Gaza and the Politics of “Greater Israel”

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PostTue Nov 20, 2012 4:28 am » by zangazanga75


Israel pulled out of gaza in 2005

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PostTue Nov 20, 2012 4:34 am » by Noentry


zangazanga75 wrote:Israel pulled out of gaza in 2005


You would like people to believe that.

Since withdrawal, however, Israel has claimed a right to make military incursions into Gaza at any time and place of its choosing. One needs only glance at the latest book by Breaking the Silence (BtS), an Israeli NGO, to see this is the case. The 431-page volume, aptly titled “Occupation of the Territories“, covers Israeli soldiers’ accounts of both Gaza and the West Bank throughout the decade.

“The perception of most Israelis is that we left Gaza and that Gaza is not occupied anymore,” Mikhael Manekin, a co-director of BtS, told me in a recent interview. “That’s how the government and military present it even though there’s a very big gap between that and what happens on the ground.”

Manekin said in Israel it’s difficult to find a map that does not include Gaza and the West Bank as part of the Jewish state. “When you look at testimonies, it makes sense to put them on the same map.”

One BtS testimony by a soldier from the Givati Brigade describes the regularity and breadth of Israeli military operations in Gaza between Israel’s withdrawal and and the Gaza War of late 2008 and early 2009:

There was a template. It started with Operation Hot Winter [end of February - beginning of March 2008] because until then it was the largest operation ever, not the longest, but in scope and with the most achievements. Before that there was Operation ‘Fall Clouds’ sometime in 2006, … it was a 48-hour operation, and afterwards for five months it turned out that there was a battalion operation, the battalion plus a little less than a company.

During those five months, Israel made six battalion-scale incursions and executed a host of company-sized missions into the Strip.


When Israel’s advocates insist that Gaza is not occupied, they are trying to justify its failure to fulfill its legal responsibilities to the people who live there. “(Israel) wants to have the ‘rights’ without the ‘responsibilities’,” said Cobban, a sometime IPS colleague.

But there are more essential qualities of occupation that can still apply to Israel’s actions within (incursions) and around (blockade) Gaza. “Occupation is about control,” said Mitchell Plitnick, the former U.S. director of B’tselem, an Israeli human rights organization. “Israel maintains control over all ingress and egress — with Egypt, in the south — as well as the coastline and the airspace. To the extent Israel maintains that control, it is still occupying Gaza.”


Think again.
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PostTue Nov 20, 2012 4:50 am » by Lowsix


Nothin funnier than someone who DOESNT live there,
telling someone who does..what its like.

The FACT is that they did withdraw their main battle presence,
internal checkpoints and withdrew their armor.

UNder the auspices that the rockets FROM Gaza would stop.

They didnt.

So yes, there are 'incursions'.

They withdrew, however..but it wasnt good enough..
as it never is.

now Hamas is DARING Israel to invade.

For the SOLE purpose of getting more footage of collateral damage..
IN other words, They are sacrificing their own people for the sake of a few YouTube Videos.

Years after they got what they asked for.

makes perfect sense.
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PostTue Nov 20, 2012 4:57 am » by Noentry


The fact is Lowsix.

They are under occupation.
Through an economic embargo.
They starved the people.
They destroyed the resources.
They cut them off from the rest of the world.
They have about 80 percent who need food aid.

Does this not sound like an occupation to you?


What makes perfect sense?

For the SOLE purpose of getting more footage of collateral damage..
IN other words, They are sacrificing their own people for the sake of a few YouTube Videos.


Thats what you think makes perfect sense?

Really!
"The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority.
The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority.
The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking."
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PostTue Nov 20, 2012 5:21 am » by Noentry


Here is a youtube video that makes perfect sense to me.

Gaza's Reality (Occupation 101 Movie Clip)


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They live in fear and terror this is a result of the occupation by Israel.
"The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority.
The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority.
The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking."
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PostTue Nov 20, 2012 5:23 am » by Noentry


Occupation 101 - the truth about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict

Full version


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"The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority.
The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority.
The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking."
A. A. Milne

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PostTue Nov 20, 2012 5:52 am » by Lowsix


Noentry wrote:The fact is Lowsix.

They are under occupation. - Yes By Hamas.
Through an economic embargo. - Made worse, by a factor of a HUNDRED by hamas. Fatah was willing to negotiate, and regulate Gaza with the Palestinian authroity. They are regularly captured, killed and tortured by Hamas.
They starved the people. - Yes, Hamas is starving and sacrificing its own citizens.
They destroyed the resources. - Ok, yes.
They cut them off from the rest of the world. - No they have not. The Rafah crossing in egypt was open..(as well as others) well UNTIL EGYPT started terror attacks there...The land crossings remain open. The sea routes, not so much.
They have about 80 percent who need food aid. - Hamas has complete and total control of the MASSIVE amounts of aid that goes thru there...and they are holding their citizens politically hostage for it, as well as holding it for themselves. Fatah (or opposition) groups are regularly denied aid by hamas....even when available..

Does this not sound like an occupation to you? - No, The Army withdrew.


What makes perfect sense?

For the SOLE purpose of getting more footage of collateral damage..
IN other words, They are sacrificing their own people for the sake of a few YouTube Videos.


Thats what you think makes perfect sense?

Really!


Makes more sense than challenging one of the worlds deadliest armies to Invade you because you think you can whip them..thats for FUCK sure.
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PostTue Nov 20, 2012 6:02 am » by Noentry


UN: We still consider Gaza "occupied"


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http://www.unwatch.org At Jan. 19, 2012 daily press briefing, Martin Nesirky, Spokesperson for the UN Secretary-General, responded to UN Watch's earlier challenge as to why the UN persists in calling Gaza "occupied" when Hamas last week said it's not. Transcript follows below.

Question: Yesterday at the stakeout, Valerie Amos referred to, answering to a question about whether Gaza was occupied or not, she referred to a Palestinian occupied territory, meaning the West Bank and Gaza, implying that Gaza is not occupied. So I wanted to know, where does the UN stand on this question? Is Gaza occupied or not, according to the UN?

Spokesperson: Well, under resolutions adopted by both the Security Council and the General Assembly on the Middle East peace process, the Gaza Strip continues to be regarded as part of the Occupied Palestinian Territory. The United Nations will accordingly continue to refer to the Gaza Strip as part of the Occupied Palestinian Territory until such time as either the General Assembly or the Security Council take a different view.

Question: Can I follow up on that? It is the legal definition of occupation and why is Gaza considered occupied?

Spokesperson: Well, as I have just said, there are Security Council and General Assembly resolutions that cover this. For example, there was a Security Council resolution adopted on 8 January 2009 — 1860 — and that stressed that the Gaza Strip constitutes an integral part of the territory occupied in 1967. And as you know, Security Council resolutions do have force in international law. Furthermore, there is a resolution from the General Assembly from 20 December 2010, and while it noted the Israeli withdrawal from the Gaza Strip and parts of the northern West Bank, it also stressed, in quotes, "the need for respect and preservation of the territorial unity, contiguity and integrity of all of the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem". So just to repeat that the United Nations will continue to refer to the Gaza Strip as part of the Occupied Palestinian Territory until either the General Assembly or the Security Council take a different view on the matter.
"The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority.
The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority.
The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking."
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PostTue Nov 20, 2012 6:07 am » by Noentry


Lowsix wrote:
Makes more sense than challenging one of the worlds deadliest armies to Invade you because you think you can whip them..thats for FUCK sure.


Lowsix I dont think they are challenging them because they can whip them.

I think it is more out of desperation.

End of the day they are an occupied people and this is what you would expect from them.

Armed resistance against an occupying force is not a choice it is an inevitability.
"The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority.
The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority.
The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking."
A. A. Milne

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PostTue Nov 20, 2012 9:07 am » by zangazanga75


hamas is not an armed resistance against an occupying force, it is a muslim terror organisation designed to cast terror into the hearts of non believers, to kill and be killed for allah , (quran 9.111), and to further jihad and sharia into places far beyond israel andalucia and rome
israel can not allow an open freeway for rockets coming from iran and other places to flow in undisturbed, thats why the kind of freedom you are talking about for hamas in not realistic


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