Creation Talk, Origins, Species, and General Discussion

Do you Believe in creation.

We were created by God in his image
7
24%
We Were created by many Gods
1
3%
We are a computer simulation
2
7%
We are engineered by aliens
7
24%
We were the culmination of many processes to make life as we know it
7
24%
We have no way of ever knowing
0
No votes
We have no way of knowing, but only for now
4
14%
I do not really care
0
No votes
Gundum style
1
3%
 
Total votes : 29
Conspirator
User avatar
Posts: 1728
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 4:12 am
Location: The loving arms of Christ Jesus

PostWed Aug 14, 2013 4:03 am » by Bleever


Constabul wrote:Intelligent design in its various incarnations has been hijacked by a faltering belief. Creationism.
The bible does not mention, or really even elude to the processes we observe at work.

I personally can not see how bible believers can attach onto intelligent design.
It is altering a prescribed set of beliefs, and in such no longer Christianity.
Ive no problem with that.


Well, humbly so, I would submit that in all the known literature (and I may be wrong) God owns it and fully take credit for it in Genesis.

On a sub atomic level, aren't we just bouncing digital code popping up at the right moment the viewer,views it? The bouncing digit appears exactly where it should be upon being viewed, not new or different little digits, but the same digit appearing and reappearing exactly where it should be to denote or 'underwrite' all the we see as matter.

Shouldn't we just reduce this to the lowest common denominator and jump right into the subatomic world?

Hebrews 11:3 - It is with words that world was formed, what is seen is made from what is unseen...

Vibration(s) is/are key here, and only the true creator could speak (vibrational tones) all this into existence.
Jesus died our death so that we may receive His life.

Conspirator
User avatar
Posts: 3032
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:31 pm
Location: Looking for a city, not built by man!

PostWed Aug 14, 2013 5:18 am » by Truthdefender


Bleever wrote:
Constabul wrote:Intelligent design in its various incarnations has been hijacked by a faltering belief. Creationism.
The bible does not mention, or really even elude to the processes we observe at work.

I personally can not see how bible believers can attach onto intelligent design.
It is altering a prescribed set of beliefs, and in such no longer Christianity.
Ive no problem with that.


Well, humbly so, I would submit that in all the known literature (and I may be wrong) God owns it and fully take credit for it in Genesis.

On a sub atomic level, aren't we just bouncing digital code popping up at the right moment the viewer,views it? The bouncing digit appears exactly where it should be upon being viewed, not new or different little digits, but the same digit appearing and reappearing exactly where it should be to denote or 'underwrite' all the we see as matter.

Shouldn't we just reduce this to the lowest common denominator and jump right into the subatomic world?

Hebrews 11:3 - It is with words that world was formed, what is seen is made from what is unseen...

Vibration(s) is/are key here, and only the true creator could speak (vibrational tones) all this into existence.



Fruit flies baby! That's where I was going half way through Conts long winded explanation! A computer programmer will acknowledge the lack in evolutionary theory! Where does the new code come from? How does preexisting, prewritten biological code, write new code to do new functions, grow new parts, process new information?

Also great add with the vibrational foundation of the universe, and the "God said" aspect of the argument. Ahhh, the simplicity that is in Christ!

You've been studying well M, and articulate it so much better!


Upload to Disclose.tv



In Christ are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge
Image

Initiate
User avatar
Posts: 604
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:54 am

PostWed Aug 14, 2013 7:27 am » by SonOfGodEternalFlame


To 1st understand creation you must understand in the beginning
was the word (in the beginning was the sound of gods voice nothing else has became mass or
or matter,not even in a quantitative state NOTHING IN THE PHYSICAL REALM. Just by the
The word ,sound,or vibration of god did all come into existence.

Here is the mystery of God revealed to mortal man who claims to
be consciously evolving while by Gods laws he's becoming evil beyond all imagination and
has a self centered hart. IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD (WORD=GOD) AND THE WORD
WAS GOD AND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD AND THE WORD BECAME FLESH ( GOD BECAME
A MAN JESUS CHRIST) AND WALKED AMONG MAN.


Now let's take a look at what the esoteric, new age, conscious theory
of how creation exist and what hold's it together, it always takes the word of god and confirms
it and then twist it to change and persuade ones mind. This part of her book has three sections and goes
mention the Annunaki story Anu, Enki, Enlil and Marduk and this was published in the 1930's but
I'll post the rest in different post.




Alice A Bailey - From Consciousness to Awareness - Part 1
Structure, what is structure and what is the requirement for structure in any facet or expression within existence or expression of creation? Structure, this entire universe, earth and heaven consist of many forms of structure. Why, I ask? What is the necessity for structure? Are we not able to exist as free moving and flowing beings in our expression and application of ourselves? Why have we trapped and confined ourselves to a limitational structural reality called earth or heaven? Does heaven have some form of structure, to my understanding I’d say yes. For the ability to create a car with all its mechanical parts is possible in heaven and so also on earth. This is only possible through the existence of some form of structure supporting the creation of such manifestation. Earth is in a structural form, nature with all its individual plants and trees, earth with all its buildings and towers, life forms such as insects, animals, human beings and the universe with stars and planets. All are structural manifestations. Then we have heaven with beings merely vibrating on a less dense vibrational expression as on earth, yet, movement and direction and creation exist in the exact same application as on earth, just faster. And they are unseen by beings on earth as the eyes structural vibration are fine tuned to see only that which reflect off the vibrations on earth. How does one see? Seeing is but through the reflection of light through the vibrations and frequencies resonating from a specific amount of molecules or atoms applying/placing themselves in a manifestation of a specific structure. Let’s take a table for example. A table is but a multiple amount of singular molecules and atoms coming together to present themselves in a specific form of manifestation and expression. Through doing so, they vibrate at a specific density level to be able to remain structured in a form of a table. The vibration of the molecules vibrate to such intensity that its intricate structure of the coming together of the molecules is unseen by the human eye, and it’s merely seen as a picture. This is the picture of a table. So, all see in pictures. Everything that’s around you is merely a picture presentation of truth of molecules vibrating at a certain density intensity level. Why? Why are molecules doing this, why establish themselves in a specific structure? Then we look at support. Are they not supporting us in this reality? What is this reality and what we have created within it showing us? Have we begun to miss the reason for the structural creation of all manifestations on earth? Have even heaven forgotten the true reason for the physical manifestation of both heaven and earth. The question to also probably asking is this: When the table starts withering away, is it really the table that is doing so? Or is it a creation of the mind and through what the physical eye see, a belief or an idea that a table is able to exist and last only so long? Molecules exist into eternity; they are infinite forms of structural expressions and yet again, another form of structural manifestation. From the biggest to the smallest form of manifestation, I am clearly able to see structure in all forms of manifestations and expressions, infinitely so. The question remains though…why? What is heaven? What is earth? They are structural manifestations and expressions of infinite amount of molecules coming together in different shapes and forms. Why? Have a clear look – possibly to support us? Then the question remains: Who am I? Am I that which gives life to all that exist? Am I the creator of all that exist? That which moves and direct all that exist? Am I the creator of all that exist? What are the molecules then in their expression of structural manifestation? Could it possibly be me expressing myself in a structural form to support me existing in a different structural form or expression through a process of the manifestation of the creator and created of who I really am? Is all that exist who I am, or is it merely me supporting me to be able to manifest, move, direct and create in structural manifestations and expressions creations and experiences of myself? Why does earth exist in a time space continuum and heaven in a quantum time application of existence? Was it or is it intended to be separate in any way? Why has existence been separated to such an extent that we are not even able to remember who we are and where we come from? Yes, many beliefs may have been created around such a question, regarding the origin of creation of both heaven and earth and all that exist within existence. But clearly, no-one seems to agree with each other regarding the creation of ourselves and existence. Clearly if not all agree or are in agreement regarding the starting point and the how of the creation of existence and ourselves, then none of the ideas and beliefs regarding the creation of existence could possibly be true. Why do I say this? The reason is the following. If all that exist, is molecules merely vibrating at a certain frequency and vibrations. And also resonating a certain frequency and vibration. Then clearly we derive from the exact same essence of construct and structure, which are molecules that manifest in multiple different forms of expression. I am taking this structural application of the molecule even one step further. What does the molecule consist of in essence to be able to create a structure? The molecules manifest in structures just as I have explained the Universe and earth with all that exist within and on it, have been able to manifest in form. The answer is sound. How do we as beings communicate, through sound, through words, which in essence is but a language, a formation of sound for all to understand each other? But look, we have even separated ourselves to the extent of not being able to communicate with each other properly through the creation of multiple different languages. What about the possibility of the one universal sound and language? Yet, the manifestation of different languages and construct of words are also an example of the extent to which we are able to create. Sound, how does sound manifest to create molecules? Then the question is asked but is it a creation, or merely an expression? What is expression, I ask? Does expression go hand in hand with creation? When molecules vibrate, the vibration is linked to the intense resonance of sound. The more intense the sound is directed, the more specific the structural manifestation of form. I am referring to Lily’s experience with the discovery of sound. Where she was able to actually make a sound, coming from within her, and with the vibrations and frequencies of which the sound consist of, she was actually able to create forms and structures infront of her and hold the sound in it’s specific expression (a sound which she created). She’d for instance make a sound and direct the sound to form a free flowing circle of sound for instance. And depending on how long she held the circle of sound in it’s free flowing expression, within the circle, more shapes started forming. Meaning the sound started manifesting in more intense and specific structural manifestations such as diamonds. This was when she made one specific sound. The sounds also manifested in different colour expression, yet the essence of the sound came from one singular sound. So when she’d make a different sound to the first which she placed in a circular structure, create a different free flowing sound shape with structural diamonds forming and place both together as one, another different sound would be created and different structural shapes would come into manifestation. For instance, now there’d be two different unique circular sounds, with the vibration and frequency of the sound manifesting in structural formations such as diamonds. And when these two integrate as one, there’d be another unique sound, and diamonds, and also another shape forming such as spirals for instance. What does this signify? It signifies the following: That with the integration of the two different circular sounds with their diamond structures and the new sound circle that’s created with the new spiral structure, all is still individual in manifestation, yet expressed as one. You are clearly able to see the individual colours of the two original sound circles, also the new colour of the two integrated as one sound circle, also the individual diamond structures and the new spiral structures. All sounding together as one. Then, you are able to take it apart again. To create two singular sound circles with the structural manifestation of the diamonds. Creating yet again, two different unique yet one sound. I say one sound because as I have said before, all sound has a different unique expression in structural manifestation, but yet the essence of all sound is one and the same. What are vibrations and frequencies, but structural creations as for the carriers of sound. Vibrations are but the measurement of the duration of time during which the sound has specifically resonated at the same sound signature. For instance making the same sound for a certain period of time, which then created vibrations and then frequency, is then the measurement of the intensity in which the same sound has been made for a certain period of time. I am saying that all of existence is the structural manifestations and expressions of us as sound. All that exist is structural manifestation of sound. As I have said, look at words, its sound, carriers of sound in structural form. Words are another form of structure. It’s the structure with which we communicate. Is it possible that we have originated from sound, we’ve always only been sound and that we’ve resonated and made one specific sound for eternity, until one moment, the sound as ourselves started vibrating (as I have explained vibration to be the structural expression of sound once a specific sound is made for a certain period of time) and then created frequencies (which as I explained is the measurement of the intensity with which the same sound has been made). Within the creation of vibration and frequency, sound started forming structural manifestations such as molecules and atoms which became the foundational structures of existence. I have then another question to ask. What about colour then? Why do beings on earth see different shapes in specific colours? Is that the real colour of the expression and structural application of sound in manifestation as molecules in specific formation creating a tree? No, it’s not. I see all structural manifestations on earth as the exact same sound colouring, yet with the human eye, it seems as though it’s one singular colour. Why? As I have explained, seeing is but through the reflection of light through the vibrations and frequencies resonating from a specific amount of molecules or atoms applying/placing themselves in a manifestation of a specific structure. What is light? Light is the structural application and manifestation of the intensity of frequency levels. Did you know “darkness” is also light? “Darkness” is but the vibrational frequency application of molecules creating lower frequency intensity, creating the idea of “darkness”. So, what does night and day represent? Both are actually light frequencies, merely resonating and vibrating at different frequencies to create two different light applications and the representation of this application in structural form is the sun and the moon! The question I ask then is how have we structurally created this reality through sound to represent certain creation abilities? But before I answer this question, let me return to colour and seeing. I have explained that the vibration of the molecules vibrate to such intensity that its intricate structure of the coming together of the molecules is unseen by the human eye, and it’s merely seen as a picture. Thus, everything on earth is seen in its simplest form, thus, the human eye see the expression of sound in its simplest form and colour. One colour, one picture. Just like a brown table is seen as one picture, with one colour. I have another question, who decided tree’s to be brown and green? Why are they seen by the human eye as brown and green? Yet, when you have a closer look at the tree, you’ll observe and interesting thing. There are multiple different colours of brown and green on one tree. So, what are we showing ourselves through the structural manifestations of multiple amount of molecules coming together vibrating at a specific density and light frequency intensity to create the structure of a tree? And then also the specific colours seen by the human eye? The molecules are vibrating at such intense frequency vibrational and light levels, all the colours of the sound created through the molecules coming together in a specific structure become what seems like one specific colour like for instance brown and green in the tree, to the human eye. For us to be able to discern between multiple different sound molecule frequencies vibration structures, we see in pictures and specific selected colours. When I look at structural shapes on earth, I see all of existence, beings, sound, words, structural creations etc. as one singular sound, with multiple amounts of different colours. As well as all the molecules vibrating to be able to create such an extraordinary existence.


The Power of God’s Word in Creation

Romans 10:17 “So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” This is one of the first verses I can remember memorizing. It was taught (and still is) as a key verse in the first of five steps of obedience to become a Christian. (Hear-Believe-Repent-Confess – Be Baptized – remember?)

I like the NIV translation of this verse: “ Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.” (NIV) This verse is simple, but the implications are profound and compelling.

1) Faith cannot exist apart for hearing the message sent from God.

2) One does not hear the message of God through intuition, mystical experience, philosophy, or consensus, but in the words of Christ revealed by the Holy Spirit.

3) True faith and obedience are based upon a revealed and objective message

4) If we do not preach or teach this message, others will not have faith, and therefore be lost.

We will spend some time looking at the place and value of God’s words.

Some charge Christians with placing too much emphasis on the Bible. They charge us with Bibliolotry – worshipping the Bible, rather than God.
What we can recognize from the words of the Bible itself is that it is not possible to put too much emphasis on God’s words. It is impossible to worship Him without emphasizing His words.
Begin with a familiar passage that we studied recently in Bible Class. 2 Timothy 3:16-17.”All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. The term translated inspired literally means “God-breathed” (in fact the NIV says that). It indicated that scripture is the product of God alone.

In some passages the term scripture is synonymous with the person of God Himself.
Gal 3:8 “And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand unto Abraham, (saying,) In thee shall all the nations be blessed.” (ASV)
Gal 3:22 “But the scriptures shut up all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.” So in these verses Paul tells us that scripture was God’s own voice and action. In Rom. 9:17 Paul says that scripture spoke to Pharaoh, when we recognize that God himself was the one speaking.
The Word of God in Creation: Turn to Genesis 1 – From the beginning, God has spoken. The words of God have always produced results. The account of creation in Genesis 1 & 2 is one of the most powerful treatises on the power of God’s Word.

A. The main character of this chapter is the Word of God… The words “God said” are used 10 times in this chapter. These words describe the force at work. There can be no ignoring God’s voice in creation. Everything exists because God has spoken.
1. The first 2 verses are a general statement of what God did – Gen 1:1-2 “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. (NIV) – God brought the heavens and earth into existence. At this point the heavens and earth were formless and empty – (waste & void – ASV).
The rest of the chapter describes how God brought order and design to His Universe. What we see around us is the result of both initial creative power and intricate forming, so as to make this place suitable for man (the pinnacle of God’s creative work.)
In the spiritual realm it is also God’s word that brings order and value to God’s creation. The physical creation is a parallel to the spiritual creation.
2. Genesis 1:3-5 – Then God said,”Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day. On the first day of the first week God created light and divided the light from the darkness. The creation of light paved the way for all life. Without light, no life could exist.
What did God do another first day of the week? He brought Jesus out of the grave. This is described as providing light to all the world. 2 Cor. 4:3-6 “But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. 5For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake. 6For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. Paul uses the event of that first day to illustrate how God has brought “light” to the spiritual world as well.
God called the light “good” and divided the light from the darkness. Again we recognize the power of God’s words. Not only does He create perfectly (good), but He also makes distinctions.
1) 7 times in Gen. 1 God says that His created physical world is “good” – not morally good or w/o sin – but the word means suited to its purpose. (like a “good” lawnmower) This physical world is not an end in itself. It exists to bring glory to God, and ultimate glory through the redemption of men through Christ.

These distinctions in the physical creation are consistent throughout and cannot be abrogated. We set our watches by the decrees of God’s words. These are so set that we refer to them as “laws”.
1) Why is it that we recognize the objective, unalterable nature of God’s words in the working of nature, but easily set aside His words revealed in scripture? If there are consequences to violating one, there consequences to violating the other.

2) This reminds us of Heb. 4:12-13 “For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account. God’s word can distinguish what may seem indistinguishable. (Watermelon & the rind).

1 John 1:5 “This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.” We must always be ready to accept the divisions that God’s word provides (evil & good; right & wrong) It is as impossible to dissolve the distinction between right and wrong as it is between light and darkness. Phil 1:9-10 - And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in knowledge and all discernment, 10 that you may approve the things that are excellent, that you may be sincere and without offense till the day of Christ, How do you approve the things that are excellent? You must make distinctions. How? By the word of God.
Creation is the Unique Work of God’s Word: A study of the creation account causes us to pause at the use of the Hebrew word, “bara” - to create. This word is unique in that its only subject in scripture is God. Vines says… “bara.. is of profound theological significance, since it has only God as its subject. Only God can “create” in the sense implied by bara. The verb expresses creation out of nothing,.” We may call ourselves creative, but we cannot do what this word describes. Only God can create out of nothing.

In Gen. 1 we find bara only 3 times. (that doesn’t indicate that the other Hebrew words do not signify the act of creation). But it does point out the absolute necessity of God’s intervention in all three places:
Gen. 1:1- matter & energy
Gen. 1:21 – Life (breath of life)
Gen. 1:27 – Man in the image of God
Evolutionary theory supposes spontaneous existence of matter & energy (which is scientifically impossible), but even if you have that present, it takes another divine intervention to get life, and then another intervention (out of nothing) to create morally responsible life in the image of God!
Look at Heb 11:3 “By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible. By faith in what? (Faith comes by hearing the word of God) The Hebrew writes says that can only understand the unique work of God’s word in framing the worlds, by our faith (trust) in the revealed word of God scripture.
Peter connects the creation to the power of God’s word in 2 Peter 3:5-9 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
Peter says that those who live as though there is no judgment forget some important things.
They forget that God is not limited by time. He is never late or early.
They forget the purpose of God is to save (longsuffering) so the delay does not suggest He is not coming.
They forget the power of God’s word. The heavens and earth that they see exist because God spoke. They are preserved by His word. When He speaks again, all these things will cease to exist.
When God is finished with this world He will destroy it with the power of His word. (It is now being preserved by His word, and will one day end with His word. Those who refuse to obey God will be condemned by the word of the Lord. Heb 1:10-12 “You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands. They will perish, but You remain; And they will all grow old like a garment; Like a cloak You will fold them up, And they will be changed. But You are the same, And Your years will not fail”. (Like a paper plate, do you put it in the dishwasher?) What a pity we invest so much energy and time into this world.
God’s New Creation – The physical creation is not God’s best work (hard to believe when you see what we recently gazed on in Alaska.) But this world will come to an end.
1. Christians are the new spiritual creation of God. 2 Cor 5:17 – 7 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. Paul emphasized the creative aspect of God’s spiritual work in our behalf in the book of Ephesians:

Eph 2:10 – 0 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Eph 2:15 – 5 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,
Eph 4:24 - 4 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
2. How are we created? By the power of God’s word. - James 1:17-18 – 17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning. 18 Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures.

Romans 1:16 – 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.
Mark 16:15-16 – 15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
Conclusion: There is nothing more powerful than God’s word. How can you and I resist it? Heb 2:1-4 – Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away. 2 For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, 3 how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him, 4 God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will?


If the things seen are held by sound then evolution wouldn't work .

Initiate
User avatar
Posts: 604
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:54 am

PostWed Aug 14, 2013 7:31 am » by SonOfGodEternalFlame


here's the other sections

Alice A Bailey - From Consciousness to Awareness - Part 2

Transcribed and typed by Alice A. Bailey through the interdimensio­nal portal



Section 2) Now I return to my previous question which is how we have structurally created this reality through sound to represent certain creation abilities? As I have mentioned the sun and the moon being representations of light and dark created through light frequency vibrations. As I have mentioned before, all in essence is sound. One sound, which mean all forms and structures beings and animals are in essence equal. We’re all then equal. We have heaven and earth, heaven merely vibrating at a less dense and intensity level than earth. Does this mean that anything or anyone in existence is separate in any way? My answer is no, as I have just proven to myself that all that exist is one. Then why and how have existence come to the expression and experience of itself at this moment. Why are so many beings lost in ideas, beliefs, emotions, feelings, dreams, desires hopes and needs? How did this happen? I have a theory which I am able to derive from that which I have just shared with all. That through our creation process as sound, in form such as human beings and animals; we have misinterpreted all of creation through what we have seen with our physical eyes. We have been the creators since the beginning and will remain creators into infinity. My question is then also, have there ever been a beginning, as we are always infinitely here as sound, merely expressing ourselves in different structures, shapes and form. Through our misinterpretation of existence we started creating ideas and perceptions of this universe and all its existence. When did we stop creating as sound as who we really are? Or is this who we really are? What if we are beyond sound, we are the creators of sound and all of creation that has flowed from the first sound ever made? That we have created all that exist and stepped into our own creation to be able to experience our creations, knowing and understanding that we’re never able to really actually lose ourselves, but stand and walk as endless creators? That we as who we really are have created all that exist and that we are experiencing our own creation. Yet, possibly through being here and experiencing our own creation as ourselves (all of creations is structural manifestations and expressions of who we are) we have misinterpreted our own creation separating ourselves from ourselves, from our own existence and creation and became lost in our own creations. What does existence represent, earth and heaven and all that exist within – it represent the extent to which we are able to create as creators. And we are here experiencing our own creation. Why do I say separated? Look at the world today, it seems as though creation stopped at the creation of man. Why? Was the creation of man, another manifestation of ourselves to be able to experience our own creation and creation (such as earth, plants and trees and animals) also being ourselves, manifestations of ourselves to support us in the experience of our own creation? Separated, look at the world today. We have been creating on the outside, aeroplanes, jets, space crafts to travel in space, cell phones, television, electricity, computers, homes, clothes etc, yet, beings have completely forgotten about themselves. Each one on earth and heaven previously has forgotten who they are and why they’re here. Every single being in existence previously existed completely outside themselves, looking, yearning and seeking for something to fulfill them. As computers, televisions and cell phones are being merely upgraded to even more intricate and extensive models, beings on earth as who they are is slowly but surely being destroyed. Trying to make life and their existence more bearable and livable, trying to survive, through establishing relationships and creating better technology to justify all beings’ on earth existence reason for being here. The existence of violence, molestation, abuse, killing, dishonour and disrespect towards others, beings defining themselves according to certain applications such as doctors, politicians, lawyers or businessman as being some form of attainment to success. Beings defining themselves according to relationships, apparently the one singular desire of all beings, structuring themselves to attain some form of success for money, power and control, to make sure they have a relationship to be able to enjoy the pleasures of sex. If you honestly have to look at existence as it is existing right now, if you had one opportunity to create the world you’d like to experience as yourself, would this be all there is to it? Have a look at to what extent we have separated and limited ourselves within our own creation. Beings are only existing for the attainment of power, money, manipulation, relationships, sex etc. and why? I have an answer for that: To be able to survive in this reality. Our existence has become that of survival. This is the point I am making. We have forgotten how to create as who we are, to express ourselves (expression being creation which goes hand in hand) as creators, and we have allowed ourselves to limit, suppress and degrade ourselves to the one simple action of survival. Not knowing or remembering who we are, where we come from, how we got here and the reason for us being here. To the extent where we won’t even consider it possible that we are actually the creators of all existence. Clearly through the application of all beings in existence we are clearly able to see that we are destroying not only ourselves, but also our creation. We are all so lost, lost in ideas, perceptions, multiple amounts of beliefs etc. We have swinged our applications around completely. Have a look at the world today. You know what’s interesting; we are already showing ourselves the application of oneness that exists within all beings. All countries have presidents and politicians, and all beings of that specific country agree and abide to the rules regulations and laws of the countries government. Beings have individually collectively agreed (beings in the society) to appoint a certain being to a specific application of responsibility standing as president for instance. And then naturally the president also agreed to take the position which was offered and collectively agreed by all of society. The point I am making is that most or some agreed. Yes, maybe others would have preferred someone else, but the collective decides and they still have to abide to the rules regulations and laws. All beings in a specific country collectively decided on laws, regulations and rules to which they have to abide to. Then you have the special police forces, also agreed by all in the country to exist to assist those who are not following the rules, regulations and laws of a specific country in understanding them through experiencing the consequences of their actions. And this exists in all countries in some way or another where many beings will agree on multiple different applications to bring forth some form of order in their world. What I am saying is that all beings agreed on one and the same application of having a president, laws to which they must abide to and police forces to protect them and the rest of society against each other. We have collectively as one accepted creations in this reality as how it exists at this moment of expression. A clear indication of agreement in oneness. Yet, look at the state of our agreement and experience. From creators we have become slaves. From equality we have gone to separation. From harmony we have gone to destruction. From absolute trust within ourselves we have gone to trying to protect ourselves from each other. What have we done and what have we allowed? To be honest our experience at the moment in existence is the consequences of our actions for separating ourselves from ourselves in the beginning. And it’s been going on for some time. Is no one in existence able to see what we have allowed? Is no one able to see that all is actually living expressing and experiencing the same expression in existence? Beings wanting to have a relationship, to have sex, to create a family a successful business, abiding to the rules of the government ruling the country and society. This has been continuing for eons of time, the exact same applications, over and over and over again. The only things really changing in a way was the creational abilities to modify homes, medicines and technology. The exact same applications existed in heaven previously as well. The desire to dominate, rule and have some form of power to validate themselves and their existence, some beings enslaving others. All of existence has merely become a compounding effect of the experience and expression of ourselves as slaves. Have no one in existence realized that all have been doing the exact same applications for eons of time? The exact same applications and expressions have been applied in heaven as well as on earth. Myself, Alice Bailey discovering that earth had become the central point of enslavement in the entire universe. Where beings in the universe, some unseen by the human eyes, have used beings on earth as laboratory rats to practice their apparent creational abilities manifested as some form of technology. Playing games to see who are able to trap beings on earth more than the other. Competitions were created to create the positioning of power and control by beings playing games on and with others trapped on earth. So much have been done to beings on earth, that nothing on the planet earth is truth in any way whatsoever. Earth has become the definition and existence of the definition as to what extent all beings in existence have become lost. Existence became enslavement process upon enslavement process upon enslavement process. We have forgotten the structural existence such as earth, the planets plants trees, stars and animals and the specific reason for their existence and therefore our own. Look at starvation, what is the existence of starvation but the consequence and outflow of power and money – hungry survival based instinct applications of most beings on earth so that there’s not enough for all? What is sexual abuse and rape but the consequence of the expression of beings basing their existence and experience of themselves on the need and desire to have sex and experience it. Beings will do anything and everything to have sex. Beings basing their existence, posture, method of walking, talking and dressing to be noticed by someone to have a relationship to be able to experience sex. Being successful and have money to be able to manipulate and control others for sex. Taking drugs as a substitute of the experience of having sex. The drugs as well as sex becoming an addiction and taking them over completely. Just as drugs and sex have become the enslavement of earth so have power and control become the enslavement of heaven. So will it be in heaven and so on earth. What is drought on earth indicating but the application of how we are allowing ourselves to drive the creational life force within us out through existing outside ourselves continuously, slowly but surely killing ourselves, drying ourselves out of our natural abilities to create and support ourselves through our own creational abilities? What have we done? We exist in a reality of absolute enslavement and separation where all fear and disregard each other. As it is in heaven, so will it be on earth. My question as well as Bernard’s at the time I was introduced to him was exactly the same. How did we allow ourselves to experience ourselves as one as sound, equal as creators experiencing and expressing ourselves in our own creation, as one as equals to where we are now in the absolute experience of separation and enslavement? We are completely lost in ideas, pictures and beliefs, different religions and relationships. Not even allowing ourselves to see an inkling of the truth of who we really are and what we’re actually able to do as creators in full expression. Trapped, enslaved and separated beyond recognition! The above writings and references were obtained during my own journey in the dimensions and on earth. I have been for many lifetimes an observer and participant in many events across the universal process. I have many writings I kept with me, capturing my each and every observation regarding events and experiences I have come across during the universal processes. I would often enjoy a quiet moment in my own presence, writing about my regular daily experiences in the dimensions before I manifested here on earth in becoming Alice Bailey. I am now referring to the time before I was introduced to Bernard. In my home and also within the settlement of beings with whom I stayed I was seen as a strange “loner”. I had longish brown hair, brown eyes, white-pinkish skin and fairly tall and slender. I recall even the way I moved as I was walking. My specific way of movement was usually compared to the movement of the grace of God. Which is also specific, for where I came from beings were born through sounding words. I was born through the word grace and this was where my name derived from, which was Gracioulè. Within our planet we had a specific sanctuary where new beings would be created. The process of the new creation of a being would work as follows: The sun (I am referring to the same sun as here on earth) would specifically over a certain period of time direct a ray (light rays, red orange and yellow in nature) on the triangle which hovered over the sanctuary. The sanctuary consisted of a structural building, pearly white, with a triangle hovering directly above. The rays would then open the triangle and thus open the doors to the sanctuary. Two beings would then be selected, usually male and female who had made a specific agreement to walk together in expression of creation. Though there have been occurrences where it was only one male or one female. The selection would be indicated through a ball of fire, being a smaller illustration of the sun, igniting between the two beings. The beings would transform into the light rays of the sun, exactly as those that come from the sun to open the triangle and the doors to the sanctuary, and then as soon as their entire physical expression would become that of the colour of the sun’s light rays, the smaller sun expression would appear in between the two beings who were selected. Once this occurred the selected beings would walk along the steps into the open doors of the sanctuary. Within the sanctuary walls there was nothing inside the only existent room, except a white wall, moving directly infront of the beings. The two beings selected would then simultaneously speak one word, mine beings Grace for instance, and then a being would step forth from without the white pearly moveable wall. The entire sanctuary and our existence was sound based. All sound structural expressions resonated a specific light frequency vibration. Thus, I became the conscious embodiment of grace. And so were all the beings from the sound existence I originate from. We were specific conscious embodiment expressions of sounding words. Then the question is asked what is consciousness? My understanding and experience of consciousness as the embodiment of the sounding word grace was a finely, finely tuned sound frequency which resonated from the center of my brain, allowing me to interpret all structural formations and manifestations of sound as myself around me and within me. This allowed myself as sound to become accustomed to existence of sound around me as myself. I was intricately aware of all sound. Sound in movement, sound in structural manifestation and I remember my first experience of the world and manifestation of sound within my existence. I was truly born for the first time, my eyes and my ears experiencing the purity of sound all around and within me. I clearly remember observing, listening and watching and participating with all the different sounds, as though the sound was as conscious as myself, participating with me in the event of my birth and self realization as sound in conscious embodiment. Thus my existence started, as sound into this reality. The selection of beings were also specifically directed only to those who honoured themselves as sound in free movement and application as creators. They’d also have a specific sound signature which indicated the allowed intimacy within the agreements made by beings. We continuously created and shared our experiences as creators as sound with all beings. This is also how I came into contact with Lily and showed her how to play and create with sound when we were mere infants in the universe. My understanding of all creation from sound origin is thus explained.


Alice A Bailey - From Consciousness to Awareness - Part 3

Transcribed and typed by Alice A. Bailey through the interdimensio­nal portal



Section 3) I was sent to a settlement, this was during the time when beings from planets oblivious to the events of the outside multiple Universes occurrences, were being captured and taken away as slaves. To where exactly I did not know for certain at the time and frankly no-one tried to find out. The reason I’d say the application of imprisonment of beings in the outside universes were able to be carried out was due to all having the impression that existence is safe and peaceful. I remember my earlier dimensional years being that of absolute freedom and enjoyment, all beings existing peacefully within their own worlds and creations. Sharing creational abilities with one another and assisting with expanding each one’s ability to create. No-one had any impression of anyone ever deliberately harming another and therefore had no need of any protective assistance models or mechanisms. Yet, the moment arrived where other’s had taken advantage of those who existed blissfully, without a worry or fear in their world and started destroying all that are free. They deliberately destroyed creators and creations. Even turning families, friends, brothers and sister’s against each other. Sound familiar? It became an extensively difficult time to be able to trust anyone. I was grateful for my grandmother was the keeper of the settlement in which many of us were able to hide. My notes and daily observations were able to be obtained through a specific meditation application I mastered through the years. Where I came from, beings would come to me from neighbouring planets and ask me to focus on a specific planet and a specific being to reveal to them how their friends or family are doing in the different universe. I’d do this through connecting the planet and the being to my specific signature, for instance place my signature within the planet and all beings inhabiting the planet, and I’d thus be able to observe the planet and the beings current time movements and applications. Seeing everything play out right in front of me. It was a fascinating gift for which I was truly grateful for and treasured it infinitely. And so, during my time spent in the settlement, I meditated regularly and made clear notes of that which I observed in the universe’s ap­plication. I expanded my ability to be able to observe all in existence. And so I was able to open up all of existence right in front of me and see everything. The beginning and the end of existence, which fascinatingly was all here! What was quite ironic is the interesting fact that during my meditations on the planet from which I came, I never was aware of the beings who seemed to suddenly come out of nowhere and imprison all other beings. For I only used my gift when specifically asked and to now and then through my schooling years with Satya learning about multiple planets, focus on meditating on planets I learned about, to visit and observe the beings and the planet I was curious or fascinated about. Also, beings who’d pass by who secretly heard of the hide away settlement would share with me their stories and experiences of families, friends, wives, children and husbands being taken away as prisoners, barely escaping. This explaining my previous explanation of me being an observationist (a word I have just created) loner. Observationist being a being who observes for a living! Which is what I did for some time! And so I wrote, regularly, of my observations and then the few inserts and insets of my observations through conversations I had heard of the beings coming and going through the settlement. The first question naturally I asked myself during my meditations was how such applications were possible. All were existing in peace and freedom, sharing creational experiences and abilities unconditionally and equally. I then one moment opened existence in front of me. I also during the expansion of my meditation abilities had to transcend the fear of someone or something being able to find out that I am able to watch and observe them. I came to realize that it was in a way impossible as my specific meditation ability was done from the sound of equality, the one singular sound which exists in all, equally as one. I would access the sound of equality and open all of existence right in front of me, here. All of existence was able to fit in a space right in front of me and I was able to move within the sound as the sound, within and through all of existence. Why was I able to do so was my question. The answer to the question was that all and everything that exist, originates from the sound of equality and thus created as starting point from the sound of equality. The sound of equality exist within all that exist and all creations. Though, with creation come responsibility and this is what the beings who originally captured, imprisoned and enslaved most of existence did not apply. How is Bernard able to do and understand what he is able to do, merely through communication with words as the carriers of sound? The only common sense answer would be that that which he is living and applying as equal as all, have already been experienced and applied. Has he not so often mentioned that he is completely sound? Standing, living, applying and communicating as the sound of equality? Why is he able to see, understand, direct and know exactly what to do and what to say in one singular moment? Then another question is able to be asked. The words he is speaking, are beings actually hearing the sounding of the words? As the sounding of a singular word, brought myself into manifestation and embodiment of conscious sound to be able to interpret, experience, express and create within and as existence as sound around me. Words are the method of communication where sound is carried in words, where sound meets sound in a moment of sharing a experience or expression or creation. Yet, all this is non-existent at the moment. Or is it really? Have we then not forgotten our origin of hearing, seeing, creating, experiencing and expressing as the sound of equality. The answer is in sound. Hear the words, as the words are the carriers of sound which resonate through you as sound to reveal to you who you really are. To step forth as who you are as the manifestation and embodiment of sound as awareness. What is fascinating about sound is that sound has no boundaries and is limitless, endless and infinite in expression and creation. Yet, the origin of sound is equality. Just have a look at my existence and all the other beings with whom I existed. We all originated from the sounding wall, yet each one intricately unique, yet equal, yet one! This makes sharing creations and expression so much more enjoyable, sharing your own creations with yourself, sharing your own expressions with yourself, all unique yet one! Imagine the world today in such wondrous application, free movement and expression in creation. Where all understand equality, all exist equally and all experiencing and expressing their unique creations with each other. All experiencing one another on such intimate depths of self, discovering the infinite experiences, expressions and creations of self. This would be my definition of the embodiment of the sound of equality in full application, living, expressing and creating! The beings who did not understand the word responsibility as creators were those who slowly but surely separated themselves from all other beings in existence. Not sharing their creational abilities or expressions of self with others. This occurred slowly but surely, refractionally. I am now explaining what I observed during one of my meditations at the settlement whilst asking the question: How is such applications of imprisonment and enslavement possible? There was a planet named Neburu, which held four primary beings named Anu, Enki, Enlil and Marduk. They were seen as the Masters of Creational abilities, well, this is how Satya referred to them! They enjoyed creating so much and I had spent many a day with Anu especially observing his creational abilities with sound. It was magnificent and I was always in absolute awe of their creations. Yet, all always seemed fine with the four of them. They were always together, yet they did not spend much time in the outskirts of all the other multiple planets and universes that existed beyond them. They’re multiple amounts of families were amongst the travelers of the universe, exploring and sharing themselves as creators. Everyone always came to visit them, usually traveling with Satya. Yet, not even Satya was able to prepare herself for the events that were to follow. I then observed what they’ve been hiding from all beings in existence, a planet, which was hidden by a veil of sound. On this planet they manifested their creational abilities. Through speeding up the sound vibrations of molecules and atoms, they were able to physically manifest physical expressions of sound, which today is called the human body. Now what must be remembered is that I am now speaking of the beginning stages of Anu, Enki, Enlil and Marduk’s creations. They had an idea to create a manifestation of a physical body, with which they are able to climb into and walk around on a physical slower vibrational plane. The planet had always been there, yet just the same as other planets on the Universe, the sounding of the planet in manifestation vibrated at a specific frequency. The foursome decided to create the physical human body as it is known today, to be able to fit in with this specific planet, to create the exact same embodiment in the image and likeness of the planet. They then used nature as an example to be able to create the physical human body. And so it was done. The physical human body was created the exact same way in which plants existed on this specific planet, which today is called earth. The physical human body was created as the image and likeness of the planet’s plants. Have a look, the human body is the exact replica of plants in nature. It consist of the same constructs and have the exact same requirements and needs as that of plants. During this time, the physical human body was created from the sound of equality as this was the only foundational sound from which one was able to create infinitely. Then, after my visit to Anu, Enki, Enlil and Marduk, also explaining to them how I stepped forth into the existence of sound and what I understand consciousness to be, as I have explained to you previously. The foursome then decided to create a consciousness within their physical manifestation creations on the planet which is now called earth. And so it was done.

All this was kept from all other beings in existence, veiled by sound, and here is the reason why. The creation of the physical manifestations, called the human body and the creation of the fine tuned frequency consciousness, actually created a conscious being. Through my meditation application I was able to experience with the new creations, exactly they’re experience on earth. It was exactly the same as mine, seeing and hearing the purity of sound as myself, yet different at the same time. They experienced the physical manifestations of everything around them and viewed only pictures, they did not see the sound as I and most of existence understood as who we are as sound. They did not understand that they were one and equal with their existence, but was only in absolute awe of that which was around them. Nature and earth they viewed their creation and existence as pictures (as I have explained beings on earth see their reality currently). Anu then realized this and played around with these beings on the planet now named earth. All four of them wrote the book Ani, and Enki wrote the tablets of equality, which was later presented by him disguised as Anu to Marguerite and Bernard as the tablets of oneness. The book of Ani held all the foursome’s cre­ational abilities, the exact words, techniques, steps taken, sounds used, what structure that sound created to be able to specifically manifest as their creations etc. So much! And this was they’re Bible. The book of Ani became they’re way of living, expressing and experiencing themselves all written down. Even exact examples given as illustrations within the book. So clear and exact was the book that anyone who was reading it was able to create in one moment! Here originated the first establishment and application of separation within existence and equality. The planet and the conscious beings inhabiting the planet as the foursome’s creation was veiled to all other beings in existence, as well as the book of Ani. Why do I say they did not understand the responsibility that goes with creation is that they did not realize that that which they created was actually in essence themselves in manifestation. And through not realizing this, they continued with their experimentations and manifestations and creational abilities, also separating themselves from all of existence, clearly an application of what they have allowed within themselves. As they say, from the smaller to the bigger. See, they separated themselves from themselves by not allowing themselves to see that they’re creations are actually them in manifestation as the sound of equality as foundation. And through this they separated themselves from all of existence as themselves as equality. I suppose you are probably now asking how and why was it then necessary for Anu, Enki, Enlil and Marduk from the planet Neburu to imprison, enslave and capture beings from other planets? The answer to the question is quite simple: See, the consciousness that Anu specifically created, did not have any creational abilities. The reason for this is the following: As I have explained the beings created by the foursome only interpreted their existence through the pictures they were able to see with they’re physical eyes. They were very limited, only able to move around and look and touch and smell, they were able to interpret their existence through being conscious of their surroundings. Yet, they were not able to create as they knew nothing of equality of sound of creation as all other beings in existence were aware of as themselves. The consciousness was different to the other beings in the Universe as conscious embodiments of sound. The consciousness was trapped in a limited world of mere picture like interpretations. The beings were unaware of their existence actually being a manifestation of sound as themselves. Anu found a solution. Anu wanted more, to be able to truly experiment with his creations, he required the ability to control the beings through inserts of information and direct them to do as he intended. He did try this informational directive inserts through initiating sound word frequencies within the conscious frequency they created, but to no avail. It did not manifest no matter what either four of them did. The information would be inserted within the conscious frequency, but because the beings had no initial interpretation of mere sound frequencies or communication models, they did not even react to specific actions that were inserted within them to carry out and do. Their physical manifestations required a life force of sorts to be able to direct the beings into doing exactly as the four instructed them to do. Through using dimensional beings, they were able to take the essence of the beings existence and imprint and infuse it within the physical manifestations. Through imprinting, they created three different integrational levels of interpretation, communication and directive action. The first level would be the four of them inserting information within the beings on exactly how to interpret their existence. The second level would be there to fully integrate the interpretation of their existence as and abstract phase of experiencing themselves, an acceptance level. Where all applications and experiences of the beings became natural and accepted. The third level would be there for when more beings are created within the creation, and all applications and experiences have gone through the first two levels. The third was there so that the new beings who’d be born into the reality called earth, would understand and naturally accept the laws and surroundings and interpretations of their existence. All were levels of informational control, today called the conscious mind (level one), subconscious mind (level two) and the unconscious mind (level three). The conscious mind being thought information applications, firstly integrated and presented to the beings on earth. Once the specific thought informational application integrations within the conscious mind moved into abstract accepted applications of actions within the beings, the applications would move to the subconscious mind. Once it has for a certain period of time become an accepted application, fluently and easily practice and applied, the application would move to the unconscious mind. If one being accepts a specific method of action application, all will accept such application. This 3 level mind application made the foursome’s ability to directively control the beings on earth more easily accessible, as they then did not necessarily have to go to each and every being in their creation and present to them a new form of action application Anu asked them to carry out. They’d insert a specific method of application, let’s say for instance to make a fire by rubbing two pieces of wood together continuously, within one being’s conscious mind. The one being will then carry out such an application and show to other’s. By showing other’s and practicing continuously all will be able to carry out such applications. And soon those born into the reality will be able to carry out and manifest such experiences with absolute ease, this being this specific application manifested within the unconscious mind as an easily accepted method of application. And so it was done. The first beings Anu captured were the Atlantians. As they were the beings who were the purest, finest and most specific essences in all of existence. Who they are and their methods of specific applications were extensively fine tuned and of exact nature and requirement of the foursome’s ex­perimentations wit their physical manifestations on earth. The Atlantians were the first to be enslaved within the foursome’s physical manifestation creations. As soon as the Atlantians were infused within the physical manifestations, they were split in two. One half existed dimensionally and the other half existed within the beings lodged and grounded within the solar plexus to remain there as the power life force of the physical manifestations and creational interpretational abilities. Anu didn’t inform the Atlantians that he did not intend to ever let them go, and Anu also did not inform any of the other three of his true intentions. He misguided the Atlantians through informing them that he merely wanted to use them as guinea pigs for his experimentations within his creations. Naturally because Anu and the other three were well known and respected as the Masters of Creation, the Atlantians unconditionally agreed. Not thinking even twice. Anu created a dimension around earth in which the dimensional half of the beings existed. Within this dimension, the Atlantians were completely stripped of their original sound resonance energy, which meant that they became completely oblivious to their existence of who they are. Anu’s planet Neburu consisted of gold, which flourished on earth and used the beings as slaves to be able carry gold from earth to his planet Neburu. Anu placed himself as a God on earth, creating a religion of himself to validate the beings on earth’s actions and applications to dig and carve gold and leave it in extensive amounts of heaps for Anu’s civilization to collect for their planet. Anu’s empire stretched extensively and the family of Neburu had grown to three times the size of one normal planet on which beings existed when all were equal in application in existence. Thus more and more gold was required and more and more physical manifestations were required to be able to keep up with the demand for gold. The creation from scratch of the physical manifestations, as was done the exact same way as the first, was necessary as well as the capturing of other beings in the universe to stand as the life force of the physical manifestations, until Enlil incorporated genital parts to be able to automatically manifest physical constructs on earth. This initiated Anu’s search and siege of the entire Universe for power and control as he perceived himself to be invincible. The white light was created to control the birthing process of beings into the earth plane. Beings were captured and placed within the dimension where their original sound resonance remembrance of their existence were stripped. Therefore named the White Light. This incorporation was initiated when Enlil created sexual intercourse. Where the manifestations of physical human bodies occurred naturally and beings lost in the White Light dimension automatically integrated within the physical manifestations, split in half. And thus it was then not necessary for them to have to create each individual physical manifestation and individually infuse all captured beings from the outskirts of the universe beyond earth. All became automated and the white light was initially established to control the birthing integration process of dimensional beings to create as many as possible beings on earth. Anu created an entire civilization of his own, seen as a God and all were slaves under his name.

Conspirator
User avatar
Posts: 5302
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:59 am

PostWed Aug 14, 2013 11:09 pm » by Constabul


Bleever wrote:
Constabul wrote:We (humans) have observed and tested.. Various types of evolutionary progression, in insects, plants, animals, and humans. These changes go to even the cellular level.
http://intl-icb.oxfordjournals.org/cont ... 3/492.full Adaptive Evolution in the Lab (insect in lab)
http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/variation/corn/ The Evolution Of Corn (over years of domestication and genetic alteration)
Could, and will if desired, provide additional links for these changes on animals or humans.
To site a few easy examples, are the effects of processed foods, and the changes to various animals through genetic alterations. But I would assume some of these things are already known. Again if curious, just ask.

We know by study of chemicals the composition of minerals, the substances present in the body, and what the body needs to properly function. More so, upon further individual study we know various intolerance, or required adjustments to provide a 'normalized' life. Needless to say the advances in medical studies have come far from the early beginnings.

We know by the study of physics, that those chemicals and elements are formed by protons neutrons electrons, to create atoms. We too can adjust, arrange.. ergo change these. Molecular nanotechnology is a direction we are headed on this scale.
http://phys.org/news/2012-09-molecular- ... cules.html
cool articles if into such things.

We are beginning to, i hope, develop a picture that shows on a small scale our understanding is growing. Small steps here and there, Large leaps from time to time, and huge advancements Meaning 'IMPOSSIBLES' become possible, and eventualities, to everyday procedure.


Adaptive evolution, yes, however, are you trying to address the 'source code' here? FOr instance take the good ole' fruit flie, we have tried thousands and thousands of times to 'stress' these buggers out and every time they are still flies.

Let's slow down here, respectfully, and let's start by a 'change of kind'. Are we able to demonstrate that or can we agree 'species' don't change their kinds due to the missing and massive amounts of new digital info needed to make it happen.

However, shall we assume...adaptive evolution? (again, not disrespect here just trying to get on the same page).


Yes, Adaptive evolution. I will take that as conceding a point of fact, Of evolution.
'are you trying to address the 'source code' here?'
In essence yes, I am discussing it. For while you claim impossible. I site fields of study that are on the path to source coding, and precursors to create life. I can not frame the picture for you, but can show you the paint.

Yes we will talk about 'kinds' or rather speciation, but just to recap on a few..
Going to,.... Go head and throw in Truth defenders comment, cause he seems so excited on this point in the discussion.



Truthdefender wrote:Fruit flies baby! That's where I was going half way through Conts long winded explanation! A computer programmer will acknowledge the lack in evolutionary theory! Where does the new code come from? How does preexisting, prewritten biological code, write new code to do new functions, grow new parts, process new information?

Also great add with the vibrational foundation of the universe, and the "God said" aspect of the argument. Ahhh, the simplicity that is in Christ!

You've been studying well M, and articulate it so much better!




Speaking on fruit flies, briefly, Various experiments have been done resulting in populations of fruit flies to show a marked difference than the general population. This is the beginning of speciation. Or the beginning of new 'kinds'.
Here are more links on a few examples of this
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3790531.stm
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/ ... earn-math/
http://intl-icb.oxfordjournals.org/cont ... 3/492.full
The last one already posted.
http://www.icr.org/article/5779/ is a creation site, who does not get things correct, and has obvious motives.
http://today.uci.edu/news/2010/09/nr_Fr ... 00916.html Took me a bit to find the article it was based from.

The post above which dealt with fruit flies. Provides an example of adaptation and the beginnings of speciation. The flies were stressed, and as a result new ability developed to allow for survival, this development is further defined by selective breeding, isolating the new ability to be passed to new generations. Some were in the realm of 40 generations before sign of this change occurred, other more.
This is a 'piece' of the work behind common decent evolution.
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evo_43
Go here follow along, and it will discuss this further.

Change of 'Kinds' is not new, or undiscovered. Matter of fact we have various evidences in the fossil realm, Of transitional fossils.
http://www.transitionalfossils.com/
These are species transitioning to new species.
Ergo: The evolutionary formation of new biological species, usually by the division of a single species into two or more genetically distinct ones

Here is another example, http://phys.org/news/2011-01-scientists ... e-gas.html
Lets look at whales as an example.

The evolution of whales

The first thing to notice on this evogram is that hippos are the closest living relatives of whales, but they are not the ancestors of whales. In fact, none of the individual animals on the evogram is the direct ancestor of any other, as far as we know. That's why each of them gets its own branch on the family tree.
Image
Hippos are large and aquatic, like whales, but the two groups evolved those features separately from each other. We know this because the ancient relatives of hippos called anthracotheres (not shown here) were not large or aquatic. Nor were the ancient relatives of whales that you see pictured on this tree — such as Pakicetus. Hippos likely evolved from a group of anthracotheres about 15 million years ago, the first whales evolved over 50 million years ago, and the ancestor of both these groups was terrestrial.

These first whales, such as Pakicetus, were typical land animals. They had long skulls and large carnivorous teeth. From the outside, they don't look much like whales at all. However, their skulls — particularly in the ear region, which is surrounded by a bony wall — strongly resemble those of living whales and are unlike those of any other mammal. Often, seemingly minor features provide critical evidence to link animals that are highly specialized for their lifestyles (such as whales) with their less extreme-looking relatives.
Image
Skeletons of two early whales.
Compared to other early whales, like Indohyus and Pakicetus, Ambulocetus looks like it lived a more aquatic lifestyle. Its legs are shorter, and its hands and feet are enlarged like paddles. Its tail is longer and more muscular, too. The hypothesis that Ambulocetus lived an aquatic life is also supported by evidence from stratigraphy — Ambulocetus's fossils were recovered from sediments that probably comprised an ancient estuary — and from the isotopes of oxygen in its bones. Animals are what they eat and drink, and saltwater and freshwater have different ratios of oxygen isotopes. This means that we can learn about what sort of water an animal drank by studying the isotopes that were incorporated into its bones and teeth as it grew. The isotopes show that Ambulocetus likely drank both saltwater and freshwater, which fits perfectly with the idea that these animals lived in estuaries or bays between freshwater and the open ocean.
Image
Isotopic analyses help us figure out the likely habitats of extinct whales like Ambulocetus.
Whales that evolved after Ambulocetus (Kutchicetus, etc.) show even higher levels of saltwater oxygen isotopes, indicating that they lived in nearshore marine habitats and were able to drink saltwater as today's whales can. These animals evolved nostrils positioned further and further back along the snout. This trend has continued into living whales, which have a "blowhole" (nostrils) located on top of the head above the eyes.
Image
As whales evolved increasingly aquatic lifestyles, they also evolved nostrils located further and further back on their skulls.
These more aquatic whales showed other changes that also suggest they are closely related to today's whales. For example, the pelvis had evolved to be much reduced in size and separate from the backbone. This may reflect the increased use of the whole vertebral column, including the back and tail, in locomotion. If you watch films of dolphins and other whales swimming, you'll notice that their tailfins aren't vertical like those of fishes, but horizontal. To swim, they move their tails up and down, rather than back and forth as fishes do. This is because whales evolved from walking land mammals whose backbones did not naturally bend side to side, but up and down. You can easily see this if you watch a dog running. Its vertebral column undulates up and down in waves as it moves forward. Whales do the same thing as they swim, showing their ancient terrestrial heritage.

As whales began to swim by undulating the whole body, other changes in the skeleton allowed their limbs to be used more for steering than for paddling. Because the sequence of these whales' tail vertebrae matches those of living dolphins and whales, it suggests that early whales, like Dorudon and Basilosaurus, did have tailfins. Such skeletal changes that accommodate an aquatic lifestyle are especially pronounced in basilosaurids, such as Dorudon. These ancient whales evolved over 40 million years ago. Their elbow joints were able to lock, allowing the forelimb to serve as a better control surface and resist the oncoming flow of water as the animal propelled itself forward. The hindlimbs of these animals were almost nonexistent. They were so tiny that many scientists think they served no effective function and may have even been internal to the body wall. Occasionally, we discover a living whale with the vestiges of tiny hindlimbs inside its body wall.
Image
Skeleton of the early whale Dorudon. Notice the tiny hind limbs at left below the tail.
This vestigial hindlimb is evidence of basilosaurids' terrestrial heritage. The picture below on the left shows the central ankle bones (called astragali) of three artiodactyls, and you can see they have double pulley joints and hooked processes pointing up toward the leg-bones. Below on the right is a photo of the hind foot of a basilosaurid. You can see that it has a complete ankle and several toe bones, even though it can't walk. The basilosaurid astragalus still has a pulley and a hooked knob pointing up towards the leg bones as in artiodactyls, while other bones in the ankle and foot are fused. From the ear bones to the ankle bones, whales belong with the hippos and other artiodactyls.
Image
At left, the ankle bones of two middle Eocene protocetid archaeocetes, Rodhocetus balochistanensis (left) and Artiocetus clavis (right) from Pakistan, compared to those of the pronghorn Antilocapra americana (center). At right, the ankle region and foot of Basilosaurus. The pulley part of the astragalus (outlined) connects to the tibia and fibula.
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrar ... vograms_04


You can continue along with that, at the provided link.
Now taking in consideration the information above see below.
If there was not adaptive evolution. Gene mutation to add to the existing gene construct. Then we would have finished products that would already be able to encounter, and counter the various effects that are a result of natural, or unnatural processes, But we do not have that. We have changes in real time, more often then not taking generations to achieve.

We do not have finished products, which if you believe bible creation stories, would be required.

Image

some overall useful links if interest exists
http://www.cracked.com/article_19213_7- ... -eyes.html
http://phylointelligence.com/genetics.html
http://www.nature.com/scitable/definiti ... eshift-203
http://science.jrank.org/pages/2612/Evo ... -Rate.html
http://www.livescience.com/3306-fossils ... heory.html
Image
Image

Conspirator
User avatar
Posts: 1728
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 4:12 am
Location: The loving arms of Christ Jesus

PostWed Aug 14, 2013 11:38 pm » by Bleever


Constabul wrote:
Bleever wrote:
Constabul wrote:We (humans) have observed and tested.. Various types of evolutionary progression, in insects, plants, animals, and humans. These changes go to even the cellular level.
http://intl-icb.oxfordjournals.org/cont ... 3/492.full Adaptive Evolution in the Lab (insect in lab)
http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/variation/corn/ The Evolution Of Corn (over years of domestication and genetic alteration)
Could, and will if desired, provide additional links for these changes on animals or humans.
To site a few easy examples, are the effects of processed foods, and the changes to various animals through genetic alterations. But I would assume some of these things are already known. Again if curious, just ask.

We know by study of chemicals the composition of minerals, the substances present in the body, and what the body needs to properly function. More so, upon further individual study we know various intolerance, or required adjustments to provide a 'normalized' life. Needless to say the advances in medical studies have come far from the early beginnings.

We know by the study of physics, that those chemicals and elements are formed by protons neutrons electrons, to create atoms. We too can adjust, arrange.. ergo change these. Molecular nanotechnology is a direction we are headed on this scale.
http://phys.org/news/2012-09-molecular- ... cules.html
cool articles if into such things.

We are beginning to, i hope, develop a picture that shows on a small scale our understanding is growing. Small steps here and there, Large leaps from time to time, and huge advancements Meaning 'IMPOSSIBLES' become possible, and eventualities, to everyday procedure.


Adaptive evolution, yes, however, are you trying to address the 'source code' here? FOr instance take the good ole' fruit flie, we have tried thousands and thousands of times to 'stress' these buggers out and every time they are still flies.

Let's slow down here, respectfully, and let's start by a 'change of kind'. Are we able to demonstrate that or can we agree 'species' don't change their kinds due to the missing and massive amounts of new digital info needed to make it happen.

However, shall we assume...adaptive evolution? (again, not disrespect here just trying to get on the same page).


Yes, Adaptive evolution. I will take that as conceding a point of fact, Of evolution.
'are you trying to address the 'source code' here?'
In essence yes, I am discussing it. For while you claim impossible. I site fields of study that are on the path to source coding, and precursors to create life. I can not frame the picture for you, but can show you the paint.

Yes we will talk about 'kinds' or rather speciation, but just to recap on a few..
Going to,.... Go head and throw in Truth defenders comment, cause he seems so excited on this point in the discussion.



Truthdefender wrote:Fruit flies baby! That's where I was going half way through Conts long winded explanation! A computer programmer will acknowledge the lack in evolutionary theory! Where does the new code come from? How does preexisting, prewritten biological code, write new code to do new functions, grow new parts, process new information?

Also great add with the vibrational foundation of the universe, and the "God said" aspect of the argument. Ahhh, the simplicity that is in Christ!

You've been studying well M, and articulate it so much better!




Speaking on fruit flies, briefly, Various experiments have been done resulting in populations of fruit flies to show a marked difference than the general population. This is the beginning of speciation. Or the beginning of new 'kinds'.
Here are more links on a few examples of this
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3790531.stm
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/ ... earn-math/
http://intl-icb.oxfordjournals.org/cont ... 3/492.full
The last one already posted.
http://www.icr.org/article/5779/ is a creation site, who does not get things correct, and has obvious motives.
http://today.uci.edu/news/2010/09/nr_Fr ... 00916.html Took me a bit to find the article it was based from.

The post above which dealt with fruit flies. Provides an example of adaptation and the beginnings of speciation. The flies were stressed, and as a result new ability developed to allow for survival, this development is further defined by selective breeding, isolating the new ability to be passed to new generations. Some were in the realm of 40 generations before sign of this change occurred, other more.
This is a 'piece' of the work behind common decent evolution.
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evo_43
Go here follow along, and it will discuss this further.

Change of 'Kinds' is not new, or undiscovered. Matter of fact we have various evidences in the fossil realm, Of transitional fossils.
http://www.transitionalfossils.com/
These are species transitioning to new species.
Ergo: The evolutionary formation of new biological species, usually by the division of a single species into two or more genetically distinct ones

Here is another example, http://phys.org/news/2011-01-scientists ... e-gas.html
Lets look at whales as an example.

The evolution of whales

The first thing to notice on this evogram is that hippos are the closest living relatives of whales, but they are not the ancestors of whales. In fact, none of the individual animals on the evogram is the direct ancestor of any other, as far as we know. That's why each of them gets its own branch on the family tree.
Image
Hippos are large and aquatic, like whales, but the two groups evolved those features separately from each other. We know this because the ancient relatives of hippos called anthracotheres (not shown here) were not large or aquatic. Nor were the ancient relatives of whales that you see pictured on this tree — such as Pakicetus. Hippos likely evolved from a group of anthracotheres about 15 million years ago, the first whales evolved over 50 million years ago, and the ancestor of both these groups was terrestrial.

These first whales, such as Pakicetus, were typical land animals. They had long skulls and large carnivorous teeth. From the outside, they don't look much like whales at all. However, their skulls — particularly in the ear region, which is surrounded by a bony wall — strongly resemble those of living whales and are unlike those of any other mammal. Often, seemingly minor features provide critical evidence to link animals that are highly specialized for their lifestyles (such as whales) with their less extreme-looking relatives.
Image
Skeletons of two early whales.
Compared to other early whales, like Indohyus and Pakicetus, Ambulocetus looks like it lived a more aquatic lifestyle. Its legs are shorter, and its hands and feet are enlarged like paddles. Its tail is longer and more muscular, too. The hypothesis that Ambulocetus lived an aquatic life is also supported by evidence from stratigraphy — Ambulocetus's fossils were recovered from sediments that probably comprised an ancient estuary — and from the isotopes of oxygen in its bones. Animals are what they eat and drink, and saltwater and freshwater have different ratios of oxygen isotopes. This means that we can learn about what sort of water an animal drank by studying the isotopes that were incorporated into its bones and teeth as it grew. The isotopes show that Ambulocetus likely drank both saltwater and freshwater, which fits perfectly with the idea that these animals lived in estuaries or bays between freshwater and the open ocean.
Image
Isotopic analyses help us figure out the likely habitats of extinct whales like Ambulocetus.
Whales that evolved after Ambulocetus (Kutchicetus, etc.) show even higher levels of saltwater oxygen isotopes, indicating that they lived in nearshore marine habitats and were able to drink saltwater as today's whales can. These animals evolved nostrils positioned further and further back along the snout. This trend has continued into living whales, which have a "blowhole" (nostrils) located on top of the head above the eyes.
Image
As whales evolved increasingly aquatic lifestyles, they also evolved nostrils located further and further back on their skulls.
These more aquatic whales showed other changes that also suggest they are closely related to today's whales. For example, the pelvis had evolved to be much reduced in size and separate from the backbone. This may reflect the increased use of the whole vertebral column, including the back and tail, in locomotion. If you watch films of dolphins and other whales swimming, you'll notice that their tailfins aren't vertical like those of fishes, but horizontal. To swim, they move their tails up and down, rather than back and forth as fishes do. This is because whales evolved from walking land mammals whose backbones did not naturally bend side to side, but up and down. You can easily see this if you watch a dog running. Its vertebral column undulates up and down in waves as it moves forward. Whales do the same thing as they swim, showing their ancient terrestrial heritage.

As whales began to swim by undulating the whole body, other changes in the skeleton allowed their limbs to be used more for steering than for paddling. Because the sequence of these whales' tail vertebrae matches those of living dolphins and whales, it suggests that early whales, like Dorudon and Basilosaurus, did have tailfins. Such skeletal changes that accommodate an aquatic lifestyle are especially pronounced in basilosaurids, such as Dorudon. These ancient whales evolved over 40 million years ago. Their elbow joints were able to lock, allowing the forelimb to serve as a better control surface and resist the oncoming flow of water as the animal propelled itself forward. The hindlimbs of these animals were almost nonexistent. They were so tiny that many scientists think they served no effective function and may have even been internal to the body wall. Occasionally, we discover a living whale with the vestiges of tiny hindlimbs inside its body wall.
Image
Skeleton of the early whale Dorudon. Notice the tiny hind limbs at left below the tail.
This vestigial hindlimb is evidence of basilosaurids' terrestrial heritage. The picture below on the left shows the central ankle bones (called astragali) of three artiodactyls, and you can see they have double pulley joints and hooked processes pointing up toward the leg-bones. Below on the right is a photo of the hind foot of a basilosaurid. You can see that it has a complete ankle and several toe bones, even though it can't walk. The basilosaurid astragalus still has a pulley and a hooked knob pointing up towards the leg bones as in artiodactyls, while other bones in the ankle and foot are fused. From the ear bones to the ankle bones, whales belong with the hippos and other artiodactyls.
Image
At left, the ankle bones of two middle Eocene protocetid archaeocetes, Rodhocetus balochistanensis (left) and Artiocetus clavis (right) from Pakistan, compared to those of the pronghorn Antilocapra americana (center). At right, the ankle region and foot of Basilosaurus. The pulley part of the astragalus (outlined) connects to the tibia and fibula.
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrar ... vograms_04


You can continue along with that, at the provided link.
Now taking in consideration the information above see below.
If there was not adaptive evolution. Gene mutation to add to the existing gene construct. Then we would have finished products that would already be able to encounter, and counter the various effects that are a result of natural, or unnatural processes, But we do not have that. We have changes in real time, more often then not taking generations to achieve.

We do not have finished products, which if you believe bible creation stories, would be required.

Image

some overall useful links if interest exists
http://www.cracked.com/article_19213_7- ... -eyes.html
http://phylointelligence.com/genetics.html
http://www.nature.com/scitable/definiti ... eshift-203
http://science.jrank.org/pages/2612/Evo ... -Rate.html
http://www.livescience.com/3306-fossils ... heory.html


Thanks for the time and insight you have put together Const.!

Well I think we may be nearing an end to this topic. I think we many need more time to accurately show change in types.

I did look at the http://www.transitionalfossils.com site, and all I can say is "I don't know, man". You may want to take that one out of your repertoire.

I enjoy when we can discuss these things, however, neither of us will budge.

I think Dawkins was on to something when he said, "The machine code of the genes is uncannily computer-like"

or Bill Gates - "DNA is like a computer program but far, far more advanced than any other software we have ever created"

I will leave you with this...

We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door. - Richard Lewontin
Jesus died our death so that we may receive His life.

Conspirator
User avatar
Posts: 5302
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:59 am

PostThu Aug 15, 2013 12:07 am » by Constabul


Bleever wrote:
Constabul wrote:Intelligent design in its various incarnations has been hijacked by a faltering belief. Creationism.
The bible does not mention, or really even elude to the processes we observe at work.

I personally can not see how bible believers can attach onto intelligent design.
It is altering a prescribed set of beliefs, and in such no longer Christianity.
Ive no problem with that.


Well, humbly so, I would submit that in all the known literature (and I may be wrong) God owns it and fully take credit for it in Genesis.

On a sub atomic level, aren't we just bouncing digital code popping up at the right moment the viewer,views it? The bouncing digit appears exactly where it should be upon being viewed, not new or different little digits, but the same digit appearing and reappearing exactly where it should be to denote or 'underwrite' all the we see as matter.

Shouldn't we just reduce this to the lowest common denominator and jump right into the subatomic world?

Hebrews 11:3 - It is with words that world was formed, what is seen is made from what is unseen...

Vibration(s) is/are key here, and only the true creator could speak (vibrational tones) all this into existence.


I think what you impose onto a generic source, such as genesis. Will mean whatever you deem it to, via subjective projection.
Genesis 1:3-2:3
English Standard Version (ESV)

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.

6 And God said, “Let there be an expanse[a] in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” 7 And God made[b] the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. And it was so. 8 And God called the expanse Heaven.[c] And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.

9 And God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry land Earth,[d] and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.

11 And God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants[e] yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth.” And it was so. 12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons,[f] and for days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth.” And it was so. 16 And God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars. 17 And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening and there was morning, the fourth day.

20 And God said, “Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds[g] fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens.” 21 So God created the great sea creatures and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarm, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.” 23 And there was evening and there was morning, the fifth day.

24 And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds—livestock and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so. 25 And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the livestock according to their kinds, and everything that creeps on the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, “Let us make man[h] in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.

28 And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” 29 And God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food. 30 And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the heavens and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so. 31 And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.


None of this, no matter the individual spin, will say anything more then what is said. Tracing root words lead to specific sources that were not, at the time they were used, metaphors for modern observances or discoveries.

Also, I could be wrong too, But i must have missed the part where 'God owns it and fully take credit for it in Genesis.' In the context of what is being discussed.

But lets jump to Hebrews..

Hebrews 11:3
English Standard Version (ESV)
3 By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.


Hebrews 11:3
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
3 By trusting, we understand that the universe was created through a spoken word of God, so that what is seen did not come into being out of existing phenomena.


I personally see a leap from spoken word to cosmic strings and the Observers effect. Tho we will run with it anyway.
Before we do, it is fair to point out different translations give different plays on wording. An that to assume, which is what is being done here, That a metaphor is inking it all together, Modern and theorized physics, and too quantum physics. Is again a projecting for nothing more then self motivating factors.

'By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God'
No link to vibration here, other then the idea of speaking.
'By trusting, we understand that the universe was created through a spoken word of God'.
Even in the additional wording of another source, no mention of vibration, and least of all sting theory.


'so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.'
'so that what is seen did not come into being out of existing phenomena.'
So would the ability to see/detect cosmic strings, or things on this scale preclude this from the quotes above?

If we can modify or create these 'vibrations' does that mean we would be working on the level of God?

just a few clarifications before we jump into a whole physics and quantum physics lesson.

Image
Image

Conspirator
User avatar
Posts: 5302
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:59 am

PostThu Aug 15, 2013 12:37 am » by Constabul


Bleever wrote:
Thanks for the time and insight you have put together Const.!

Well I think we may be nearing an end to this topic. I think we many need more time to accurately show change in types.

I did look at the http://www.transitionalfossils.com site, and all I can say is "I don't know, man". You may want to take that one out of your repertoire.

I enjoy when we can discuss these things, however, neither of us will budge.

I think Dawkins was on to something when he said, "The machine code of the genes is uncannily computer-like"

or Bill Gates - "DNA is like a computer program but far, far more advanced than any other software we have ever created"

I will leave you with this...

We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door. - Richard Lewontin


Well it is like taking a set of instructions, that are 5 pages long. On page 2 stopping and proclaiming God divine hand.
If we have not reached the end, and there only seems to be more discovery looming on the horizon. What point is there in proclaiming god. If god is there, and does not wish to be seen, are we going to see it?
What reason does god have to present his proof via complexity?

I think there is a false premise you are working from here. Which is the result of theological debate.

Scientific discovery is just that, a process of discovery, regardless origin, or motives, it has grown beyond those constraints.

Murphy's law man, soon as you say it wont happen, it cant happen, it is impossible to happen. Life jumps up and slaps you with reality of change and discovery.
There are various examples of savants throwing the monkey wrench into mathematical progression.
In essences making us work backwards to try and figure out the level at which was operated from, before we can go forward again.
Srinivasa Ramanujan, is the fellow i was thinking of above.

In the end bleever, one has to be able to take in information research and determine how best it effects their life or belief.. if it does that at all.
If people find ways to be satisfied on page two, then more power to ya.
Tho i find it hard to take their word on much as other maybe on page 3 and page 4 having a better understanding of processes at work.
Image
Image

Conspirator
User avatar
Posts: 1728
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 4:12 am
Location: The loving arms of Christ Jesus

PostThu Aug 15, 2013 1:10 am » by Bleever


Constabul wrote:
Bleever wrote:
Thanks for the time and insight you have put together Const.!

Well I think we may be nearing an end to this topic. I think we many need more time to accurately show change in types.

I did look at the http://www.transitionalfossils.com site, and all I can say is "I don't know, man". You may want to take that one out of your repertoire.

I enjoy when we can discuss these things, however, neither of us will budge.

I think Dawkins was on to something when he said, "The machine code of the genes is uncannily computer-like"

or Bill Gates - "DNA is like a computer program but far, far more advanced than any other software we have ever created"

I will leave you with this...

We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door. - Richard Lewontin


Well it is like taking a set of instructions, that are 5 pages long. On page 2 stopping and proclaiming God divine hand.
If we have not reached the end, and there only seems to be more discovery looming on the horizon. What point is there in proclaiming god. If god is there, and does not wish to be seen, are we going to see it?
What reason does god have to present his proof via complexity?

I think there is a false premise you are working from here. Which is the result of theological debate.

Scientific discovery is just that, a process of discovery, regardless origin, or motives, it has grown beyond those constraints.

Murphy's law man, soon as you say it wont happen, it cant happen, it is impossible to happen. Life jumps up and slaps you with reality of change and discovery.
There are various examples of savants throwing the monkey wrench into mathematical progression.
In essences making us work backwards to try and figure out the level at which was operated from, before we can go forward again.
Srinivasa Ramanujan, is the fellow i was thinking of above.

In the end bleever, one has to be able to take in information research and determine how best it effects their life or belief.. if it does that at all.
If people find ways to be satisfied on page two, then more power to ya.
Tho i find it hard to take their word on much as other maybe on page 3 and page 4 having a better understanding of processes at work.


Well...hmmm...ok, here is where I respectfully struggle with your viewpoint. Its lacks logic and structure you impose whatever you deem it to, via subjective projection.

A stumbling block,

Constabul wrote:I site fields of study that are on the path to source coding, and precursors to create life.


No you don't. No even close, you do an above average job of skirting the issue. Or, more pointedly, never truly address 'source code' other than to try and splice it and re-attach other 'source codes'.

By the way, the fruit fly stays a fly.

I don't feel you believe half the stuff you post or can concisely articulate its summation. Verbose comes to mind and quite frankly, I terry of such. If presented with true source code, and NOTHING else, no bastardization of it, no possible allusions of it, not what ifs, and they are on the right path, or they are close, or all research points to the possibility....or in all likelihood...just pure source code, you would say, Whoa, dude. And, from across the galaxy God would wink at you.


You resemble a theistic evolutionist, which is an 'open handed' issue to a degree of course. Francis Collins wrote a book right up your alley, called, "The Language of God". Or you are only left with a 'multi-verse explanation. Otherwise you have not stated your position only blurred the lines to "play it safe" in your mind or the eyes of your peers.

I will say this, enough with page, 2 this, or page 5 that, or the subatomic world as being your next 'lesson' for me.
Jesus died our death so that we may receive His life.

Conspirator
User avatar
Posts: 1728
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 4:12 am
Location: The loving arms of Christ Jesus

PostThu Aug 15, 2013 1:30 am » by Bleever


The Cambrian fossil evidence represented a significant challenge to Darwin’s claim “that natural selection had the capacity to produce a novel forms of life. According to Darwin, the ability of natural selection to produce significant biological change depend upon the presence of three distinct elements: 1. Randomly arising variations. 2. Heritability of those variations and 3. A competition for survival, resulting in differences in reproductive success among competing organisms.

Darwin conceded that the BENEFICIAL variations responsible for permanent change in species are both RARE and necessarily MODEST. Major variations in form, what later evolutionary biologists would term “macromuntations”, inevitably produce DEFORMITY and DEATH. Only minor variations meet the test of viability and heritability.
Moreover, it followed that, over human timescales, the benefits of this evolutionary mechanism would be difficult or impossible to spot.

So a perfectly good dinosaur leg could NOT become a bird’s wing, cause the dinosaur would surely die or be eaten over and over again, should his leg have decided I really want to be a bird’s wing. Besides, do you understand how complicated and impressive a bird’s wing is? Sorry no dino leg bone here.

This is yet, just one example of the flawed logic of species “changing kinds” i.e., a dino becoming a chicken.
Jesus died our death so that we may receive His life.


PreviousNext

  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post
Visit Disclose.tv on Facebook