Doggerland and the Ancient Cataclysm

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PostThu Sep 09, 2010 3:28 pm » by Electrobadgr

We have all heard of the legends of Atlantis and Lemuria and although debate rages on as to whether or not these civilisations existed or not, most would accept that it is certainly a distinct possibility. Records suggest that there was some knid of cataclysmic event approximately 10,000 - 12,000 years ago which condemened a large chunk of the earths land mass to the bottom of the briny deep. We see evidence of this off the coast of Japan where stunning ancient temples can be found.

A little closer to home however there is evidence of a landmass which used to connect the UK with mainland europe, this was known as Doggerland and it seems to have suffered the same fate, quite possibly at the hands of the same destructive global event.

Doggerland is a name given by archaeologists and geologists to the former landmass in the southern North Sea that connected the island of Great Britain to mainland Europe during and after the last Ice Age. Geological surveys have suggested that Doggerland was a large area of dry land that stretched from Britain's east coast across to the present coast of the Netherlands and the western coasts of Germany and Denmark.[2] The land was likely a rich habitat with human habitation in the Mesolithic period.[3]

The archaeological potential of the area had first been discussed in the early 20th Century, but interest intensified in 1931 when a commercial trawler operating near the sandbank and shipping hazard known as the Dogger Bank (from dogge, an old Dutch word for fishing boat), dragged up an elegant, barbed antler point that dated to a time when the area was a tundra. Later vessels have dragged up mammoth and lion remains, among other remains of land animals, as well as small numbers of prehistoric tools and weapons which were used by the region's inhabitants.
Map showing hypothetical extent of Doggerland (c. 8,000BC), which provided a land bridge between Great Britain and continental Europe

The red line marks Dogger Bank, which is most likely a moraine formed in the Pleistocene.[1]


Before the first glacial period of the current Pleistocene-Holocene Ice Age the Rhine river flowed northwards through the North Sea bed at a time when the North Sea was dry. It is thought that a Cenozoic silt deposit in East Anglia is the bed of an old course of the Rhine. The Weald was twice as long as it is now and stretched across the present Strait of Dover; the modern Boulonnais is a remnant of its east end.

With glaciation, when Scandinavian and Scottish ice first met and formed a giant ice dam, a large proglacial lake then formed behind it, which received the river drainage and ice melt from much of northern Europe and Baltic drainage through the Baltic River System. The impounded water eventually overflowed over the Weald into the English Channel and cut a deep gap which sea erosion later widened gradually into the Strait of Dover.

During the most recent glaciation, the Devensian glaciation which occurred around 10,000 years ago, the North Sea and almost all of the British Isles were covered with glacial ice and the sea level was about 120 metres (390 ft) lower than it is today. Much of the North Sea and English Channel was an expanse of low-lying tundra, extending around 12,000BC as far as the modern northern point of Scotland.[4]

Evidence including the contours of the present seabed shows that after the first main Ice Age the watershed between North Sea drainage and English Channel drainage extended east from East Anglia then southeast to the Hook of Holland, not across the Strait of Dover, and that the Thames, Meuse, Scheldt and Rhine rivers joined and flowed along the English Channel dry bed as a wide slow river which at times flowed far before reaching the Atlantic Ocean.[4][3] At about 8000BC, the north-facing coastal area, now called Doggerland, had a coastline of lagoons, marshes, mudflats, and beaches. It may have been the richest hunting, fowling and fishing ground in Europe available to the Mesolithic culture of the time.[3][5]
[edit] Disappearance

As sea levels rose after the end of the last glacial period of the current ice age, and the level of the land sank due to isostatic adjustment, Doggerland became submerged beneath the North Sea, cutting off what was previously the British peninsula from the European mainland by around 6500BC.[4] The Dogger Bank, which had been an upland area of Doggerland, is believed to have remained as an island until at least 5000BC.[4] Prior to its complete flooding, Doggerland formed a wide, undulating plain containing a complex meandering river system, with associated channels and lakes. Key stages are now believed to include the gradual evolution of a large tidal embayment between eastern England and Dogger Bank by 7000BC, and rapid sea level rise thereafter, leading to the development of Dogger Bank as an island and the final physical disconnection of Great Britain from the continent.[6]

A recent hypothesis is that much of the remaining coastal land, already much reduced in size from the original land area, was inundated by a tsunami around 8200BP (6200BC), caused by a submarine landslide off the coast of Norway known as the Storegga Slide. This theory suggests "that the Storegga Slide tsunami would have had a catastrophic impact on the contemporary coastal Mesolithic population... Following the Storegga Slide tsunami, it appears, Britain finally became separated from the continent and, in cultural terms, the Mesolithic there goes its own way."[6]
[edit] Discovery and investigation by archaeologists

The remains of plants brought to the surface from Dogger Bank had been studied as early as 1913 by palaeobiologist Clement Reid and the remains of animals and worked flints from the Neolithic period had been found around the fringes of the area.[7] In his book The Antiquity of Man, published in 1915, anatomist Sir Arthur Keith had discussed the archaeological potential of the area.[7] Then, in 1931, the trawler Colinda hauled up a lump of peat whilst fishing near the Ower Bank, 25 miles (40 km) east of Norfolk. The peat was found to contain a barbed antler point, possibly used as a harpoon or fish spear, 8.5 inches (220 mm) long, later identified to date from between 4,000 and 10,000 years ago, when the area was tundra.[3][5] The tool was exhibited in the Castle Museum in Norwich.[5]

Interest in the area was reinvigorated in the 1990s by the work of Prof. Bryony Coles, who named the area "Doggerland" ("after the great banks in the southern North Sea"[5]) and produced a series of speculative maps of the area.[5][8] Although she recognised that the current relief of the southern North Sea seabed is not a sound guide to the topography of Doggerland,[8] the topography of the area has more recently begun to be reconstructed more authoritatively using seismic survey data obtained through petrochemical exploration surveys.[9][10]

A skull fragment of a Neanderthal, dated at over 40,000 years old, was recovered from material dredged from the Middeldiep, a region of the North Sea located some 10 miles (16 km) off the coast of Zeeland, and was exhibited in Leiden in 2009.[11]

In March 2010 it was reported that recognition of the potential archaeological importance of the area could affect the future development of offshore wind farms in the North Sea.[12]
[edit] In popular culture

* The "Mammoth Journey" episode of the BBC television programme Walking with Beasts is partly set on the dry bed of the southern North Sea.
* The area also featured in the "Britain's Drowned World" episode of the Channel 4 Time Team documentary. [13]
* The first chapter of Edward Rutherfurd's novel Sarum describes the flooding of Doggerland.
* The legend "The Cormorants of Utrøst"[14] describes a sunken land in the Norwegian Sea (not in the North Sea).
* Science fiction author Stephen Baxter's Northland trilogy is set in an alternate timeline where Doggerland (Northland in the books) was not inundated. ... rland.html

Addendum: The Doggerland Revelations

In the four years since I originally posted these speculations, two interesting pieces of information have come to my attention.

Earlier in this essay, I suggested that the original speakers of proto-Germanic could be identified with the Magdalenian reindeer hunters who spread northward from southern France into England, Germany, and Denmark -- as indicated by the blue arrows on the map below -- during the waning years of the last Ice Age.

I accepted, however, the conventional wisdom that the hypothetical Germanic language of the eastern part of England had been wiped out by a subsequent expension of Celtic speakers and that modern English is the descendent of continental Germanic languages from northern Germany or Denmark -- the area indicated by the pale blue circle on the map -- whose speakers are known to have invaded England in the fifth centuiry AD.

Post ice-age migrationsIt appears now that this is not necessarily so.

In March 2007, the New York Times ran an article discussing the DNA evidence for the theory that the English and the Irish are both largely descended from late Ice Age migrants, with only a small genetic contribution from more recent invaders. This article extensively cited the conclusions of Stephen Oppenheimer, but it also included these eye-catching paragraphs:

Dr. Oppenheimer has relied on work by Peter Forster, a geneticist at Anglia Ruskin University, to argue that Celtic is a much more ancient language than supposed, and that Celtic speakers could have brought knowledge of agriculture to Ireland, where it first appeared. He also adopts Dr. Forster’s argument, based on a statistical analysis of vocabulary, that English is an ancient, fourth branch of the Germanic language tree, and was spoken in England before the Roman invasion. . . .

Germanic is usually assumed to have split into three branches: West Germanic, which includes German and Dutch; East Germanic, the language of the Goths and Vandals; and North Germanic, consisting of the Scandinavian languages. Dr. Forster’s analysis shows English is not an off-shoot of West Germanic, as usually assumed, but is a branch independent of the other three, which also implies a greater antiquity. . . .

Historians have usually assumed that Celtic was spoken throughout Britain when the Romans arrived. But Dr. Oppenheimer argues that the absence of Celtic place names in England — words for places are particularly durable — makes this unlikely.

Foster's ideas have understandably not been well-received by linguists. He is, after all, a mere geneticist -- and one whose conclusions fly in the face of all conventional theory. However, if only because they align so closely with my prior speculations, I have to take them seriously.

If Foster is correct, then the blue arrows on the map above correspond precisely with his four branches of Germanic -- English with the left-hand arrow, West Germanic with the lower right-hand arrow, which points to the Netherlands and northern Germany, East Germanic with the arrow that zooms off to the right, and North Germanic with the two small arrows that head up into Denmark and Sweden.

That would be interesting enough in itself, but there's also a second piece to the story..

In April 2007, an article appeared describing how archaeologists were mapping a "lost country" beneath what is now the North Sea, between Britain and the Netherlands. Hunter-gatherer communities had thrived there between about 10,000 and 6000 BC, when it was drowned by rising sea levels as the last of the Ice Age glaciers melted.

DoggerlandIn the map, present-day Britain is shown on the left, with part of Ireland beyond it. The present-day Netherlands are on the right, and Doggerland is in between and connected to both.

A later article from July 2008 (which now appears to be available only as paid content) provided additional details, including the provocative notion that "Mesolithic people have in the past been depicted by researchers as restless nomads and Doggerland as a land bridge through which they passed without leaving a trace. The new map suggests that, on the contrary, Doggerland would have been an ideal environment for them to linger in."

In fact, the article suggests that Doggerland may have been such a rich environment that its inhabitants were not nomads at all, but had the luxury of a sedentary lifestyle -- something that has been available to hunter-gatherers in only a few optimal locations, such as prehistoric Japan and the Pacific Northwest.

It seems as though we might conceive of Doggerland almost as a kind of local, small-scale Atlantis, whose gradual submergence forced its inhabitants to migrate to Britain on the west and the Netherlands on the east. As they did so, they could have maintained their sedentary ways by acquiring the new techniques of agriculture, which were just then arriving from the east and south.

Additional evidence is provided by the Frisian language and culture. These days, the Frisians amount to some 400,000 people living in one province of the Netherlands and speaking their own distinctive language. In the Dark Ages and Middle Ages, however, they extended much further up and down the North Sea coast. (The pale circle on the map indicates roughly the present location of Friesland.)

Frisian has the distinction of being the closest of any language to English. There is even a bit of traditional doggerel which was concocted to demonstrate the point. It runs, "'Good butter and good cheese' is good English and good Fries." (Some excellent translations of Bob Dylan songs into Frisian help make the case as well.)

The unique closeness of this relationship has always provided something of a problem for the theory that English is descended from the languages of German and Danish invaders who came from much further east than Friesland.. However, if we accept that both English and Frisian have been spoken in their current locations for the last 10,000 years -- and that the proto-English which gave rise to both of them was also the language of lost Doggerland -- the paradoxes vanish.

The only unanswered questions that remain have to do with what the the potentially sophisticated Mesolithic culture of Doggerland might actually have been like -- and what traces it may have left in the societies on either side of the North Sea that it influenced. ... ithic.html

Researchers Find Submerged Lost World
Map shows the size of the land mass named Doggerland.

For decades, archaeologists and scientists have believed a land bridge connected Britain with the rest of Europe, but now say a sizeable land mass joined the two until about 10,000 years ago.

For now, they’re calling the new land Doggerland, named after the Dogger Bank, a large sandbank in the North Sea. Indications are that Doggerland was an ideal environment for Mesolithic people, complete with fertile plains and majestic rivers. Rising sea levels at the end of the last ice age consumed Doggerland and turned Britain into an island. Scientists want to determine whether the land mass sank gradually - as has been presumed until recently - or if a sudden geological upheaval could have caused sea water to suddenly submerge the large area.

Archaeologists and other researchers were able to determine the likely size and shorelines of Doggerland through use of seismic information Petroleum Geo-Services, a Norwegian oil company, loaned to them, as well as with computer modeling based on geological information.

For over a century, fishing boats have been finding prehistoric artifacts in the North Sea. Much of the material – such as bones of wooly mammoths - date from the Palaeolithic age that ended 10,000 years ago. But other recovered artifacts are from the later Mesolithic period. “Now we’ll be able to position these archaeological finds within the landscape to understand their meaning,” says Hans Peeters of the National Service for Archaeology in the Netherlands. ... isited.php

The Pyramids of Scotland Revisited

By Jeff Nisbet

(Originally published in Atlantis Rising #76 – July/August, 2009. Note that any graphic mentioned, but not shown in the following article, can be viewed within the body of my original 2002 article, “The Pyramids of Scotland,” which can be read in my Articles Archive.)

The Internet has become the long and investigative arm of Everyman, and in no field of inquiry is this more apparent than in genealogy. The new breed of genealogical cybersleuth has shown that ordinary people share an abiding interest in their past, where they came from, and how they got where they are today.

If societies are the sum of their parts, we might then assume that the ancient Egyptians entertained those same motives when they built their pyramid complex at Giza exactly where they did.

But first, lets go to a more recent time.

Photo of Uri GellerOn February 11, 2009, several UK newspapers reported that the Israeli “spoon bender” of the 1970s, Uri Geller, had purchased Scotland’s tiny Lamb Island, and that my 2002 Atlantis Rising article, “The Pyramids of Scotland”, had inspired the purchase. It was enough to create a huge increase in my website traffic, and to waken my article from its seven-year slumber.

Lamb Island, a.k.a. The Lamb, sits about a mile from the seaside town of North Berwick, and was the central island of three that I claimed mirrored the layout of the belt stars of the constellation Orion, which, according to the hotly debated Orion Correlation Theory, were also mirrored in the layout of the “Gizamids.”

I had demonstrated how Orion’s stars, acting with Sirius, an important star in Egyptian cosmology, dictated the locations of several sacred sites connected to the Knights Templar, the order of warrior monks exterminated in 1307 for reasons that still spark controversy. One of those sites, Rosslyn Chapel, would later capture worldwide attention in Dan Brown’s “The Da Vinci Code.”

The correlation also showed connections with Tara, legendary seat of the High Kings of Ireland, and with Dunsinane Castle, one-time repository of Scotland’s Stone of Destiny, the fabled stone thought to have been brought to Scotland by followers of Egyptian Princess Scota, a legend told by Walter Bower, Abbot of Inchcolm, in his 15th-century history, “The Scotichronicon.”

Academics dismiss that legend as a tale fabricated to give Scotland’s monarchs an ancient lineage, and ignore such discoveries as the UK excavations of Egyptian artifacts, the superabundance of a common strain of Mitochondrial DNA in both regions, and a Bradley University report claiming that Egypt imported certain construction techniques from Scotland. Moreover, the Scotichronicon is not the legend’s only record. Travel writer William Dalrymple claims that a letter to Charlemagne from English scholar Alcuin refers to the Scots as “Pueri Egyptiaci,” the Children of Egypt, and author Ralph Ellis traces the story’s origin back farther, to Manetho’s 300BC “History of Egypt.”

But I’ve discovered much more.

Walter Ferrier, in his 1980 “The North Berwick Story,” explains the etymology of the town’s name, writing that Bere is the Old English word for “barley,” and Wic means “village.” In “Star Names: Their Lore and Meaning,” Richard Hinckley Allen reports that in the Egyptian “Book of the Dead” Orion was known as Smati-Osiris, the Barley God.

In my article I drew attention to a mid-17th-century map on which The Lamb was named Long Bellenden -- curious because it is the shortest of the three islands. I then speculated that the islands may have been “one long island at some point, carved from the mainland by a cataclysm the ancient ‘mythmakers’ would only hint at, and then cut into three,” and that the nearby North Berwick Law, just three feet shorter than Giza’s Great Pyramid, might have been “shaped” into the pyramidal form we now recognize it by. My theories, needless to say, have met with some amusement in certain quarters, and I’m told that one alternate researcher has been known to go for a few cheap laughs at my expense.

Nevertheless, I’ve since found two local folk tales that suggest a bit of “terraforming” might indeed have occurred.

* The Tale of the Saint: Legend has it that there once existed a rock that was a danger to shipping. A monk named Baldred miraculously moved it around the coast and out of harm’s way, creating a geological feature since known as St. Baldred’s Boat.
* The Tale of the Devil: One day the Devil was strolling up the surf, and so frightened a local woman that she let out a shriek. Startled, the Devil dropped his walking stick and splashed away. His stick shattered, becoming the three islands in my article. The nearby Bass Rock, upon which can be seen the ruins of Baldred’s Chapel, is also known as the Devil’s Hoof.

And then there are the lions.

Lying next to The Lamb is the sleeping lion that many see in the shape of Craigleith Island, and 20 miles to the west stands Arthur’s Seat, the sphinx-shaped extinct volcano that dominates Edinburgh’s skyline. A third lion may be seen in Scotland’s Royal Standard, the flag that shows a red rampant lion, and archaeologist Mark Lehner has established that the Great Sphinx was once painted red.

The fourth lion is found in the Legend of Lyonesse, the tale of a land that sunk beneath the waves off England’s southwest coast. Etymologically, however, the name has been traced as an alteration of the French word Léoneis, which itself developed out of Lodonesia, the Roman name for Lothian. North Berwick lies in East Lothian.

Within a day of Geller’s purchase a conversation began on the Cabinet of Wonders website. One poster duplicated my original graphic and confirmed that Sirius, the alpha star of constellation Canis Major, did indeed fall on Inchcolm Island, where Walter Bower compiled his Scoticronichon (Map 1, below). Interestingly, the poster discovered that the constellation’s beta star, often referred to as “The Herald” because it rises before Sirius, fell within Edinburgh, and wondered if the spot held significance. In fact, it fell on an area I knew well – an area named Starbank Park, which has a star cut out in the slope of its hill, flanked by two crescent moons, with a circular area above, presumably the sun. I have been unable to discover how the park was named, but it is not unlikely that Edinburgh’s Grand Lodge of Freemasons might have had a hand in it.

Inchcolm lies within sight of Starbank Park, and there is a local tradition that names it “Isle of the Druids.” Eighteenth-century intellectual Thomas Paine, in his treatise on “The Origin of Freemasonry,” claims that the fraternity’s roots are found in the solar-centric religion of the Druids, the priestly caste extant in Britain during the Roman occupation, driven underground by the rise of Christianity. Paine attributes the importance of freemasonic secrecy to fear, observing, “When any new religion over-runs a former religion, the professors of the new become the persecutors of the old. We see this in all instances that history brings before us,” and concludes that “this would naturally and necessarily oblige such of them as remained attached to their original religion to meet in secret, and under the strongest injunctions of secrecy. Their safety depended upon it.”

By far the most obvious freemasonic symbology, however, appears to be rooted in Egyptian cosmology, but the fraternity has forgotten why. Also, in Masonic ritual great emphasis is placed on Geometry, exemplified by the enigmatic “G” within the craft’s ubiquitous square and compass insignia, and on the cardinal directions of the geographic compass.

Frank C. Higgins’ 1919 “Ancient Freemasonry: An Introduction to Masonic Archaeology” states that the 23.5º angle and its 47º double are two of Freemasonry’s “Cosmic Angles,” and that they “are encoded on coins showing pre-Christian Phoenician temples of Cypress, ancient Greek paintings of Hermes and Ceres, as well as in the Masonic Keystone and Compass of the present day.”

To those two numbers we should add a third -- 33 -- the highest attainable degree of rank in Scottish Rite Freemasonry, as well as the number of the latitudinal line along which, for reasons unknown, many of the world’s sacred sites are located. Using these three numbers I have discovered an ancient message encoded by the pyramid builders. To understand that message, and its implications, we must first consider the Prime Meridian.

The Prime Meridian is an invisible line that stretches between the North and South Poles, which, due to the rotation of the Earth, passes the sun every 24 hours. It calibrates the hours of the day around the world, and begins the first of 360 vertical slices of one degree each. Its position is arbitrary, but in 1884 it was agreed that Greenwich, UK, should mark the International Prime Meridian, and it has done so ever since.

The Great Pyramid sits 31.08 degrees east of Greenwich, and researchers Scott Creighton and Gary Osborn have recently demonstrated that Freemasonry’s cosmic angles of 23.5 and 47 degrees, relating to Earth’s axial tilt, have been encoded in its internal geometry, and Osborn has found those same angles encoded in countless works of art over many centuries.

I decided that any civilization advanced enough to build the GP would likely have used its position to mark its own Prime Meridian. Then I counted 33 degrees to the west, to Morocco’s Atlas Mountains, and established that the meridian that today runs north to south through a point 1º 52´ West of Greenwich would, to the pyramid builders, have marked their own 33rd meridian. So I then drew a horizontal line between the GP and that point, and then another directly north along that ancient 33rd (Map 2). Incredibly, my second line all but kissed four major English sacred sites on its way to the north -- Stonehenge, Silbury Hill, Avebury, and Thornborough, the huge three-henge complex confirmed as “the world’s first monument aligned to Orion’s belt stars” -- before nearing the border of Scotland at the Holy Isle of Lindisfarne, perhaps indicating that this ancient 33rd meridian may have once been as sacred and important as today’s 33rd parallel, and possibly have been the Prime Meridian before Giza (Map 3).
But that’s when things got really interesting.

The four islands that had figured so mightily in my “Pyramids of Scotland” article -- Orion’s Belt Star islands and the Isle of May -- lay in the rectangle formed between the ancient 33rd and 34th meridians and the 23rd to 23.5 degree parallels north of today’s 33rd (Map 4). Astonishingly, using the three most significant Freemasonic numbers, two of which relate to Earth’s axial tilt, the geometry from the GP’s ancient Prime Meridian pointed the way to the North Berwick area and, once there, those same numbers helped enclose the area of the North Sea wherein my belt-star islands and The May lay. Even more incredible, I discovered that the line I had drawn between Tara and The May, seven years ago, followed a 47º angle, as did a line drawn from the eastern edge of Lindisfarne and The May, creating a 47º pyramid with The May at its apex -- perhaps, symbolically, the GP’s missing capstone. Due to the enormous distance involved I have been unable to establish if the Lindisfarne line continues exactly to Giza, but I’d lay odds on it. And finally, I have calculated that the distance between the GP and North Berwick equals one-tenth the circumpolar circumference of the Earth.

The Isle of May that my original Orion Correlation pointed to was an important site of Christian pilgrimage in the middle ages. Recent archaeological excavations, however, have shown that the site has been in use since at least the Bronze Age. Could it be that the Great Pyramid, thought by some to be built by the survivors of the cataclysm that destroyed Atlantis, built the GP where they did in order to geodetically point the way back to their former homeland? Could it be that Princess Scota’s people, when they left Egypt, were not heading to parts unknown, but were simply heading home?

That inhabited land once existed between Scotland and Scandinavia has been confirmed by Exeter University’s Doggerland Project, named after the Dogger sandbank where prehistoric artifacts have been dredged up. Could the Isle of May have been anciently revered as the last remaining vestige of that sunken land yet remaining above the waves?

And could the Doggerland area have been just part of a much larger Atlantis?

Comyns Beaumont, in his 1946 “The Riddle of Prehistoric Britain,” speculates that Atlantis encompassed the entire British Isles, and that only some of it sank due to a comet strike that also tipped the Earth into its present-day 23.5º angle. Moreover, he says, the center of Atlantis lay on the Isle of Mull, off the west coast of Scotland. I have calculated that Mull is now precisely 23.5 degrees north of the present-day 33rd parallel and, if Beaumont’s comet-strike theory be given just a modicum of credence, would have then lain just a few miles to the west of the Straights of Gibralter, the Pillars of Hercules in Plato’s account of the sinking of Atlantis. Might not Plato have been hiding (yet ultimately revealing) the truth of things by couching his tale in geodesics? Might he not have just as surely been saying that Atlantis once lay just beyond where the Pillars of Hercules now lay, before it shifted 23.5 degrees to the north?

To sum up: There once was a land that sank beneath the sea due to a cataclysm that tilted the Earth’s axis into its present-day 23.5º angle -- an event that was the source of all the world’s far-flung flood legends. The survivors built, or caused to be built around the world, huge structures that fixed their new location in the cosmos, and built the Gizamids to establish a Prime Meridian that mathematically memorialized an earlier Prime Meridian exactly 33º to the west, along which were built at least three of the best-known megalithic sites in Britain, thereby also encoding the location of their pre-deluvian homeland, 23.5º north of where it originally lay, and 33º south of today’s North Pole. What are the chances that the freemasonic numbers 23.5, 33, and 47 would lead us to a small patch of the globe containing three islands laid out in the pattern of Orion’s Belt, near a very pyramidal hill just three feet shorter than the Great Pyramid, only 20 miles to the east of a Sphinx-shaped extinct volcano with Arthurian connections, in a city that is the acknowledged world capitol of Scottish Rite freemasonry -- all in a land with an much-decried Egyptian foundation legend? And finally, if we accept the dictum “form follows function” as an architectural law, we might recognize in the immense size and shape of the pyramids the ideal physical mass and form necessary to defuse the power of yet another mighty wave. Flood shelters, anyone?

In the 19th-century words of Thomas H. Huxley, a.k.a. “Darwin’s Bulldog” for his support of Darwin’s once-heretical ideas: "The known is finite, the unknown is infinite; intellectually we stand on an islet in the midst of an illimitable ocean of inexplicability. Our business in every generation is to reclaim a little more land."

Ladies and gentlemen: Hail, Atlantis!


Have got more on this to post, will see how you get on with this though
"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but *actually* from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly. time-y wimey... stuff." - The Doctor

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PostThu Sep 09, 2010 5:02 pm » by Aardvaaks

Very interesting the amount of archaeology underwater and the modern techniques used to assist the scientists, shedding yet more light on our distant past, good post cheers Electrob :flop:
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PostThu Sep 09, 2010 5:11 pm » by Boondox681

awesome freakin' post.thanx,i've never heard this one.
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PostThu Sep 09, 2010 5:54 pm » by Electrobadgr ... edge-from/

Undersea World of Ancient Ice Age Kingdoms Doggerland Atlantis Avalon Atland Oera Linda Historical Confirmation of Plato’s Dialogues Critias and Timaeus Palos Spain Archaic Navigation Knowledge from End of “Pleistocene” Inundation Maps after Lower Ice Age Sea Levels “Last Glacial Maximum” Ice Age Shoreline Contours Port Cities

On the continental shelves, submerged when the Ice Age ended, are hundreds of ancient ruins’ sites, most of them in the Old World of the Mediterranean, eastern Atlantic, and from India to Japan, many of which are megalithic, hewn stone building blocks for walls, paved streets, temples, and warfage structures, of ice age port cities which were consumed by the sea when the sea level rose of few hundred feet when the Ice Age snowpack melted. The cities were of bronze age vintage, clearly, like the ruins you see at Mycenae, Greece, or at Mohenjo Daro, India, or Seville, Spain, the seaport cities for those large inland ice age cities having been those whose ruins are now found offshore, both land and sea ruins appearing built by the same civilizations, not before circa 10000 B. C., when the mainstream scientists say the Ice Age ended, but really, circa 1500 B. C., confirmed by Plato’s account in his Dialogues, Critias and Timaeus, where 9,000 lunar cycles, not 9,000 solar cycles before Solon’s time, matches the circa 1500 B. C. date for the end of the Ice Age, which is confirmed by the bronze age vintage ruins now found on the shallow seafloor in many parts of the world.

Submerged ruins have been photographed off Lebanon, Israel, Egypt, Turkey, Greece, Italy, Spain, Morocco, Algeria, and Libya, and off Iran, in the Persian Gulf, and India, Japan, and islands of the Pacific as well, but the mainstream scientists are trying to ignore them all, because the ”submergies” are clear evidence that the Ice Age ended in the 1500 B. C. timeframe, when not coincidentally, scientists are admitting that there was a great climate change which ended the archaic bronze age period, when Egypt and the Middle East turned to dust, when the Exodus occurred, and when the Aryans swept down into India from the Middle East, and the Sea Peoples invaded the eastern Mediterranean from the west, from the empire of Atlantis, which Plato said stretched both inside the Straits of Gibraltar, as far as Italy and Libya, and outside the Straits too, including the many ruins now submerged off Cadiz, Rota, Tarifa, Chipiona, and Huelva, of the ancient kingdom of Tarshish, also known as part of the empire of Atlantis. To see how they accurately navigated and mapped the earth during those days, by the wobble rate of the earth’s axis actually, see article #2 at

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PostThu Sep 09, 2010 5:58 pm » by Boondox681

sweet badg..thanx for the links
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PostFri Sep 10, 2010 12:21 pm » by Electrobadgr

boondox681 wrote:sweet badg..thanx for the links

No worries man, i had never heard of the place either but it seems to tie together certain speculation and myth and would also explain certian similarities in structures found in the UK and the Netherlands, check this video out:

Upload to

:flop: :cheers:
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PostFri Sep 10, 2010 4:54 pm » by lamonema

Thanks for the post badger! :flop: This helps to explain why clovis spear and arrow tips have been found in both North East America and France. Just imagine what lies beneath Greenland, I wonder how much crustal rebound would result if the ice was gone? Excellent find dude. :flop:

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PostSun Sep 19, 2010 4:38 pm » by Abramelin

Hello all,

If you are interested, I filled a thread of 34 pages about Doggerland on the "Unexplained Mysteries" site: ... pic=179840

I realize it's a huge thread, so I made a summary here: ... &p=3417642

-1- Doggerland was a large stretch of land that became inhabited soon after the end of the last ice age, and became a good place for humans to live in, after a couple of thousand years (lets say from 8500 - 6100 BC)

-2- The culture of Doggerland was part of the Maglemosian culture (ca. 9500 BCE–6000) BCE) that existed in Northern Europe (from Britain to the Baltic)

-3- They were very probably seafarers

-4- The language spoken by the ancient Doggerlanders may have been (proto)-Finno-Ugric

-5- Doggerland got flooded and whiped from the map by a giant tsunami at around 6100 BC (the Storegga Slide). At 6100 BC -before it got hit by the Storegga tsunami - all that was left of Doggerland was an island the size of Ireland

-6- Those who survived the deluge (by being at a safe enough distance, or surfing the hell out of there by riding the tsunami, lol) fled to Scotland, England, Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, Denmark, Norway and Sweden.

-7- There are scientific clues (linguistic and genetic) that Doggerland was some sort of original homeland to many peoples now living at the borders of the North Sea

-8- It's possible (is it??) that the ancient Picts were the last remnants of the Doggerlanders who had survived the deluge. Maybe a relation with the Fomorians in the oldest Irish legends

-9- No idea at all, but maybe Nehalennia was the name of an ancient seagoddess worshipped long before the existence of Celtic and Germanic tribes at the coasts of the North Sea and maybe they - Celts and Germans - took over the worship (using slightly altered names, like "Elen", "Holle", "Hel", "Hulda" and so on. Maybe these Celtic and Germanic tribes were nothing but the offspring of these Doggerlanders, and maybe a mix of these Doggerlanders with people who came later to north-western Europe

-10- The Germanic name "Hel" or Celtic "Hal" (and lots of similar names) are the names of the old North Sea. There are even pilgrim roads through Germany and the Netherlands that are called "Hellweg", literally, "Road to Hell", Hell being the old name of the North Sea before the Christians stole it.

Over time the name Hell became synonym for everything evil. Maybe "hell" was connected to the original name of Doggerland, in some proto -IE or proto Finno Ugric language.

-11- Doggerland may have been the place of origin of the 'white people' (god knows why, but some geneticists believe this to be true)

-12- The Oera Linda Book, a proven hoax btw, may have used ancient (and unknown Frisian or other) legends as a source. Btw, the Frisians are genetically distinct from other people living around the North Sea, and they were there, very probably millenia ago. And they builded clay/stone mounts to live on, whole villages were on those 'terps'.

-13- (I almost forgot) Some think that ancient seafarers (from the western Mediterreanean) depicted the remnants of Doggerland in petroglyphs in present Portugal ( Aboboreira/ "How the Sungod reached America") as a dangerous area in the North Sea, an area to avoid. But that must have been after Doggerland sank beneath the waves, and only left a dangerous sand bank ("Doggers Bank")

-14- A guess: are the present Frisians the descendants of those Doggerlanders??? And did their ancestors indeed sail the seas and oceans back then, and did they influence the cultures of the countries they landed upon/in (I dont know the right English word for it)??

-15- If Doggerland was the homeland of white people, and if it is true that they fled it when they saw it being submerged, what did they do?? Flee as far as they could? Tell other people they met on their voyages - being seafarers - about what had happened to them or their kin??

-16- Was Doggerland "Hyperborea"? If the surivors of that deluge fled to everywhere, on ship or on land, crossing Europe, they may have met the ancestors of Homer and told them their story. They had already established the amber routes across Europe...

-17- Were they the ones who started the Megalithic culture across western Europe? And if so, why??

-18- Hmmmm......maybe the Celts (of Ireland, Scotland and Wales) had a name for Doggerland ( a name they would much later use for Scandinavia and/or North West Germany), and that name would be "Lochlan" (and lots of different spellings).

-19- Stonehenge may have been a 'healing' culture, and may also have been a sacred burial ground for the Doggerlanders

-20- "Lochlan", an Irish Gaelic word for 'Land of Lakes' is an appropriate word for Doggerland, because scientists have found out Doggerland was a land of rivers, marshes, woodlands, and lakes.

-21- Lochlan/Doggerland may have been the place of origin of the Fo®morians and/or Cuithne, and/or Tuatha De Danann as described in ancient Irish legends

-22- At present the Scots have the following names for the North Sea :

Muir Lochlainn = North Sea
Mhuir a Tuath = North Sea

-23- Heh, maybe good ol'Tolkien dreamt about its destruction by a 'giant, silent Wave' (genetic memory, or something. Well, it earned him a lot of fame and money, right?

-24- Did ancient Native Americans travel to Doggerland along the Gulf Stream ( think "Red Paint People/Maritime Archaic")? Were they the 'dark haired, dark skinned' Fomorians? You tell me... (there are reports dating from Roman times up to just a couple of centuries ago of Inuit arriving in Scotland, Ireland and Holland in their canoes).

-25- There are those who say that Doggerland may have existed long after the Storegga Slide because it's inhabitants build dikes to protect them (Deruelle).

-26- Juergen Spanuth published a book (1953) about his theory that Atlantis was located in the North, and that Atlantis City was nothing but Helgoland. I don't agree with his theory, but he used finds on the bottom of the sea, west of Denmark.

-27- The Megalithic Culture of western Europe may have originated in Doggerland; these people built huge structures using tree trunks; these structures were destroyed by the Storegga Slide; after that they sailed out to the countries they already knew of, and started building using a more durable material: stone.

-28- Submerged megalithic structures have been found òn the bottom of the sea, off the coasts of Orkney.

-29- Doggerlanders were fishers and seafarers, and they may have sailed up the Elbe river into the center of Europe, and thus influencing much of the European culture with their stories and myths.

-29- Volcanoes erupting in the Eifel region of Germany, around 13,000 BC, may have forced people to flee to the north west of that region: Doggerland (and of course the countries near Doggerland. A large area was made uninhabitable for ages across a large stretch of Europe: northern France, west and north Germany. Food was poisened, water was undrinkable, people died.

-30- Long after Doggerland finally sank beneath the waves, people remembered it. They even gave offers to the sea (the North Sea) in the form of stone age axes, beautifully and smooth tools that were seen as very special around that time.

-31- Stonehenge and similar structures in the other Brittish Isles and Ireland may have been built by the refugees of Doggerland, but now they used stone instead of oak trees that were abundant on Doggerland.
But not immediately: first they used these oaks (Tara Hill, Ireland, or the wooden structures that preceded Stonehenge).

-32- Most of these structures are connected with some death cult, and on the east coast of England they found the remnants of a wooden circular structure, and a scientist said it was made for the dead, and that the ancients may have ferried their dead across the North Sea, to an 'Island of the Dead'. Dogger Island, perhaps??

-33- The Doggerlanders were whalers (amongst other professions), they were not too afraid to sail the oceans. When they fled after their homeland got flooded, they went to the countries they had encountered during their voyages and hunting parties.

-34- All over the world, but especially in Scotland, the Brittish Isles in general, and Ireland (and Scandinavia) they found socalled 'cup-and-circle' petroglyphs.

Many of these circles are concentric circles with a 'tail' form center to outer circle, accompanied with 'cups'.

From what I gathered around the internet, these symbols could well represent an impact of a spiralling comet (creating a huge and spectacular image across the ancient heavens) that impacted into the north of the present North Sea (west of Norway), causing the Storegga Slide, and subsequently causing the huge tsumani that flooded the remnants of Doggerland.

Petroglyphs like that are found all over the earth, but most in N/W Europe.

-35- According to one theory, around 6100 BC a swarm of 'bolids' impacted on earth (Tollmann).

-36- More recent and circular labyrinths are - according to me - depictions of this same event. The 'entrance' of the labyrinth being equal to the tail of the comet that destroyed land 6100 BC.

Labyrinths all over the earth have to do with 'death at the center', Death, another life, the afterlife, whatever comes after the maggots start eating our flesh. The center of the spiralling comet was of course the comet itself, the rock that eventually impacted into the North Sea, and caused the death of many thousands of people.

These labyrinths are rather similar all over the earth, but in the Americas that socalled 'entrance' is always at the top of the labyrinth, while in Europe and India that entrance is at the bottom. I think that is caused by where the people watching that heavenly event were located on earth.

-37- I think I found a repesentation ( petroglyphs in Wales) of a spiralling comet impacting into the North Sea.... wishfull thinking, no doubt.

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PostSun Sep 19, 2010 5:15 pm » by Abramelin

I can imagine that some points in that summary are a bit far out, but then I advise you to read the whole thread. I think that - aside form the occasional bickering, lol - it's worth the trouble.

My latest addition was a possible name for that submerged country:

Because I once assumed that the name "Nehalennia" became a name for some sea goddess, but was originally the name of some now 'lost country' she represented, I asked a Finnish woman on my own site, what is "Land near ice and frost" in your language ( I asked her because the Doggerlanders must have been part of the Maglemosian culture, a culture of people speaking a Finno-Ugric language)?

She told me it was "maa lähellä halla ja jäätä". ['ja' is pronounced like English 'ya' or 'ia']

Sounds similar to the various spellings of Nehalennia, or "Neeltje Jans" as the name is preserved in my language. And - like I said - it were Romans in ancient Friesland who wrote it down and inscribed it on stone the way it sounded in their ears

But I think I made it a bit too difficult for myself: I could have simply asked her, "what is 'land near ice' in your language?"

land near ice: maa lähellä jään ( >> 'j' is pronounced like 'y' in English 'ya' or 'i' in English 'ia' )

The ancient ancestors of the Frisians/Norwegians/Swedes/Danes may have been Doggerlanders who fled to southern Norway and Sweden, and to Denmark. This is even suggested on the Wiki page about Norway.

From the original name for that land that sunk, they only saved part: "Hella" or "Halja" (like San Franciso >> Frisco), and used it as a name for the North Sea, the sea that flooded their original homeland, their 'land near ice', maalähelläjään (Doggerland, as I have said many times in this thread, was nothing short of paradise 2000 years after the end of the ice age - think Gulf Stream and being low land - as compared with the surrounding countries that were still much covered in ice and barren tundra.)

Very much later the name of their ancient homeland still survived as the name for a sea goddess, "Nehalennia". And also for a very long time - well, part of the name - as the name for the sea that now covered their ancient homeland, the North Sea, or in old Frisian, Hel/Helja/Halja.

Today I watched again the BBC "Stone Age Atlantis" documentary about Doggerland.

Near the end of this doc a scientist tells us many neolithic stone axes were found on the socalled "Brown Banks", smack in the middle between southern Holland and England, and west of where all these much younger Nehalennia votice altars were found. The suggestion was that even long after Doggerland disappeared, people still remembered it, and offered to the sea what was then very precious to them: smoothly carved stone axes.


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PostSun Sep 19, 2010 6:46 pm » by -Marduk-

Welcome Abramelin
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