Is FUSIAM the Answer or Will MAIBUS Rule the World?

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PostTue Jul 07, 2009 9:22 am » by 999plan


ph0enix wrote:My advice: Organize your plan into a simple to follow multi pager with lots of pics and vids.
structure it like 6sigma and hold training sessions wether on or offline in order to teach it.
give people charts of how much money and or time it will save their company and all other ways it will improve their performance.
stop tryin to sell the wonder of its works but instead the actual works themselves and their payoffs.
every exec out there is trying to both outsmart the next exec and be his company's hero. you have to convince HIM. - you haven't sectioned off your audience very well.
give people charts and other form of analysis and statistics; thats what they use to argue with their boards over why they should consider or switch to this plan.
stop making it sound like a religion moreso than a way of employee and management infrastrucure.
stop looking at your idea as a philosophy. even if it is. look at it as a production modle. or at least sell it as such.
your grass roots movement is a good idea. start by attending "first friday's" in the various cities that have them. open a yahoo, a ning, a google, and a myspace group that introduces small bussinesses and execs to your modle. bring them TO YOU. then just run around having mini lectures, web lectures, and in person meetings to certain companies and rake in the dough :)


Now, that's the more objective tone and kind of detailed input I was hoping for. Thanks Ph0enix! Some of the more detailed specifics you mentioned I have actually prepared as part of a training package but not shared here. The rest I will strongly consider because it does make sense.

Ph0enix, based on your posts, you sound spiritually grounded as well as scientifically gifted. Maybe I feel I have no one else here who can adequately address this point, but let's just suppose deep down you felt like the Holy Spirit was prompting you to follow a specific path for something? Wouldn't you think it's important to honestly present all aspects of that path regardless, as a supporting argument even though that position is largely Faith-based? My thoughts were that a consideration of the Holy Spirit as a source for this knowledge is extremely vital to its success. Maybe I'm wrong about that. I don't know. I'm just having a very difficult time separating that religious/spiritual aspect from the more "business friendly" approach which otherwise will probably sell the concept.

In the interest of resolution to some hard-felt feelings, I'm going to lighten up quite a bit and say that I don't think Six is incorrect as far as seeing things from the "real world" perspective. On the contrary, I'm sure he's absolutely correct. I realize most of this is just as much my subjective perception, and to that point, it may be the primary issue here; and I'm sure that's probably all he's been trying to impress upon me based on his experience.

I'll give all this some more consideration, and maybe I'll wake up tomorrow with a whole new perspective. Some direct words were exchanged, but I still think I can steer my way clear of that to hopefully arrive at something more viable.

It really is interesting that this thread devolved as it did. Goes to show, we're all just as human as the next Tom, Dick, or Rabbit ....

Good night all!

:cheers:

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PostTue Jul 07, 2009 2:58 pm » by Cornbread714


Bruce,
I'm glad to see you've gained a bit of perspective by the sound of your last post.

I have to address your condescending and very typically judgmental Christian tone in some of your earlier posts. You have no idea what my spiritual beliefs are, and that's because I don't proselytize.
It's true I don't answer to "a man upstairs". I find those kind of beliefs outmoded and limiting. But I have never questioned your faith or the validity of your experiences.

Man, you have been pushing what appears to be snake oil to most of us. You have done it from day 1, and you continue to make self-referencing posts and threads that are questionable in their very nature, while adopting a holier-than-thou attitude when anyone gives you the feedback you ask for. You claim to be presenting a new approach but you rely on tired old symbolism that has been slightly rearranged to look like something new.

The whole 9 day week thing just rearranges the finite number of days in a year to make workers put in more hours per year. Period. You can't get more free time AND more net hours of work. That's physically impossible, Bruce (unless the man upstairs steps in and changes the laws of physics).

I think you are basically a nice guy and I don't want this to seem like an attack. You've stuck your neck out by foisting this philosophy or marketing plan or whatever it is, and I feel compelled and justified to comment.
I'll admit that the SubGenius comparison might have been a bit over the top, but I think there was a valid point being made. Your response shows your inflexibility, not mine.

I'm not the one selling anything.
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PostTue Jul 07, 2009 8:35 pm » by Flecktarn


999plan wrote:
flecktarn wrote:i also gave feedback on his plans ,told him its been done before and it didnt work also told him what companys used it .and got the spoilt kid treatment ,were not all born yesterday types on this web site ,we have been out in the world and had a good look around and like six told you its your spaming and constant pitching ,in my world if you pitch a plan and you get told alot it sucks and wont work ,take it as that, and once religion gets mentioned that puts business off and alerts the crackpot police ,like i said try dragons den then argue the toss with them when they dont agree with you,you cant change the worlds thinking ,everyone is different


Hi Fleck,

I thought you deserved a response even though it's related to "THE 999 PLAN" thread, but I'll address it here anyway since you all are so focused on it ... pleasantly so. Believe it or not, I've been told more times than not by everyday type of people that they actually like my concept and that maybe under the right integration conditions it might work effectively. The other day, I talked to a close advisor to the Mayor of LA. He actually was quite impressed with what I was sharing. Whether or not anything will come from that meeting, we'll just have to wait and see. Actually, the percentage is closer to 2 to 1.

The problem is as Six rightfully points out that people are reluctant because it's not how the "world" operates, in particular the business world, or how our current labor laws are written. These are the primary rebuttals I hear from business types. It has nothing to do with the concept itself or even my presentation or marketing of it. I only get those type of remarks from the few of you here on DTV.

In addition, contrary to what you said; it's never been tried before whether that be in the UK or USA or anywhere else in the world. If it had, there would be a study for it or it would be patented. Neither of these exist. I checked your sources and none of them have tried the exact specifics of my plan. However, lots of companies have tried variations of another alternative called the 9/80. At present, several companies are experimenting with 4/10's which might prove successful, but it certainly doesn't have my approach which will automatically increase the GDP by 4% when a 9-hr day is employed. However, if you have supporting info to the contrary than feel free to produce it. I challenge you. I'm not trying to prove that the concept works. I know it will. I'm just looking for businesses bold enough to consider and try it. Otherwise, do us all a favor and please keep your subjective opinions to yourself. I've heard you and all this before and I neither want or need another speculative opinion. I get enough of that from similar nay-sayers who continue to use antiquated conventions and wonder why they can't dig themselves out from the recession. Proof me wrong; try it out as your own pilot program completely FREE exactly as I have shown. After 3 months, share the results. If it hasn't worked, I'll leave DTV and you'll personally never have to chat with me again.

Here me clearly, I'm promoting this because I see it as the "right" pathway to try and help us all out of the economic recession. Until someone can factually prove me wrong which requires actual data from companies who have attempted it, then my theories and pro and con points on how it could potentially work is just as valid as your subjective opinion that it will not!

I am 43; the ripe age to lead a "push" of this magnitude. My country can certainly use it ... God knows, the President is hardly making any headway, and I think the world is ready for something completely revolutionary and "outside-the-box".

But by all means, feel free to apply your "outside-the-box" concepts while sticking with your comfortable and antiquated conventions ... you know all those that got us in this huge economic mess in the first place.

No one has any right to bitch at me that it won't work because that's just how the world operates ... look around; the world's not operating all too well the last time I checked!

mate as i pointed out the uk companys to you that tried this type of concept,yet you still ignored the info this was tried in the 90s it did not work and if the mayor of la liked it why are they not using it,the you blow you whole plan by saying its your calling ,come on ,you said my out of the box thinking was comfortable and antiquated yet its your calling to do this for religion ,dont be blinkered check for your self i gave you that info ,and like i said if its that great we would all be using it ,pitch your plans to whoever but be prepaired for knockbacks and dont get stroppy with what you hear listen what info you are given ,check it out ,then form a plan before steamrollering it on dtv,it seems like whatever anyone say to you unless its praise you cant take it ,well welcome to the real world
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PostTue Jul 07, 2009 10:49 pm » by 999plan


flecktarn wrote:mate as i pointed out the uk companys to you that tried this type of concept,yet you still ignored the info this was tried in the 90s it did not work and if the mayor of la liked it why are they not using it,the you blow you whole plan by saying its your calling ,come on ,you said my out of the box thinking was comfortable and antiquated yet its your calling to do this for religion ,dont be blinkered check for your self i gave you that info ,and like i said if its that great we would all be using it ,pitch your plans to whoever but be prepaired for knockbacks and dont get stroppy with what you hear listen what info you are given ,check it out ,then form a plan before steamrollering it on dtv,it seems like whatever anyone say to you unless its praise you cant take it ,well welcome to the real world


On the contrary Fleck, I appreciated you providing the references ... I just couldn't find anything about them trying it or a nine day approach so without supporting proof, I've just concluded it's colorful and subjective opinions on your part. Trust me, I'm ready to present this to anyone who will objectively listen, and I in turn will certainly give them respect with a rebuttal.

By the way, congratulations, you're probably the one who has come the closest to actually articulating a counter-position on my PLAN itself, albeit, your references are foggy without supporting data. But then, I know you say getting the data is my responsibility. That of course is true, initially. But then, I know it will work, just people aren't yet using it. But now when it's your rebuttal, my friend, producing that proof lies with you.

Once again, I will hold my tongue and tolerate your anti-religious banter in the interest of arriving at a little more quantitative and even qualitative substance (thanks Ph0enix, mushroom, Corn, lainn, etc.).

:cheers:
"999"

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PostTue Jul 07, 2009 10:53 pm » by Cornbread714


So, Bruce, is my feedback beneath comment?

Did you read my above post?
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PostTue Jul 07, 2009 11:03 pm » by Mushroom


on a lighter note... This information will beneficial to both sides of the argument

http://www.createdebate.com/debate/show ... his_debate

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PostTue Jul 07, 2009 11:07 pm » by Flecktarn


999plan wrote:
flecktarn wrote:mate as i pointed out the uk companys to you that tried this type of concept,yet you still ignored the info this was tried in the 90s it did not work and if the mayor of la liked it why are they not using it,the you blow you whole plan by saying its your calling ,come on ,you said my out of the box thinking was comfortable and antiquated yet its your calling to do this for religion ,dont be blinkered check for your self i gave you that info ,and like i said if its that great we would all be using it ,pitch your plans to whoever but be prepaired for knockbacks and dont get stroppy with what you hear listen what info you are given ,check it out ,then form a plan before steamrollering it on dtv,it seems like whatever anyone say to you unless its praise you cant take it ,well welcome to the real world


On the contrary Fleck, I appreciated you providing the references ... I just couldn't find anything about them trying it or a nine day approach so without supporting proof, I've just concluded it's colorful and subjective opinions on your part. Trust me, I'm ready to present this to anyone who will objectively listen, and I in turn will certainly give them respect with a rebuttal.

By the way, congratulations, you're probably the one who has come the closest to actually articulating a counter-position on my PLAN itself, albeit, your references are foggy without supporting data. But then, I know you say getting the data is my responsibility. That of course is true, initially. But then, I know it will work, just people aren't yet using it. But now when it's your rebuttal, my friend, producing that proof lies with you.

Once again, I will hold my tongue and tolerate your anti-religious banter in the interest of arriving at a little more quantitative and even qualitative substance (thanks Ph0enix, mushroom, Corn, lainn, etc.).

:cheers:
"999"

covered in the uk press as the unions kicked off about it ,its there to find it was big news for the companys involved ,and as you have found out you need a thick skin on web sites like this we all get nocked and poked yet it produces pages of response ,look at the response your getting, me saying it wont work has got you attention and people to read your posts so me also nocking religion gets people talking and the threads get bigger in the end were all winners as we all get to take part in debateing our views ,and i dont hold any grudges against anyone as lifes to short,think of me as you will ,i do tend to speak my mind in person or via text but atleast you know were i stand, :D
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PostTue Jul 07, 2009 11:51 pm » by 999plan


cornbread714 wrote:So, Bruce, is my feedback beneath comment?

Did you read my above post?


Absolutely not, Corn, your feedback is important, and yes, I read it. Just getting back to it. Sorry, for grouping everyone as "atheistic zealots" or something like that ... you're right, that was uncharacteristically weak of me. Your Faith is what it is!

I imagine even snake oil has a purpose ... oh wait, that's the point. I get it. No, I don't believe this is snake oil because all I'm doing is taking the 365-day calendar and just dividing it up differently. By doing this, people will actually be commuting less days to work (yielding the 20 extra off days), but they will just be working a slightly longer day to 9-hrs. Since people currently work 52 weeks at 40 hrs = 2080 hrs, I'm just taking the inverse where it would now be 40 weeks at 52 hours = 2080 hrs. This approach means that people would just need to work 8.66 hrs daily across the 6 of 9 days. Both approaches are numerically equivalent in terms of total hours to 2080 hrs. So now if we marginally increase the weekly figure to 54 hours which evenly divisible into 6, that yields a proposed 9-hr day. By doing this I'm saying we are automatically creating a 4% increase in productivity in terms of GDP. Obviously, where this might not work as well is where facilities work an around-the-clock schedule. even then though, I believe it would have some benefits with cross-over training and the like.

So now if you are potentially commuting less, you're saving on usage of petrochemical fuels; that's why I'm calling this an energy solution in part. Energy usage might still increase for electricity and the like to keep your facilities open the extra hour or so, but it would be energy provided by your utility provider; not petro-chem usage. Let's just say conservatively, we only save 2% in our overall petro-chemical fuel footprint, that's still a huge hit, enough right there to potentially warrant this kind of transition.

Now if you look at the schedule (not the calendar, that potential Phase comes later), there are other potential benefits including longer vacations, a virtual extra holiday each and every 9 day period, 2 extra drinking or recreational nights out per "week" ... LOL, potential educational benefits, etc. It is my belief that a schedule like this would drive people to be more efficient across 3-day periods of consecutive days vs. our current 5 days. Thereby, potentially driving up GDP productivity even more. I also believe that we won't miss working the extra 2/3's of an hour or the proposed 1 hour as long as it has definite payback. Many companies already have their staff working 9 or more hours per day so this is no different. This just distributes the "WHEN" we work a little differently, that's all.

I could go on and on as you can see and would like to if you're interested, but I think you get the general jist of why this is not a PLAN that can be easily dismissed as some may have made it out to be ... snake oil or some resecrusion ad ... I seriously don't think so.

That's my point, tackle me on the Pros and Cons; not the approach or lack there of. If people will do that, I have absolutely no problem sharing everything I have to offer.

:cheers: :sunny:

"999"

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PostWed Jul 08, 2009 12:51 am » by Cornbread714


Well, I'm glad you're not mad anymore.

My point about the 999 plan is basically that you are still advocating more total man-hours per year.
Fact or not? Unless I misunderstood, this is what you clearly stated.

In another recent post, you stated that a worker would achieve more "virtual" free time.

That's snake oil. You can't work more hours AND have more free time. Period.

Now, if you consider the savings in transportation time and expense for those who have to commute, then there is a benefit, but not substantially different than the 10 hour-a-day, 4- day work week that is already somewhat common and does make some sense.

My biggest problem with the whole plan is that, no matter how you slice it, you are asking workers to put in more hours annually and that does not appeal to me at all.

I've found that anything over 20 hours a week (on the average) is extremely detrimental towards health and spiritual development. I think people are already over-worked and locked into this idea that everyone has to work for someone else to begin with.

Another question. Let's say your plan was implemented by a corporation.
Would there be a directly proportional pay increase corresponding to the extra hours worked? In other words, would the employees still make effectively the same amount per hour?
If so, would that not offset the supposed increase in productivity by increasing labor costs?

And if not, how would you convince the workers to put in so many more hours?

Snake oil. Plain and simple.
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PostWed Jul 08, 2009 1:24 am » by 999plan


cornbread714 wrote:Well, I'm glad you're not mad anymore.

My point about the 999 plan is basically that you are still advocating more total man-hours per year.
Fact or not? Unless I misunderstood, this is what you clearly stated.

In another recent post, you stated that a worker would achieve more "virtual" free time.

That's snake oil. You can't work more hours AND have more free time. Period.

Now, if you consider the savings in transportation time and expense for those who have to commute, then there is a benefit, but not substantially different than the 10 hour-a-day, 4- day work week that is already somewhat common and does make some sense.

My biggest problem with the whole plan is that, no matter how you slice it, you are asking workers to put in more hours annually and that does not appeal to me at all.

I've found that anything over 20 hours a week (on the average) is extremely detrimental towards health and spiritual development. I think people are already over-worked and locked into this idea that everyone has to work for someone else to begin with.

Another question. Let's say your plan was implemented by a corporation.
Would there be a directly proportional pay increase corresponding to the extra hours worked? In other words, would the employees still make effectively the same amount per hour?
If so, would that not offset the supposed increase in productivity by increasing labor costs?

And if not, how would you convince the workers to put in so many more hours?

Snake oil. Plain and simple.



Unless it's passed by government legislation that 9 hours or even 8.66 hours becomes the new standard, obviously it will still be considered overtime. The 9 hrs equates to 2160 hrs annually whereas the the 8.66 hrs equates exactly to the same amount we work now, 2080 hours.

However, that's exactly what I'm advocating, a paradigm shift. A federally-driven "push" to revise our labor laws. It's not because I want people to work more, that's the misconception, I just think we can work more efficiently. Actually, I'm promoting a schedule that allows a person to work 27 hours (3 consecutive days), rest for 24 hours, and then work another 27 hours. Although I don't have the proof for this yet, I believe that one day rest break is what can potentially really sell this PLAN. If you have the capability, try it out for yourself. Break things out as I said in 9-day increments over the next few weeks. I think you might be pleasantly surprised. In fact, you might appreciate commuting in on a weekend day where traffic might be lighter and having off on those seemingly terrible heavy traffic days. Of course, you may have an employer to deal with, but tell them what you are doing and why. Call it an experiment or whatever ... who knows, he might be very interested in the results.

So for argument sake, let's just say there is no law change and everyone continues to work 8-hr days for a total of 1920 hrs annually. That's fine by me. I believe the the efficiency of the schedule could potentially improve the "net" productivity. These are all unknowns that have yet to be explored, but my point is, why not explore them? We have nothing to lose from my perspective.

:cheers: :sunny:
"999"


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