History of Zionism

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PostTue Jan 24, 2012 3:38 am » by Noentry


You know Abdul14 if you dropped the Muslim name and was more honest I would be happy to debate this with you .
But as you are deceiving this forum,
I will not give you 1 second of my time.
I dont even watch your videos anymore it has been at least two months.
Everybody on this forum has had enough of your shit.
And I have said it before, you are an embarrassment to Jews around the world.
You paint them in a very bad way.
You discredit your message, because you pretend to be Muslim
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The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority.
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PostTue Jan 24, 2012 3:47 am » by Abdul14


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PostTue Jan 24, 2012 11:45 am » by Harbin


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PostTue Jan 24, 2012 12:11 pm » by Ironlikealion


Zionism got nothing to do with race .

Judaism is both, a religious faith and a ethnic group .
there is no Jewish race ,and Zionists dont think
the Jewish people are a race.
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PostTue Jan 24, 2012 1:46 pm » by Noentry


ironlikealion wrote:Zionism got nothing to do with race .

Judaism is both, a religious faith and a ethnic group .
there is no Jewish race ,and Zionists dont think
the Jewish people are a race.


You say this because you are blind, or you have absolutely no idea about your own movement. And what you claim to be.


Origins and definition of Zionism
The racist characteristics of nationalism can be found in the Zionist ideology and in the State of Israel, a nation state.
The word Zionism is used today for the foundational ideology of the Israeli nation state - the claims by which it justifies its existence.
However Zionism as a nationalist movement is older than that state: past and present Zionism do not always coincide.

Zionism is a diaspora nationalism of the Jewish people. In a diaspora nationalism, most members of the national group are not resident on the claimed national territory, and the nation state can only be achieved by 'return' migration.
Zionism is an unusual nationalism: it is largely the creation of a single individual, Theodor Herzl. He was the first to make a public claim to a Jewish State, and promoted that idea in Europe. His work reflected the general climate of nationalist revival movements in eastern Europe at the time, especially in the Austro-Hungarian empire.
It was almost inevitable, that a Jewish movement would identify Jews as 'a people' when all around them Germans, Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, Ruthenians, Slovenes, Croats, Serbs, and Hungarians were doing the same. The other historically possible options - a purely religious revival movement, and an emancipation movement - were side-tracked.

Zionism is also unusual because, in the early years, there was no clear idea of the national homeland.
There was a clear territorial concentration of Jews in Europe, in what is now Poland, Belarus, the Ukraine and southern Russia. However, except for local concentrations, they were in a minority even in this territory.
The idea of a Jewish nation state in eastern Europe was never influential in Zionism.
Some of the early plans for Jewish resettlement were not even formally nationalist: they made no claim to a state.
Resettlement in a British colony, such as Uganda, was for a time the most serious option. The negotiations came to nothing - but the idea influenced British policy, when Palestine became a British mandate territory, after the First World War.

By the time of the Balfour Declaration, Zionism was a standard nationalist movement. Zionists claimed to speak on behalf of a people, the Jewish people. They claimed a nation state for that people in Palestine, on the grounds that it was the historic homeland of the Jewish people. The 'Jewish people' for almost all Zionists was (and is) an ethno-national group - and not a religious community. A minority of religious Jews still opposes Zionism for religious reasons.



The most obvious exclusion, which was not foreseen by the early Zionists, is the status of the Palestinians in the occupied territories.
Theodor Herzl never imagined that a Jewish state would be an occupying power, and therefore the de facto government, for a large non-Jewish population.
In addition, about three million people belong to the clearly identifiable 'Palestinian-refugee' minorities, in other Arab countries, although most were born in their present country of residence.
The State of Israel clearly attributes an inferior status to this population: namely that they do not possess the right to Israeli citizenship.
This population is generally equivalent to the 'Palestinian people' in the occupied territories, although it includes small non-Jewish, non-Arab minorities.


That would not matter so much, if Israeli borders were open to all immigrants: but they are not, and this is another racist characteristic of Zionism.Israel has one of the highest immigration rates in history, but immigration policy has always been restrictive.
Although Israel grants citizenship to the resident Arab minority, it does not permit Arab immigration, even by former residents of its territory. Only those who stayed in their villages in 1948 got Israeli citizenship: those who crossed the front line to the Arab side can not get back - not as a citizen, and probably not as a visitor.
Other Arabs, who have no connection with Palestine, can not simply migrate to Israel, nor can most of the world's population. Israeli immigration is essentially for Jews only, and this is the most obviously racist policy of present Zionism. In this case, the State of Israel has a formal and explicit policy of Jewish immigration, which is clearly Zionist. It is the logical consequence of the original Zionist demand for a Jewish state formed by migration, meaning migration of Jews.
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The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority.
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PostTue Jan 24, 2012 2:21 pm » by Noentry


In one respect Israeli policy differs from most national immigration policies: citizenship can be indirectly acquired on religious grounds.

A person who converts to Judaism can be a Jew in the sense of the Israeli Law of Return, if the conversion is accepted as valid by religious authorities in Israel. The convert can then go to Israel (entry can not be legally refused), and can claim Israeli nationality and citizenship. Sometimes this is quoted by Israel's supporters, to show Israel is not racist.

In theory, all the inhabitants of the Palestinian territories can sincerely convert to Judaism tomorrow, and on acceptance of their conversion move to Israel. - where they will all presumably live as good and prosperous Israeli citizens.

In practice this is absurdly unlikely. And the question is: why should they have to convert to Judaism, when native-born atheist or Buddhist Israelis can still be part of the Jewish people?
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The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority.
The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking."
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PostTue Jan 24, 2012 4:27 pm » by Abdul14


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PostTue Jan 24, 2012 9:05 pm » by Noentry


Another racist characteristic, equally present in the state policies of Israel and present Zionist belief. It was not very relevant for the early Zionists, who were too far from a Jewish state to think about its future citizenship policy. Nevertheless, it was predictable even at the time Herzl wrote, on the basis of the general characteristics of European nation states (and of the Austro-Hungarian empire where he lived).

The child of an Israeli citizen mother and and Israeli citizen father is an Israeli citizen. (I am not sure if this applies to the children of Israeli Arabs, born in the occupied territories).
The child acquires this privilege without effort: no application under the Law of Return, no conversion to Judaism, no other qualification for citizenship. The child simply acquires the rights (and duties) of an Israeli citizen through unconscious biological process.

The child without this biological advantage (birth, or parentage, or genetic material) does not automatically acquire citizenship. Life in Israel is not always pleasant, and many western Jews hesitate to emigrate there, but within the region an Israeli-born child has the advantage.
The child born to Israeli settlers in central Hebron will statistically live longer, be better educated, and have a higher standard of living, then the Palestinian child born in an adjoining house. This advantage is part of the general advantage of being born in a rich country, which about one-fifth of the world's population share.

In citizenship and immigration issues, biology determines fate. Not inevitably, but because nation states are structured that way.
There is no inherent moral reason why states should limit immigration, or residence, or citizenship, simply on grounds of birth. In fact, it is hard to think of any moral justification for it.

It is clearly racist in the general sense of the word, and its derivation from the ideology of nationalism indicates the racist origins of that ideology. The nationalism underlying the nation state Israel, which is accurately called Zionism, is no different in this respect. Here too, Zionism is racist.
"The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority.
The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority.
The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking."
A. A. Milne

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PostTue Jan 24, 2012 10:52 pm » by Ironlikealion


noentry wrote:The child of an Israeli citizen mother and and Israeli citizen father is an Israeli citizen.
The child acquires this privilege without effort: no application under the Law of Return, no conversion to Judaism, no other qualification for citizenship. The child simply acquires the rights (and duties) of an Israeli citizen through unconscious biological process.


noentry wrote:The child without this biological advantage (birth, or parentage, or genetic material) does not automatically acquire citizenship.


One more lie to your long list of lies .

You are truely clueless, of course The child of an
Israeli citizen mother and and Israeli citizen father is an Israeli citizen.

and that applies to all citizens , Jews/Arabs/Christians or whatever ,just like
in most other countries .

The only difference is that Jews from all the world have the right of return
even if they weren't previously citizens because Israel is after all,
the only Jewish homeland ,and let me remind you that Judaism is
both ethnicity and religion .
got nothing to do with races or racism .
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PostTue Jan 24, 2012 11:54 pm » by Abdul14


palywood needs to send him back to taqqyia class cause obviously he didnt graduate successfully, and his salary for posting here also needs to be revaluated
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