Do firm political beliefs render pure logic useless?

Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:04 pm » by **Tuor10**

A few years ago, I was politically active. I was what some might call a Nationalist. I was a member of UKIP (United Kingdom Independence Party) but had sympathies for other established Nationalist parties.
I feel now - looking back - that I was driven into nationalist after being brought up in a multicultural society. This feeling was finally entrenched when I went to university, and witnessed first hand the lunacy of the far-left; and the utter disdain they exhibited to the notion of Britain and its past. Thus I found British nationalism.
I looked upon what I saw, and found that it sat well with my nostalgic thinking at the time. I was studying history; and I always had a reverence for Britain's illustrious past. So becoming an activist nationalist seemed like the right choice. I flirted with the idea of becoming a member of the British national party; but due to some fears on my part - namely being black-listed and removed from university - because those affiliated with the BNP were being witch hunted by the state, and hounded out of the states institutions. I did attend a few meetings, and found some of the views propagated utterly antiquated. That said, I was impressed by a few of the speakers; especially some of the economic ideas that were being thrown about. But after much deliberation, I felt that the core ideology of the BNP was a tad to extreme for my liking. So I joined UKIP.

After a few years being active in UKIP, and tasting first hand the experience of campaigning, I found that I enjoyed the cut and thrust. I enjoyed the debates; and I enjoyed belittling leftist dogma; for it seemed to me at the time that leftism was evil incarnate; and anything that I could do to besmirch it was fair game. My whole thinking was constructed around a premise that I totally believed in. A premise that I believed everyone should believe in. So much so that I fell out with friends over my beliefs.
It is safe to say that while being involved in all this, I begun to become someone else, because my whole thought pattern was created around my dogma. Thus even against my better judgements, I would follow my beliefs without actually stopping to properly analyse - logically - what I was doing. Eventually, this aberration from logic would lead me into trouble.

A few years ago, whilst studying for my masters, we had a guest lecturer. His expertise was in the British fishing industry. His lecture was as boring as hell, but I had to listen to it. Then, at the end of the lecture, we had a Q&A session. I asked a question about the logic in allowing foreign vessels from the EU, to fish British waters. I expected an answer from him, but what I got was a bit of a dressing down, because he felt that I had asked the question in an inappropriate manner; and also went on to say that it didn't have much to do with the lecture. Maybe he was right; but the fact that he clearly had a leftist attitude, annoyed me. Anyway, I basically told him what I thought of him and his lecture, and was nearly kicked out of University. I was lucky that I got on well with one of the professors.
After that incident, I begun to contemplate some things. I wondered why I felt the need to bring my politics into a lecture about the British fishing industry. I then thought about the lecturers response. It dawned on me that both our responses were caused by our political beliefs. We had acted illogical and irrational, out of a sense of duty to our political affiliations. It didn't really matter that it was irrelevant to the topic at hand.
It was at this point that I begun to become disillusioned with nationalist politics, and politics as a whole. I felt that I had done myself a disservice. I had become a different person. I was angry, and unable to logically approach things. Even my essays became percolated with my political beliefs.
From that period up-until now, it has been a learning process for me. I have found that becoming to emotionally entangled in something like politics (religion also creates the same outcome; but that is another story for another time) renders logic redundant.

I now look at politics like this: Conservatives want to keep the status quo intact; liberals want to reform everything; socialists want to control everything vestige of a persons life; and nationalism is full of nostalgia, and not much else in the way of productive and innovative ideas germane to modernity. Logic does not form the basis of opinion. Opinion is formed through the narrow prism of ideology. Ideology that has been contrived in order to spread dogma.

I am now an impartial observer. I feel that I can hold the high ground this way. :mrgreen:

Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:14 pm » by **Mydogma**

Ya oddly people don't get that they have put the partys needs and wants ahead of their country....they should, I believe abolish partys..they becom nothing more then a mob..moreso when they scre up$$...they hid it because they don't want it to affect their party..fuk the country...defend the lie at all costs...the hardline dem or rep have no idea they are duped from the top down...brainwashed for the betterment of the party

Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:16 pm » by **Tuor10**

mydogma wrote:Ya oddly people don't get that they have put the partys needs and wants ahead of their country....they should, I believe abolish partys..they becom nothing more then a mob..moreso when they scre up$$...they hid it because they don't want it to affect their party..fuk the country...defend the lie at all costs...the hardline dem or rep have no idea they are duped from the top down...brainwashed for the betterment of the party

The party system is just a form of divide and rule.

In reality, they are the same product, but labelled differently.

Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:40 pm » by **Noentry**

I am sorry to say it bro.
You where born at least 500 years early,
That is how long it will take for the rest of the world to catch up with you.

your journey, your empowerment came from within.
Not many like you around.

:flop:

Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:45 pm » by **Tuor10**

noentry wrote:I am sorry to say it bro.
You where born at least 500 years early,
That is how long it will take for the rest of the world to catch up with you.

your journey, your empowerment came from within.
Not many like you around.

Thanks for the kind words, my friend.

:cheers:

Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:50 pm » by **E6722maj**

politics (all of it) is a soulless egomaniacal competition for power. ergo a firm belief in any political system, at least as anything other than a chance to line one's pockets (which ALL politicians do, all the time) is intrinsically worthless, thus an illogical concept. politics stinks as bad as religion :badair:

.

Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:52 pm » by **Tuor10**

e6722maj wrote:politics (all of it) is a soulless egomaniacal competition for power. ergo a firm belief in any political system, at least as anything other than a chance to line one's pockets (which ALL politicians do, all the time) is intrinsically worthless, thus an illogical concept. politics stinks as bad as religion

.

Very well said.

:cheers:

Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:19 pm » by **Jet17**

Alot of what you describe sounds like contemplations, mixed with some politics.

politics itself is a contemplations of policy, or what you feel is right or wrong.

add a dash of morality and / or bigotry and you have politics.

If you defend a certain "Party" then yes I am afraid that you have lost your logic, because everyone in a certain party does not share the same beliefs, however others will still support that particular party as a means of keeping some sort of "belief" alive (even though that is hardly the case in most circumstances)

If everyone thought the same way, it would be a very boring place.

I might think one way, but could be completely trumped and shown that my way of thinking was incorrect, and might eventually warm up to those ideals.

I think maybe what made you think otherwise about your beliefs is that you were a minority in thought against the lecturer, and you felt that maybe because of the way you were treated, or the way that everyone thought otherwise of your said opinion, it made you contemplate yourself a little more.

who knows though, I don't think defending general philosophies is a good idea ever. I think you must strip things down to their essentials and analyze if they are for the betterment of your creed, or if they are for the betterment of people that just want to receive power.

it is that aspect that I disagree with emaj, I believe politics and the evil he is describing is because of individuals themselves, not with a body that itself have no way to change itself. It's all about the people that you put into office, like when America was founded, we had a good thing, then it went to shit because people wanted more and more from our treasury and security from our government. Now people believe you can't live without all of these government oversights, which causes even more need for power hungry "throne sitters."

Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:38 pm » by **Eldorado**

Partisan Politics Vs. Interpretive and Deductive Reasoning .......HMMMMM....

you are right....firm in their stubborn ignorance of the reality of their own situation.....HAHHAHA

Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:41 pm » by **Rydher**

I agree with Jet said.