God Vs. Science, Faith and Absence Thereof

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PostWed Feb 09, 2011 5:39 pm » by Truthdefender


evesmedusa wrote:http://www.unav.es/cryf/english/conocimientofiablidadyfalibilismo.html

Human Knowledge, Reliability and Fallibilism

Mariano Artigas
Napoli, 1992

One of the main subjects that we must face when we consider the image of man in our scientific age is the value of human knowledge which, in its turn, appears to be strongly dependent on our evaluation of empirical science. In this context, questions about the reliability of science occupy a central place. Jürgen Habermas has written that if we were to reconstruct the philosophical discussion of modern times as a judicial process, the only question that should be decided would be this: how can we obtain reliable knowledge? [Habermas 1968, p. 11].

It is well known that fallibilism is one of the main ideas of the Popperian philosophy and that it implies the negation of any kind of reliability. That fallibilism is widely widespread in contemporary philosophy can be exemplified by the following words of an "interested bystander" introduced by John Worral in a fictitious epistemological dialogue: "Everyone nowadays is, I take it, a fallibilist". However, fallibilism is a not too easy concept, as can be grasped if we examine the problems involved in the full quotation of Worral's interested bystander: "Everyone nowadays is, I take it, a fallibilist about scientific theories : by this I mean not a fallibilist in principle (this position seems to be dictated by logic alone) but a fallibilist in practice -the history of science clearly shows that even the most successful high level theories may eventually be rejected (even if they do standardly 'live on' as 'limiting cases')" [Worral 1989, p. 268]. These statements require non-trivial qualifications about what the rejection of a theory means, as Worral himself remarks, and they involve not only logical arguments but also some difficult epistemological and historical issues.

I will try to analyse what kind of problems fallibilism attempts to solve, what kinds of difficulties it meets because of its rejection of reliability, and how these difficulties can be overcome.


The quote above is the opening paragraph from the site sourced above it, "Fallibilism" - since the OP examples the Einstein v. Professor story - I believe it's relevant to this discussion, in that, both science and faith share a common denominator - "Human Knowledge" and both have profound effects upon the human condition, and it's existance, within both the physical and (for want of a better concept) spiritual worlds.

Quite a difficult read in parts, as stated in the opening paragraph, "fallibilism is a not too easy concept,", appropriate, since both subjects can be difficult, in that both are really concepts born from and for human knowledge.

In that I postulate, 'Science' stems from the human need for knowledge, whilst 'faith' stems from the basic need to find meaning from life - and in my opinion, both can be just as valid as the other, when applied to the human need for answers - they just exist within different lanes on the same road.

Eve.


Excellent reply, thank you/


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PostWed Feb 09, 2011 5:52 pm » by Truthdefender


daemonfoe wrote:Science is not what is written in books, it is what you can personally test on your own and find conclusions for. If you accept what is told to you then that is faith. A lot of people have faith in science and a lot of people have faith in God. There is no difference between the two faiths. The fact is though that science is not a religion unless you subscribe to it based on faith. Example: there are scientists all over the world that will say that cold fusion is impossible while other scientists all over the world say it is possible. So which is it? You won't know unless you conduct experiments yourself, and if you fail you still won't know that it's not possible..

The real difference between God and science is that you can conduct your own scientific experiments, but you cannot conduct your own God experiments. Most science that you learn is true, and some of it is false, but there is no way to know at all what parts of religion are true. Religion is purely faith based.

This is the problem I have with people who claim that science is completely fake. They never take the time to actually conduct experiments and examine the inner-workings of the results.

No one can say God is fake and actually prove it because there is no way to disprove anything. This applies to science, and everything else that can possibly be debated. You can only prove, you cannot disprove. If you claim you've disproved something then you've simply failed in your logic or experiment in attempts to prove it.

Basically everything is possible, therefore it is entirely possible that there is God, I just choose not to believe things based on faith. This doesn't mean I believe there is no God, it just means that I don't believe there is a God. I accept the fact that there could be, but I haven't seen any compelling evidence for the case. Experiments can prove that at least some science is true, therefore I choose to believe in those proven experiments.

God and science should not be compared. They are in no ways similar, and they can easily co-exist. One does not rule out the other.

If anything, if you want to prove that there IS a God, then you'll need to apply science to do it.


What experiments have you conducted to examine whether there is or is not a God? A heartfelt prayer could even be considered as such. He makes Himself known to those who search. No not in the Eliakim super prophet way, but in subtleties and providence. You see I feel most have not really searched.
In the courts we take human testimony as evidence. Why not their testimony of God. You see, people around the world are having these ultra-spiritual encounters with Jesus Christ. From Muslims in the middle east, to NDE's, and even alien abductees crying out to Him and He resues them. Is this not evidence? Research it. It's amazing!
Do not discount it out of hand.
For the record, I am not against science either, I just used the OP conversation as a discussion point.

I would still love someone to study and address the reliability and accuracy of Bible prophecy. Down to the day it is spot on. It cannot be just swept under the rug as coincidence or human meddling. .


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PostWed Feb 09, 2011 6:07 pm » by Roadkill


There is no such thing as good or evil. Those are human constructs that have no basis in reality.
Science will fly you into the Cosmos


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PostWed Feb 09, 2011 6:14 pm » by Boondox681


I would still love someone to study and address the reliability and accuracy of Bible prophecy. Down to the day it is spot on. It cannot be just swept under the rug as coincidence or human meddling. .

what up truth?
i like you,your passionate and learned in what you believe.you stick to your guns.that's a good thing.
i think it's just a matter of perspective.
instead of spending your time living your life by the belief in these prophecies,
spend your time being the prophet.

that's not a jab at you,my friend,but maybe at all of us.

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PostWed Feb 09, 2011 6:28 pm » by Truthdefender


Hey boon,
Your opinion is appreciated, but for now this is where I am.
Peace to you also.


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PostWed Feb 09, 2011 7:09 pm » by Charashc


knownawareness wrote:
charashc wrote:
knownawareness wrote:You will have to ask.


What was the word?
Thanks.


Thank you Charashc for reading my post and taking further interest.

The word is searched in Wikipedia: Although it appeared you will have to click etc to get back there.

The word was ' Cockaigne ' see the links at the bottom once you are on the page. Seriously of all the pages and links( Of the Internet ) and of all the words i could have used to finish my post . There is a reason this happened, I cannot forget it.

I could have provided a direct link to the page but it is more fun bringing up the page yourself is it not?

Knownawareness


Could you please explain this a bit further? I lost you in process and I find this interesting.
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PostWed Feb 09, 2011 7:15 pm » by 99socks


Good and Evil is an illusion.
http://www.thedailysheeple.com/obamas-doj-silent-as-new-black-panthers-leader-incites-violence-in-ferguson_082014








I can't speak about how much of the Constitution is in effect anymore... But thank God we still somewhat resemble a Republic and not a democracy!


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PostWed Feb 09, 2011 7:21 pm » by Helios


I enjoyed that mate a lot. Non believers especially here will always have a skeptics mind and therefore never find their place:) love religious threads
Let me take the waves out of the ocean
Let me take the stars down from the sky
Let me take the faith from your foundation
Let me take the wrong to make it right
Let me take away the dark like I’ve been here all night
Ending before I begin

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PostThu Feb 10, 2011 4:15 am » by Daemonfoe


truthdefender wrote:
daemonfoe wrote:Science is not what is written in books, it is what you can personally test on your own and find conclusions for. If you accept what is told to you then that is faith. A lot of people have faith in science and a lot of people have faith in God. There is no difference between the two faiths. The fact is though that science is not a religion unless you subscribe to it based on faith. Example: there are scientists all over the world that will say that cold fusion is impossible while other scientists all over the world say it is possible. So which is it? You won't know unless you conduct experiments yourself, and if you fail you still won't know that it's not possible..

The real difference between God and science is that you can conduct your own scientific experiments, but you cannot conduct your own God experiments. Most science that you learn is true, and some of it is false, but there is no way to know at all what parts of religion are true. Religion is purely faith based.

This is the problem I have with people who claim that science is completely fake. They never take the time to actually conduct experiments and examine the inner-workings of the results.

No one can say God is fake and actually prove it because there is no way to disprove anything. This applies to science, and everything else that can possibly be debated. You can only prove, you cannot disprove. If you claim you've disproved something then you've simply failed in your logic or experiment in attempts to prove it.

Basically everything is possible, therefore it is entirely possible that there is God, I just choose not to believe things based on faith. This doesn't mean I believe there is no God, it just means that I don't believe there is a God. I accept the fact that there could be, but I haven't seen any compelling evidence for the case. Experiments can prove that at least some science is true, therefore I choose to believe in those proven experiments.

God and science should not be compared. They are in no ways similar, and they can easily co-exist. One does not rule out the other.

If anything, if you want to prove that there IS a God, then you'll need to apply science to do it.


What experiments have you conducted to examine whether there is or is not a God? A heartfelt prayer could even be considered as such. He makes Himself known to those who search. No not in the Eliakim super prophet way, but in subtleties and providence. You see I feel most have not really searched.
In the courts we take human testimony as evidence. Why not their testimony of God. You see, people around the world are having these ultra-spiritual encounters with Jesus Christ. From Muslims in the middle east, to NDE's, and even alien abductees crying out to Him and He resues them. Is this not evidence? Research it. It's amazing!
Do not discount it out of hand.
For the record, I am not against science either, I just used the OP conversation as a discussion point.

I would still love someone to study and address the reliability and accuracy of Bible prophecy. Down to the day it is spot on. It cannot be just swept under the rug as coincidence or human meddling. .


In my post that you replied to I nowhere stated that I believe that there isn't a God. The whole point of my post was to say that you cannot disprove anything, therefore you cannot discount anything. I do not discount God, I simply do not have a reason to believe God exists. I have done no experiments to see if there is God because simply put, I'm not interested. For me personally it would be the equivalent of doing experiments to see if it's possible to stack up a tower of chicken eggs. It just doesn't matter to me.

Again, I never said God doesn't exist. I said that it hasn't been proven or dis-proven, therefore the possibility is still there, as is the possibility that God doesn't exist.
The two choices we have are something starting from nothing, or something existing infinitely. These are both paradoxes. The existence of everything is therefore a paradox. -daemonfoe

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PostThu Feb 10, 2011 4:17 am » by Daemonfoe


99socks wrote:Good and Evil is an illusion.


Are love and hate illusions?
The two choices we have are something starting from nothing, or something existing infinitely. These are both paradoxes. The existence of everything is therefore a paradox. -daemonfoe


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