In 1492, the natives discovered they were Indians...

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PostSun Jul 01, 2012 9:59 pm » by Iamthatiam


Jet17 wrote:Do people forget that the norse, and other tribes of asians and yes even europeans settled america long before indians inherited it?


You missed the whole point here, Jet! It is not about lands, it is about Cultures, hence the placing under Philosophy topic!

You believe they are more enlightened now under deturpated values, far away from them essencial way of life, connected with nature? Funny, I never though this harmony with nature to be exclusive with Science, only to societies primarily based on greed...One can be Scientifically evolved, though preserving the Enviroment, it is called Sustainability. :flop:
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PostSun Jul 01, 2012 10:35 pm » by Rydher


Iamthatiam wrote:You believe they are more enlightened now under deturpated values, far away from them essencial way of life, connected with nature?


Whose to say they were more enlightened then? What measurement are you using to tell if they are more enlightened then or now? What do you mean by enlightened? I get the feeling it's like that old person you telling you how much better it was 'back in the day'. But was it really?

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PostSun Jul 01, 2012 10:39 pm » by domdabears


Also, no one is stopping anyone from living with nature and being connected with it.

Lots of people do it. Not just Native Americans.

It's even become popular with the whole Bushcraft stuff. I would know.
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PostSun Jul 01, 2012 11:04 pm » by Jet17


Great point Rydher. exactly my meaning.

Indians own about 25% of this lands reservations still to this day. granted the circumstances were unfair for them in most cases, they cant cry wolf when most of their tribes now suffer from getting what they can from the current government, alcholism, and most tribes wont allow modern day economics to help their peoples as they think it would make tribes lose sight of their values.

well what values do they hold these days? blame the white man, take from his country, and drink heavily.

now this is not for all indians as I myself am one, but I recognize the fact that each must strive for their own,

its like saying that joe everymuslim is being opressed by his own religious laws, so therefore all indians must suffer.

I respect native culture, but not modern day give me indians who feel the need to complain about things that didnt happen to them, while asking for something in return.

its the same with reparations, and nationalist who feel they are owed something from others.

I had an indian associate of mine say I was hitler for wanting liberty, but yet this indian had the audacity to tell me to leave his country... also this indian served his country and seeks military benefits that all citizens pay and has two half white children.

I said, how dare you accuse me of something I didnt do to anyone, I was born on this ground like your peoples were, as were your half white children. do you exile all whites including your children who share blood with the whites?

needless to say that is where the conversation ended.

my point is, Im tired of being blamed for others assuming that indians were galatic knowledge pools of the earth and that they themselves were also the united peace peoples party when they werent either.

you cant claim others invaded when your own people invited those people to the land to use, trade with and learn from.

I am not responsible. someone would have come along eventually and more than likely had a similar outcome.

this isnt comparable to the fighting of the gaza, the dynamics are entirely different.
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PostMon Jul 02, 2012 12:25 am » by Fatdogmendoza


Jet17 wrote:Great point Rydher. exactly my meaning.

Indians own about 25% of this lands reservations still to this day. granted the circumstances were unfair for them in most cases, they cant cry wolf when most of their tribes now suffer from getting what they can from the current government, alcholism, and most tribes wont allow modern day economics to help their peoples as they think it would make tribes lose sight of their values.

well what values do they hold these days? blame the white man, take from his country, and drink heavily.

now this is not for all indians as I myself am one, but I recognize the fact that each must strive for their own,

its like saying that joe everymuslim is being opressed by his own religious laws, so therefore all indians must suffer.

I respect native culture, but not modern day give me indians who feel the need to complain about things that didnt happen to them, while asking for something in return.

its the same with reparations, and nationalist who feel they are owed something from others.

I had an indian associate of mine say I was hitler for wanting liberty, but yet this indian had the audacity to tell me to leave his country... also this indian served his country and seeks military benefits that all citizens pay and has two half white children.

I said, how dare you accuse me of something I didnt do to anyone, I was born on this ground like your peoples were, as were your half white children. do you exile all whites including your children who share blood with the whites?

needless to say that is where the conversation ended.

my point is, Im tired of being blamed for others assuming that indians were galatic knowledge pools of the earth and that they themselves were also the united peace peoples party when they werent either.

you cant claim others invaded when your own people invited those people to the land to use, trade with and learn from.

I am not responsible. someone would have come along eventually and more than likely had a similar outcome.

this isnt comparable to the fighting of the gaza, the dynamics are entirely different.


When you say you are one what do you mean ... I am a little confused as you seem to be talking about yourself and the native american indiams as 'I' and 'they' Are you native American, forgive me if that is not your preferred choice of describing your ethnic background :oops: Im an ignorant Brit :peep:


Regarding colonisation, invasion (or whatever we like to term the process) of already occupied countries/ lands...it really depends on what the mission statement is/ was... I.E The Spanish Conquistadors had a lust for gold and silver and a desire to attain royal titles and favors by expanding Spain's empire with the hope of also winning God's favor by bringing Christianity to pagans... Im guessing none of that was seen by the peoples already occupying the land at the time as being beneficial to them...

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PostMon Jul 02, 2012 12:29 am » by domdabears


St. Augustine, Florida the oldest city in America.

Founded in 1565 by Spanish explorer and admiral Pedro Menéndez de Avilés.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Augustine,_Florida
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PostMon Jul 02, 2012 12:36 am » by 2020


Where is my original reply post?

Dont worry dom i always take screenshots hahahahaha, IDIOT.
Last edited by 2020 on Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostMon Jul 02, 2012 12:38 am » by Fatdogmendoza


Domdabears wrote:St. Augustine, Florida the oldest city in America.

Founded in 1565 by Spanish explorer and admiral Pedro Menéndez de Avilés.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Augustine,_Florida

:flop: Cheers dom...You also have Acoma, New Mexico: Forty minutes drive east of Grants, New Mexico, lies the Pueblo (village) of Acoma, built on a sandstone mesa 367-feet above a valley and approximately 7,000 feet above sea level. The pueblo was built on a mesa for defensive purposes, keeping rival raiding tribes at bay. Native verbal history says Acoma was first inhabited about 700 AD although modern archeological evidence suggests it has been continuously occupied from 1150, making it America's oldest continually inhabited city. It is presently inhabited by a small population of Keresan-speaking Native Americans. Im not a hundred percent sure that it is a city in the modern sense of the word, however it is called 'The Sky City' :flop:

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PostMon Jul 02, 2012 12:46 am » by domdabears


2020 wrote:Where is my original reply post?

Dont worry dom i always take screenshots hahahahaha, IDIOT.

What the fuck are you talking about?

Your ass is paranoid or just stupid.

I didn't do shit.
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PostMon Jul 02, 2012 12:52 am » by 2020


Domdabears wrote:
2020 wrote:Where is my original reply post?

Dont worry dom i always take screenshots hahahahaha, IDIOT.

What the fuck are you talking about?

Your ass is paranoid or just stupid.

I didn't do shit.


What gives you and t the right to change or edit posts?
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