Debunking the Arguments of Christian Fundamentalists and Eva

[Lucidlemondrop Profile]

If god is the creator than he's responsible for the malfunction of his creation. If his prototypes messed up, he should have stoped the production and enhanced his engineering/ceational skills.

You are making too many assumptions for this to be your argument.

You are assuming:
1. "god" is a "responsible" creator ;)
2. that we are "prototypes"
3. that the best course of action would be to "stop the production"
4. that the problem is with "his engineering (and I assume you meant to say) creational skills"

Since your entire argument is one big assumption there is no point in trying to refute it with logic.

This is no assumption because I don't even know if a god exists. And as I don't take for granted that a god exists it's, automaticly, it's the same for the rest that I wrote.
What I meant is that, if you create something, you are responsible for it's actions or behaviour. If you are God, you are not supposed to make mistakes.
Calling Adam end Eve "prototypes" was a methaphore. But I'm sure that you actually understood it ...
Of course should he have "stopped the production".He created people in his own image and they messed things up after a short time...that's not something to be proud of, doesn't look very "supreme" to me.
The whole "eating the apple thing" is senseless, if I was Eve I'd have asked him : do you think I'm stupid? It's like sending a man to a stripper bar...blindfolded and in handcuffs. It's just playing vicious games, not very holy.

You are wat you eat, you are wat eats you.............

[Daemonfoe Profile]

lol i love when christians try to defend direct contradiction.

God:
"Write that, they are created in my image, shall not sin, (including killing), tell them I created the apple, but I blamed that on Satan, and tell them I kill everyone, but it's just a metaphor they are supposed to just "get" even though it's one of the sins I told them not to commit."

"Oh, also tell them to say everything is a metaphor if it someone tells them the bible is contradicting itself."

I mean seriously. I am so sick of idiots who defend this bullshit. Every debate I have ends up with, "well I interpret it this way, you're interpreting it wrong, the bible is hard to interpret, but I understand it all completely."

FFS.

[Kolgoroth Profile]

How dare you tell the Faithful the truth. The one thing that religious bigots cannot stand is hearing the truth. But its unfortunate because in a few days they will pile back into their church, funnel money into the preachers 401k plan, and then leave with a new and bloated sense of self satisfaction as they are told they are the only ones that matter. Remember who you are talking about. These people preach peace and love but then are the first to condemn anyone whose viewpoint is different then theirs.

[Teloc Profile]

lol i love when christians try to defend direct contradiction.

yeah i love zat too.. at least they have smth to defend..

God:
"Write that, they are created in my image, shall not sin, (including killing), tell them I created the apple, but I blamed that on Satan, and tell them I kill everyone, but it's just a metaphor they are supposed to just "get" even though it's one of the sins I told them not to commit."

its about murder, not killing..

which apple?

blamed it on satan? what?

again, its about murder. be sure that god will kill you too when you continue with zis crap..

"Oh, also tell them to say everything is a metaphor if it someone tells them the bible is contradicting itself."

?

I mean seriously. I am so sick of idiots who defend this bullshit. Every debate I have ends up with, "well I interpret it this way, you're interpreting it wrong, the bible is hard to interpret, but I understand it all completely."

FFS.

who says that he understands it completely is.. not trustworthy...

this stuff has come from the above to the below.. from the endless to ze limited... from god to humans...

in how many ways do you think can it be interpreted...

one way?

thousand ways?

6 billion ways?

there is only one truth, but she talks to us in many ways but always in ze same language.. and when u learn to strip naked to the bone.. without shame.. you may learn that language.. as long as youre trying to defend others' opinions withiut knowing why ull not be able to understand...

some things noone else can do for you but urself...

do you really think you could get the understanding of what god is by something in ze f internets or in a book, even the bible?

the bible is the key.. even when the key is in your possession, even when u understand the mechanism.. u still need the will to use it... even if using it means ull die.. and the only thing youll have left will be your belief..

[Mediasorcerer Profile]

the god of the bible,is a gross misinterpretation of something far older and much different,

its beyond the power of any human to define the creative forces that govern the universe,
it makes folks feel smart and smug to think they know.

[Shaneosan Profile]

If god is the creator than he's responsible for the malfunction of his creation. If his prototypes messed up, he should have stoped the production and enhanced his engineering/ceational skills.

You are making too many assumptions for this to be your argument.

You are assuming:
1. "god" is a "responsible" creator ;)
2. that we are "prototypes"
3. that the best course of action would be to "stop the production"
4. that the problem is with "his engineering (and I assume you meant to say) creational skills"

Since your entire argument is one big assumption there is no point in trying to refute it with logic.

This is no assumption because I don't even know if a god exists. And as I don't take for granted that a god exists it's, automaticly, it's the same for the rest that I wrote.
What I meant is that, if you create something, you are responsible for it's actions or behaviour. If you are God, you are not supposed to make mistakes.
Calling Adam end Eve "prototypes" was a methaphore. But I'm sure that you actually understood it ...
Of course should he have "stopped the production".He created people in his own image and they messed things up after a short time...that's not something to be proud of, doesn't look very "supreme" to me.
The whole "eating the apple thing" is senseless, if I was Eve I'd have asked him : do you think I'm stupid? It's like sending a man to a stripper bar...blindfolded and in handcuffs. It's just playing vicious games, not very holy.

They are all still assumptions, even more so if you reason that you "don't even know if a god exists." Never-the-less, I can't prove or disprove the existence of a God either, so lets look at your argument.

You've said that "if you create something, you are responsible for it's actions/behaviour." So, if you build a car and tell people not to drive it into a wall and they do and kill themselves and a bunch of other people riding in that care, then you as the builder of that car are to blame? I would disagree. Now if the account didn't show that "God" warned them, then yes, I would say you are correct. However since it shows he did, I would argue that He didn't make a mistake. Rather it was Adam an Eves choice.

I've made a mistake. You were correct initially. Adam and Eve were prototypes by definition of the word (as defined by fundamental Christians using the source of material (the bible) for this debate)...

As far as 'stopping the production' argument goes, I think doing this would be a sign of weakness on the part of a God. Apparently humans were also created with "free will"... if at the first sign of trouble God were to pull the proverbial plug, what message would that be sending to all other sentient beings (assuming they exist)?

I do agree with you. The whole "eating of the apple" law seems senseless unless it was the only way to prove that humans really did have free will, assuming the account is accurate and true.

We should digress though. This is way off topic. Besides, there are far more challenging issues that could be raised I think.

[Eliakim Profile Website]

God gave the people free will and when the people use their free will to go their own way, and it is leading to self-destruction of people and planet. He then sends a person to help them. If the people then refuse that help there is nothing more that he can do.

Noah tried to warn the people they didn't listen and that applies to most of the prophets. In most cases exile was the result or planetary devastation. Not the first time that civilizations have wiped themselves out by overuse of natural resources. Easter Island is one example of that.

We tried to warn the people about Obama they didn't listen. So basically they got what they chose with their free will, devastation.

I did not put all the effort in save myself, I did it to help you all to save yourselves.

[Daemonfoe Profile]

its about murder, not killing..

Thou shall not murder? No. Thou shall not kill. I find it laughable that anyone would defend this saying God didn't sin because he "killed", not "murdered" as if there's a difference... and even when they know the bible says "kill" not "murder", but then this leads us into the realm of interpretation. really?

which apple?

ummmm.... the forbidden fruit?

blamed it on satan? what?

I suppose the bible says Satan created the forbidden fruit? No. But it's evil so it must be Satan's deed. Satan tricked them into eating it, but who created it? Not Satan.

again, its about murder. be sure that god will kill you too when you continue with zis crap..

ROFL. Direct contradiction here. It's about murder, but God will kill me? Really? God will kill me which is somehow not murder?

"Oh, also tell them to say everything is a metaphor if it someone tells them the bible is contradicting itself."

?

ROFL ROFL. YOU JUST INTERPRETED THE WORD "KILL" AS A METAPHOR FOR MURDER! ROFL ROFL ROFL.

I mean seriously. I am so sick of idiots who defend this bullshit. Every debate I have ends up with, "well I interpret it this way, you're interpreting it wrong, the bible is hard to interpret, but I understand it all completely."

FFS.

who says that he understands it completely is.. not trustworthy...

this stuff has come from the above to the below.. from the endless to ze limited... from god to humans...

in how many ways do you think can it be interpreted...

one way?

thousand ways?

6 billion ways?

there is only one truth, but she talks to us in many ways but always in ze same language.. and when u learn to strip naked to the bone.. without shame.. you may learn that language.. as long as youre trying to defend others' opinions withiut knowing why ull not be able to understand...

some things noone else can do for you but urself...

do you really think you could get the understanding of what god is by something in ze f internets or in a book, even the bible?

the bible is the key.. even when the key is in your possession, even when u understand the mechanism.. u still need the will to use it... even if using it means ull die.. and the only thing youll have left will be your belief..

Dude. You are contradicting yourself all over the place.

You're saying that you can't understand what god is by reading the bible, but then you go directly into saying, the bible is the key and you can understand the "mechanism".

Get this simple thing through your head. If God created everything, he created EVERYTHING. He created the past present and the future. He created our ability to understand and have compassion, but if his half-ass attempt at our ability for compassion and good will fails, it's ok for him to break his own laws then blame it on our free will and MURDER us.