insurance companies?

Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:29 am » by **Iwanci**

Insurance is nothing more than a gamble. It’s like going to the casino and betting on an outcome. The odds are weighed up, and a premium is paid. WE all take a gamble on our daily livelihoods yeah? We get up in the morning and if nothing happens during our day we go to bed at night ready for the next morning, but what if something happens to your plans? ‘if’ something throws them out of whack eg a fire, an accident, death, etc??

So, insurance has a purpose, it is a twin edged sword, if you are lucky enough to have it and you need to use it, its a great and sad day, because A. You will recover some money to help out financially, but B. You have just had a bad experience in life (fire, accident etc).

What if you have NO insurance? Well, you may be lucky enough to never have needed it in the first place GREAT. But what if?? Insurance covers the ‘what if’s’. In the main there is no obligation to have insurance UNLESS the financial ramifications of not having it, should you have an event, spill over on to third parties, if you have no money the innocent third party will get zero financial assistance, and therefore it is a requirement in some cases that insurance is mandatory eg. Compulsory vehicle insurance etc (you want to drive, you must have insurance).

Interesting that some have described the 911 insurance side... I have seen some video’s from people who were left behind after their partners died in the towers and had ZERO insurance, the partner left behind has a hell of a time trying to get financially re-established.

Not saying Insurance companies are without flaws or not open to corruption, they are, just like any other businesses, they, like all other services are a necessary evil that we cannot do without, imo.

While we are on the topic, anyone own any shares?, managed investments? Superannuation of pension fund membership with an investment component? Take a look at where YOUR dollars are being invested, and I will bet that financial services companies like banks, insurance companies are part of your portfolios. Why do they seek to make more profits? FOR YOU, the shareholders, you would be very upset if they didn’t give you better returns on your investments...

Oh, and if you think the government could pay for all the medical bills or recovery costs associated with any accident, death, fire etc... of course they could but then something unwanted would happen, the governments would either have less money to spend on infrastructure like schools, road etc, or they would simply TAX you and me more for the money, either way YOU and I will always pay.. at least the insurance option gives you a choice...

Huge topic, thanks for raising it.... :flop:

Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:38 am » by **Mydogma**

iwanci wrote:Insurance is nothing more than a gamble. It’s like going to the casino and betting on an outcome. The odds are weighed up, and a premium is paid. WE all take a gamble on our daily livelihoods yeah? We get up in the morning and if nothing happens during our day we go to bed at night ready for the next morning, but what if something happens to your plans? ‘if’ something throws them out of whack eg a fire, an accident, death, etc??

So, insurance has a purpose, it is a twin edged sword, if you are lucky enough to have it and you need to use it, its a great and sad day, because A. You will recover some money to help out financially, but B. You have just had a bad experience in life (fire, accident etc).

What if you have NO insurance? Well, you may be lucky enough to never have needed it in the first place GREAT. But what if?? Insurance covers the ‘what if’s’. In the main there is no obligation to have insurance UNLESS the financial ramifications of not having it, should you have an event, spill over on to third parties, if you have no money the innocent third party will get zero financial assistance, and therefore it is a requirement in some cases that insurance is mandatory eg. Compulsory vehicle insurance etc (you want to drive, you must have insurance).

Interesting that some have described the 911 insurance side... I have seen some video’s from people who were left behind after their partners died in the towers and had ZERO insurance, the partner left behind has a hell of a time trying to get financially re-established.

Not saying Insurance companies are without flaws or not open to corruption, they are, just like any other businesses, they, like all other services are a necessary evil that we cannot do without, imo.

While we are on the topic, anyone own any shares?, managed investments? Superannuation of pension fund membership with an investment component? Take a look at where YOUR dollars are being invested, and I will bet that financial services companies like banks, insurance companies are part of your portfolios. Why do they seek to make more profits? FOR YOU, the shareholders, you would be very upset if they didn’t give you better returns on your investments...

Oh, and if you think the government could pay for all the medical bills or recovery costs associated with any accident, death, fire etc... of course they could but then something unwanted would happen, the governments would either have less money to spend on infrastructure like schools, road etc, or they would simply TAX you and me more for the money, either way YOU and I will always pay.. at least the insurance option gives you a choice...

Huge topic, thanks for raising it....

No doubt you have to pay, but to whom? Why not take out the middleman(profiteer) out of the equation, take the profits out of insurance companies and banking and I bet it would be in none of our portfOlios..give the people beTter service with the money you would have paid the shareholders...

Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:46 am » by **Iwanci**

Cannot be done mate, because if there were no profits in it, no one would set up the company to do it, further, if the government owned it they would f*&k it up because government bureaucracies are inefficient to say the least. The insurance YOU and I would pay would be MUCH more expensive and we would pay in higher taxes to compensate for the loss revenues. The system is NOT perfect, but it does what it was set up to do, provide cover for the people who pay their premiums should they need it. It is a business like any other.

Is there corruption, profiteering? Sure is, just as in any business. Look at ANY industry and you will see that if you cut out the ‘middleman’ things would be different. Eg, food, why do companies make profits, the same argument applies, to make money, if they didn’t make profits would food be cheaper or more expensive do you think? I would say dearer because it would be harder to get, unless you went and farmed your own. Same as motor vehicles manufacturing etc... All roads of business lead to one place... profits. This ensures that there is enough competition in the market place to drive efficiencies and bring prices down.

Not perfect, could always be improved.

Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:02 am » by **Mydogma**

iwanci wrote:Cannot be done mate, because if there were no profits in it, no one would set up the company to do it, further, if the government owned it they would f*&k it up because government bureaucracies are inefficient to say the least. The insurance YOU and I would pay would be MUCH more expensive and we would pay in higher taxes to compensate for the loss revenues. The system is NOT perfect, but it does what it was set up to do, provide cover for the people who pay their premiums should they need it. It is a business like any other.

Is there corruption, profiteering? Sure is, just as in any business. Look at ANY industry and you will see that if you cut out the ‘middleman’ things would be different. Eg, food, why do companies make profits, the same argument applies, to make money, if they didn’t make profits would food be cheaper or more expensive do you think? I would say dearer because it would be harder to get, unless you went and farmed your own. Same as motor vehicles manufacturing etc... All roads of business lead to one place... profits. This ensures that there is enough competition in the market place to drive efficiencies and bring prices down.

Not perfect, could always be improved.

You bring up some good points, but there have been plenty of sucessful gov insurance plans...and competition doesn't always mean a better product...or cheaper price when its all fixed at the top of the foodchain...I think there are only 2-3 major insurance underwriters that all the brokers go to...insurance and bankers profit billions...I think its a falacy that gov can't run those two industries..there is no uniquness in their product..they control the gigg and profit enormously...all by playing their numbers game...the same numbers game that the gov could do...as far as farming and what I eat, I can buy my tomatoes in an industrial farmed can or I can go to the farmers market...I pay more there but it tastes better...I can buy any car or bycile or walk or bus it...If I am mandated by the gov to do something..it should be with profit removed...

Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:24 am » by **Iwanci**

Mydogma, there are many insurance underwriters mate, and many ‘middlemen’, and many not so middle men’ and many mouths to feed. The government insurance schemes are not free, we pay for them through our taxes.. nothing in this world is free, not even the bare essentials like food and water, oh yes, and soon we will be paying for clean air to breathe, trust me they will work out a way to make us pay.

The system isn’t perfect no denying that one, but it is like every other business... all driven by greed. If there was a dollar to be made out of collecting peoples rubbish there would be people lining up to do it,, hang on, there are.... these peeps don’t do anything for free, and nor should they, ever.

AL products in every market that we have, has all developed due to one thing, WANT. We create wants and then fill the market with solutions... nothing new in that, and insurance and banking is NO different, btw, you don’t need to take out a mortgage or insurance policy, just live like a hermit... but there too you need some form of external influence and thereto you wil pay through land taxes etc.. either way, we are all fucked! So enjoy it...

Nope, if you hit someone inyour car and through no fault of their own they are left suffering financially and you have no money to pay or compensate them for YOUR mistake, who pays the innocent victim? The gov? Sure but who pays really? Al of us in the end, cosd the gov is us and their money is ours...

Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:49 pm » by **Mrmcnuggets**

mydogma wrote:
mrmcnuggets wrote:Coming from someone that went through a house fire, insurance companies certainly have their practical limits.

Yep I don't have a problem with the concept, I hve a problem with the fact that a mandated product is on the stock market and has to first and formost protect its shareholders and their profits, saskatewan has had gov auto insurance for years..(And I think they still do). Anything that is mandated should be provided for by gov...if all hell broke loose those insurance companies can say..whoops bankrupt and gov(taxpayer) is on tHe hook anyway..ontario has tried for years but the insurance lobbiests always win...insurance should be only about the people not the profit...

Oh I totally agree there man. Let alone loop holes like if you have million dollar house insurance up here you are still not protected against tornadoes, hurricanes, or floods because our region is not a place that is zoned for these activities to be considered recent enough to not be a whether phenomenon. Lame as fuck.

Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:09 pm » by **Iwanci**

Agreed, the part regarding 'exclusions' in insurance contracts suck, especially if people that buy the insurance are not told or don't bother to read the fine print...

And, agreed that 'some' of the middlemen are lousy rotten theives...

But hey, like I said, it isnt perfect... but it works albeit some times..

The trick is to KNOW what you are paying for, and then make a decision to either shop it around or self insure (don't buy it)...

Just ask me...

Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:20 pm » by **Mydogma**

Mcnug wrote:Oh I totally agree there man. Let alone loop holes like if you have million dollar house insurance up here you are still not protected against tornadoes, hurricanes, or floods because our region is not a place that is zoned for these activities to be considered recent enough to not be a whether phenomenon. Lame as fuck.

That's the truth of it...they just continue to remove items that are insurable that don't pay out(just like gambling) then the gov(taxpayer) has to dish in to pay it anyway? Its rigged to win...in canada companies are starting not to ensure flooded basements- so now people don't want to finish their basements, can't get insurance without a relatively new roof, can't get insuarance if you have a woodstove(which many in my neck of the woods prefer as heating$$) insurance companies should be shut down if the gov has to kick in for everything they don't cover...and they can just pick and choose what they want to cover next year! And still raise the rates? Go figure...its a racket...I believe we would all be beTter served if those bilions in sharholder profits went back to the people...if I am mandated to carry auto inurance to drive on the road..gov should provide it(at my cost) with my license plate sticker... Say $300 bucks X a hundred million drivers...then have a judicial system that backs reality instead of multi cazillion payouts to a few who can afford the right lawyer...(Another scam) becuze if ur injured and can't go to work you get to claim loss wages..so if I'm at poverty line I get a few bucks but if I'm a six figure dude I cash in...both of us paying the same premium...

Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:59 pm » by **Iwanci**

Mydogman, it’s like ANY other business mate, we don’t like some of it, however, imagine a world without any banking or insurance at all... the government would not be able to afford to pay for it, or they would simply make you pay some ridiculous amount of tax to cover it...

Insurance companies are there to make ‘profits’, no different to any other company. I have noticed that my food shopping expenses have increased substantially over the past 5 years, my food consumption has decreased, prices have been increasing some due to taxes, inflation etc, others simply due to profiteering. Where I live 380 people lost their jobs 2 days ago, the Toyota plant shut down some of its manufacturing because it was harder to make profits, they still make profits but not enough so they shut down, Gen Motors is looking like they will do similar, and we expect around 7000 people will lose their work in the banking sector. ‘Profits’ was the reason in every case.

Now, if companies continue to invest in business that is unprofitable what do you think will eventually happen? They will look to cut expenses (usually staff) and then eventually may close down altogether. What does this do for the economy and you and I? Let’s assume that insurance is taken over by the government in such a case, (usually) the products become dearer due to government inefficiencies and product development stifles due to a lack of competition, simply put, if there is NO incentive to increase market share because you have the entire market guaranteed, then why would the insurer (gov) want to develop better products or indeed cut prices? There is no competition, no profit and hence no incentive to do so. You and I would get inferior products at higher prices, let alone service should you need to make a claim.

Its like anything, if you went to a car manufacturer and wanted to buy a car but you didn’t like the colours on offer (say you wanted fluorescent green), would they make one just for you? YES probably, but YOU would pay more for it, so reality is that they would NOT offer ALL colours at the same price, because it is unprofitable to do so. Insurance companies will NOT offer insurance cover on unprofitable business for the same reason. If you run a business and I came to you and asked you for something that would cost you too much to provide you wouldn’t do it at a loss, right?

Where I agree whole heartedly is that THEY must NOT mislead you and be perfectly clear in what they tell you BEFORE you decide to buy the cover. Some things in life just cannot be insured by paying a premium because the likelihood of a claim is too high, in other words it is very likely that a claim will eventuate that will wipe away ALL premium revenue. Insurance companies are not charities, they are a business and need to be seen as such, happy you pay, not happy you simply walk away.

Oh and there is ONE other small detail, the 'fat cats' live in politics just as much as in any other religion or business, corruption reigns supreme in governments, so don't place too much faith in a government to give you and I a fairer system, they are simply incapable and I have seen much good intentioned political leader turn to the 'dark side' once elected, quite simply, the rot is everywhere.
:cheers:

Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:12 am » by **Mydogma**

iwanci wrote:Mydogman, it’s like ANY other business mate, we don’t like some of it, however, imagine a world without any banking or insurance at all... the government would not be able to afford to pay for it, or they would simply make you pay some ridiculous amount of tax to cover it...

Insurance companies are there to make ‘profits’, no different to any other company. I have noticed that my food shopping expenses have increased substantially over the past 5 years, my food consumption has decreased, prices have been increasing some due to taxes, inflation etc, others simply due to profiteering. Where I live 380 people lost their jobs 2 days ago, the Toyota plant shut down some of its manufacturing because it was harder to make profits, they still make profits but not enough so they shut down, Gen Motors is looking like they will do similar, and we expect around 7000 people will lose their work in the banking sector. ‘Profits’ was the reason in every case.

Now, if companies continue to invest in business that is unprofitable what do you think will eventually happen? They will look to cut expenses (usually staff) and then eventually may close down altogether. What does this do for the economy and you and I? Let’s assume that insurance is taken over by the government in such a case, (usually) the products become dearer due to government inefficiencies and product development stifles due to a lack of competition, simply put, if there is NO incentive to increase market share because you have the entire market guaranteed, then why would the insurer (gov) want to develop better products or indeed cut prices? There is no competition, no profit and hence no incentive to do so. You and I would get inferior products at higher prices, let alone service should you need to make a claim.

Its like anything, if you went to a car manufacturer and wanted to buy a car but you didn’t like the colours on offer (say you wanted fluorescent green), would they make one just for you? YES probably, but YOU would pay more for it, so reality is that they would NOT offer ALL colours at the same price, because it is unprofitable to do so. Insurance companies will NOT offer insurance cover on unprofitable business for the same reason. If you run a business and I came to you and asked you for something that would cost you too much to provide you wouldn’t do it at a loss, right?

Where I agree whole heartedly is that THEY must NOT mislead you and be perfectly clear in what they tell you BEFORE you decide to buy the cover. Some things in life just cannot be insured by paying a premium because the likelihood of a claim is too high, in other words it is very likely that a claim will eventuate that will wipe away ALL premium revenue. Insurance companies are not charities, they are a business and need to be seen as such, happy you pay, not happy you simply walk away.

Oh and there is ONE other small detail, the 'fat cats' live in politics just as much as in any other religion or business, corruption reigns supreme in governments, so don't place too much faith in a government to give you and I a fairer system, they are simply incapable and I have seen much good intentioned political leader turn to the 'dark side' once elected, quite simply, the rot is everywhere.

Well that was a mouthfull...I get your point to some degree if I chose to exist in the nestegg macro dreamworld...and no means wish to sound condisending...but gov can operate gov run bus and be a hundred perecent sustainable...in ontario I have to buy my rum at the gov run LCBO they employ thousands of secure jobs across ontario...and they are good mid income jobs...the LCBO is responsible not to sell to minors, and has been highly profitable for the province, the last premier tried to privatise it (probably to sell to some of his buddies) but luckily it fell thru becuz the people of ontario basically like what we have(in that reguards) next is back to insurance http://www.sgi.sk.ca/ they are doing a fine job...and tHey have a careers section you can click on..rain or shine good times and bad the gov insurance is there for u...no need for middlemen like that...its about governments being creative by searching out to see what's worKIng in the next community or state or country..we can certianly do better at the macro level...but its not the macro level that matters becuz the big bank in the sky doesn't have a balance sheet...the world is countless generations indebt for a discounted corrupt cabel of a few...if you actually think we(the world) are going to climb out of this I think you still have your blinders on...the system is going to fail and all the paper money, all the paper bonds all the paper insurances aren't going to be there for you...those jobs that are lost...probably won't come back, the entire economic spoof is falling apart...the quicker we realize in masses...the easier the global transition will be..but there will be a global transformation...after a bunch of bankers get their day in court...there will be new world order...just depend if its tHe same gangsters that have embeded themselves in our laws...or us..pushing for a more transparent governement...to accept the corruption as status quoe is not how we transform out of this mess...we open our eyes and see the extreme wealth as our masters...and we demand to be free