France: 1,193 vehicles torched on New Year’s Eve

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PostWed Jan 02, 2013 8:12 am » by Iwanci


or does chaos breed evil?
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PostWed Jan 02, 2013 9:06 am » by Cia212


Iwanci wrote:or does chaos breed evil?

Either way, it implies that Islam is evil - either the cause of chaos or the resulting evil.

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PostWed Jan 02, 2013 12:02 pm » by Tjahzi


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PostWed Jan 02, 2013 12:44 pm » by Perronick


Cia212 wrote:
Iwanci wrote:or does chaos breed evil?

Either way, it implies that Islam is evil - either the cause of chaos or the resulting evil.


Does your definition of evil extends to the other religions or is it just a matter of Islam? Is Christianity included, for example?

Where is Zetgel btw? I'd like to hear what he has to say.

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PostWed Jan 02, 2013 1:03 pm » by Phaeton


Cia212 wrote:
Iwanci wrote:or does chaos breed evil?

Either way, it implies that Islam is evil - either the cause of chaos or the resulting evil.


:lol:

Holy mother of Jesus.

Yes, a bunch of ghetto dwelling underclass of society individuals who call themselves Muslim burning cars MUST mean their religion is sheer evil.

We have proof, finally!

Lets all jump on the Islam = Evil bandwagon.

Lets UP the WAR ON ISLAM, erm, I mean 'war on terror'.. ofcourse.

Lets focus on an imagined, synthesized enemy instead of those that play us out against eachother.

In fact, lets just end all religions and shun all religious people as the pariahs they really are.

Did you vote last time? I did! Because you know, we all need to excercise our constitutional right to vote!

Lets bring in our guns and swap our freedom for liberty! Change!

Moron :flop:
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PostWed Jan 02, 2013 2:16 pm » by Iwanci


So yes there are a few who correlate Islam with evil, there are also those who think christianity is evil, and lest we forget catholisicm is also considered by some to be the nexus of evil.... and so on and so forth.

Vehicles being set alight in France on New Years has nothing to do with religion in my opinion (this is my stance and what I have been saying), there are social issues that seem to affect muslim people the most in these areas of France, this is not a slander but a reality (I know this for fact as I frequent France often and have family and friends living there).


I do believe that ALL religion is used to unite people for good and for bad, there is no denying that religion doesn't do this. Religion is not the cause for the chaos, nor the root of the evil, but it does provide those looking for a reason to hate with an opportunity to seek comfort with like minded individuals, no matter which religion, they all do the same for their people... and let's not even start talking about those opportunistic people who hide behind religion for their actions...

Belief :flop:
Religion :top:
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PostWed Jan 02, 2013 6:25 pm » by Phaeton


So yes there are a few who correlate Islam with evil, there are also those who think christianity is evil, and lest we forget catholisicm is also considered by some to be the nexus of evil.... and so on and so forth.


RCC is about as far from the teachings of Christ as one might get. Just like terrorism is just about as far from the teachings of the Qur'an as one might get.

This is the point.

The actions of these people have no bearing whatsoever on the resp. religions they say they adhere to. Or would we say that the pedophile trend in the RCC has its source in the teachings of Christ or the Bible?

Completely detached from any form of logic.

Unless ofcourse one reads the respective scriptures like they were an encyclopedia, which more and more people do these days. Irony would have it religion [ie. Islam] bashers do this as well as the religious [ie. Islamic] extremists.


There IS an organised effort against Islam, against Christianity.

Islamic terrorism is, with an exception to the rule here and there, synthesized.

The pedophile outings in the RCC is, also, synthesized.

Public opinion regarding religion is being engineered.

The trend to view the Abrahamic religions as 'evil' and 'undesirable' c.q. 'primitive' is, again, organised - and in complete line with the plan to change the world in their favor.

'A New Age'.

The [Babylonian] dying god [represented by trinity; El, Asherah, Baal - Nimrod, Semirames, Tammuz - Osiris, Isis, Horus etc etc] instead of the One Eternal G*d.


Your daily dose of crazy has just been served.
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"All our science measured against reality, is primitive and childlike - yet, in contemporary consensus, its the most precious thing we have"


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PostThu Jan 03, 2013 7:42 am » by Iwanci


So in essence Phaeton you are agreeing with me... because that was my whole point, religion is not the cause of the chaos, rather the excuse.

The RCC is not far from the teaching of Christ, nor is terrorism far from the Quaran, simply because religious writings are not worth the paper they are written on, further to that I will say that there were NO teachings from Christ. Sorry if I offend you mate, but I am yet to see any Christ nor have I ever seen any teachings from said Christ... and before you get antsy, understand that I have a religious background and I am yet to see anything that ANY MAN could not think up nor write, as a matter of fact, I don't believe that Christ (the one you refer to) ever wrote a thing, was it not other people's writings that made up the bible? Yes, you will say that he spoke through them, he appeared to them in their dreams and in visions, etc etc... but who is he? ANY man can sit back, relax and reflect and ponder and day dream and become prophetic if he wants to, ANY MAN... so what words of wisdom did these teachings impart that have had such an astounding affect on the masses?? He shall not kill? Shall not steal?? Shall not covet thy neighbours wife?? Are these the sorts of things that make a man mighty? Are these not simple and logical statements that even the layperson with no knowledge of anything would assume to be bad??

Show me words of wisdom my friend, show me what the Christ actually did or said that should make me stand up and take notice... further, show me ONE person who follows the words of their religion to the letter...rather, what I have seen in my travels are people clinging on to 'faith' on a needs only basis, from convenience, and I too have been guilty of that... if the words are so powerful why do religious people only tend to gravitate towards them in times of selfish need?

You Phaeton, you are a Christian? A Jew? A Muslim? What is your faith? Can you tell me that you follow the words of your faith everyday without bias, without wavering? I don't even know any priests who could hand on heart state that... so what good are words when you only take in the ones that you want ?

The only righteousness is the belief that MAN, not myths not imagination, MAN is capable of greatness both good and bad, and MAN is ultimately to be praised or cursed for his actions. Do you think there is a reason why the scriptures state that god created man in his likeness? I think that these words are deeper than most would want to admit, god created man in his likeness because god was man... perhaps from another older civilisation? Planet? etc etc... perhaps... but not the bearded guy that sits in the sky looking down on this earth... sorry, that god I do not buy.
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PostThu Jan 03, 2013 3:45 pm » by Phaeton


Iwanci wrote:So in essence Phaeton you are agreeing with me... because that was my whole point, religion is not the cause of the chaos, rather the excuse.

One of the vehicles through which the folly of Man [lust for personal gain, power] is exercised, yes.

The RCC is not far from the teaching of Christ, nor is terrorism far from the Quaran, simply because religious writings are not worth the paper they are written on,

This is an irrational, emotional and faulty remark.

further to that I will say that there were NO teachings from Christ. Sorry if I offend you mate, but I am yet to see any Christ nor have I ever seen any teachings from said Christ... and before you get antsy, understand that I have a religious background and I am yet to see anything that ANY MAN could not think up nor write, as a matter of fact, I don't believe that Christ (the one you refer to) ever wrote a thing, was it not other people's writings that made up the bible?

If you cannot discern value in the words of this man we are discussing here, you have either not read scripture or are so alien to my character, specifying these teachings would be quite meaningless.

Yes, you will say that he spoke through them, he appeared to them in their dreams and in visions, etc etc... but who is he? ANY man can sit back, relax and reflect and ponder and day dream and become prophetic if he wants to, ANY MAN...


Is that a fact. Prophetic in the way you have done here in the recent past? Claiming to know what people will think of us in the future concerning the religious congregations? I think not sir. You might think this to be true, but Id kindly beg to differ. If any man could be prophetic through relaxation and reflection we as a race would not be where we are at today. Either that or we are willingly and knowingly self destructive.


so what words of wisdom did these teachings impart that have had such an astounding affect on the masses?? He shall not kill? Shall not steal?? Shall not covet thy neighbours wife?? Are these the sorts of things that make a man mighty? Are these not simple and logical statements that even the layperson with no knowledge of anything would assume to be bad??


That is exactly what makes a man 'mighty'; living righteously. It takes a mighty man to not be swayed by the lusts around him. Everyone can cheat, murder and steal.

They might be self evident, but to not know the consequence, to not know the damage one would do to his own by such acts, they would grow null and void - disregarded - because of the nature of Man and / or the toxic environment he lives in. It would become part of our 'culture', like it is again becoming right now. I dont know if you have looked around you recently, but personal ethics & morals are on a steep fall. Perversity is becoming normal.

We have discussed this before.
As I see it we are all children, however old you might be. And like children, if you just tell them to not loot the cookyjar without specifying or exemplifying the consequence, you can bet your bottom dollar the cookyjar will be looted.

We are not the apex of intelligence, we are no authority on anything. Our science is primitive and childlike. We are all children with limited understanding of our surroundings who think they are the be all end all of this planet, this reality. We are not. In my opinion ofcourse.

I dont know what sort of religion you adhered to in the past, but it would not have been centred around the person we in the West know as Jesus. The teachings you just named originate from the commandments given to Moses. The teachings of Jesus give further insight as to why one would want to ahere to the commandments, and the nature of the Kingdom of G*d and our present reality, for instance.



Show me words of wisdom my friend, show me what the Christ actually did or said that should make me stand up and take notice... further, show me ONE person who follows the words of their religion to the letter...rather, what I have seen in my travels are people clinging on to 'faith' on a needs only basis, from convenience, and I too have been guilty of that... if the words are so powerful why do religious people only tend to gravitate towards them in times of selfish need?


I will 'show' you no such thing. You could show it to yourself though, by actually reading what you condemn. That goes for the teachings of Jesus as well as Muhammad.

I say this because I have a strong feeling you have not made any effort to read it yourself, based on what you say and have said to me [which seems to imply a very shallow 'experience' with scripture]. If I am wrong, please say so and I will forward some content.

If you want to know about religion; what it actually teaches, look at scripture, not people.



You Phaeton, you are a Christian? A Jew? A Muslim? What is your faith? Can you tell me that you follow the words of your faith everyday without bias, without wavering? I don't even know any priests who could hand on heart state that... so what good are words when you only take in the ones that you want ?

I am none of the above. I adhere to no physical church, temple or mosque, no one congregation. I believe in and [try to] adhere to scripture, based on somewhat of a personal 'descriptor key', like everyone does when interpreting that kind of material.


The only righteousness is the belief that MAN, not myths not imagination, MAN is capable of greatness both good and bad, and MAN is ultimately to be praised or cursed for his actions. Do you think there is a reason why the scriptures state that god created man in his likeness? I think that these words are deeper than most would want to admit, god created man in his likeness because god was man... perhaps from another older civilisation? Planet? etc etc... perhaps... but not the bearded guy that sits in the sky looking down on this earth... sorry, that god I do not buy.


The fact we as a int., mainly Western society place all that doesnt fit our present and limited paradigm as 'myths and imagination', only accepting something when it is seen, touched, measured & quantified, is in line with my earlier remark concerning our misplaced feelings of authority and superiority.

Righteousness is taking the hard way, choosing that which does not come easy - to help oneself through helping others. What I have said does in no way contradict that Man is capable of greatness in both good and bad, and will be treated by his peers according to [how] his actions [are viewed].

Man was created in His likeness, that is what it says, yes. I have thought what you stated here, and who am I to say this isnt a possibility. But it certainly wasnt Man who created our present reality, our universe.

Calling G*d 'a bearded guy that sits in the sky looking down on earth' is, as you started out, completely irrational [no offence intended]. Makes me think you have watched too many movies like 'Bruce Almighty'. Cant really take that serious can I friend Iwancy. People scoff religious folk for praying to 'an imaginary bearded guy on a cloud', implying they are intellectually above the religious, like they have 'proceeded to the next level', intellectually 'evolved' so to say. While in actual fact they are exemplifying their complete and utter misconception of the G*d concept the lionpart of religious individuals hold.

Cheers bro


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PostFri Jan 04, 2013 2:58 am » by Iwanci


Phaeton, I like the bantar with you my friend...

But for every 'illogical' or 'emotive' comment you accuse me of (and rightly so) you rebut with your own illogical and emotive comments.. NO, I cannot see the future, but I can see the past and I can see the present, and I can see the correlations we have drawn and the lessons we have or have not learnt from the past.. and I can see a pattern, a never ending pattern, a pattern which ensures that we as a race continue to make the same mistakes.. and ONE of the LARGEST causes of our errors (IMO) is the blatant and unquestionable belief in a deity of who there is ZERO, NO, NADA, NIENTE, NIXBA proof. Now, a rational and logical person (as you state that I am the opposite) would never in their right mind accept anything that comes without proof, but here, in the religious context, the so called rational and logical person is willing to throw away all that makes him rational and logical?? Nope, I don't buy it sorry. Religion is a creature of your (their) imagination, a creature who is released on convenience and nothing else, a creature of comfort a creature offering 'answers' to unanswerable questions that have perplexed mankind for millenia (why are we here? how did we come to be? is there an afterlife? etc etc), and mind you sir, the answers it provides are simple not only illogical and irrational but bordering on ludricrous and insanity.

If you my friend were to live your life as the scriptures state you should, then why all the angst against government powers trying to tax the bejesus out of you? why all the angst against governments or corporations or greedy people trying to take your assets? Does religion not tell us not to cling to material things? So why not just give it all away? I am assuming you do own assets mate?

If you Phaeton truly believe in the words of another man, then why that man Jesus? What were the exact words that he spoke or wrote that pulled at your heart strings and converted you? What words of wisdom did you not already know? What consequences are you afraid of? Burning in a pit of fire for all eternity? Really?? The so called devil luring you and then spending the rest of his days torturing you? Really? What sir are you afraid of?

And then again, why should you be afraid at all Phaeton? Your god should be compasionate no? Your god should protect you from harm no? Or do you fear your god? In which case your god may in fact be your demon.

My comments Phaeton may indeed be irrational or emotive, but none less or more so than yours, we are lookimg at the same picture but indeed are seeing different things. If and only if I would assume that a god did in fact exist, a creator of any kind (be he alien, scientific, deity etc), this creator made us into who we are and gave us abilities, all good up to this point, however the 'flaw' comes when we look at this and see that he will now be very upset if we do certain things that he frowns upon, the same things that he gave us the ability to do... so why then give us this ability?? To test us? for what purpose? He deliberatley made us faulty and suseptible to corruption? For what purpose? To test us? He could spare himself so much angst could he not by simply making a species that was perfect, no? He could simply take the 'broken' humans and eliminate them, no? Nope, he needs to do what he tells us not to do, have an almighty war, good vs evil.. the final battle.... seriously? And mind you, the victor is well known, because god is more pwoerful than the devil, so what is the point?? To test us? for what? He knows (as do we) that man is entirely corruptible, here you are sir Phaeton, following and preaching the words, and yet I ask you one question... hand on your heart, can you tell me that you are rightous in the eyes of your lord? Not corruptible and you follow the words of your lord without fail? Do you Phaeton? Do you own assets? Do you give your everything to the needy? Do you tolerate people for all their weaknesses? Are you humble? Do you own a donkey and live a modest life?

Not trying to be funny here mate, but reading your statements (as well intended as they may be) and following the words of your lord should mean that if we all live as he did, humble and compasionate lives then YES the world would be a better place (no doubt), but look around starting from yourself and tell me what you see... do you live your life like your lord intended you to?

What I see my friend is a bunch (a rather large bunch) of hyporcrites, not from any ONE religion but ALL religions... I have seen the most unreligious people living their lives closer to that of your lord without even intending to do so, and I have seen the most religious people living lives so far from that intended by your lord that it would make you sick...

I contend one thing, the truth is often in the contradiction, the further from religion you go, the closer to following the words of your lord you may actually get. This to me is the lifting of the veils, not some bullshit memorisation of a text that was not only written full of faults but has been manipulated through the ages... Living life with the acceptance of who we are as human beings, with the acceptance of who our brother and sisters are, and trying to bring out our inner goodness, not some pretence and hiding behind scriptures. I see much through history that has culminated in human sufferance through the word of scripture and personally, I detest it.

Give me one good MAN any day over a false prophet and I will show you how life should be lived.

It ALL starts in the heart, the brain is then engaged to materialise it. It does not begin in the brain, which is how religion is actually taught.

Anyway, that was my rant for the day...

I would love a chat room environment, we could actually spend hours discussing these matters... all good and all healthy...

:flop:
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