Experiments with Truth

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PostFri Sep 24, 2010 9:53 pm » by Lucidlemondrop


I think Truth is subjective.

My truth will not resemble your truth.

They say there are "universal" truths, yet that is subject to change based on collective conscience.

Maybe?
What a long strange trip it's been..............

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PostFri Sep 24, 2010 10:02 pm » by Hackjames


lucidlemondrop wrote:I think Truth is subjective.

My truth will not resemble your truth.

They say there are "universal" truths, yet that is subject to change based on collective conscience.

Maybe?


Again, "truth" would not be subject to change. Opinion/conception of a truth could be altered, but the base reality would not (at least not based on a belief). This takes for granted that you're talking about an objective truth, like where something is or how something reacts given X, not a subjective truth like "ice cream is the best food".
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PostFri Sep 24, 2010 10:38 pm » by Lucidlemondrop


hackjames wrote:
lucidlemondrop wrote:I think Truth is subjective.

My truth will not resemble your truth.

They say there are "universal" truths, yet that is subject to change based on collective conscience.

Maybe?


Again, "truth" would not be subject to change. Opinion/conception of a truth could be altered, but the base reality would not (at least not based on a belief). This takes for granted that you're talking about an objective truth, like where something is or how something reacts given X, not a subjective truth like "ice cream is the best food".


So then would absolute truth be that ice cream is made of milk and sugar and vanilla?

No.........cause I may make ice cream different.......it is "agreed upon truth", as the color blue has a frequency of so and so hertz..............agreed upon truth..........

We don't understand absolute because as truth is contemplated it changes........Being humans we actually have the ability to change truth based on observation of said truth......IMHO
What a long strange trip it's been..............

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PostFri Sep 24, 2010 10:43 pm » by Slith


Truth is a matter of perspective. Nothing more, nothing less. One person's truth doesn't necessarily reflect others beliefs. Kind of like an opinion
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PostFri Sep 24, 2010 10:44 pm » by Hackjames


lucidlemondrop wrote:So then would absolute truth be that ice cream is made of milk and sugar and vanilla?

No.........cause I may make ice cream different.......it is "agreed upon truth", as the color blue has a frequency of so and so hertz..............agreed upon truth..........

We don't understand absolute because as truth is contemplated it changes........Being humans we actually have the ability to change truth based on observation of said truth......IMHO


I get what you're saying and it's certainly valid from a certain perspective, but I think you're confusing subjective and objective truth to a degree here.

The sun exists. -Objective Truth
The sun is good. -Subjective Truth

Ice cream consists of ingredients. -Objective
Ice cream must consist of these specific ingredients. -Subjective

Basically, if there is an objectively verifiable feature that requires no interpretation to acknowledge then it's an objective truth. Don't take me for claiming authority here by the way, this is just my understanding. There's certainly room for discussion about any of these ideas, but I think that has more to do with definition of terms than with "truth" itself.
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PostFri Sep 24, 2010 10:46 pm » by Lucidlemondrop


hackjames wrote:
lucidlemondrop wrote:So then would absolute truth be that ice cream is made of milk and sugar and vanilla?

No.........cause I may make ice cream different.......it is "agreed upon truth", as the color blue has a frequency of so and so hertz..............agreed upon truth..........

We don't understand absolute because as truth is contemplated it changes........Being humans we actually have the ability to change truth based on observation of said truth......IMHO


I get what you're saying and it's certainly valid from a certain perspective, but I think you're confusing subjective and objective truth to a degree here.

The sun exists. -Objective Truth
The sun is good. -Subjective Truth

Ice cream consists of ingredients. -Objective
Ice cream must consist of these specific ingredients. -Subjective

Basically, if there is an objectively verifiable feature that requires no interpretation to acknowledge then it's an objective truth. Don't take me for claiming authority here by the way, this is just my understanding. There's certainly room for discussion about any of these ideas, but I think that has more to do with definition of terms than with "truth" itself.


Yet there is change ability within that truth...........Someday the Sun may not exist.........
What a long strange trip it's been..............

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PostFri Sep 24, 2010 10:47 pm » by Hackjames


dlslith wrote:Truth is a matter of perspective. Nothing more, nothing less. One person's truth doesn't necessarily reflect others beliefs. Kind of like an opinion


Yes and no. I mean, consider the statement "Things exist."

You could spend a long time defining what you mean by both "things" and "exist", but it's fairly clear that objectively (the only universally useful standard for individuals dealing with other individuals) that it is true.

There are personal truths as well, but I feel that they're more usefully described as opinions or beliefs.
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PostFri Sep 24, 2010 10:48 pm » by Hackjames


lucidlemondrop wrote:
Yet there is change ability within that truth...........Someday the Sun may not exist.........


Right, but if it stops existing I don't think it will be for lack of belief. :]
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PostFri Sep 24, 2010 10:55 pm » by Slith


hackjames wrote:
dlslith wrote:Truth is a matter of perspective. Nothing more, nothing less. One person's truth doesn't necessarily reflect others beliefs. Kind of like an opinion


Yes and no. I mean, consider the statement "Things exist."

You could spend a long time defining what you mean by both "things" and "exist", but it's fairly clear that objectively (the only universally useful standard for individuals dealing with other individuals) that it is true.

There are personal truths as well, but I feel that they're more usefully described as opinions or beliefs.

Sure, but what exactly is the truth to whatever we are trying to decipher? Yes, for sure, things exist and we are forever trying to learn and move forward from "proven" facts. Yet as we keep moving ahead, we are constantly finding out that was once was "word" is in fact not so much so. That's what I meant
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PostFri Sep 24, 2010 10:59 pm » by Hackjames


dlslith wrote:Sure, but what exactly is the truth to whatever we are trying to decipher? Yes, for sure, things exist and we are forever trying to learn and move forward from "proven" facts. Yet as we keep moving ahead, we are constantly finding out that was once was "word" is in fact not so much so. That's what I meant


Fair enough. I'd just say that truth is not chained to our conception of it. We can be misguided (as has been the case many times, as you rightfully point out) but that doesn't change the base reality, whatever it may be.
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