Vaping vs. Smoking: The E-Cigarette thread. (Renamed)

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PostSun Dec 09, 2012 5:23 pm » by domdabears


Work your way down to 0 nicotine.

They do have all the juices with 0 nicotine.

Like I said before, I hardly even vape anymore.

Once you get the nicotine crave out, you're practically free from all this.
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PostSun Dec 09, 2012 5:27 pm » by domdabears


Flavors I recommend (non menthol)

havana
cuban cigar
parliament
camel
cappuccino

And this is the cheapest place I've found for juice with the best flavors. http://www.vaporsheaven.com/category_s/ ... =20&page=1
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PostMon Dec 10, 2012 4:00 am » by Jetski


Spock wrote:Jetski - Volcano is located in Hawaii. I live on the other side of the earth, so I believe NZ is actually closer to Hawaii than South Carolina is.

I show Hawaii being 4,648 miles from you, where it is 5,574 miles from me. I got my stuff in 2 days via FedEx (2 day delivery).

Anyway - don't let that stop you, by from volcano!

Here's the link...

Here's the link to the HIGHLY recommended starter kit I got
http://www.volcanoecigs.com/electronic-cigarette-starter-kits/inferno-kit.html


And here's a link to use a coupon code for 10% off your entire order through December
http://www.ecigadvanced.com/electronic-cigarette-coupons/volcano-coupon-discount-code/

Another side note for anyone trying this.

I was on their forum and chat yesterday seeking advice because I could not inhale the vapor - it stung my lungs too much, someone had posted something to try which worked for me (if you are using a cartomizer as opposed to the small anolog cigarette look-alikes) take a few drags off the ecig without pushing the button (no vapor) dry drags. Then push the button and draw the vapor, somehow, that makes the vapor (for me) inhalable!

And, I have been vaping on the same cartomizer that I filled when I got this 2 days ago. Have not even vaped half of what I put in it yet. At this rate, one bottle will easily last me at least 3 weeks @ only $19.99/bottle. So that is a savings of at least $85 every 3 weeks to cigarettes.

Thanks for the info and links, Spock! :flop:

Have spent several hours going over each and every one of those models and am really digging the Volcano Kit *black* (the one, Kaarma has order), and if I go ahead and order it I'm thinking of ordering an additional V Battery *white* . Kind of worried though, cause I've noticed the Volcano Battery only has a 90 mAH capacity--30-45 minutes of continuous vaping. Smoking a pack a day as it is, I'm not sure whether it will be suitable for me. :think: I'm clueless on the nicotine strength I'll need too. I think I am going to wait and see how Kaarma goes with hers, what strength/flavours she got, how the Volcano performed in general. For her sake, and now mine, I hope it arrives soon and she hurries back here and lets us know how she gets on! :lol:

Thanks so much to everyone who's offered advice and/or contributed to the thread in one way or another..much appreciated! :flop:

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PostMon Dec 10, 2012 4:39 am » by Kaarmaa


Jetski wrote: I think I am going to wait and see how Kaarma goes with hers, what strength/flavours she got, how the Volcano performed in general. For her sake, and now mine, I hope it arrives soon and she hurries back here and lets us know how she gets on! :lol:


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PostMon Dec 10, 2012 6:17 am » by Jetski


^ :lol: :lol: :lol: Too funny!

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PostMon Dec 10, 2012 11:09 am » by Spock


Kaarma & Jetski,

If you are not satisfied with the performance of that type of e-cig, do not be disheartened. Like I said earlier, I tried the analog cig look-alikes and was not happy, the vapor was not sufficient and the battery died very quickly (and no pass-through on the battery to vape while it charged).

If you guys are happy with them, great, if not, look into the larger e-cigs which you fill a tube with the liquid and the batteries are large enough to last for a long time. The battery I am currently on I have been using since I first charged it on Friday.

Good luck!

BTW - I have only smoked 8 cigarettes since Friday. I am in the process of changing my habitual routine. My plan is to purchase no more cigarettes when this pack is empty.

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PostMon Dec 10, 2012 1:09 pm » by Spikey


WillEase666 wrote:Electronic Cigarettes were first popularized as a safer way of nicotine intake. While Electronic Cigarette consumption is safer than having actual cigarettes filled with tobacco, they are not really a total safe option.

Read on to know about some of the main Electronic Cigarette dangers.

Diethylene Glycol
Electronic Cigarettes are found to contain an anti-freeze component known as Diethylene Glycol. It is toxic to humans and can cause health worries on inhalation. This is one of the major Electronic Cigarette side effects.

Toxicity
Other than Diethylene Glycol, e-cigarettes also contain cancer-causing compounds like nitrosamines. If the cigarette accidentally breaks, humans may be exposed to such harmful components.

Bad Marketing
The marketing strategy of e-cigarettes has also come under criticism. Many electronic cigarette brands are being found to offer e-cigarettes in various flavours like mint, orange and chocolate. This can entice smokers as well as non-smokers. This actually promotes smoking rather than curbing it.

Some electronic cigarette juices have caramel and strawberry flavourings that may attract children into smoking.

Nicotine
Health experts argue that electronic cigarettes contain nicotine, the basic element found in cigarettes. In an electronic cigarette liquid nicotine is used. Nicotine is an alkaloid medicine that is harmful for humans. A long drag on the cigarette can make you actually suck some of the liquid nicotine into your mouth. This can be very damaging for health. You have to drag the cigarette slowly for 3-5 seconds, which is not always possible to be careful about.

Tetramethylpyrazine
E-cigarettes also consist of Tetramethylpyrazine. Prolonged exposure to Tetramethylpyrazine can result in brain damage in human beings.

Misuse
There is also a widespread concern that electronic cigarette consumption may promote drug use. There are reports of liquid nicotine being substituted with liquid THC, a popular potent marijuana resin. If electronic cigarette e liquid is replaced with addictive drugs, it can become highly damaging to health. It can cause further breakdown of the health instead of improving it. In any case, electronic cigarettes do not contribute to health.

Cost-Effective
That the electronic cigarette costs less is also a factor that can aid its popularity. Many websites offer these devices at a starting price of about 40 pounds. Cartridge refills are available for less than a pound. This is far lesser than monthly expenditure on actual cigarettes.

Do Electronic Cigarettes cause Cancer?
People often worry whether Electronic Cigarettes give rise to cancer. In electronic cigarette nicotine, flavourings and many other harmful chemicals are used that may have cancerous effects on the body. However, carcinogenic electronic cigarette health risks have not been proved by any study.

Electronic Cigarette Risks for Heart
Electronic cigarette cartridges contain nicotine which can cause heart ailments. Cartridges containing even traces of nicotine can be risky for the health of your heart. The risk can be reduced only by using Electronic Cigarette no nicotine cartridges.

Is Electronic Cigarette Good For You?
It is a fact that no electronic cigarette company is endorsed by any health organization. This is the reason why there has been an effective Electronic Cigarette ban in a number of countries like Canada. While Electronic Cigarettes are less dangerous compared to real cigarettes, they are still a threat to smokers. For an effective removal of smoking habit, it is best to give up smoking completely. It is best not to try to stop smoking with Electronic Cigarettes.

References:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_cigarette

http://www.naturalmedicine.com/news/sur ... dangerous/

http://www.smokelessdelite.com/blog/ecigarettesdangers/

http://www.safecig.com/what-is-an-elect ... arette.php


There is a large degree of corporate propaganda involved with ecigs and ejuice.

You've got to remember Will, there are huge corporate interests at stake here, and those that stand to lose a large portion of their business, will naturally, go all out to proptect their investments.

The bullet points you posted, are mostly misinformation derived from websites who either are supported by those with a lot to lose, or are directly run by them.

Who stands to lose, while ecigs become more popular?

There's the tobacco industry, obvious really, but it has to be listed...nicotine that goes into ejuice, is normally lab or pharma grade, and isn't taken from tobacco products generally. (tomatoes contain nicotine, and lots of other natural sources of nicotine are available)

So...big tobacco stands to lose...a lot.

Who else?

Big Pharma...why would big pharma lose out and what market of theirs would be affected?

They have untold millions / billions, tied up in 'quit smoking products'...they have a very low success rate, and invariably, people using the pharma drugs (can cause heart problems), patches, gums and now sprays, mostly return to smoking tobacco within a year of using those products...only around 20% managed to stop smoking for a year or longer using them.

Ecigs has a much higher success rate at around 80% of those who regularly use an ecig instead of smoking tobacco products, stay off tobacco for a year or longer...these success stats are the sort pharma can only dream of, but probably give the pharma and tobacco bigwigs nightmares at night.

Who else has a vested interest?

Governments stand to lose money, at least initially anyway.

Tobacco smokers in just the UK are estimated (by the government) to cost the NHS around £4 - £5 Billion per year treating the people who get nasty illness and diseases from smoking.
This is often used as an excuse to refuse to treat those who smoke, or highlight the costs as a reason to ban smoking in public places etc.

What they don't often mention on the nightly news, is that the UK government EARNS around £12 Billion per year in revenues from tobacco usage...so a net profit, after paying out for treatments and NHS costs of around £7 - £8 Billions per year....quite a lot to lose if all smokers switched to vaping?

Who else could be in the financial firing line?

Well, this is a surprising one...the 'quit smoking' groups and organisations would lose big time too..how?

Organisations get donations and support from government and from big pharma to promote pharma 'quit kits', and reduce smokers...£100's of millions per year worth...money that would not be paid, if smokers switched...again, quite a lot to lose, then there are the jobs in those industries to think about.

There are plenty more that if they wanted to survive as they are, would have to fight their corners...the easiest way to fight your corner, is to attack the enemy before it get's entrenched...this is what we're seeing with the politics and propaganda regarding ecigs.

The big players are feeling VERY threatened. Personally, i don't know why they just don't switch themselves, change business model and move into ecigs and juice manufacturer...but what do i know?

Onto your list (mostly propaganda i have to say)

'Diethylene Glycol'

This is NOT used in ecig liquid...at all.

What IS used is 'Propylene Glycol', a similar compound with similar uses, but NOT the same thing at all...DEG is toxic, PEG is not.

PEG (Propylene Glycol, one of the main ingredients in eLiquid)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propylene_glycol

Propylene glycol is considered Generally Recognized As Safe by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, and it is used as a humectant (E1520), solvent, and preservative in food and for tobacco products.

It is also used in pharmaceutical and personal care products.[4] Propylene glycol is a solvent in many pharmaceuticals, including oral, injectable and topical formulations, such as for diazepam and lorazepam that are insoluble in water, use propylene glycol as a solvent in their clinical, injectable forms


PEG or PG is also beginning to be used as a vapour in hospital wards and operating theatres.

It's is vapourised, in much the same way as ecig vapers use it, and pumped through the air ducts in hospitals because it has anti-viral and anti-bacterial qualities that make it a good agent to be breathing in!

Experiments have been conducted on PG for decade upon decade.

In the 1930's USA, schools had it pumped into classrooms to keep germs at bay, and it was found to be helpful at preventing infections being passed around the kids.

Likewise, animal tests (rats) have been done in terms of influenza and cold virus research and proved to be helpful at reducing the rates of infections, or limiting those that did become infected by a virus.

It's also in literally 1000's and 1000's of foods, drugs and myriad products we all use or consume almost every day.

DEG (Diethylene Glycol, IS somewhat toxic and NOT used in eliquids)
Diethylene glycol (DEG) is an organic compound with the formula (HOCH2CH2)2O. It is a colorless, practically odorless, poisonous, and hygroscopic liquid with a sweetish taste. It is miscible in water, alcohol, ether, acetone, and ethylene glycol. DEG is a widely used solvent.

Its use in adulterated consumer products has resulted in numerous epidemics of poisoning since the early 20th century.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethylene_glycol

Other varients of Propylene Glycol used in ecigs are PEG400 (also not toxic unless you decided to drink litres of the stuff)

Another main ingredient in eLiquid can be VG (Vegetable Glycerin).

As the name implies, it's a Glycerin obtained from vegetable sources, and is completely natural. If you walk down the aisles of your local supermarket, you'll find bottles of this in either the cookery or baking section, or in the coughs and colds medicines section...it's a sore throat remedy or a baking ingredient when bought neat off the shelf...it's harmless (again, unless you drank litres of it, or drowned in it!)

Nicotine.

Nicotine, unless used inappropriately, is not harmful. It's not even harmful in cigarettes...the other 4000 chemicals and additives / preservatives Big tobacco adds are.

Doctors are beginning to prescribe nicotine to obese people, including kids, as an appetite supressent.

Nicotine in extremely high doses, like most things commonly used and ingested by humans can actually kill you. If you were a crank, and decided for some reason to drink a bottle of ejuice, or wash your face with the stuff for example, it won't be a good thing for you..and will probably end up killing you or making you very ill.

Having said that, so too can drinking around 4 - 6 litres of ordinary drinking water...kill you that is. Your brain will swell up and well...you'd have a bad day.


In the strengths available to vapers, the nicotine is actually less than that contained in the tobacco of your average cigarette, and is easily tailored when ordering eliquid, all the way from 36mg/ml nicotine content (strong nicotine) down to zero mg/ml if you just want to produce vapour and flavour instead of getting a nicotine hit.

There's no such thing as a customisable nicotine level tobacco cigarette, and certainly not a zero nicotine cigarette.

Tetramethyl pyrazine

The name sounds chemically and scary..but it is a naturally occuring compound that exists in almost everything we eat.

It is used in the flavourings of cakes, sweets, biscuits and most baked foods.
Again, the use of this in the bullet point list is just a scare tactic...in terms of toxicity, the LD50 (lethal dose) of it is 1910g/kg body weight...or for a 50kg human, is almost 100g. A rediculously high dose.

About 5ppm (about 5g/kg converted) is used in flavouring elements used for baking and foodstuffs, and in eliquid too.

As far as being toxic to the brain in some way.. Tetramethyl pyrazine according to PubMed indicates that it actually has protective qualities on brain cells and blood vessel linings.

As for the rest of the bullet points...i'm amazed that such things can be believed either tbh.

Ecigs encouraging drug use? Seriously?!

The premise that ecigs encouraged drug use is really clutching at straws, and should in itself set propaganda alarm bells loudly ringing in even the more cynical of us.

5 million people, the average number of regular or occasional Cannabis users in just the UK are not using Cannabis because of ecigs, they are using Cannabis because of rolling papers, bongs, blunts, wraps, oil, hot spoons, pipes, cookies and brownies and all of the other paraphenalia and methods used to consume the stuff! Cannabis users will be Cannabis users, whether ecigs exist or not...so it's rediculous to associate Cannabis and ecigs.

As far as drugs go, ejuice is also available that contains vitamins and minerals...there are vit C, vit D and others available to use, and there is also (believe it or not) an ejuice that contains a 'gentleman's' drug that enhances...err..your bedroom performance...ok, it's an erection juice! (true) Whether it works or not, i can't say...honest.

I've been using my ecigs and eliquids exclusively for over one and a half years now, and i feel healthier, my brain works faster, and my general wellbeing is much better now, that i have been in decades.

Even if there is an infinitesimal chance that any of the ingredients in the eliquid i vape every day, the comparison of any eliquid to the very real damage that we all know smoking tobacco causes, is like comparing paracetamol to crack cocaine.

Just be aware folks, there are a lot of interested parties all propagandising online pushing their agendas, do your own research, read up on the (4) four ingredients of eliquid, and read what people who have been using ecigs for years with no problems whatsoever..quite the opposite is true in virtaully all the people i've spoken to who've switched from filthy tobacco to clean ecigs.

Make your own minds up, don't take my word or anyone else's word for it...do your own research.

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PostMon Dec 10, 2012 5:35 pm » by Kaarmaa


Good post Spikey, is wanted to post something similar but was to lazy to translate to english :roll:
What made me laugh was the comparision between Paracetamol and cocaine crack. When I went to a drugstore saturday (before buying my Volcano starter kit online :mrgreen: grrrr, I can't wait) and asked for e-cigs, the bit....hummmm....lady looked at me like I was asking for crack, before telling me that selling e-cigs is forbidden in french drugstores! Nothing surprising because the french government takes about 80% taxes on every pack of cigarettes, yes, they care alot about our health... :top:

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PostMon Dec 10, 2012 7:20 pm » by Spikey


Kaarmaa wrote:Good post Spikey, is wanted to post something similar but was to lazy to translate to english :roll:
What made me laugh was the comparision between Paracetamol and cocaine crack. When I went to a drugstore saturday (before buying my Volcano starter kit online :mrgreen: grrrr, I can't wait) and asked for e-cigs, the bit....hummmm....lady looked at me like I was asking for crack, before telling me that selling e-cigs is forbidden in french drugstores! Nothing surprising because the french government takes about 80% taxes on every pack of cigarettes, yes, they care alot about our health... :top:


Thanks Kaarmaa!

I do go on and on though...but hey, that's me...boring to the core! ;-)

Good luck with your Volcano ecig Kaarmaa, hope you get on well with it.

@ Spock.

The flavourings i use are bought in the UK from an online retailer called 'Ecig wizard' and they are supplied by a flavourings company called 'The Perfumers Apprentice' (TPA). They are based in Italy i think, but they sell all over the world, so you should be able to get some easily in the US.

Another good flavourings brand is 'Flavour arts' (known affectionately as FARTS)...i haven't tried vaping farts, so i don't know, but a lot of people seem to dig it.

They come in small 10ml bottles, but they are very concentrated and go a long, long way.

Cost here is £2.00 (about $3.00) per 10ml.

To get a good flavour, especially if you get into making your own eliquid (loads do), the mixing ratio is about 10% - 20% flavouring to plain PG or plain VG.

My local pharmacy (Boots the chemist), sells bottles of Vegetable Glycerin for about 80p (about $1.50?) for 200ml...don't buy VG from eliquid vendors...they'll rip you off. Go online or to your local pharmacy and you should be able to buy it very cheaply.

If you just want to Jazz up some juice you have bought from a vendor, because you think the flavour is a bit weak or you want to add another flavour dimension, go easy with the amount you put in.

For a 30ml bottle of juice, only 10 drops of concentrated flavouring is needed.

I buy 26mg/ml RY4 (a sweet caramel / toffee tobacco flavour) and to a 30ml bottle i put 50% RY4 pre-mixed juice, then i add 25% Vanilla premix and 25% Toffee premix.

Then i drip in extra flavourings..i add 5 drops of French Vanilla, 5 drops of dulce de leche (tastes like sweet condensed milk) 5 drops of Bavarian cream (like Baileys Irish cream) 5 drops of Caramel Candy (like cotton candy) and 1 or 2 drops of coconut flavour...sounds disgusting, but it's very nice.

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PostMon Dec 10, 2012 7:30 pm » by *WillEase*


You know what Spikey? I don't care.
Smoking is obviously bad for you. E-cigs are too...but not as much.
PEACE, PEACE...BUT THERE IS NO PEACE!


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