DID THE HOLOCAUST ACTUALLY HAPPEN?

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PostWed Jun 24, 2009 4:28 pm » by Dazfromoz


concrete wrote:This is an interesting question.

Which holocaust are you talking about?

The Ukrainians? The Armenians? the Native Americans? The people from a country once known as Palestine? The Tamils? The Vietnamese? The Aboriginals?

Or, is there a trademark on the term?


This a very very good point, mass murder has been committed throughout history by more than a few meglomaniacs. I will offer no opinion other that to say that if all the evidence is look at from a nutural stand point there arises many questions as to the validy of the numbers and various methods used to murder those poor unfortunite souls.

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PostWed Jun 24, 2009 4:35 pm » by Aaaaa


Wow, all the Muslims in Disclose are busy distributing propaganda
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PostWed Jun 24, 2009 4:37 pm » by Cornbread714


concrete wrote:
cornbread714 wrote: But the evidence remains: the photos, the stories of the survivors (all lies?)


The photos. Maybe. But, the one thing that always does my head in. If so many died from the killing macine. Howcome there are so many survivors?
It doesn't make sense.
If you were under orders to kill. Just fecking kill! Don't herd them together. Don't use vital supply lines to ship prisoners to a camp, just so you can kill them. Just fucking shoot them where they stand! Don't bury them. Let the rot spread to kill the rest of the living in the camps.

As I said. None of what we have been told makes sense. Yes. People died. There is no deniying that. But for a military machine (Germany) who did not declare war on either England or the US of A. To waste resources by shipping many people on trains (that could be used for munittions), just to kill them?
No, Sir. I do not believe that.


Man, they were shipping Jews right here out of Amsterdam and all over Eastern Europe. Have you read any real history, man?

http://sorrel.humboldt.edu/~rescuers/bo ... lland.html

July 1942: Deportations of Jews out of Holland begin.

"Two concentration camps are established in Holland, Westerbork and Vught, from which Jews are shipped to other camps, primarily Auschwitz."
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PostWed Jun 24, 2009 4:47 pm » by Cornbread714


How about this, Concrete?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 570247.ece

Dutch rail firm to apologise for role in deporting Jews
From Anthony Browne, Brussels Correspondent

SIXTY-TWO years to the day after the last train packed with Jews left Amsterdam for the Nazi gas chambers in Eastern Europe, the Dutch national railway company will publicly acknowledge for the first time the role it played in the Holocaust.

In a ceremony next week, Aad Zeeman, the chief executive of Nederland Spoorwegen, will accept that his company collaborated with the Nazi occupiers by deporting 107,000 Dutch Jews, as well as hundreds of Gypsies and homosexuals, to concentration camps such as Auschwitz, Sobibor and Birkenau. Fewer than 5,500 Jews returned.

A spokesman for Nederland Spoorwegen said: “It’s an acknowledgement we had a role. We’ve never acknowledged it before — it’s always been a difficult subject, inside the company and outside the company.”

The apology, which comes at a time of rising religious tension in the Netherlands, will be made at Muiderpoort station in Amsterdam, from where the last mass deportation train left on September 29, 1943. It will be followed by an anti-racism poster campaign across the Dutch rail network. One poster reads: “Then the Jews had to go. Who is next?” Another says: “Previously, the train to Auschwitz left from here. When will the world become wiser?”

After the murder of the film-maker Theo van Gogh last year, the Netherlands descended into a maelstrom of religious violence, with dozens of firebomb attacks on Islamic schools and mosques, tit-for-tat attacks on churches, and a rise in anti-Semitic attacks. “We want to show history as a lesson for the recent changes in society,” the rail spokesman said.

Nederland Spoorwegen agreed to acknowledge its role after a campaign by CJO, the Netherlands’ main Jewish group, which thought that the part played by the railways had been “underexposed”.

Ruben Zis, a spokesman for Nederland Spoorwegen, said: “Jews were integrated then, and they are integrated now. But people were indifferent, they didn’t care. It can happen anywhere, any time.”

Despite its liberal reputation, the Netherlands sent a greater proportion of its Jews to the gas chambers than any other country in Nazi-occupied Europe, a fact that weighs heavily on the Dutch national conscience. Of the prewar population of 140,000 Jews, 107,000 were deported, and 75 per cent of Dutch Jews were killed. Although many Dutch non-Jews helped Jews — most famously Anne Frank — there was little resistance to the deportations after an early protest was crushed. Dutch historians have also blamed the efficient Dutch civil service and railways for the high deportation rate.

The clampdown on Dutch Jews started shortly after the Netherlands surrendered in May 1940. Ghettoes were set up, Jews were rounded up and herded to an internment camp at Westerbrook, before mass deportations by train started in July 1942. In December 1943, the Netherlands was declared “Judenrein” or “Jew free”.

Nederland Spoorwegen says that its management had no choice but to collaborate with the Nazis, and that at first they did not understand the purpose of the deportations. The Nazi authorities claimed the Jews were being transported as part of a “resettlement programme in the east”. Initially old passenger trains were used, but eventually Jews were herded into cattle trucks, with the largest trains taking 3,000 people. The journey took three days.
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PostWed Jun 24, 2009 4:48 pm » by Adamflownemo


Image

AUSCHWITZ FIGURE OFFICIALLY DECREASED FROM 4 MILLION TO 1.1 MILLION



In 1990, however, the Yad Vashem Holocaust Museum in Israel and the Auschwitz Holocaust Museum decided that they would come out and publicly admit that 4 million did not die at Auschwitz. They officially revised the total to about 1.1 million. That’s quite a revision, isn’t it? Here’s the new plaque, which was put up at Auschwitz after 1990. It says that 1.5 million died there (apparently they rounded the 1.1 million figure up to 1.5 million).
Image

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PostWed Jun 24, 2009 4:52 pm » by Cornbread714


adamflownemo wrote:Image

AUSCHWITZ FIGURE OFFICIALLY DECREASED FROM 4 MILLION TO 1.1 MILLION



In 1990, however, the Yad Vashem Holocaust Museum in Israel and the Auschwitz Holocaust Museum decided that they would come out and publicly admit that 4 million did not die at Auschwitz. They officially revised the total to about 1.1 million. That’s quite a revision, isn’t it? Here’s the new plaque, which was put up at Auschwitz after 1990. It says that 1.5 million died there (apparently they rounded the 1.1 million figure up to 1.5 million).
Image




Wow, ONLY 1.5 million at ONE CAMP!
That's hardly worth even getting upset about. Pardon me, Nazis...
Why that's not genocide, no, maybe it was natural causes...

OK, I'm wrong.

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PostWed Jun 24, 2009 4:55 pm » by Muchtyman


cornbread714 wrote:How about this, Concrete?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 570247.ece

Dutch rail firm to apologise for role in deporting Jews
From Anthony Browne, Brussels Correspondent

SIXTY-TWO years to the day after the last train packed with Jews left Amsterdam for the Nazi gas chambers in Eastern Europe, the Dutch national railway company will publicly acknowledge for the first time the role it played in the Holocaust.

In a ceremony next week, Aad Zeeman, the chief executive of Nederland Spoorwegen, will accept that his company collaborated with the Nazi occupiers by deporting 107,000 Dutch Jews, as well as hundreds of Gypsies and homosexuals, to concentration camps such as Auschwitz, Sobibor and Birkenau. Fewer than 5,500 Jews returned.

A spokesman for Nederland Spoorwegen said: “It’s an acknowledgement we had a role. We’ve never acknowledged it before — it’s always been a difficult subject, inside the company and outside the company.”

The apology, which comes at a time of rising religious tension in the Netherlands, will be made at Muiderpoort station in Amsterdam, from where the last mass deportation train left on September 29, 1943. It will be followed by an anti-racism poster campaign across the Dutch rail network. One poster reads: “Then the Jews had to go. Who is next?” Another says: “Previously, the train to Auschwitz left from here. When will the world become wiser?”

After the murder of the film-maker Theo van Gogh last year, the Netherlands descended into a maelstrom of religious violence, with dozens of firebomb attacks on Islamic schools and mosques, tit-for-tat attacks on churches, and a rise in anti-Semitic attacks. “We want to show history as a lesson for the recent changes in society,” the rail spokesman said.

Nederland Spoorwegen agreed to acknowledge its role after a campaign by CJO, the Netherlands’ main Jewish group, which thought that the part played by the railways had been “underexposed”.

Ruben Zis, a spokesman for Nederland Spoorwegen, said: “Jews were integrated then, and they are integrated now. But people were indifferent, they didn’t care. It can happen anywhere, any time.”

Despite its liberal reputation, the Netherlands sent a greater proportion of its Jews to the gas chambers than any other country in Nazi-occupied Europe, a fact that weighs heavily on the Dutch national conscience. Of the prewar population of 140,000 Jews, 107,000 were deported, and 75 per cent of Dutch Jews were killed. Although many Dutch non-Jews helped Jews — most famously Anne Frank — there was little resistance to the deportations after an early protest was crushed. Dutch historians have also blamed the efficient Dutch civil service and railways for the high deportation rate.

The clampdown on Dutch Jews started shortly after the Netherlands surrendered in May 1940. Ghettoes were set up, Jews were rounded up and herded to an internment camp at Westerbrook, before mass deportations by train started in July 1942. In December 1943, the Netherlands was declared “Judenrein” or “Jew free”.

Nederland Spoorwegen says that its management had no choice but to collaborate with the Nazis, and that at first they did not understand the purpose of the deportations. The Nazi authorities claimed the Jews were being transported as part of a “resettlement programme in the east”. Initially old passenger trains were used, but eventually Jews were herded into cattle trucks, with the largest trains taking 3,000 people. The journey took three days.


I wish you well on this cornbread ; Last time there was a thread like this , it turned very ugly indeed and I certainly lost the plot .

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PostWed Jun 24, 2009 4:56 pm » by Aaaaa


cornbread714 wrote:
concrete wrote:
cornbread714 wrote: But the evidence remains: the photos, the stories of the survivors (all lies?)


The photos. Maybe. But, the one thing that always does my head in. If so many died from the killing macine. Howcome there are so many survivors?
It doesn't make sense.
If you were under orders to kill. Just fecking kill! Don't herd them together. Don't use vital supply lines to ship prisoners to a camp, just so you can kill them. Just fucking shoot them where they stand! Don't bury them. Let the rot spread to kill the rest of the living in the camps.

As I said. None of what we have been told makes sense. Yes. People died. There is no deniying that. But for a military machine (Germany) who did not declare war on either England or the US of A. To waste resources by shipping many people on trains (that could be used for munittions), just to kill them?
No, Sir. I do not believe that.


Man, they were shipping Jews right here out of Amsterdam and all over Eastern Europe. Have you read any real history, man?

http://sorrel.humboldt.edu/~rescuers/bo ... lland.html

July 1942: Deportations of Jews out of Holland begin.

"Two concentration camps are established in Holland, Westerbork and Vught, from which Jews are shipped to other camps, primarily Auschwitz."

Have you read any real history, man?



Of course you know the bogus deceitful Islamic "history" of how they invented mathematics and medicine
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PostWed Jun 24, 2009 4:58 pm » by Cornbread714


muchtyman wrote: I wish you well on this cornbread ; Last time there was a thread like this , it turned very ugly indeed and I certainly lost the plot .


It's already ugly. Don't worry, I got the truth on my side.
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PostWed Jun 24, 2009 4:59 pm » by Drextin


The germans kept impeccable records.

There were so many survivors simply because they could not kill large numbers sufficiently. They tried. Gassing was their best option followed by forced labor to the death. As the war dragged on they couldn't afford to shoot them because they had to save ammo.

The actual number doesn't matter. 6 million or 1 million the intention was all the same.

What I find amusing is that people can question the holocaust yet the actual persecution is well documented. The laws that were passed stripping the jews of their rights.....was well documented. The ghettos they forced many of them to live in is well documented. The taking of their homes, businesses and and anything of value is well documented. So with all of that not even coming close to being disputable how much farther of a stretch is it to determine that the final solution was genocide?
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