Is FUSIAM the Answer or Will MAIBUS Rule the World?

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PostTue Jul 07, 2009 1:29 am » by Flecktarn


LowSix wrote:Theres a reason that Advertising agencies arent run by Engineers.
And theres a reason that graphic designers dont build spaceships.

If you want to ignore my "worldly perspective" on words and how to use them to motivate people, thats no sweat of my nose, bro..its only how i make a living..
I get paid for the advice i just gave you for a reason...

Theres also a reason I dont publish ads for the Latino Market in Chinese..

Make of that what you will.

Im telling you the truth,
and Im saying it more nicely than most people will.
The feedback ive given has been repeated to you many times..
again, it aint about MY perspective..and its not even about your message..
I have no opinion whatsoever about your message...
It's always been about your delivery.

So by all means if you want to speak to the world..dont get mad if you refuse to speak their language and they look at you like youre nuts.

You have an astoundingly weak grasp of my perspectives on anything,
if youre taking all of this personally..I told you in the beginning to make a separate thread, so people wouldnt be so harsh on you, (ie..i came to your defence so you wouldnt get smashed for spamming threads with your ideas when they werent thread related)
Im not attacking you, im giving you SOLID, PRACTICAL ADVICE.. grounded in twenty years of real world experience, in messages and audiences..

If i brought you my plans for a second story deck, and you said "Those Broomsticks youre using for support beams arent going to bear that Load"..and i looked at you and told you that you just didnt have the right perspective, and that my INTENT was to use broomsticks anyways..i would expect you to laugh me out of your office...

You have repeatedly asked people for their feedback on your ideas, received similar feedback, and similarly refused to give that feedback any credence..

I would get fired if i did a focus group, then spent a million dollars of agency money on a concept that i got universally negative feedback on..and i would be silly to invite them for their opinions, then when they give them... say ..thanks, but i dont believe you..lol

The market tells YOU what it wants and how it wants it..not the other way around.
Youre intent is irrelvant, if the visual and verbal message directly contradict it..

Not sure how you arent getting that...
But you charge ahead, ignore all us ignorants and do your own thing..
we'll be cheering you on either way.

i also gave feedback on his plans ,told him its been done before and it didnt work also told him what companys used it .and got the spoilt kid treatment ,were not all born yesterday types on this web site ,we have been out in the world and had a good look around and like six told you its your spaming and constant pitching ,in my world if you pitch a plan and you get told alot it sucks and wont work ,take it as that, and once religion gets mentioned that puts business off and alerts the crackpot police ,like i said try dragons den then argue the toss with them when they dont agree with you,you cant change the worlds thinking ,everyone is different
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PostTue Jul 07, 2009 2:10 am » by Cornbread714


999plan wrote:Yeah, I checked out the site. Rather humorous, but then it's rather sarcastic of you to compare what I'm attempting to do (i.e. promote a world-wide positive perceptional change) to a bunch of yoyo's who don't give a shit about anything!!!

:cheers:


You're right in the fact that you are apparently serious (though sometimes, I shit you not, I wonder) and that they are merely poking fun at belief systems.
Therein lies my subtle hint.
If your material keeps reminding me of a joke religion (and honestly, it does), to the point of where I wonder if you even take it seriously, then maybe the drawing board is the place you want to be.
Since you are asking for input, and you seem to be promulgating something, I'm being very direct. It kind of reminds me of some early 20th century semi-mystical mail-order scam or something...
Like the Rosicrucian ads they used to have in the back pages of comic books.
Where's the beer and when do I get paid?
- Jimmy Carl Black (the Indian of the group)

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PostTue Jul 07, 2009 5:19 am » by 999plan


You know what, I never said that any of you aren't correct about how the world is, how the business world operates, what has been tried before or hasn't (Fleck), etc. I even told you that everything I was sharing WASN'T really a marketing approach or a business model at all for exactly the reasons you stated. In fact, my original goal here on DTV was to simply DISCLOSE what I know I was called to do. I certainly wasn't trolling for anyone's approval or rebuke, Pro or Con arguments, or anything else for that matter. But just the same, you all felt it was your necessary duty to share your "worldly wisdom" of which I'm telling you now is only one side of the same perspective.

"Realorfake" offered a supporting position in this thread. Does that mean his position is somehow less valid than any of yours? Absolutely not! So my friends I posit that it is your individual preconceptions, pre-judgements, and misunderstandings of what I am presenting along with your vociferous responses which has driven your overwhelming reactionary stances.

In the past, I have responded cordially to you all. Likewise, I have offered any insights I felt were relevant on a variety of other topics.

Call me whacko, call me crazy, call me whatever you want. The truth is that all this is grounded in what I believe based in large part on my spiritual Faith. No mere mortal can move a person of Faith (theist) away from their position just like no one can move one who has no Faith (atheist) away from their position.

Judge me as you will, but know that I am challenging everyone to see beyond provable scientific knowledge or preconceived biases and antiquated conventions. All it takes is for you to open your eyes long enough to experience the real Truth that will otherwise continue to elude you!

:cheers:

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PostTue Jul 07, 2009 6:02 am » by Lowsix


999plan wrote: I certainly wasn't trolling for anyone's approval or rebuke, Pro or Con arguments, or anything else for that matter. But just the same, you all felt it was your necessary duty to share your "worldly wisdom" of which I'm telling you now is only one side of the same perspective.

So my friends I posit that it is your individual preconceptions, pre-judgements, and misunderstandings of what I am presenting along with your vociferous responses which has driven your overwhelming reactionary stances.


Im guessing your forgot that you said THIS:

999plan wrote:I look forward to everyone’s constructive rebuttals regarding any and all of the knowledge I’ve FREELY disclosed here above.


Everyone gave you EXACTLY what you requested of them..
Stop being such a baby. Now I need to be clear here Bruce..and ill repeat this, since you ignored it the last time i mentioned it. MY critique has got jack shit to do with your ideology, theology, faith, or committment. Its about your approach, which believe it or not, is FATALLY flawed. Ignore all that "worldly wisdon" (ie experience) at YOUR peril..I see some serious frustration in your future.

When i suggested that you lay out your plan for discussion, i would NOT have done so, if i had realized how personally you were going to take all of these rational, realistic and valid critiques. You are too emotionally invested..tying your Epiphany (and its importance) to the success or failure or adoption of your ideas.. Thats a SUPER fatal mistake..as regarding Philosophies. You are PERCEIVING that our critiques are homehow having anything to do whatsoever with your "new realizations"..and therefore critique of the plan..or philosophy is an attack on your OR your faith. You need to extract the two..or youre setting yourself up for some serious disappointments..

I had a completely open mind to your concept in the beginning, but your replies to your request for constructive rebuttals prove to me two things: You arent ready to drop the "Next Big Idea" on the world becuase you dont care a WHIT about the communication process when trying to sell an idea.. Youre one of the My Way or the Highway guys, ive seen a lot of them..and they tie their egos to their plans and 100% of the time neglect reason and seasoned advice, becuase it feels like an attack on the personality instead of the plan. They usually fail because they dont repsect their Audience..they feel the need to "re-educate them'...instead of serving their needs or accounting their natural biases..(again im not even talking about your ideas..im talking about your approach, presentation, symboism, and language) Im not a bullshitter, and its a shame youre insisting that, becuase youre REALLY missing a larger point...

And what you called "vociferous responses which has driven your overwhelming reactionary stances" is actually called "spending some personal time out on a fruitless venture to participate and be constructive without actually insulting you", since actually..most of it sounds like nonsense..but i digress..

999plan wrote:So my friends I posit that it is your individual preconceptions, pre-judgements, and misunderstandings of what I am presenting along with your vociferous responses which has driven your overwhelming reactionary stances.


You are painting yourself int a corner from which you cannot retreat, if you take the well meaning advice and feedback as a personal attack, placing everyone squarely into the enemy camp without taking half a minute to recognize that..>THEY ARE PARTICIPATING WITH YOU...so imagine the irony. You are alieneating your own audience. This is a common crime committed by the 'My way or the Highway Guys'...

Good Luck man, you have me read entirely wrong...and in the process have locked YOURSELF away from some VERY sound advice. You have begun to take it all personally, instead of seeing it for what it is.. And i dont have the power to enlighten on that fact, becuase as you said..You mind is all made up...and we just arent enlightened enough to see that truth which eludes us..

Good luck with whatever it is you are actually trying to do...Becuase if your Plan is not actually a plan, 'its a disclosure' and your business model is not actually a busniness model, i will lack the language with which to communiate with you...

You dont need a forum for discussion, you want a one-way Press Release.
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PostTue Jul 07, 2009 6:51 am » by 999plan


flecktarn wrote:i also gave feedback on his plans ,told him its been done before and it didnt work also told him what companys used it .and got the spoilt kid treatment ,were not all born yesterday types on this web site ,we have been out in the world and had a good look around and like six told you its your spaming and constant pitching ,in my world if you pitch a plan and you get told alot it sucks and wont work ,take it as that, and once religion gets mentioned that puts business off and alerts the crackpot police ,like i said try dragons den then argue the toss with them when they dont agree with you,you cant change the worlds thinking ,everyone is different


Hi Fleck,

I thought you deserved a response even though it's related to "THE 999 PLAN" thread, but I'll address it here anyway since you all are so focused on it ... pleasantly so. Believe it or not, I've been told more times than not by everyday type of people that they actually like my concept and that maybe under the right integration conditions it might work effectively. The other day, I talked to a close advisor to the Mayor of LA. He actually was quite impressed with what I was sharing. Whether or not anything will come from that meeting, we'll just have to wait and see. Actually, the percentage is closer to 2 to 1.

The problem is as Six rightfully points out that people are reluctant because it's not how the "world" operates, in particular the business world, or how our current labor laws are written. These are the primary rebuttals I hear from business types. It has nothing to do with the concept itself or even my presentation or marketing of it. I only get those type of remarks from the few of you here on DTV.

In addition, contrary to what you said; it's never been tried before whether that be in the UK or USA or anywhere else in the world. If it had, there would be a study for it or it would be patented. Neither of these exist. I checked your sources and none of them have tried the exact specifics of my plan. However, lots of companies have tried variations of another alternative called the 9/80. At present, several companies are experimenting with 4/10's which might prove successful, but it certainly doesn't have my approach which will automatically increase the GDP by 4% when a 9-hr day is employed. However, if you have supporting info to the contrary than feel free to produce it. I challenge you. I'm not trying to prove that the concept works. I know it will. I'm just looking for businesses bold enough to consider and try it. Otherwise, do us all a favor and please keep your subjective opinions to yourself. I've heard you and all this before and I neither want or need another speculative opinion. I get enough of that from similar nay-sayers who continue to use antiquated conventions and wonder why they can't dig themselves out from the recession. Proof me wrong; try it out as your own pilot program completely FREE exactly as I have shown. After 3 months, share the results. If it hasn't worked, I'll leave DTV and you'll personally never have to chat with me again.

Here me clearly, I'm promoting this because I see it as the "right" pathway to try and help us all out of the economic recession. Until someone can factually prove me wrong which requires actual data from companies who have attempted it, then my theories and pro and con points on how it could potentially work is just as valid as your subjective opinion that it will not!

I am 43; the ripe age to lead a "push" of this magnitude. My country can certainly use it ... God knows, the President is hardly making any headway, and I think the world is ready for something completely revolutionary and "outside-the-box".

But by all means, feel free to apply your "outside-the-box" concepts while sticking with your comfortable and antiquated conventions ... you know all those that got us in this huge economic mess in the first place.

No one has any right to bitch at me that it won't work because that's just how the world operates ... look around; the world's not operating all too well the last time I checked!

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PostTue Jul 07, 2009 7:04 am » by Lowsix


999plan wrote:I look forward to everyone’s constructive rebuttals regarding any and all of the knowledge I’ve FREELY disclosed here above.


999plan wrote:do us all a favor and please keep your subjective opinions to yourself. I've heard you and all this before and I neither want or need another speculative opinion.
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PostTue Jul 07, 2009 7:31 am » by 999plan


LowSix wrote:
999plan wrote:I look forward to everyone’s constructive rebuttals regarding any and all of the knowledge I’ve FREELY disclosed here above.


999plan wrote:do us all a favor and please keep your subjective opinions to yourself. I've heard you and all this before and I neither want or need another speculative opinion.


Big difference between constructive rebuttals and subjective opinions ... I hardly regard personal attacks (and you're damn right; all this is very personal) as to my character as constructive. Tell me the last time you vested a year on something either professional or other and it didn't become personal ...

Six, you realize you have yet to present me with an opinion or counter-argument as to the mathematics, theory, or logic of my PLAN itself ... the most I've gotten from the lot of you is that it seems like junk science or something out of a comic book advertisement ... boy, that's something I can really sink my teeth into ....

Everything seems to get washed out by your subjective banter about either my presentation skills or lack of presenting an ideal marketing strategy from your experienced position (and I do respect that; I guess you're just not the right person to help me out). What really bugs me is that it seems you use the same or similar tactics with everyone who presents you with a counter-position ... boring!

I made it clear that I was trying to present a model that was highly atypical; not a "worldly" business model. I made it clear that in order to do it justice, it needed to be a strategy that incorporated a definite spiritual perspective. And that's exactly where I lost the focus of all of you. But then your actually right on this point and I'll back off a little, because I forgot who my audience was here. How could I expect to have self-proclaiming atheistic zealots help me develop a successful spiritual marketing strategy or not even that; maybe just a more clever disclosure technique that might help get this idea kicked off? :bang; :bang; :bang;

Obviously, it's not going to happen; not unless the man upstairs steps in to the mix ... sorry again, I forget that there is no man upstairs in your world!


Edit: Sorry Corn, I said you when I meant Six ... I changed it!
Last edited by 999plan on Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostTue Jul 07, 2009 7:50 am » by 999plan


What happened to Hesop's post? Here was my response to him:

Sorry, what does "E-me" mean ...

I would take a guess, but then HESOP, you actually gave me some constructive, albeit somewhat subjective, input but your tone was certainly not confrontational. I respond in kind. If someone gives me shit; I'll give 'em shit back. If they give me respect as Six and you and the others initially have, I will of course respond with respect. What I won't stand for are attacks purely rooted in nothing more than subjective flatulence.

So I hope what I'm thinking is not what you meant, but rather "email me" or something like that ....

:cheers:

Makes me wonder if HESOP and Six are the same person .... hmmm!

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PostTue Jul 07, 2009 8:30 am » by Ph0enix


My advice: Organize your plan into a simple to follow multi pager with lots of pics and vids.
structure it like 6sigma and hold training sessions wether on or offline in order to teach it.
give people charts of how much money and or time it will save their company and all other ways it will improve their performance.
stop tryin to sell the wonder of its works but instead the actual works themselves and their payoffs.
every exec out there is trying to both outsmart the next exec and be his company's hero. you have to convince HIM. - you haven't sectioned off your audience very well.
give people charts and other form of analysis and statistics; thats what they use to argue with their boards over why they should consider or switch to this plan.
stop making it sound like a religion moreso than a way of employee and management infrastrucure.
stop looking at your idea as a philosophy. even if it is. look at it as a production modle. or at least sell it as such.
your grass roots movement is a good idea. start by attending "first friday's" in the various cities that have them. open a yahoo, a ning, a google, and a myspace group that introduces small bussinesses and execs to your modle. make some movies on youtube and anywhere else popular and free leading them back to you and you site and your plan. bring them TO YOU. then just run around having mini lectures, web lectures, and in person meetings to certain companies and audiences and rake in the dough :)

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PostTue Jul 07, 2009 8:38 am » by Lowsix


999plan wrote:Obviously, it's not going to happen; not unless the man upstairs steps in to the mix ... sorry again, I forget that there is no man upstairs in your world!


hahahaha ok man...

Have you even READ any of my posts?
Like even ONE of them on religion and Christianity?
You really are showing an extreme amount of ignorance if you can say that I think there is no man upstairs witha straight face..

Tell ya what honcho..you read through some of my posts and get back to me..till then youre swingin at the phantom menace. You can search Christianity..thats a great place to start. Matter of fact..sir..Im almost the ONLY person in this forum willing to put forward a real fight for it..withtout bragging about singin in the choir or throwing Bible verses and talkin about our lil lord baby jesus..

You dont have a clue what youre talking about...or who youre talking to...
See? Youre all backed up into a corner and you cant even tell an enemy from a friend..

And I spared criticism inthe beginning on the Concept behind the idea, becuase..Um...mostly becuase i don't care that much, and besides... my opinion on that is subjective and irrelevant...so what i DID do, was restrict the argument to the practical mechanics..the usefull stuff..the stuff that an adult concerned about getting his message across..would pay attention to.. I mistook you for someone that could recognize the importance of that...I left the critique of the plan itself to others. They covered it nicely...

And i HIGHLY recommend actually reading the posts that people submit in your threads..and keeping straight who writes what before you make a fool out of yourself..

The Following, that you attribute to me, did not COME from me..ok sunshine? Get it straight if youre gonna start throwing rocks..or at least improve your aim dramatically..I didnt say OR imply ANY of the following..

Six, you realize you have yet to present me with an opinion or counter-argument as to the mathematics, theory, or logic of my PLAN itself ... the most I've gotten from the lot of you is that it seems like junk science or something out of a comic book advertisement ... boy, that's something I can really sink my teeth into ....


I havent dealt with your plan in any form or fashion, because your approach is so screwed, your plan doesnt matter at this point..

Its totally clear that you have it all figured out though, i see that now

Its right there in the Name of your plan, your made-up words, the silly anagrams, the backwards symbolism..I mean if you want to turn people off, and have them think youre coming from some pseudo mystical-religio, new age, occultish base of operations..then you sir are on the right track...so if thats your goal, ive misunderstood..Youre gonna do fantastic...

Youre missing that no one is even TOUCHING the actual spiritual origination aspect of it or attacking that, what we are saying is that YOUR SHIT LOOKS OCCULTIC, the words, the symbols, the language, the logo....holy shit dude..pay attention!!!!!!!!!

But that is not going to stop you from that overarching, broadbrushing "You people are all Atheistic Haters" garbage..youve done it every time someone mounts any sort of objection...THAT sir, is whats geting boring, because youre making it clear that youre not paying attention, and being the reactionary one..

but HEY what do I know..i just craft Brands for a living and havent got a CLUE how people think, or how to approach them, or how to communicate with them, or how to reach them with the symbols inherent in their branding, or the language they use or ANYTHING..im just a corn shuckin hillbilly, and you are the Wordsmith to the Gods..

That crap that it was a personal attack was some Emo shit brother, and it wont fly here..
I told you about seven times that it wasnt about you, the ideology, the philosophy, your faith or any of that shit (i wasnt attacking you in any form, but you are suffering some sort of manic grand delusion that You = The Plan)..it was about the APPROACH..so if you need to act like athree year old and play the "Opposite Game", you go right ahead...im done with this stupid shit because you dont have the requisite maturity to recognize good, well intentioned advice if it pulled you out of a river and gave you CPR..which is what your plan is gonna need if you approach business with some of what youve written and the emotional tone youve carried with you. You are going to scare executives with your Branding and your emotional reactions to legitimate critique..


I hardly regard personal attacks (and you're damn right; all this is very personal) as to my character as constructive. Tell me the last time you vested a year on something either professional or other and it didn't become personal ...


Very recently as a matter of fact...and in my line of business it happens EVERY SINGLE DAY..and i dont get to throw a tantrum, if a client changes their mind at the last minute, or decides after a year of development that they want to take a campaign in a new direction..

If the Audience doesnt respond to a campaign I've worked on for a year, I cant cry and scream about personal attacks...I would get laughed out of the industry. I have to evaluate MY approach..If the brand i craft doesnt sell product, i dont have the luxury of blaming the customer.. I have to TAKE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and man up, and rework the approach. This is a skill you VERY obviously lack..and youre going to suffer for it.. You already are..youre already emotionally invested and hurt, and defensive, and no one has atacked your character dude, youre starting to sound unbalanced and paranoid..
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