Is money a lie?

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PostWed Apr 22, 2009 12:04 am » by Nuada


Is the economic system merely a facade?

Can someone prove to me that money exists outside that of paper?

Is this a figment of the human imagination?
“ What is your aim in philosophy? – To show the fly the way out of the fly-bottle. ”
—Ludwig Wittgenstein

"Deep in the human unconsciousness is a pervasive need for a logical universe that makes sense. But the real universe is always one step beyond logic . . . . Survival is the ability to swim in strange currents." - Frank Herbert

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PostWed Apr 22, 2009 12:08 am » by Lowsix


When the economy unhinged itself from the gold standard, it became a lie.

And the markets have ALWAYS been a lie..98% of all market transactions, never involve delivery of anything. They simply involve betting on the price fluctuations of commodities between a given set of dates, and has nothing whatsoever to do with Supply/Demand or anything that ties assets to purchase value.

We could not have the world wealth we have if it were tied to asset value, because there could be no speculation to drive pices. The supply demand curve is not steep enough to create global wealth.

So yes, its all a lie.

No money was actually lost in the financial crisis..
it was simply declared with a new value.
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warløckmitbladderinfection wrote:blasphemous new gehenna inhabitant makes god sad...

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PostWed Apr 22, 2009 12:13 am » by Cornbread714


nuada wrote:Is the economic system merely a facade?

Can someone prove to me that money exists outside that of paper?

Is this a figment of the human imagination?


C'mon, you know the answer to this.
Sure sucks to be without a pocketful those figments, though, don't it?

If you mean does modern currency represent a relationship to anything other than a fabricated 'agreement', then the answer is no. :sunny:
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PostWed Apr 22, 2009 12:56 am » by Nuada


There is a clear correlation between labour and money. The labour value is the driving force of any society. It is WE THE PEOPLE that are the fruits. The economic system it seems is the very instrument of disenfranchising the people from the value of their labour. We go to work and are therefore screwed, we cannot afford to buy what we produce, for if we could then there'd be no profit for the masters of the universe.,
“ What is your aim in philosophy? – To show the fly the way out of the fly-bottle. ”
—Ludwig Wittgenstein

"Deep in the human unconsciousness is a pervasive need for a logical universe that makes sense. But the real universe is always one step beyond logic . . . . Survival is the ability to swim in strange currents." - Frank Herbert

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PostWed Apr 22, 2009 1:07 am » by Lowsix


Wealth is not created by the creation of widgets.
Pocket money is generated by widgets.

Betting on the prices of currencies, and commodities,
and financial vehicles is what creates the wealth that drives this world.
And really needs VERY little input from us humans.

Those are the fruits, not the people..
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warløckmitbladderinfection wrote:blasphemous new gehenna inhabitant makes god sad...

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PostWed Apr 22, 2009 1:14 am » by Nuada


LowSix wrote:Wealth is not created by the creation of widgets.
Pocket money is generated by widgets.

Betting on the prices of currencies, and commodities,
and financial vehicles is what creates the wealth that drives this world.
And really needs VERY little input from us humans.

Those are the fruits, not the people..



Where, therefore, do the people stand in your philosophy?
Are they like the Russians you spoke of earlier?
Or the Jewish victims?
Or the Cambodian masses?

I'm struggling to find your true agenda here. Mine is clearly on the table.
“ What is your aim in philosophy? – To show the fly the way out of the fly-bottle. ”
—Ludwig Wittgenstein

"Deep in the human unconsciousness is a pervasive need for a logical universe that makes sense. But the real universe is always one step beyond logic . . . . Survival is the ability to swim in strange currents." - Frank Herbert

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PostWed Apr 22, 2009 1:21 am » by Sovereignspirit


A world without money is a world at peace, Its just something they dangle over your head to keep people enslaved to the system.

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PostWed Apr 22, 2009 1:23 am » by Nuada


sovereignspirit wrote:A world without money is a world at peace, Its just something they dangle over your head to keep people enslaved to the system.


Case in point brother
“ What is your aim in philosophy? – To show the fly the way out of the fly-bottle. ”
—Ludwig Wittgenstein

"Deep in the human unconsciousness is a pervasive need for a logical universe that makes sense. But the real universe is always one step beyond logic . . . . Survival is the ability to swim in strange currents." - Frank Herbert

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PostWed Apr 22, 2009 1:28 am » by Snake Plissken


I hate money, i really do, but unfortunately the world we live in at the moment dictates the we need it. It would be wonderfull if we could go back to exchanging things of real value again, like food or skills or knowledge, but if we did im sure we might arrive back at the same point because money is so damned convenient..

Does it have any rwal value? I dont think it does, but i think it is important to remember how we got to this point, why money exists. I hate it, lets all go back to trading based on our skills and what we can do for people, maybe im wrong and we wont arrive back at the same situation! :wink:
"The more things change the more they stay the same..."

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PostWed Apr 22, 2009 1:58 am » by Killtylerdurden


No, money isn't a lie. It is and always has been simply imaginary. I'd explain further, however many around here display an often illusory distrust of the government and trying to convey the basis of a fiat system would be fruitless, if feasible...
LowSix wrote:When the economy unhinged itself from the gold standard, it became a lie.

And the markets have ALWAYS been a lie..98% of all market transactions, never involve delivery of anything. They simply involve betting on the price fluctuations of commodities between a given set of dates, and has nothing whatsoever to do with Supply/Demand or anything that ties assets to purchase value.

We could not have the world wealth we have if it were tied to asset value, because there could be no speculation to drive pices. The supply demand curve is not steep enough to create global wealth.

So yes, its all a lie.

No money was actually lost in the financial crisis..
it was simply declared with a new value.

Okay, you don't even know the difference between commodities and securities, what else makes you an expert on "the markets"?

And you also claim that when one buys stock, nothing happens. Seriously? Where does the money go? and what's with all this stock appearing in my account? Further, what happens when I shell out the cash to hold certificates? What are these documents that are being mailed to me? Nothing of consequence, you assert. Beyond that, some securities are traded hundreds of times a second, which implies that there are hundreds of both buyers and sellers lined up with their asks, bids, and triggers all lined up. Billions of dollars being exchanged for billions of securities on a daily basis. If this isn't a market, set me straight.

Also, why are you so hung up on gold?

Edit: So we're clear, many people lost a ton of money since October. You know how I know this? Because some made money in the markets turning down...
Last edited by Killtylerdurden on Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:09 am, edited 1 time in total.


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