"Isaac Newton and the falling apple" moment RE: Hollow Earth

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PostFri Mar 04, 2011 2:18 am » by Ademu


I had this mini revelation earlier while reading through "The Smokey God", sorry if this theory has been floated around before.

So lets assume the earth is hollow with two large openings at the poles.

As everyone knows compasses become unreliable the closer you get to the poles, yet we've never really gotten a good explanation for it.

**For this next part please keep in mind that if the earth is hollow then the center of gravity would be the center of that outer crust, I'm also assuming that the natural electric charges of the earth are most highly concentrated in the center of the crust as well, with the positive charge being at the north pole**

My theory is that as you start to enter the lip of the openings at the poles your compass merely is continuing to read these magnetic fields in the crust, BUT since you are no longer on the outside of the planets surface, the compass starts to spin uncontrollably since the positive charge is no longer to the north of you but actually all around you.

I'm pretty sure I have my science right on this, so if anyone can find any holes in my logic please point them out to me. I believe strong proven scientific fact is our best weapon for finding the truth, so please eviscerate this theory to the best of your abilities. I just want to figure out the truth.

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PostFri Mar 04, 2011 2:28 am » by Smokeydog


magnetic north is not at the north pole dude
http://www.youtube.com/user/smokeydogsmokey

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PostFri Mar 04, 2011 2:45 am » by Ademu


I assume you are refferring to Magnetic declination which actually would totally fit into this theory and would explain the the differences depending on your location in regards to your closest point in the opening of the crust, which is purported to be around 1200 miles in diameter.

I propose that Magnetic north is in the middle of the crust all they way around the rim of the opening.

As I have time tommorrow I will try and see if True north from these points matches the closest point of the rim based on the size estimate and then calculate how many degrees off that is from the center of the north pole.

If my theory is correct It should match up within a degree or two (giving room for error since we have no idea how large the hole is)

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PostFri Mar 04, 2011 4:19 am » by Emeraldtruth


If you think your idea is original, it's already been postulated unfortunately. However I appreciate you sharing your thoughts. Offhand I recall reading a theory which stuck with me stating that gravitys central point is about a third of the way down towards the earths centre.

Which just made me realise as I type also the fact that this could correlate exactly with the old dimensions of the earth according to the expanding Earth theory.

Cheers for that :)

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PostFri Mar 04, 2011 12:13 pm » by Frankenstein


ademu wrote:I had this mini revelation earlier while reading through "The Smokey God", sorry if this theory has been floated around before.

So lets assume the earth is hollow with two large openings at the poles.

As everyone knows compasses become unreliable the closer you get to the poles, yet we've never really gotten a good explanation for it.

**For this next part please keep in mind that if the earth is hollow then the center of gravity would be the center of that outer crust, I'm also assuming that the natural electric charges of the earth are most highly concentrated in the center of the crust as well, with the positive charge being at the north pole**

My theory is that as you start to enter the lip of the openings at the poles your compass merely is continuing to read these magnetic fields in the crust, BUT since you are no longer on the outside of the planets surface, the compass starts to spin uncontrollably since the positive charge is no longer to the north of you but actually all around you.

I'm pretty sure I have my science right on this, so if anyone can find any holes in my logic please point them out to me. I believe strong proven scientific fact is our best weapon for finding the truth, so please eviscerate this theory to the best of your abilities. I just want to figure out the truth.


No.

Perhaps you mean something different from center of gravity than what is normally considered to be so in science, because the center of gravity would still be at the center of the earth even if it were hollow.

Also, if the magnetic field lines did actually follow the inner surface of the hollow world, the magnetic compass would work exactly the same inside as outside. The only place a compass would spin is at either pole. Once you moved down into the inner surface, the north pole would still read as the north pole on the inner surface. Just like if you held a compass inside the center of a large toroidal electromagnet. (this would be like being inside a magnet)

Also, you seem to be confusing charge and magnetic field. Charge is to do with electricity and the imbalance of electrons between two points, whereas magnetism is to do with an innate state of the ferrous matter. Even if you were to be referring to electromagnetism, charge is to do with "stationary" electrons and magnetism is to do with "moving" electrons.

I have put this as simply as possible, so I apologize if any of the analogies seem inaccurate.

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PostFri Mar 04, 2011 12:44 pm » by Auslight


there is a scientific expedition to the noth pole this august with a nuclear icebreaker to test out hollow earth and magnetic anomalies . one of the many scientists on board will be brent miller from horizon project who will set up live webcams . they plan to locate and explore the “northern oceanic depression” should be interesting.

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PostFri Mar 04, 2011 4:55 pm » by Ademu


@ Frankenstein

Thanks for the thorough response. I do have a few questions and observations if you don't mind.

1st) which theory are you basing your gravitational equations off of so we can get on the same page? General Relativity or some version of the Quantum Gravity theory( i.e. String theory or Loop Quantum Gravity)?

2nd) You are correct in that I wasn't describing center of gravity but I was describing center of mass. I have a tendency to interchange the two without thinking about even though I know they are different concepts. I believe you are referring to the Shell Theorem when stating that the earth's center of gravity would still be in the center of the planet even if the crust was just a shell. I know this theorem was proven by Newton back in his day. However, I'm curious as to what the effects would be if there were two large openings at either pole of the sphere, how would this then effect the Shell Theorem as it would not necessarilly be a spherically symmetric body?


3rd) "Also, if the magnetic field lines did actually follow the inner surface of the hollow world, the magnetic compass would work exactly the same inside as outside. The only place a compass would spin is at either pole. Once you moved down into the inner surface, the north pole would still read as the north pole on the inner surface. Just like if you held a compass inside the center of a large toroidal electromagnet. (this would be like being inside a magnet)"

You are absolutely correct in this statement, and this is what I was trying to imply.(I should have explained in more detail above). With that in mind, i propose that the compass starts to spin once you hit the outer lip of the hole. The compass will continue to spin until you pass over the inner lip of the hole at which time it will resume normal function.(keep in mind that estimates of the crust's thickness is roughly 800 miles, so that would be the length in distance that the compass would spin).

4th) Can you go into more detail on your dismissal of the electromagnetic idea.

**This is very simplified as I don't have a strong knowledge base in electromagnets**

My ideas on this area is essentially that the Earth is like a giant battery, with the different conductors found in it's physical makeup(Iron, aluminum, water, etc.) essentially acting as wire coiled around it. To me this sounds like an electromagnet with overlapping magnetic fields due to the "coiled wire". I feel like I am missing something large out of this rationalization, most likely concerning the nature of these fields and their magnetic force. All though for some reason I keep thinking that solenoids play a part and may explain this in some way, but as i said electromagnets are not my strongsuit.


Once again, i really appreciate you looking at this for me, and in the future please don't feel the need to state your rebuttals simply. The more technical your reply the better.

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PostFri Mar 04, 2011 4:58 pm » by Ademu


emeraldtruth wrote:If you think your idea is original, it's already been postulated unfortunately. However I appreciate you sharing your thoughts. Offhand I recall reading a theory which stuck with me stating that gravitys central point is about a third of the way down towards the earths centre.

Which just made me realise as I type also the fact that this could correlate exactly with the old dimensions of the earth according to the expanding Earth theory.

Cheers for that :)


That's very interesting, would you happen to remember the source where you read that so that I may look into it further?

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PostFri Mar 04, 2011 5:09 pm » by Ademu


auslight wrote:there is a scientific expedition to the noth pole this august with a nuclear icebreaker to test out hollow earth and magnetic anomalies . one of the many scientists on board will be brent miller from horizon project who will set up live webcams . they plan to locate and explore the “northern oceanic depression” should be interesting.



Last I heard the ISCE was having trouble securing all of the funding, and they are running out of time as the last commercially available for charter nuclear icebreaker is set to be scrapped sometime towards the end of 2012.

That being said if it ever happens, a live feed is the only way I can see being able to convert the masses if it is true. As adventurous as the human spirit has always been i find it odd so few expeditions have been sent to the poles(well not antarctica, you'll get shot before you ever get close). I chalk it up to having it drilled in our heads that absolutely nothing is there, but for whatever reason I just can't believe it until I see it with my own two eyes.

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PostFri Mar 04, 2011 5:23 pm » by Frankenstein


ademu wrote:@ Frankenstein

Thanks for the thorough response. I do have a few questions and observations if you don't mind.

1st) which theory are you basing your gravitational equations off of so we can get on the same page? General Relativity or some version of the Quantum Gravity theory( i.e. String theory or Loop Quantum Gravity)?

2nd) You are correct in that I wasn't describing center of gravity but I was describing center of mass. I have a tendency to interchange the two without thinking about even though I know they are different concepts. I believe you are referring to the Shell Theorem when stating that the earth's center of gravity would still be in the center of the planet even if the crust was just a shell. I know this theorem was proven by Newton back in his day. However, I'm curious as to what the effects would be if there were two large openings at either pole of the sphere, how would this then effect the Shell Theorem as it would not necessarilly be a spherically symmetric body?


3rd) "Also, if the magnetic field lines did actually follow the inner surface of the hollow world, the magnetic compass would work exactly the same inside as outside. The only place a compass would spin is at either pole. Once you moved down into the inner surface, the north pole would still read as the north pole on the inner surface. Just like if you held a compass inside the center of a large toroidal electromagnet. (this would be like being inside a magnet)"

You are absolutely correct in this statement, and this is what I was trying to imply.(I should have explained in more detail above). With that in mind, i propose that the compass starts to spin once you hit the outer lip of the hole. The compass will continue to spin until you pass over the inner lip of the hole at which time it will resume normal function.(keep in mind that estimates of the crust's thickness is roughly 800 miles, so that would be the length in distance that the compass would spin).

4th) Can you go into more detail on your dismissal of the electromagnetic idea.

**This is very simplified as I don't have a strong knowledge base in electromagnets**

My ideas on this area is essentially that the Earth is like a giant battery, with the different conductors found in it's physical makeup(Iron, aluminum, water, etc.) essentially acting as wire coiled around it. To me this sounds like an electromagnet with overlapping magnetic fields due to the "coiled wire". I feel like I am missing something large out of this rationalization, most likely concerning the nature of these fields and their magnetic force. All though for some reason I keep thinking that solenoids play a part and may explain this in some way, but as i said electromagnets are not my strongsuit.


Once again, i really appreciate you looking at this for me, and in the future please don't feel the need to state your rebuttals simply. The more technical your reply the better.


1. I was not using any exotic gravitational theory, only Newtonian which is sufficient at normal mass and sizes.

2. Also, I think you are trying to state that the apparent direction of gravity would be towards the crust from both inside the hollowed out earth and outside in our normal realm. The direction of the gravitational force is what you are referring to, not center of gravity or mass. If it was indeed hollow, then there would be a point at the center of the earth that was 'zero' gravity (gravity pulling equally from all directions), from a center of gravity or mass point of view, this would be the point. Also depending upon the thickness of the crust, the gravity on the inside would be less than outside because of opposing gravitational forces from the opposite side.

3. How far the compass would spin would depend upon where the field originates from as well as the 'shape' of the entrance. One could imagine a 'pointed' entrance where the crust gradually got thicker as it proceeded towards the equator, reaching a maximum thickness at any point. All of this would have a bearing on any magnetic field variation.

4. It would be very hard for me to explain this in words, demonstrations and pictures help a real lot in this case.

To create an electromagnet, you have to move current through a conductor. If the 'conductors' were to be found only in a crust in a hollowed out earth, it would be difficult to account for the wandering poles (the north magnetic pole is heading towards Siberia at 40 miles per year) and it would also make it very hard to account for pole flips and the variability of the field that we are currently seeing.

PS. I do not discount any ideas, just attempt to see if the evidence fits the idea. In this case, it is leaning against the idea that the magnetic field is a result of crustal conduction. If the earth was hollow, I think a better theory for the magnetic field would be something at the center of it all, ie. at the center of mass. Such a free floating 'thing' could more easily account for magnetic variability and pole flips.

JMHO.


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