David Icke-Global Fascism or Freedom (Humanity is waking up)

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PostFri Dec 03, 2010 11:07 am » by Mission2live


Kal, I also pointed out that everyone to a greater or lesser extent feels dissatisfaction with the system of human organization that is currently in place, so you are setting up a straw man to knock down by suggesting that I isolated Icke in this point as a criticism of my argument.

Your next criticism is that I am judging him on one video. If you noticed, I prefaced my summation by saying that 'based on this one video this is what I feel'. So you cannot criticise that because I have already said I'm only commenting on that video. I also pointed out where I was taking inference (i.e making a personal view). I'm only a few sentences into your reply and I feel like I'm having to teach you how to think in order that we can have a real time conversation. man this is going to be slow going. But I sense it might be worth it..

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PostFri Dec 03, 2010 11:17 am » by Mission2live


If some thing rings true to you Kal, that doesn't make it true.

The reason I said that he seams to be advocating anarchy is because he says that after this system has crumbled, there will be no system.

David says he is on a transformative journey, so where does the transformation end? what is the final result after this current system has collapsed? I AM TAKING INFERENCE that there may be a role for him in this new world. Perhaps the role he envisaged in his earlier propositions about his messianic status. Maybe his after his initial declarations of greatness did not work he thought, OK I'll bring down the system that doesn't want me as the messiah and create one that does. Notice how I use the words maybe and inference before you start criticising me. Instead of being afraid I might dissolve your beleif system, concentrate on Icke. If I was mentally unbalanced and thought I was the messiah, I wouldn't like the current state of affairs much either.

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PostFri Dec 03, 2010 11:23 am » by Mission2live


You say that People support Icke because of the way he presents information. That can also be said of hitler. All that means is that he's got charisma, and he appeals to your concerns about the world. It doesn't make him a helpful character, it just makes him seem like a helpful character.

I would also point out that 'information' does not necessarilly equate to truth.

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PostFri Dec 03, 2010 11:32 am » by Mission2live


Could I be so bold as to suggest you have developed an emotional attachment to Icke? He would really like to have you around him.
I don't necessarily disagree with icke except in the purely technical and philosophical sense of the word disagree. All I am doing is pointing out weaknesses in his position. Just because his position seems weak doesn't mean it is wrong. But given that just about everything we know is wrong, I wouldn't put any money on Icke.
My personal opinion is that he is a self-serving lunatic. But I am not closed off to evidence to the contrary. I think you would be better served by studying Engles and Marx than Icke. I think you'll find that Marxism has never been practised in human society yet. The versions of communism that the USSR and others have practiced is nothing like marxism. It might be more helpful to your personal cause.

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PostFri Dec 03, 2010 11:41 am » by Mission2live


I would suggest that the revolution you refer to that results in human interdependence is already in motion. It's called globalisation. And it's ultimate destination (when looked upon in a positive light-spot the caveat) is that we need to consider each other in order to 'do business' as it were.
If you think there is such a thing as a human eutopia, I would suggest that that is pretty much impossible as things stand. The very nature of human understanding negates it, as we all have different life experiences and thus different points of view, and thus different ideas of how the world should be. (Usually to suit ourselves by-the-way).


I find it interesting that you say that after this system colloapses it will take a while for a new system to rise up? I would suggest that during this period of uncertainty, there is a fair chance of anarchy, and you should be fighting fit if ever that time arrives.

Kal Good luck m8. I hope it all works out for you. :mrcool:

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PostFri Dec 03, 2010 11:55 am » by Mission2live


By the way. The reason Icke is not forcing you to beleive him is because he can't. If he tried to, you would reject him.

Aw man. I feel like i need to breath clean air after running this shit through my noggin.

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PostFri Dec 03, 2010 2:20 pm » by Mountaingoat


edgarrothstein wrote:
icarium wrote:I didn't realise the exposing bullshitters thing was ironic...that or your shit at spotting bullshitters


Your shit at spotting sarcasm...


Didn't your mommy ever say "Do Not Feed The Trolls" :nope: ?

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PostFri Dec 03, 2010 4:20 pm » by Nyarelathodep


mission2live wrote:By the way. The reason Icke is not forcing you to beleive him is because he can't. If he tried to, you would reject him.

Aw man. I feel like i need to breath clean air after running this shit through my noggin.


You have the predilection of drawing incredibly wild assumptions based on practically nothing save your very limited knowledge about both the man you are talking about, and the people you are talking to about this man.
For challenges to come, we stand against the tide...under the banner of the brave. Mission Aetheria...the future belongs to the brave.

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PostFri Dec 03, 2010 5:11 pm » by Kalinsaast


Well thank you for "teaching me how to have a realtime conversation." I'm sure it will come in handy in the future.....

I'll try to accommodate you this time by using your technique so you don't get lost as i go through you points. Man this is going to be slow going. But I sense it might be worth it..

"Your next criticism is that I am judging him on one video. If you noticed, I prefaced my summation by saying that 'based on this one video this is what I feel'. So you cannot criticize that because I have already said I'm only commenting on that video. I also pointed out where I was taking inference (i.e making a personal view)."

Yeah ok i'll give you that one.

"If some thing rings true to you Kal, that doesn't make it true.

The reason I said that he seams to be advocating anarchy is because he says that after this system has crumbled, there will be no system.

David says he is on a transformative journey, so where does the transformation end? what is the final result after this current system has collapsed? I AM TAKING INFERENCE that there may be a role for him in this new world. Perhaps the role he envisaged in his earlier propositions about his messianic status. Maybe his after his initial declarations of greatness did not work he thought, OK I'll bring down the system that doesn't want me as the messiah and create one that does. Notice how I use the words maybe and inference before you start criticizing me. Instead of being afraid I might dissolve your belief system, concentrate on Icke. If I was mentally unbalanced and thought I was the messiah, I wouldn't like the current state of affairs much either."


Of course just because i believe it, it doesn't make it true. If i said a duck was a dog. It would still be a duck. I have assessed a huge quantity of his information and corroborated it with over a dozen other sources of information. I have made the judgment that the information is true. I am always open to evidence on the contrary. I can't see how i can be expected to have a "realtime conversation with someone regarding a subject they know nothing about.

The transformative journey that David speaks of is a journey that all must go through. He basically refers to people coming to an understanding of their true potential. Which is in essence limitless. You make it sound so cut and dry. He himself had to go through this journey. First he was ridiculed, then he was ostracized from the mainstream, now he is accepted. It's a basic re-awakening to the fact the world doesn't run the way we have been brought up to believe it does, and there is a secret cabal of a few thousand people that really run the world, and do all the string pulling. An awakening to the fact that we have been slaves, our water poisoned, our foods tampered with ,chemicals have been sprayed through the air, and we have been imprisoned through a monetary system that is in the hands of private consortium and corporations. The second part of that is that awakening of the true self. The realization that we are connected to a higher self and that our potential is so much more. That we have ability to tap into this higher self and use the expanded consciousness to think instead of being stuck in the left brain mode of thinking that has been drummed into us since we began school. To utilize, creativity and intuition and positivity, instead of the negative thoughts of self servience. Once people are awakened and realize the need for something better.the less likely there will be violent anarchy. Again you suggest that maybe David saw a place for himself in the world as a messiah. You then suggest he has gone through all of the things he's done to bring the system down and declare himself as messiah. This is what i mean when people who know nothing about Icke fall down. You sir are a stereotypical Icke basher, a different breed. But still that is what you are. If you knew and anything about his transformation from asleep to awake. You would know that, "and even he admits this" the information/message that came to him when he only just began to wake up. "He was the son of god" was misconstrued as it was really meant."We are all the sons/daughters of god" i.e the creator force is inside each and everyone of us. But you sir are clearly going by what you have heard second hand or read in the papers etc. It's a point i have proved time and again through the Icke threads. I am willing to have a constructive conversation with anyone on the man, but it seems that people such as yourself come to the table empty handed. AGAIN.

There is no such thing as a human utopia. How can there be with people serving themselves. How can there be when one class of elites see fit to rule the lower classes. All Icke and people like him offer is information to help one break free from the shackles of control that has been put in place in such a way that one doesn't even know their enslaved. They are right to use the Matrix analogy. For society to evolve people must think on a different level to how we do at the moment. We all must seek a greater imagination, it's not within the realm of impossibility. The more people that are awake the less people there are that will turn to violence. Icke doesn't want to rule the world of the future. He just wants to make it so that his kids aren't living in a police state as slaves. Same as i and many others want for our kids as well.

For you information, my whole world paradigm collapse when i saw the truth of what was really going on in the world. A belief system that i had been brought up in since i was small crumbled around my feet. It took a while but eventually i learned to accept the truth of how reality really is. I'm not afraid of anyone threatening my belief system. Because i haven't got a belief system. I have got an I KNOW system. Something i have seen with my own two eyes. It's not something that can be destroyed.

"You say that People support Icke because of the way he presents information. That can also be said of Hitler. All that means is that he's got charisma, and he appeals to your concerns about the world. It doesn't make him a helpful character, it just makes him seem like a helpful character."

What do you expect the man to do. Make his presentation in the form of riddles.

"Good day to you everyone. I'm gonna start as always with a series of complicated riddles to make it as difficult as possible for you to understand what i'm saying. Ready?.........Riddle me this and riddle me that. It is but it isn't? It was but it wasn't? It's neither here nor there? What is is?"



Now your comparing Icke to Hitler. I tactic employed by you Icke bashers as a scare tactic. I stand by my point. He presents things in a clear manner so that they can be easily researched and corroborated. He also add's colourful pictures which are always nice. I bet Hitler never did that!

"Could I be so bold as to suggest you have developed an emotional attachment to Icke? He would really like to have you around him."

There are many people that i have the utmost respect for in this world. David Icke is one of those near the top of the list. For it was after coming across his video collection "quite by accident i must say" i started to notice things about the world around me. I began to see how the proverbial game was being played. That intern led me on to other researchers, and information. Eventually things became so obvious that my paradigm shifted. So yes if not for David Icke i would still be asleep and on autopilot. He was a BBC presenter that began to have life changing things take place that he couldn't explain, he went on TV and acted on them rather rashly lol. Was ridiculed and his life seemed to be ruined. But infact, it was all part of the journey he was supposed to undertake. He ploughed onward, not looking back. He began he own research and tried sharing what he found out with others. He used to hire a hall out to do a talk. The place would be filled with hundreds of empty chairs. But he still continued. Following his intuition. Till eventually people began to see what he saw. People began taking notice and saying. "Hey this guy has been saying this all along. Maybe we should listen to him now," And now he has become a target for those who feel he is threatening their world view. I don't feel the need to be around Icke lol. I also don't and have never thought that he would like to have me around him. This is just another attempt a veiled sarcasm you have employed in an effort to troll me.

That 's why i 'm not going any further with your points. Please in future do some research on the man you want to argue about. Trying to bait someone at every opportunity thorough sarcasm becomes quite tiresome. But that's some of the tactics ive come to expect on these threads.

"People spend all their lives worrying that something will happen to them. Eventually they end up in their final days of life. When suddenly they realize they've spent so much time worrying. They infact never lived at all". -Myself

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PostFri Dec 03, 2010 5:26 pm » by Drjones


I like your style Kal. :flop:
Explaining things better, more eloquently that i ever could. :)
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