Debunking the Arguments of Christian Fundamentalists and Eva

Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:46 pm » by **Demobe**

Debunking the Arguments of Christian Fundamentalists and Evangelists
:peep:

Quiz: The Death Toll List - God vs. Satan

According to Christian tradition, God is all good, while Satan is all evil. Therefore, you would think that their actions in the Bible reflect this as well. However, take a look at this death toll tally sheet below, taken off an interesting website which tallies up the murders and atrocities by God vs. Satan. The results are shocking and seem totally contradictory to the traditional stereotype! (The murders where the number killed is mentioned in the Bible are listed by count, and the murders where the number killed is not given are listed with a "?" question mark.)

You can show this list to Christians and ask them to take the quiz below it. But so far, none of them have been willing to answer the quiz questions! When you see the quiz, you’ll know why!

http://www.angelfire.com/ky/nogod/deathtoll.html

Killed by God

? -- Drowned everyone in the whole world except for Noah and his family (Genesis 7)

1 -- Saltified Lot's wife (Genesis 19:26)

? -- Burned all of the people of Sodom and Gomorrah (except for "good" Lot who offered his virgin daughters to a mob of men and then slept with both of them himself later)

1 -- Slew Er, Judah's firstborn son (Genesis 38:7)

1 -- Killed Er's brother, Onan because he spilled semen on the ground so as not to conceive offspring for his brother's wife whom he was forced to marry (Genesis 38:9-10)

? -- The firstborn in all of Egypt (Exodus 12:29)

? -- Drowned the pharoah and all of his gang in the Red Sea (Exodus 14:26-28)

2 -- Nadab and Abihu for making a fire

? -- Burned some Jews for complaining

? -- Sent a plague against Jews for being greedy

11 -- Sent a plague on Jews who gave the chosen land a bad report

? -- Korah and other Jews who didn't like Moses

? -- The Lord causes the earth to open and swallow up the men and

their families because they had been rebellious (Numbers 16:27-33)

250 -- A fire from the Lord consumes 250 men (Numbers 16:35)

14,700 -- Sent a plague on Jews apparently for the hell of it (Numbers 16:49)

"many" -- Sent serpents on Jews (Numbers 21:6)

24,000 -- Plague killed Jews who followed Baal (Numbers 25:9)

? -- Philistines

50,070 -- Jews who looked in the ark of the covenant (1 Samuel 6:19)

1 -- Nabal for scorning David

1 -- Uzzah for touching the ark when trying to keep it from falling

1 -- David and Bathsheba's child

70,000 -- Sent a pestilence because David sinned (2 Samuel 24:15)

51 -- Fire from heaven consumes the prophets of Baal (2 Kings 1:10-12)

102 -- Sent fire down on Ahaziah's men

42 -- Sent bears to kill children who mocked Elisha (2 Kings 2:23-24)

? -- Sent lions to kill invaders

185,000 -- Assyrians (2 Kings 19:35)

80,000 -- Lots of bad Israelites

___________________________________________

399,933 + ? -- Total killed by God!

Killed on God's orders by his followers

? -- Jacob's sons killed every man in Shechem

3,000 -- Jews worshipping the golden calf (Exodus 32:27-29)

1 -- Man gathering wood on the Sabbath Day (Numbers 15:32-36)

? -- Canaan (Numbers 21:3)

? -- The Lord commands Moses to kill the people and expose them in broad daylight so that the Lord's anger may be turned away from Israel (Numbers 25:4)

? -- Took the city of Heshbon from the Amorites

? -- All of the people of Bashan

? -- All Midianites except for the virgin girls (Numbers 31:17-18)

? -- The Israelites destroy the men, women, and children of Sihon leaving no survivors after the Lord gave them over to them (Deuteronomy 2:33-34)

? -- The Israelites destroy the men, women, and children of Og after the Lord gave them over to them (Deuteronomy 3:6)

? -- Everyone in Jericho but Rahab, a hooker who betrayed her city (Joshua 6:21-27)

? -- Achan and his family (who had nothing to do with it) for stealing (Joshua 7:19-26)

12,000 -- Joshua utterly smites the people of Ai with the God's approval (Joshua 8:22-25)

? -- Everyone in the cities of Ai, Amalek, Makkedah, Libnath, Lachish, Egnolites,

Jarmuth, Geder, Hebronites, Debirites, Hormah, Arad, Addellam, Bethel,

Tappuah, Hepher, Apheh, Lasheron, Madon, Tasnach, Megiddo, Kedesh,

Jokneam, Dor, Goiim, Terzah, Gibeonites and all of the Amorites.

10,000 -- Canaanites of Bezek (Judges 1:4)

10,000 -- The Israelites kill the Moabites with the help of the Lord (Judges 3:29)

? -- The people of Jerusalem, Sheshai, Ahiman, and Talmai

? -- The people of Zephath, Gaza, Ashkelon, Ekron, and the king of Moab, Eglon.

? -- The army of Sisera and the men of Karkor

? -- Jephthah destroyed 20 cities

30 -- The Spirit of the Lord comes Samson and causes him to slay thirty men

(Judges 14:19)

1000 -- Under the Spirit of the Lord, Samson slays 1000 men with the jawbone of an ass (Judges 15:15)

3000 -- Samson, with the help of the Lord, pulls down the pillars of the Philistine house and causes his own death and that of 3000 other men and women (Judges 16: 27-30)

50,100 -- The men of the tribe of Benjamin (Judges 20:35, 43-48)

? -- The tribe of Jabesh-gilead

? -- The Ammonites, the Philistines and the Amelekites

331,269 -- David killed a whole bunch of people

3 -- Solomon killed a few people too

? -- All of Jeroboam's extended family

? -- All of Baasha's extended family

450 -- Prophets of Baal

793,000 -- All Jewish Baal-followers

127,000 -- Arameans slain by the Israelites with the help of the Lord (1 Kings 20:28-30)

1 -- Man who wouldn't strike a prophet

? -- Moabites

172 -- Jezebel, Ahab's sons, Joram, their priests, and their friends

142 -- Ahaziah's relatives

? -- The sacrifice of the firstborn of Israel so that the Lord might horrify them.

? -- All of Baal's followers

1 -- Athaliah for killing sons

1 -- Mattan the Baal priest

10,002 -- Edomites and two servents

? -- All of the pregnant women in Tirzah

20,000 -- Hezekiah killed a bunch of people

500,000 -- Israelites killed each other

50,000 -- Ethiopians

23,000 -- Seerites

510 -- Haman's army

75,300 -- More of the army

___________________________________________

2,017,956 + ? -- Total killed by God's followers under his orders!

So the grand total comes to:

399,933 Killed by God

+ 2,017,956 Killed by God’s followers

= 2,417,889 + ? people killed by God and his followers under his orders PLUS an unknown amount which probably number into the millions, including the whole world at the time of Noah, and over 60 whole cities!

vs.

Killed by Satan

? -- Satan killed Job's children after God gave him permission to.

Now, show that death toll list above to any Christian and ask them the following questions to shock them big time!

Q1) Who has killed more people overall, God or Satan?

Q2) Which is the bigger sinner, the average human being who's never killed

anyone, or the God of the Bible who's killed at least 2.5 million people?

Q3) Who has committed more crimes, YOU or the God of the Bible, who's killed millions of people according to the Bible? If your answer is you, then explain what crimes you’ve committed that’s worse than killing millions of people.

Q4) Who is the bigger sinner, YOU or the God of the Bible? If your answer is you, then explain what you've done that's worse than killing millions of people.

So far, no Christian has been willing to take this quiz!

Biblical Atrocities Links

Here are links to extensive lists of things in the Bible that most of you never knew existed, since the church is only willing to quote a small percentage of the Bible to you. And that’s because if they quoted the rest, they know they wouldn't be able to keep you any longer.

Bible Atrocities This is a long list of horrendous atrocities, sanctioned and approved by God, which make the atrocities in Spielberg's "Schindler's List" look like Walt Disney.

BIBLICAL VULGARITIES & OBSCENITIES These, well I hope you have the stomach for these.

The XXX-rated Bible An easy to navigate list of unsavory Bible quotations.

Evil Biblical Stupidity This vulgar and tasteless site has a list of Biblical atrocities as well as many links to many fine articles.

The Bible A dramatic compact site which also links several fascinating articles and sites.

About the Holy Bible Oh and last but not least, here is Mr. Robert Ingersoll's one of many essays where he mentions Biblical atrocities and comments on them himself as well. Very well written.

Atrocities committed by Christians throughout history

The Christian Horror Picture Show Here is a site with a slide show depicting the atrocities committed throughout history from the Middle Ages to the Nazi Era. Includes detailed pictorial drawings and paintings.

Also see the history of what Christians have done, such as the Inquisition and Witchhunts.

http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/Debunk ... Page22.htm

Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:49 pm » by **Otoel**

42 -- Sent bears to kill children who mocked Elisha (2 Kings 2:23-24)

LOL The Lord has a good sense of humor...

Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:10 pm » by **Shaneosan**

I am neither a Christian fundamentalist or an Evangelist, but I would like to play the "devils advocate" to your post... just for the hell of it.

According to fundamentalist Christians, the God of the bible told Adam and Eve not to eat from the tree of knowledge... that it was a sin against Him (who gave them life) and if they did so, they would die. The devil told them God was lying to them... and that by eating from the tree the would "become like God, knowing good from bad"

They choose to eat the fruit. Apparently God wasn't lying. Humanity entered into a state of "sin" and the consequence of that sin is death.

Therefore any death that was to follow those actions are a direct correlation to the spoken contractual agreement outlined by God (if you are inclined to believe this mumbo jumbo)

Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:12 pm » by **Otoel**

shaneosan wrote:I am neither a Christian fundamentalist or an Evangelist, but I would like to play the "devils advocate" to your post... just for the hell of it.

According to fundamentalist Christians, the God of the bible told Adam and Eve not to eat from the tree of knowledge... that it was a sin against Him (who gave them life) and if they did so, they would die. The devil told them God was lying to them... and that by eating from the tree the would "become like God, knowing good from bad"

The choose to eat the fruit. Apparently God wasn't lying. Humanity entered into a state of "sin" and the consequence of that sin is death.

Therefore any death that was to follow those actions are a direct correlation to the spoken contractual agreement outlined by God (if you are inclined to believe this mumbo jumbo)

Are we Adam manifesting himself over and over, and every "avatar" of him gets to choose between Truth or Lies? Until a point when all has been experienced and ADAM returns to God?

Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:18 pm » by **Shaneosan**

Are we Adam manifesting himself over and over, and every "avatar" of him gets to choose between Truth or Lies? Until a point when all has been experienced and ADAM returns to God?

You would have to ask a Christian Fundamentalist... or James Cameron

Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:45 pm » by **Nelusmc**

The question you have to ask is why did he do what he did? First off lets read the book of Enoch. The Watchers came upon the earth and intermingled with women bore Giants and these Giants were fed manna from heaven yet they refused and started eating Humans. Then on top of that these giants intermingled with other species forming all kinds of Hybrids upon the earth. Known to us as mythologies half human half animal and so forth. So what God created became corrupt and abominations before him. That's why many deaths were allowed by God.
The corruption of Humanity had taken place before the flood. And it has not stopped even till now. These beings are still manipulating DNA and corrupting the image of God which is us. An example of this manipulation is the cross breading of the so called Alien Abduction and so forth. So before you judge the judge of all creation get your facts straight.

Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:01 am » by **Kaarmaa**

shaneosan wrote:I am neither a Christian fundamentalist or an Evangelist, but I would like to play the "devils advocate" to your post... just for the hell of it.

According to fundamentalist Christians, the God of the bible told Adam and Eve not to eat from the tree of knowledge... that it was a sin against Him (who gave them life) and if they did so, they would die. The devil told them God was lying to them... and that by eating from the tree the would "become like God, knowing good from bad"

They choose to eat the fruit. Apparently God wasn't lying. Humanity entered into a state of "sin" and the consequence of that sin is death.

Therefore any death that was to follow those actions are a direct correlation to the spoken contractual agreement outlined by God (if you are inclined to believe this mumbo jumbo)

If god is the creator than he's responsible for the malfunction of his creation. If his prototypes messed up, he should have stoped the production and enhanced his engineering/ceational skills.

Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:05 am » by **Teloc**

demobe wrote:
Q1) Who has killed more people overall, God or Satan?

Q2) Which is the bigger sinner, the average human being who's never killed

anyone, or the God of the Bible who's killed at least 2.5 million people?

Q3) Who has committed more crimes, YOU or the God of the Bible, who's killed millions of people according to the Bible? If your answer is you, then explain what crimes you’ve committed that’s worse than killing millions of people.

Q4) Who is the bigger sinner, YOU or the God of the Bible? If your answer is you, then explain what you've done that's worse than killing millions of people.

So far, no Christian has been willing to take this quiz!

by definition and chosing im a chistian.. not only zat.. im a roman catholic christian and im gonna answer your beginners questions gladly, so you can go on on your long hard road to salvation, brother d-mobe..

first, let me give you a small critcism of your exegetic approach which is ze literal one. maybe even you have found, that by interpreting everything literally, some things turn awkward even in your lil sinners' world.. like everytime when you say to someone "you can suck my dick!" you dont really expect that to happen, or do you?

thats why there are no less than four ways, in which the bible should be examined...

Q1: Satan
Q2: the average joe
Q3: me
Q4: me

the key to the gate of understanding is the realization of your narrowness. this implies ze killing of your pride, which implies the awareness of, at the same time: your greatness and your filthiness.

the trigger is not the killer..

Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:19 am » by **Lucidlemondrop**

teloc wrote:
demobe wrote:
Q1) Who has killed more people overall, God or Satan?

Q2) Which is the bigger sinner, the average human being who's never killed

anyone, or the God of the Bible who's killed at least 2.5 million people?

Q3) Who has committed more crimes, YOU or the God of the Bible, who's killed millions of people according to the Bible? If your answer is you, then explain what crimes you’ve committed that’s worse than killing millions of people.

Q4) Who is the bigger sinner, YOU or the God of the Bible? If your answer is you, then explain what you've done that's worse than killing millions of people.

So far, no Christian has been willing to take this quiz!

by definition and chosing im a chistian.. not only zat.. im a roman catholic christian and im gonna answer your beginners questions gladly, so you can go on on your long hard road to salvation, brother d-mobe..

first, let me give you a small critcism of your exegetic approach which is ze literal one. maybe even you have found, that by interpreting everything literally, some things turn awkward even in your lil sinners' world.. like everytime when you say to someone "you can suck my dick!" you dont really expect that to happen, or do you?

thats why there are no less than four ways, in which the bible should be examined...

Q1: Satan
Q2: the average joe
Q3: me
Q4: me

the key to the gate of understanding is the realization of your narrowness. this implies ze killing of your pride, which implies the awareness of, at the same time: your greatness and your filthiness.

the trigger is not the killer..

People kill more for the devil inside

Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:21 am » by **Shaneosan**

kaarmaa wrote:If god is the creator than he's responsible for the malfunction of his creation. If his prototypes messed up, he should have stoped the production and enhanced his engineering/ceational skills.

You are making too many assumptions for this to be your argument.

You are assuming:
1. "god" is a "responsible" creator ;)
2. that we are "prototypes"
3. that the best course of action would be to "stop the production"
4. that the problem is with "his engineering (and I assume you meant to say) creational skills"

Since your entire argument is one big assumption there is no point in trying to refute it with logic.