Good article on Kratom...

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PostWed Jul 03, 2013 3:43 pm » by Spock


Back in September of 2012, David DiSalvo wrote an article which appeared in Forbes titled,

Is Kratom the New "Bath Salts" or Just an Organic Pain Reliever with Euphoric Effects?
You can read that article here: http://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2012/09/22/is-kratom-the-new-bath-salts-or-just-an-organic-pain-reliever-with-euphoric-effects/

Essentially, much like the pessimism I have heard from many others, he took a stance against this remedy, having never tried it himself.

Oto turned me onto this leaf after a conversation when I told him I had been taking pain killers for over a year for neck problems which I will be having surgery on later this year.

Anyway - many people wrote in to David and asked him to try Kratom himself, so he did and wrote about his findings which I think you will find very interesting...

This post is a follow-up to an article I wrote on Forbes entitled, The Kratom Experiment Begins.

First, I should explain why I am publishing this piece here instead of Forbes. When I wrote the original piece, I mentioned that I would be using Lucky Kratom brand capsules for the evaluation. This set off a cascade of comments and emails telling me that I was making a mistake limiting myself to that brand, for a variety of reasons.

At the same time, several Kratom distributors contacted me offering free samples to use during my evaluation. I decided to accept samples from three of these companies:

Mayan Kratom

Nutmeg Kratom

Online Kratom

Because I accepted these free samples, I felt it was no longer ethical to write the follow-up article on Forbes -- a venue for which I am paid to write. Instead I chose to move the follow-up here, to The Daily Brain, a blog I own and derive exactly zero compensation from.

I am grateful to each of the companies that supplied samples, because they enabled me to conduct a much more thorough evaluation than would have been possible with only one brand (Lucky Kratom – a product I paid for myself, I should add).

Having said that, I will not be comparing products from different companies in this post. That was never my intention. Rather, I will simply provide you with my personal experience with the products in general.

The two forms of Kratom I experimented with were powder and capsules. I also experimented with a variety of strains and “fusions” of different strains and extracts. Generally speaking, I took Kratom in the morning, usually mixed with a small amount of orange juice.

I did not experience a tremendous difference between strains, although the fusions that contained extracts were consistently more potent. Because the extracts lead to quicker tolerance, I spaced out my usage and tried to stick to regular strains most of the time. I especially liked Bali, Maeng Da and Green Thai.

Now for the effects.

My overall takeaway is that Kratom has a two-tiered effect. Initially it provides a burst of energy very similar to a strong cup of coffee. Unlike coffee, however, the energy I derived from Kratom was longer-lasting and level. My experience with coffee is that the initial burst is strong but it tapers and descends rapidly, leading to the well-known caffeine crash. The energy from Kratom, on the other hand, would often last for three or four hours, but was subtle enough that at no point did I feel like I was jumping out of my skin. I also did not experience an energy crash with any of the Kratom products I sampled.

The second-tier effect was relaxing, but fell short of being sedating. I never felt sleepy while taking Kratom, but I did experience a level relaxation that was pleasant, and balanced out the initial energy-boosting effects nicely.

As to side effects, I can’t say that I experienced any worth noting. A few times I noticed that my eyes were bloodshot after I used a fusion containing an extract, but that was not a consistent side effect and it never obscured my vision, nor did it seem related to any other drawbacks.

As to the difference between capsules and powder, I noticed that the powder worked faster, but the capsules seemed to be generally as effective, though with somewhat delayed effects. That makes perfect sense since it takes the stomach a bit longer to break down the gelatin containing the powder.

My biggest concern with most of the products I sampled is that it’s not easy to nail down the specific amount to take. I used “bakers spoons” that indicated how many grams a spoonful contained, but I’d strongly recommend anyone who wants to take the product long-term to invest in a decent-quality digital kitchen scale. I am indebted to several people who have sold Kratom for years for offering free advice on how to arrive at the correct amount for my body type (I'm six feet, 225 lbs with an athletic build).

In my case, about three grams was adequate to induce an effect, but I have been told by several regular Kratom users that amounts vary greatly by person. I can’t make any recommendations on the “right” amount to use. I simply experimented with amounts (guided by the advice I mentioned) until I found one that worked well for me.

My overall comment on Kratom is that it’s a lot like good coffee, but with a more even, long-lasting energy effect, and a much more pleasant “finish.”

As to the results of stopping usage, I can tell you without hyperbole that getting off coffee is a far worse experience than getting off Kratom. I was able to stop taking Kratom for three days and at most I experienced a bit of sluggishness that wore off in a day or so. Withdrawal from coffee, for me, includes at minimum two days of excruciating headaches that make me want to rip trees from the ground and toss them through store windows (something I've never actually done, mind you). Suffice to say, caffeine withdrawal is significantly worse than Kratom withdrawal, if it can even be called "withdrawal." There's no comparison whatsoever.

Having now experienced the product myself for a number of weeks, I can see no reason why it should be banned, or on what basis such a product would be banned if people can walk into a typical coffee shop and buy an enormous cup of an addictive substance that’s arguably more potent than any Kratom available anywhere.


Source: http://www.daviddisalvo.org/the-daily-brain/2013/4/5/results-of-my-kratom-experiment.html

Now, personally, I have stopped taking Kratom. I may take it sometime in the future as i still have some left, but I won't be doing it daily anymore. I have found, or I believe MAY be the case, that Kratom possibly ratchets up my hare trigger anxiety causing me to have more frequent panic attacks while not having it in my system. The only way I will know for sure is to stop taking it all together and see if the anxiety goes away completely. There have been times recently, while being under the influence of nothing, but having ingested Kratom the day before, that I have felt like I was losing my mind - which anyone that suffers panic attacks understands is part of it. Now, while having kratom in my system, I don't experience the anxiety, but I do experience the edginess of caffeine - much like the feeling espresso gives you, but I hate the feeling of being amped up. While I thoroughly enjoy the euphoric warmness of kratom - the speedy aspect of it I can not stand - and I believe has contributed to the resurgence of my panic attacks. So along with Kratom, I have also given up coffee, I switched to hot decaffeinated green tea a few days ago.

In a week I'll see if I can dig this thread up and post any changes in my anxiety without kratom and coffee.

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PostThu Jul 04, 2013 9:17 am » by Zer0


Weird Spock, for me the anxiety comes from knowing that I have Kratom, but I can not take it unless I wait 4 hours for an empty stomach, so those 4 hours feel like days, but once I take it (orange juice boosts the alkaloids BTW, making it more effective) I am the most relaxed and chilled guy there is.

I should mention there is different strands of Kratom, just like there is different strands of weed or any other herb, for example Bali tends to be more sedating, while Thai is more stimulating.
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PostThu Jul 11, 2013 11:19 am » by Spock


I just want to say about Kratom. Read all you can about it before you start, this article does not go into the hellish withdrawals someone can suffer when coming off. They are described as bad as heroin, just not being as long in duration - about a week.

This "herb", as many people refer to it - it's actually a tree leaf, may be sold in health stores, may be touted as a natural remedy, and I will vouch that it does make you feel very comfortable - but there is a wicked side to it.

Take it from someone that used it daily, that no longer uses it - Do Not Use It.


Master Otoel wrote:Weird Spock, for me the anxiety comes from knowing that I have Kratom, but I can not take it unless I wait 4 hours for an empty stomach, so those 4 hours feel like days, but once I take it (orange juice boosts the alkaloids BTW, making it more effective) I am the most relaxed and chilled guy there is.

I should mention there is different strands of Kratom, just like there is different strands of weed or any other herb, for example Bali tends to be more sedating, while Thai is more stimulating.



Oto, that anxiety you're talking about is part of the withdrawal. When you take it, the withdrawal is extinguished.

Bali or Super Bali ratcheted me up more; kratom is actually in the coffee family. I finally settled on Premium Indonesian. Red Vein Sumatran being the most sedating but also the weakest strand.

I feel like I should tell the health store about it, every time I went in there to pick some up there were multiple people at the counter to get more. Little do they know they were being enslaved.

If you're a casual user, once a week, you should stop - when you find yourself wanting everyday. Then it will become multiple times a day and then all day. Stop while you're ahead.

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PostThu Jul 11, 2013 11:44 am » by Tjahzi


smoked that shit twice.
drank kratom tea a few times.

don't know if we're talking about the same type of kratom, but i found i rather enjoyable.

wouldn't take that stuff on the daily tho.
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PostThu Jul 11, 2013 12:44 pm » by Zer0


Spock wrote:Oto, that anxiety you're talking about is part of the withdrawal. When you take it, the withdrawal is extinguished.

Bali or Super Bali ratcheted me up more; kratom is actually in the coffee family. I finally settled on Premium Indonesian. Red Vein Sumatran being the most sedating but also the weakest strand.

I feel like I should tell the health store about it, every time I went in there to pick some up there were multiple people at the counter to get more. Little do they know they were being enslaved.

If you're a casual user, once a week, you should stop - when you find yourself wanting everyday. Then it will become multiple times a day and then all day. Stop while you're ahead.


The thing is Spock, where I am from, there is literally like 8 people who use it, that is how the owner got to know me so well, because I was one of the "rare ones" I even have him on FB XD

I was only doing a regular dose, once a day when I did use to do it.

But it seems the popularity is increasing in your area, this is actually good/bad.

Good because there will be more demand, but bad because the government will try to ban it or at least tax it.

I even heard there was a movie made recently that referenced Kratom.. cant remember the name.. but it seems its becoming a household name now...
Master Raphael wrote:what you call the law of attraction was missing a vital aspect to the theory that I call the law of repulsion ...it is clear I drove the two of you together...using my repulsion not attraction

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PostThu Jul 11, 2013 2:26 pm » by Fatdogmendoza


Master Otoel wrote:
I even heard there was a movie made recently that referenced Kratom.. cant remember the name.. but it seems its becoming a household name now...


''The Incredible Burt Wonderstone''


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PostThu Jul 11, 2013 7:16 pm » by Zer0


Fatdogmendoza wrote:
Master Otoel wrote:
I even heard there was a movie made recently that referenced Kratom.. cant remember the name.. but it seems its becoming a household name now...


''The Incredible Burt Wonderstone''


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Thanks chief! :mrcool:

As you can clearly see from the film, they demonize kratom, just like they used to with weed.
Master Raphael wrote:what you call the law of attraction was missing a vital aspect to the theory that I call the law of repulsion ...it is clear I drove the two of you together...using my repulsion not attraction

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PostThu Jul 11, 2013 7:22 pm » by Spock


Yes they do, they are demonizing the effects - but there is no demonizing the addiction and withdrawal - that shit is real, and I bet that Kratom News guy would never admit to that.

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PostThu Jul 11, 2013 7:24 pm » by Zer0


Spock wrote:Oto turned me onto this leaf after a conversation when I told him I had been taking pain killers for over a year for neck problems which I will be having surgery on later this year.


Should had asked with my first post, are you better now that you are off the pain killers, or where you happy killing your liver everyday a little bit more?
Master Raphael wrote:what you call the law of attraction was missing a vital aspect to the theory that I call the law of repulsion ...it is clear I drove the two of you together...using my repulsion not attraction

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PostThu Jul 11, 2013 7:35 pm » by Spock


Type "Kratom Withdrawal" and "Kratom addiction" into google and read the results. I can vouch that what is said about it is not a lie - and anybody using Kratom with the idea that the bad is not part of it, is a fool.

Asking would I be better from Pain Killer because of Kratom is like asking if you'd rather fall off a building or stay on the roof and burn to death, at least on the way down there's a cool breeze.



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