Dutch Christmas parade Santa's helpers 'black up' racism

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PostWed Nov 21, 2012 1:50 am » by Svaha


domdabears wrote:I don't buy any of your bull shit.

If this was done in the US, you Europeans would be saying it's racist.

You people are nothing but a bunch of hypocrites.

Worthless parasites.


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PostWed Nov 21, 2012 3:41 am » by Noentry


This is what I found on the history of this.

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The history
The Sinterklaas feast celebrates the name day, 6 December, of Saint Nicholas (280–342), patron saint of children and sailors. Saint Nicholas was a bishop of Myra in present-day Turkey. In the 11th century, the saint's bones were taken and moved to southern Italy, an area then ruled by Spain, and relics and his fame spread throughout Europe. The Western Christian Church made his name day a Church holiday. In the north of France, he became the patron saint of school children, then mostly in church schools. The folk feast arose during the Middle Ages. In early traditions, students elected one of them as "bishop" on St. Nicholas Day, who would rule until December 28 (Innocents Day). They sometimes acted out events from the bishop's life. As the festival moved to city streets, it became more lively.[1]

Sinterklaas is assisted by many mischievous helpers with black faces and colourful Moorish dresses, dating back two centuries. These helpers are called 'Zwarte Pieten' (Black Petes). During the Middle-ages Zwarte Piet was a name for the devil. Having triumphed over evil, it was said that on Saint Nicholas eve the devil was shackled and made his slave. Although the character of Black Pete later came to acquire racial connotations, his origins were in the devil figure. This racialization is reflected in the reworking of the characters' mythos. Their blackness was racial, with Pete being an imported African servant of Saint Nicholas since 1850 (though some people say Pete was a slave who, when Sinterklaas bought him his freedom, was so grateful that he stayed to assist him). Today however, the more politically correct explanation that Pete's face is "black from soot" (as Pete has to climb through chimneys to deliver his gifts) is used. Traditionally Saint Nicholas only had one helper, whose name varied wildly. "Piet(er)" the name in use now can be traced back to a book from 1891.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/38985806@N02/5214102599/


As you can read originally "Zwarte Pieten" was a devil figure.
Later he became an "African servant"(slave if you wish).
Then to avoid offending it was updated to "black from soot"

I think what we have here is a celebration that is a big part of the Christmas season in Holland for many century's, it has has already been updated to avoid offense, no racism is intended imo.
The fact is they are celebrating this Black Pete as a good historical figure.
There is at the present time, no negative racial connotations associated with this celebration.
In my approximation no offense is intended, so if taken it comes from ones own prejudices.

In England where I think all this fussing is coming from have banned the "Golliwog"
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In Britain it was solely representative of a slave boy, it had no other ideology behind it.
Hence the reaction from the UK.
In Holland it has taken on a different meaning, it became part of their heritage, originally an evil figure, then the myth was reworked by an author to a slave, from what I can see it is about freedom of a slave, in other words a good story probably at a time when the Duth were questioning the morality of being slave traders.
In modern day it has become an integral part of Christmas and to avoid it's previous racial connections it was changed to fit the modern world.
In Holland Black Pete is a good character(Santa's helper).
So a few white people blacken their faces to celebrate this mythological character.

Is this racist?

Not in my book.
"The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority.
The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority.
The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking."
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PostWed Nov 21, 2012 5:11 am » by Perronick


In Spain there's people whose last name is Matamoros (Moorkiller) and towns that show the heads of decapitated Moors in the Coat of Arms.

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PostWed Nov 21, 2012 2:57 pm » by Fatdogmendoza


Noentry wrote:In England where I think all this fussing is coming from have banned the "Golliwog"



Not true

The Gollywog is not and has never been banned in England :flop:
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PostWed Nov 21, 2012 3:31 pm » by Cwmman


i own a golliwog, well the truth be known i got it out of a childrens machine 2-3 years ago at my then local pub for my grandson........ but i kept it :twisted:

its not real its a black stuffed toy which now sits in my sitting room..... and as yet has not offended anyone who comes to my house, even family members .

:flop:
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PostWed Nov 21, 2012 8:24 pm » by Flecktarn


i thought it was a dutch tradition ?
suddenly its a issue
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PostWed Nov 21, 2012 9:36 pm » by Noentry


Fatdogmendoza wrote:
Noentry wrote:In England where I think all this fussing is coming from have banned the "Golliwog"



Not true

The Gollywog is not and has never been banned in England :flop:


I should of been a little more precise, my choice of words was poor you are of course correct fatdog :flop:
It was a very popular childhood toy many years ago and was used on TV.
When the UK became politically correct it was dropped from many different products as their mascot.
In essence banned from being used to advertise products, also I remember a few years back watching one of those antiques auction show and one was for auction, the Golliwog toy was introduced, to the veiwer as a controversial topic. So you can still buy and sell them, but it has been discarded from shall we say polite conversation.
British jam manufacturer James Robertson & Sons used a golliwog called Golly as its mascot from 1910, after John Robertson apparently saw children playing with golliwog dolls in America. Robertson's started producing promotional Golliwog badges in the 1920s, which could be obtained in exchange for tokens gained from their products. In 1983, the company's products were boycotted by the Greater London Council as offensive, and in 1988 the character ceased to be used in television advertising. The company used to give away golliwog badges and small plaster figures playing musical instruments or sports and other such themes. The badge collection scheme was withdrawn in 2001.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golliwogg
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As far as I am aware Golliwog is not used to advertise products anymore.
"The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority.
The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority.
The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking."
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PostWed Nov 21, 2012 10:08 pm » by just_the_flu


racist people see things as "racist". Just the same as conartists and thief's think everyone's ripping them off, or trying to steal from them.

non-racist people don't view things as 'racial ideals'; it is what it is (no hidden racial meanings).

a great example of this is the South Park episode where they wanted to change the South Park flag. Only chef viewed the flag as a racial idea. The kids did not view the flag as racist, the flag was just what it was (no hidden meaning to it). The children saw no reason to change the flag. - For people who have not watched this episode(or show) the flag was basically three white people hanging a black person.

So in conclusion the only people who see things in "black and white" are the real racists. Non-racists don't view the world in "black and White".
...you dont know your wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day...



...some asshole thought of it, some sucker believed it, and look what its done so far...

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PostWed Nov 21, 2012 10:12 pm » by Noentry


Seriouscitizen wrote:


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My kid loves em and I agree with the Duck, You only give people power if you give a shit and as long as people have the right intentions behind it i see no harm .


Thats funny

:lol:
"The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority.
The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority.
The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking."
A. A. Milne

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PostWed Nov 21, 2012 10:28 pm » by Noentry


Poooooot wrote:
Noentry wrote:This is stupid.
Why would this be racist?
Or am I missing something?

Blackface. It's extremely racist, horrific, and downright disgusting. Do you know anything about mistral shows?

If you have the time, I suggest you watch this movie. It's called Bamboozeled.


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edit: I commented without actually watching the video bc I am at work, but I'm gonna leave this comment here because I'm pretty sure the black-face portion of it is just as offensive as the story behind it.


will do :cheers:
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"The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority.
The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority.
The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking."
A. A. Milne


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