenable because there will be a wide variation of interpretations through the ages. But because the principles are valid to all generations, as the idealist would suggest, each generation should be able to identify the characters portrayed by Revelation. Therefore the historicists view should not be disparaged, it has provided comfort in times of persecution throughout church history. The most important of the historical interpretation from the 12th century to reformation times makes the papacy the beast and Rome or the Roman church is Babylon. However to make Revelation a chart of the whole of human history and therefore to use it to predict when the end will come is wrong and is not how John intended Revelation to be read, but to use it to strengthen God's people undergoing particular trials is a valid use.

iii. The idealist: that between messages for the first century and prophecies of the far future it deals chiefly with principles that are always valid in Christian experience. The beast is the Roman empire of John's day but also a succession of ungodly empires leading to the last empire from which the antichrist will come. Because Christians have been persecuted throughout the generations, each generation should be able to identify who their beast is.

iv. The futurist: that it is largely a prophecy of events still to come, especially just prior to the return of Christ. This is the normal interpretation of someone reading the book for the first time because its imagery looks so fantastic. It means that the book will be especially relevant for those in the last generation. The beast is seen as the antichrist who emerges from a revived Roman empire. It is clear that the second coming features prominently throughout the book and therefore there is truth in the futurist view, but this view tends to overlook spiritual truth that is of value today. However note that John is told not to seal up the book (Rev 22:10) because the time is near, although Daniel was told to seal up the vision until the end times (Dan 12:4), this means that the book is about to start its fulfilment. The book of Revelation was written initially to the seven churches in Asia, and hence the preterist view. However the book will reach it final fulfilment when the last antichrist appears and Christ returns this is the futurist view. Ladd divides the futurist views into two kinds, the moderate and the extreme view known as dispensationalism. The latter makes a sharp distinction between Israel and the church, the letters to the seven churches deal with seven ages of church history, chapter 7 onwards concerns Israel because the church has been raptured by this point so that it does not suffer in the great tribulation which occurs during the last 3 and a half years of history. This view is widely held in America, the best exponent of this view is Walvoord.

The futurist will argue that the preterist interpretation is wrong because Revelation concerns the end times, but during the time of the Roman empire the preterist interpretation was the end time. A similar comment could be made of the historicist interpretation during the Reformation. The idealist interpretation is probably the most relevant today, to meet today's needs during hard times when Christians are under pressure and it certainly does not discount a future fulfilment either. I would strongly question the idea that Revelation only has a future fulfilment.

The problem for anyone trying to interpret the book is that on reading the text one can find support for all these views which is why there is such a wide variety of interpretations and indeed disagreements. In a sense they are all correct, the futurist sees the beast as the future antichrist, the historicist sees the beast of history, the preterist sees the beast in Roman times and the idealist sees a succession of beasts leading up to the antichrist. The futurist writes from the point of view of a church not undergoing persecution now but expects it in the future particularly from the antichrist. The historicist writes from the point of view of current persecution or recent persecution as historical events and finds these in Revelation. The idealist looks to past periods of persecution and sees general principles within Revelation that can explain these. The preterist writes about how Revelation explains the persecution under the Roman empire. They are all correct, but they all see truth from a different perspective. This commentary is written mainly from a futurist and idealist viewpoint because this interpretation will be most useful to the church in this generation in the West. While the church in the West is not undergoing persecution, war is still being waged against it in the form of false doctrine and the seduction of worldly values.

More here:
Please do not take anything I say as truth, I am under control of a lizard race hell bent on staying underground and unseen to further my paranoia.

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PostThu Dec 30, 2010 6:11 pm » by Glenn

@ mediasorcerer

Thanks for taking the time to watch them and ponder the information. :flop:

@ funnyman46

Nice post man, it's interesting to lay out the differing viewpoints of interpretation. :flop:

otoel wrote:The books "Swirly Twirly Swastika and Beyond" by Raphael and the book "Words from Old Soul" will never see the light of day...

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