First Arrests Made Under French Veil Ban

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PostTue Apr 12, 2011 1:22 am » by Spock


99socks wrote:Wearing the veil in a non-Muslim country is in many cases an act of rebellion against the country rather than an act of obedience to the "oppressive" men.


All the more reason for the authorities to be leery of them and to enforce the law.

It's a loop hole the crazies can use (will use / have used) to further their agenda.

Use the countries tolerance to eventually turn the system into one of intolerance.

Viva la France for doing their part in nipping it in the bud.

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PostTue Apr 12, 2011 1:29 am » by Thebluecanary


captainkarizma wrote:
I see your point , might I ask what you think of going to a country that would make you wear one?


If I went of my own free will to a country where it was required by law to wear a veil out in public I would do so if it meant that was the only way that I could transact whatever business I had there. I would not choose to live in such a country, but if I visited there I would abide by their rules while there.

However, the veil wearing women in France are not non-believers who are adapting to a cultural mode of dress in order to fit in and not be hassled (as I would be if I were to suddenly decide to visit Afghanistan.) They are religiously and culturally bound to wear the veil over their faces....as far as their spiritual life and their cultural rules are concerned, they don't have a choice in the matter. Making it illegal to wear such a garment in the country where they now live does not free them from any of the circumstances that make them have to wear the veil. They HAVE to wear it, in order to leave the house. Therefore, making it illegal to wear the garment in public does not help them in any way. It makes it more likely that they will be prisoners in their own homes unable to even walk outside on the street.

If the intent of the legislation was to make Muslim leaders reconsider the veil for women, I think it will be a fail. They'll just tell their women to stay home and their women will have to listen to them. Their fundamental culture and beliefs will not change. They will just feel more like outsiders and it will ultimately lead to more division between Muslims and Non Muslims. And I am also pretty concerned that the legislation is aimed specifically at an ethnic/religious mode of dress...imagine the uproar if there was legislation banning the public wearing of Yarmulkes or requiring Sikhs to cut their hair and beards....
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PostTue Apr 12, 2011 1:36 am » by Captainkarizma


thebluecanary wrote:
captainkarizma wrote:
I see your point , might I ask what you think of going to a country that would make you wear one?


If I went of my own free will to a country where it was required by law to wear a veil out in public I would do so if it meant that was the only way that I could transact whatever business I had there. I would not choose to live in such a country, but if I visited there I would abide by their rules while there.

However, the veil wearing women in France are not non-believers who are adapting to a cultural mode of dress in order to fit in and not be hassled (as I would be if I were to suddenly decide to visit Afghanistan.) They are religiously and culturally bound to wear the veil over their faces....as far as their spiritual life and their cultural rules are concerned, they don't have a choice in the matter. Making it illegal to wear such a garment in the country where they now live does not free them from any of the circumstances that make them have to wear the veil. They HAVE to wear it, in order to leave the house. Therefore, making it illegal to wear the garment in public does not help them in any way. It makes it more likely that they will be prisoners in their own homes unable to even walk outside on the street.

If the intent of the legislation was to make Muslim leaders reconsider the veil for women, I think it will be a fail. They'll just tell their women to stay home and their women will have to listen to them. Their fundamental culture and beliefs will not change. They will just feel more like outsiders and it will ultimately lead to more division between Muslims and Non Muslims. And I am also pretty concerned that the legislation is aimed specifically at an ethnic/religious mode of dress...imagine the uproar if there was legislation banning the public wearing of Yarmulkes or requiring Sikhs to cut their hair and beards....




The line between religion and politics and culture is the very heart of Islam, this is not the case for France so the question remains who is right? , I believe the Islamic faith is using the the flaws of democracy to further its religious, political totalitarian ideals.
:robot: this is the captain speaking :badair:

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PostTue Apr 12, 2011 1:39 am » by Rydher


I believe the Islamic faith is using the the flaws of democracy to further its religious, political totalitarian ideals.

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PostTue Apr 12, 2011 1:49 am » by Thebluecanary


captainkarizma wrote:
I believe the Islamic faith is using the the flaws of democracy to further its religious, political totalitarian ideals.


And you may be right. However, how does banning a single article of clothing stop this from happening? In my opinion, banning articles of clothing is a silly symbolic action. It does not address the actual social, religious, or political differences between Muslims and non-Muslims. It only makes a statement of disapproval of how certain people choose (or don't choose) to dress. For them to bill it as somehow beneficial to the women it effects is even sillier. They could at least have the balls to call it what it is: we don't like you, we don't like your religion, and we don't want to see your women dressed weird every day reminding us how nervous you make us.
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PostTue Apr 12, 2011 2:04 am » by Phoenix rising


Its not so much about how u dress but about concealment, wanted pedophiles and murderers could evade capture leading to more murders and so on, this has already happend on a few occasions, seriously how many of u feel comfortable chatting to a blacked out mask?
I beleive france has got it spot on here.
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PostTue Apr 12, 2011 2:06 am » by Kolgoroth


I cannot begin to express how much I do not care that these Muslims feel persecuted against. These savages would fire bomb a school in the name of their Draconian God and take the head of a innocent as a trophy. Cry me a river because now we can see the tears streaming from your shroud-less face.

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PostTue Apr 12, 2011 2:11 am » by Spock


thebluecanary wrote:They could at least have the balls to call it what it is: we don't like you, we don't like your religion, and we don't want to see your women dressed weird every day reminding us how nervous you make us.



Could you imagine though?

But, good enough being said without saying it. Nobody cares about the Mormons in ties on bicycles, or the hindus in their orange robes or the buddhists, or some guy wearing a kilt with his balls showing when he sits down.

But I have a reason to be suspicious of fully hooded people - especially in black hoods. It's natural.

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PostTue Apr 12, 2011 2:18 am » by Mozi!!a


domdabears wrote:I seen this.
How is it illegal to dress a certain way???

That's dictatorship right there!

:clapper:

no fucking doubt about it :flop:

they have the right wear whatever they want to wear
that's freedom baby

it always starts small and .......... :think:

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PostTue Apr 12, 2011 3:52 am » by Torofamily


All excellent points. Bluecanary has laid out valid and well worded points that make it hard to dispute but Dom's point is my first reaction to this story.

After all said though I think I have to agree with the Captain on this one
captainkarizma wrote:I disagree , because of the fact you cannot see facial expressions and alters your very perception of the person , this is socially unacceptable in non muslim culture.
Too bad for them if they want a culture that allows it, why go to another country and feel free to impose your beliefs on the current culture.
If their country is so bad they feel the need to relocate . Don't bring the ideals that made you flee that country.
If they want change in their life and relocate then assimilate also.
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