ISLAM and the Abrahamic Faith MYTH
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• Page 1 of 2 • 1, 2
Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:31 pm » by Abdul14
The figure of Abraham is central to the faiths of Judaism, Christianity and Islam with all claiming to be descendants of Abraham’s seed. Islam states that it is just another Abrahamic faith like Judaism and Christianity and indeed replaces the two earlier faiths. This is ideal for Interfaith groups and for Islamic Da’wah as it gives people a sense of comfort knowing that Abraham features prominently in Islam along with other prophets such as Moses and Jesus. Often the Quran is sold as the final revelation from God replacing both the Old Testament and the New Testament. However we should ask ourselves the question “what does it mean to be an Abrahamic faith”? Is it in fact enough that Abraham is figured in the Quran to justify this claim? Even to the casual observer, Islam is pitted against both the Jews and Christians with increasing levels of hostility. Moreover because of Sura 3.110 Muslims believe they are the best of people, evolved for mankind, and thus expect preferential treatment when they emigrate to Western countries with a Judeo-Christian framework.
This article then examines the nature of God for the three religions and the attributes of worship to determine whether they can be classed under the title of Abrahamic faith, remembering Abraham was a man of faith, NOT faiths.
Who was the God of Abraham?
When Moses was at Horeb and encountered the burning bush, he was instructed by an angel of the Lord thus:
“YHWY, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is my name forever, the name by which I am to be remembered from generation to generation”. [Exodus 3:14-15]
So the God of Abraham is called WHWY only, forever!
And the Bible says that men began to call on the name of YHWY after the birth of Enoch, the son of Seth who was the son of Adam. [Genesis 4:26]
When Moses asked who he is to say God was, God said “I AM who I am”. When Jesus was preaching in the temple about Abraham, he stated “Very truly I tell you, before Abraham was, I AM”. [John 8:58] So Jesus was referring to his divinity and that he was of ancient origins as the prophet Micah had predicted. [Micah 5:2] Jesus also claimed to be “the Alpha and Omega” in Revelation 1:8. Now WHWY means “he is or he will be” and is the third person form of “I AM”. So from Abraham to Moses and to Jesus, the name for God is WHWY and is constant. This is accepted by both Jew and Christian. However the name WHWY does not appear at all in the Quran. Allah which is an abbreviation of Al Ilah or “the God” is always given as the name of the Muslim God.
In no way can the name WHWY be the same as Allah.
Building a House for God
When Moses built the sanctuary to worship WHWY in the wilderness, God gave him very specific instructions as to the floor plan and the requirements. [Exodus 36]. The temple consisted of three parts. An inner court which connected to an inner sanctuary, called the “Holy of Holies”, and an outer court. The Holy of Holies was to house the Ark of the Covenant which Moses was to build with specific instructions. The presence of the Lord filled the Ark of the Covenant, a concept which is foreign to Islam as they believe that Allah is distant or remote.
Likewise when Solomon built a temple for WHWY on Mt Moriah over the threshing floor of Ornan the Jebusite, he was building to a similar plan. [1 Kings 6,7,8] Note that God asked Solomon, a Jew, to build a temple to God on the Holy Mountain. God did NOT ask an Arab Muslim to build a Mosque on Mt. Moriah. The Quran states that Adam was a Muslim [Sura 2.37] and also Moses was a Muslim. [Sura 7.143]
However, in 685AD the Muslim leader Abd al-Malik did construct a shrine to the prophet Mohammed on Mount Moriah after the second Temple built by Herod was destroyed in 70AD by Roman soldiers led by Titus. The Dome of the Rock as it is called was completed in 691AD and also the Al Aqsa mosque was built behind it and finished in 705AD. An interesting and not insignificant fact is that the Dome of the Rock was NOT built over the site of Solomon’s temple but some one hundred metres to the South. Because of this, it stands in the Court of the Gentiles and is NOT holy to WHYW at all.
In 533BC, a prophecy was given to the prophet Daniel by the angel Gabriel about a structure that would be set up on the Holy Mountain.
From the time that the regular burnt offering is taken away and the abomination that desolates is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. [Dan 12:11
Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon destroyed Jerusalem and the sanctuary in 586BC but it was in 583BC, the 23rd year of his reign, when the last group of 745 Jews were taken away to captivity. [Jeremiah 52:30].
His reign began in 606AD so his 23rd year would have been 583BC. Now the 1290 days are to be interpreted as prophetic years of 360 days. Converting to astronomical solar years we get 1271.5 years as the vision of the prophecy. Moving forward 1271 years from 583BC we get 1271 – 583 = 688AD.
Hence the fulfilment date becomes 688AD which was the mid-point of the building program of Abd al-Malik. Now in over 1300 years no other structure has been built on Mt Moriah so the Dome of the Rock, the shrine to Allah’s prophet Mohammed, is an Abomination that Desolates in the eyes of WHWY.
Understand this: the Temple of Solomon was holy to WHWY but the Islamic shrine is an Abomination!
Also the direction of prayer as set by the Qibla in Islam has no equivalent in Judaism or Christianity, further defining the differences between WHWY and Allah.
Does the Promise come through Isaac or Ishmael?
This is another area of difference between Jew and Muslim with Muslims claiming Jews have altered their text and replaced Ishmael with Isaac (because they were jealous of the Arabs). Of course, if it was Ishmael that God asked to be sacrificed, that would elevate Ishmael in God’s importance above Isaac. Islam can then claim superiority over Judaism which it wants to do.
Firstly let us consider Islamic text.
The story is contained in Sura 37:99-113.
037.099 : He said: "I will go to my Lord! He will surely guide me!
037.100 : "O my Lord! Grant me a righteous (son)!"
037.101 : So We gave him the good news of a boy ready to suffer and forbear.
037.102 : Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said: "O my son! I see in vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: Now see what is thy view!" (The son) said: "O my father! Do as thou art commanded: thou will find me, if Allah so wills one practising Patience and Constancy!"
037.103 : So when they had both submitted their wills (to Allah), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (for sacrifice),
037.104 : We called out to him "O Abraham!
037.105 : "Thou hast already fulfilled the vision!" - thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
037.106 : For this was obviously a trial-
037.107 : And We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice:
037.108 : And We left (this blessing) for him among generations (to come) in later times:
037.109 : "Peace and salutation to Abraham!"
037.110 : Thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
037.111 : For he was one of our believing Servants.
037.112 : And We gave him the good news of Isaac - a prophet,- one of the Righteous.
037.113 : We blessed him and Isaac: but of their progeny are (some) that do right, and (some) that obviously do wrong, to their own souls.
In the Quran Ishmael is the one who is offered for sacrifice [S37.102] as the birth of Isaac is announced later. The birth of Isaac is announced after this [S37.112] implying that Isaac was not born when God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son.
The Bible story is of course different to the Quran.
In Genesis 21 when Sarah was weaning Isaac, she became jealous of Ishmael playing with Isaac so she asked Abraham to send Hagar and Ishmael away. Abraham did this after getting God’s approval.
So the reason to send Ishmael and Hagar away was because of jealousy, which means that:
(1) Isaac was born before God asked Abraham for sacrifice, and
(2) Ishmael does not return as he was living in Arabia.
Chapter 22 of Genesis then describes how God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son. From the text, considerable time had passed since Ishmael and Hagar had departed.
Muslims argue that the Jews have altered the text as it refers to the only son of Abraham. However Isaac was the only son of the promise and of Abraham’s wife. Of course, the Sa’na documents found in the mosque in Yemen and dated to around 705AD prove that the Quran has also been altered.
Who knows? Where is the proof that the Genesis story was altered to favour Jews?
The Genesis story predated the Quran by at least 1600 years and how would the Jews know that Mohammed was to be born and receive a contradictory revelation?
The Separation of church and state
We are all aware that Islam is a totalitarian system combining religion, politics and law into one entity with no separation. This is Allah’s decree.
But Judaism and Christianity are fundamentally different here with WHWY declaring they are to be different and later confirmed by Jesus when he uttered his famous statement “give to Caesar what is Caesars”.
Allah defines things as either Halal (permitted) or Haram (forbidden) whereas WHYH defines things as Holy or secular. In the Bible, God appointed prophets, priests and Kings as separate and distinct functions of office.
For example, Moses was a prophet but it was Aaron who performed the priestly duties in the temple.
Bread and Wine anyone?
Both bread and wine were staple foods in Israel and were considered as blessings from God in Deuteronomy 7:13, 14:23. However wine is Haram or forbidden in Islam.
But what about Abraham?
Genesis 14 tells the story about Abraham who was successful in battle being attended to by the High Priest Melchizedek who served the bread and wine and blessed Abraham with the words:
“Blessed be Abram by God most High, maker of Heaven and Earth”.
So wine was not forbidden for Abraham!
And of course, Jesus offered the bread and wine to his disciples to commemorate his new covenant at the Last Supper before his crucifixion. [Matthew 26:26-29].
Jesus of course to Christians was the perfect sacrificial lamb who was crucified at the Jewish Passover.
The wine represents his sacred blood, and it was the blood of the sacrificial lamb sprinkled above the door that saved the firstborn of Israel in Egypt. Islam does not recognize the Jewish Passover festival.
Did Abraham come from Ur or out of a Fire?
History tells us that Abram was born in the town of Ur but later decided to travel to Haran where he received a calling from God.
However the Quran has an interesting account of how Allah saved Abraham after he had been thrown into a fire.
The story is given in Sura 21:51-71.
Abraham confronts his people and his father because of the many idols which they worship. After an argument between Abraham and the people, they depart and Abraham breaks the smaller idols, leaving the larger ones intact. When the people see this they call Abraham and ask if he is responsible, to which he replies that it must have been the larger idols which did the destruction. He challenges them to ask the larger idols to find out, to which they reply, "Thou knowest full well that these (idols) do not speak!" (aya 65). He gives a taunting retort, and they then throw him into a fire. But in aya 69 Allah commands the fire to be cool, making it safe for Abraham, and he miraculously walks out unscathed.
There are no parallels to this story in our Bible. There is a parallel, however, in a second century book of Jewish folktales called The Midrash Rabbah. In this account Abraham breaks all the idols except the biggest one. His father and the others challenged him on this, and with an added bit of humour, which is missing in the Qur'anic account, Abraham responds by saying that he had given the biggest idol an ox for all the idols to eat, but because the smaller idols went ahead and ate, they thus did not show respect. The bigger idol consequently smashed the smaller idols. The enraged father did not believe Abraham's account, and so took him to a man named Nimrod, who simply threw him into a fire. But God made it cool for him and he walked out unscathed.
The similarity between these two stories is quite unmistakable. A second century Jewish fable, a folklore, and myth is repeated in the "holy Qur'an." It is quite evident that Muhammad or another author heard this story from the Jews, but because he could not read their books, though he had heard snatches of the Biblical narratives, from visiting Jews, or even his wives, he simply assumed they came from the same source, and unwittingly wrote Jewish folklore into his Qur'an.
In Genesis 15:7, the Lord tells Abraham that it was He who brought Abraham out of Ur of the Chaldeans. Ur is a place, also mentioned in Genesis 11:31. We have evidence that a Jewish scribe named Jonathan Ben Uziel mistook the Hebrew word "Ur" for the Hebrew word which means "fire." Thus in his commentary of this verse he writes, "I am the Lord who brought you out of the fire of the Chaldeans."
Consequently, because of this misunderstanding, and because of a misreading of the Biblical verse a fable became popular around this era, which stated that God had brought Abraham out of the fire.
Conclusion
Muslims are migrating to western countries in ever increasing numbers. They demand superiority even though they claim to worship the same God as the Jew and Christian. They believe that Allah has given them everything we own. They take over our churches and convert them to mosques. They even take over our cemeteries and turn them into Muslim only burial grounds. In the Quran, they have altered the story of Abraham, have changed the teachings of Moses with Mohammed breaking the Ten Commandments and they have distorted the teachings of Jesus. They claim that the Quran is the unaltered word of Allah and is preserved in stone tablets in Heaven. [Sura 85:21,22] However which version is in Heaven? The one completed by Caliph Uthman, or is it the one from the Sa’na mosque in Yemen or is it the version we read today?
It is very clear that Muslims can’t claim the moral high ground here as the Quran has obviously undergone progressive development, even to including Jewish apocryphal material from the second century.
Before we answer the question as to whether Islam is an Abrahamic faith, we should summarize our findings.
(1) Both Jew and Christian worship a God called WHYH but Islam worship Allah, and WHYH is NOT Allah;
(2) Temple worship is different and the direction of prayer is only significant to a Muslim;
(3) The shrine to the prophet of Allah known as the Dome of the Rock is an Abomination that Desolates to WHYH;
(4) The promise of WHYH comes through the seed of Isaac and not Ishmael;
(5) Church and state are separated for Judaism and Christianity, whereas Islam is totalitarian with no separation;
(6) Wine is important in sacred practices in both Judaism and Christianity and is not banned in the secular sense, but wine is forbidden (haram) in Islam;
From the above we can only conclude that:
1. WHYH is not the same God as Allah, and
2. Islam is NOT Abrahamic in the sense that Judaism and Christianity are.
Action Required
I believe it is imperative to stop Muslims from referring to Islam as another Abrahamic faith (because quite clearly it is not) and also it should be made clear that Allah is NOT the same as the God of the Bible.
Wouldn’t that liven up Interfaith meetings?
This article then examines the nature of God for the three religions and the attributes of worship to determine whether they can be classed under the title of Abrahamic faith, remembering Abraham was a man of faith, NOT faiths.
Who was the God of Abraham?
When Moses was at Horeb and encountered the burning bush, he was instructed by an angel of the Lord thus:
“YHWY, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is my name forever, the name by which I am to be remembered from generation to generation”. [Exodus 3:14-15]
So the God of Abraham is called WHWY only, forever!
And the Bible says that men began to call on the name of YHWY after the birth of Enoch, the son of Seth who was the son of Adam. [Genesis 4:26]
When Moses asked who he is to say God was, God said “I AM who I am”. When Jesus was preaching in the temple about Abraham, he stated “Very truly I tell you, before Abraham was, I AM”. [John 8:58] So Jesus was referring to his divinity and that he was of ancient origins as the prophet Micah had predicted. [Micah 5:2] Jesus also claimed to be “the Alpha and Omega” in Revelation 1:8. Now WHWY means “he is or he will be” and is the third person form of “I AM”. So from Abraham to Moses and to Jesus, the name for God is WHWY and is constant. This is accepted by both Jew and Christian. However the name WHWY does not appear at all in the Quran. Allah which is an abbreviation of Al Ilah or “the God” is always given as the name of the Muslim God.
In no way can the name WHWY be the same as Allah.
Building a House for God
When Moses built the sanctuary to worship WHWY in the wilderness, God gave him very specific instructions as to the floor plan and the requirements. [Exodus 36]. The temple consisted of three parts. An inner court which connected to an inner sanctuary, called the “Holy of Holies”, and an outer court. The Holy of Holies was to house the Ark of the Covenant which Moses was to build with specific instructions. The presence of the Lord filled the Ark of the Covenant, a concept which is foreign to Islam as they believe that Allah is distant or remote.
Likewise when Solomon built a temple for WHWY on Mt Moriah over the threshing floor of Ornan the Jebusite, he was building to a similar plan. [1 Kings 6,7,8] Note that God asked Solomon, a Jew, to build a temple to God on the Holy Mountain. God did NOT ask an Arab Muslim to build a Mosque on Mt. Moriah. The Quran states that Adam was a Muslim [Sura 2.37] and also Moses was a Muslim. [Sura 7.143]
However, in 685AD the Muslim leader Abd al-Malik did construct a shrine to the prophet Mohammed on Mount Moriah after the second Temple built by Herod was destroyed in 70AD by Roman soldiers led by Titus. The Dome of the Rock as it is called was completed in 691AD and also the Al Aqsa mosque was built behind it and finished in 705AD. An interesting and not insignificant fact is that the Dome of the Rock was NOT built over the site of Solomon’s temple but some one hundred metres to the South. Because of this, it stands in the Court of the Gentiles and is NOT holy to WHYW at all.
In 533BC, a prophecy was given to the prophet Daniel by the angel Gabriel about a structure that would be set up on the Holy Mountain.
From the time that the regular burnt offering is taken away and the abomination that desolates is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. [Dan 12:11
Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon destroyed Jerusalem and the sanctuary in 586BC but it was in 583BC, the 23rd year of his reign, when the last group of 745 Jews were taken away to captivity. [Jeremiah 52:30].
His reign began in 606AD so his 23rd year would have been 583BC. Now the 1290 days are to be interpreted as prophetic years of 360 days. Converting to astronomical solar years we get 1271.5 years as the vision of the prophecy. Moving forward 1271 years from 583BC we get 1271 – 583 = 688AD.
Hence the fulfilment date becomes 688AD which was the mid-point of the building program of Abd al-Malik. Now in over 1300 years no other structure has been built on Mt Moriah so the Dome of the Rock, the shrine to Allah’s prophet Mohammed, is an Abomination that Desolates in the eyes of WHWY.
Understand this: the Temple of Solomon was holy to WHWY but the Islamic shrine is an Abomination!
Also the direction of prayer as set by the Qibla in Islam has no equivalent in Judaism or Christianity, further defining the differences between WHWY and Allah.
Does the Promise come through Isaac or Ishmael?
This is another area of difference between Jew and Muslim with Muslims claiming Jews have altered their text and replaced Ishmael with Isaac (because they were jealous of the Arabs). Of course, if it was Ishmael that God asked to be sacrificed, that would elevate Ishmael in God’s importance above Isaac. Islam can then claim superiority over Judaism which it wants to do.
Firstly let us consider Islamic text.
The story is contained in Sura 37:99-113.
037.099 : He said: "I will go to my Lord! He will surely guide me!
037.100 : "O my Lord! Grant me a righteous (son)!"
037.101 : So We gave him the good news of a boy ready to suffer and forbear.
037.102 : Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said: "O my son! I see in vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: Now see what is thy view!" (The son) said: "O my father! Do as thou art commanded: thou will find me, if Allah so wills one practising Patience and Constancy!"
037.103 : So when they had both submitted their wills (to Allah), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (for sacrifice),
037.104 : We called out to him "O Abraham!
037.105 : "Thou hast already fulfilled the vision!" - thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
037.106 : For this was obviously a trial-
037.107 : And We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice:
037.108 : And We left (this blessing) for him among generations (to come) in later times:
037.109 : "Peace and salutation to Abraham!"
037.110 : Thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
037.111 : For he was one of our believing Servants.
037.112 : And We gave him the good news of Isaac - a prophet,- one of the Righteous.
037.113 : We blessed him and Isaac: but of their progeny are (some) that do right, and (some) that obviously do wrong, to their own souls.
In the Quran Ishmael is the one who is offered for sacrifice [S37.102] as the birth of Isaac is announced later. The birth of Isaac is announced after this [S37.112] implying that Isaac was not born when God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son.
The Bible story is of course different to the Quran.
In Genesis 21 when Sarah was weaning Isaac, she became jealous of Ishmael playing with Isaac so she asked Abraham to send Hagar and Ishmael away. Abraham did this after getting God’s approval.
So the reason to send Ishmael and Hagar away was because of jealousy, which means that:
(1) Isaac was born before God asked Abraham for sacrifice, and
(2) Ishmael does not return as he was living in Arabia.
Chapter 22 of Genesis then describes how God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son. From the text, considerable time had passed since Ishmael and Hagar had departed.
Muslims argue that the Jews have altered the text as it refers to the only son of Abraham. However Isaac was the only son of the promise and of Abraham’s wife. Of course, the Sa’na documents found in the mosque in Yemen and dated to around 705AD prove that the Quran has also been altered.
Who knows? Where is the proof that the Genesis story was altered to favour Jews?
The Genesis story predated the Quran by at least 1600 years and how would the Jews know that Mohammed was to be born and receive a contradictory revelation?
The Separation of church and state
We are all aware that Islam is a totalitarian system combining religion, politics and law into one entity with no separation. This is Allah’s decree.
But Judaism and Christianity are fundamentally different here with WHWY declaring they are to be different and later confirmed by Jesus when he uttered his famous statement “give to Caesar what is Caesars”.
Allah defines things as either Halal (permitted) or Haram (forbidden) whereas WHYH defines things as Holy or secular. In the Bible, God appointed prophets, priests and Kings as separate and distinct functions of office.
For example, Moses was a prophet but it was Aaron who performed the priestly duties in the temple.
Bread and Wine anyone?
Both bread and wine were staple foods in Israel and were considered as blessings from God in Deuteronomy 7:13, 14:23. However wine is Haram or forbidden in Islam.
But what about Abraham?
Genesis 14 tells the story about Abraham who was successful in battle being attended to by the High Priest Melchizedek who served the bread and wine and blessed Abraham with the words:
“Blessed be Abram by God most High, maker of Heaven and Earth”.
So wine was not forbidden for Abraham!
And of course, Jesus offered the bread and wine to his disciples to commemorate his new covenant at the Last Supper before his crucifixion. [Matthew 26:26-29].
Jesus of course to Christians was the perfect sacrificial lamb who was crucified at the Jewish Passover.
The wine represents his sacred blood, and it was the blood of the sacrificial lamb sprinkled above the door that saved the firstborn of Israel in Egypt. Islam does not recognize the Jewish Passover festival.
Did Abraham come from Ur or out of a Fire?
History tells us that Abram was born in the town of Ur but later decided to travel to Haran where he received a calling from God.
However the Quran has an interesting account of how Allah saved Abraham after he had been thrown into a fire.
The story is given in Sura 21:51-71.
Abraham confronts his people and his father because of the many idols which they worship. After an argument between Abraham and the people, they depart and Abraham breaks the smaller idols, leaving the larger ones intact. When the people see this they call Abraham and ask if he is responsible, to which he replies that it must have been the larger idols which did the destruction. He challenges them to ask the larger idols to find out, to which they reply, "Thou knowest full well that these (idols) do not speak!" (aya 65). He gives a taunting retort, and they then throw him into a fire. But in aya 69 Allah commands the fire to be cool, making it safe for Abraham, and he miraculously walks out unscathed.
There are no parallels to this story in our Bible. There is a parallel, however, in a second century book of Jewish folktales called The Midrash Rabbah. In this account Abraham breaks all the idols except the biggest one. His father and the others challenged him on this, and with an added bit of humour, which is missing in the Qur'anic account, Abraham responds by saying that he had given the biggest idol an ox for all the idols to eat, but because the smaller idols went ahead and ate, they thus did not show respect. The bigger idol consequently smashed the smaller idols. The enraged father did not believe Abraham's account, and so took him to a man named Nimrod, who simply threw him into a fire. But God made it cool for him and he walked out unscathed.
The similarity between these two stories is quite unmistakable. A second century Jewish fable, a folklore, and myth is repeated in the "holy Qur'an." It is quite evident that Muhammad or another author heard this story from the Jews, but because he could not read their books, though he had heard snatches of the Biblical narratives, from visiting Jews, or even his wives, he simply assumed they came from the same source, and unwittingly wrote Jewish folklore into his Qur'an.
In Genesis 15:7, the Lord tells Abraham that it was He who brought Abraham out of Ur of the Chaldeans. Ur is a place, also mentioned in Genesis 11:31. We have evidence that a Jewish scribe named Jonathan Ben Uziel mistook the Hebrew word "Ur" for the Hebrew word which means "fire." Thus in his commentary of this verse he writes, "I am the Lord who brought you out of the fire of the Chaldeans."
Consequently, because of this misunderstanding, and because of a misreading of the Biblical verse a fable became popular around this era, which stated that God had brought Abraham out of the fire.
Conclusion
Muslims are migrating to western countries in ever increasing numbers. They demand superiority even though they claim to worship the same God as the Jew and Christian. They believe that Allah has given them everything we own. They take over our churches and convert them to mosques. They even take over our cemeteries and turn them into Muslim only burial grounds. In the Quran, they have altered the story of Abraham, have changed the teachings of Moses with Mohammed breaking the Ten Commandments and they have distorted the teachings of Jesus. They claim that the Quran is the unaltered word of Allah and is preserved in stone tablets in Heaven. [Sura 85:21,22] However which version is in Heaven? The one completed by Caliph Uthman, or is it the one from the Sa’na mosque in Yemen or is it the version we read today?
It is very clear that Muslims can’t claim the moral high ground here as the Quran has obviously undergone progressive development, even to including Jewish apocryphal material from the second century.
Before we answer the question as to whether Islam is an Abrahamic faith, we should summarize our findings.
(1) Both Jew and Christian worship a God called WHYH but Islam worship Allah, and WHYH is NOT Allah;
(2) Temple worship is different and the direction of prayer is only significant to a Muslim;
(3) The shrine to the prophet of Allah known as the Dome of the Rock is an Abomination that Desolates to WHYH;
(4) The promise of WHYH comes through the seed of Isaac and not Ishmael;
(5) Church and state are separated for Judaism and Christianity, whereas Islam is totalitarian with no separation;
(6) Wine is important in sacred practices in both Judaism and Christianity and is not banned in the secular sense, but wine is forbidden (haram) in Islam;
From the above we can only conclude that:
1. WHYH is not the same God as Allah, and
2. Islam is NOT Abrahamic in the sense that Judaism and Christianity are.
Action Required
I believe it is imperative to stop Muslims from referring to Islam as another Abrahamic faith (because quite clearly it is not) and also it should be made clear that Allah is NOT the same as the God of the Bible.
Wouldn’t that liven up Interfaith meetings?
When you buy halal products, you are financing inhumaely slaughter and torture of animals
Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:14 pm » by Sevens
its all confused information because its man produced and changed to suit at a time of war to spur the soilders at the time, I wouldnt worry about it. Probably a blinding factor where you are not able to recognize things due to it bias and prejudice that is bred in these religions, full of malice, fear and judgement over others. Hollow and shallow by the fruits and the words coming out of people.
I mean in this event, its all inspired in the name of there God in order to justify death and destruction and stealing COWS, In Gods name, this how pathetic it all is. This is how stupid, dumb and evil there religion in the fruits has become and at the same time they cannot demonstrate a scrap of truth.. Not one ounce of truth in the fruits and witness throughout the world.
They try to rope you in there religion under false pretenses, a religion you cannot escape. What a snare man!!
I could never or even consider being a menber of that religion if that what it does to people at the end and looking at all the spiritual mischeviousness throughout the world.
Islam is in huge trouble including all its members in the judgement of others where they have huge logs in there own eye and unable to demonstrate the truth peacefully without impositiion over others by fear and no fruits.
I thank the Lord I know the truth from the beginning and the difference.
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatches/gl ... ting-worse
I mean in this event, its all inspired in the name of there God in order to justify death and destruction and stealing COWS, In Gods name, this how pathetic it all is. This is how stupid, dumb and evil there religion in the fruits has become and at the same time they cannot demonstrate a scrap of truth.. Not one ounce of truth in the fruits and witness throughout the world.
They try to rope you in there religion under false pretenses, a religion you cannot escape. What a snare man!!
I could never or even consider being a menber of that religion if that what it does to people at the end and looking at all the spiritual mischeviousness throughout the world.
Islam is in huge trouble including all its members in the judgement of others where they have huge logs in there own eye and unable to demonstrate the truth peacefully without impositiion over others by fear and no fruits.
I thank the Lord I know the truth from the beginning and the difference.
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatches/gl ... ting-worse
Last edited by Sevens on Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:22 pm » by Sevens
You shouldnt be worshipping rocks but things that are real, like the demonstrated truth and whats behind it with the Father in Heaven or Paradise. Not a rock but the truth of the Rock of all Ages.
I am so glad I dont have to fear people with the truth.
I am so glad I dont have to fear people with the truth.
Last edited by Sevens on Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:38 pm » by Sevens
Islam will not be able to demonstrate the truth at the end, impossible by the attitude in self blindness. Unable to correct itself because of there self pride and false machinations.. You show me why should anyone join Islam looking at the fruits!
Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:46 pm » by Sevens
All you guys full of judgement have spoilt your religion, you have made it ugly by the witness. You cant even read a new revelation that takes all man to the beginning with God of all in demonstration of truth.
Christanity is far better equipped with the truth to realise greater truth as I have witnessed. Even an Iranian atheist can be led to Eden and be the discoverer of it, walking with the Father in Heaven. Islam cannot even demonstrate that and yet the Urantia Book can do all the things Islam cannot, Imagine an Iranian ex atheist being the spear head as the discoverer of 1st Eden. hahaha that is just amazing.
Thats what God can do in the witness where no one got hurt and not a word of malice and hatred was expressed.
All those videos are rubbish compared to the real witness of the planet and which leads and stems from the beginning.
You know the religion of 1st Eden is the fastest growing religion in the world to the point where I say, stay in your religion but elevate what you have and we have a new revelation.
Christanity is far better equipped with the truth to realise greater truth as I have witnessed. Even an Iranian atheist can be led to Eden and be the discoverer of it, walking with the Father in Heaven. Islam cannot even demonstrate that and yet the Urantia Book can do all the things Islam cannot, Imagine an Iranian ex atheist being the spear head as the discoverer of 1st Eden. hahaha that is just amazing.
Thats what God can do in the witness where no one got hurt and not a word of malice and hatred was expressed.
All those videos are rubbish compared to the real witness of the planet and which leads and stems from the beginning.
You know the religion of 1st Eden is the fastest growing religion in the world to the point where I say, stay in your religion but elevate what you have and we have a new revelation.
Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:03 pm » by Constabul
Evidence that Islam and Abraham are linked.
The Hajj.
Consult the story of the building of the Kaaba for additional information.
Any pretense otherwise is disinformation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajj
This topic should be in hoax and disinformation.
The Hajj.
Consult the story of the building of the Kaaba for additional information.
Any pretense otherwise is disinformation.
The Hajj is based on a pilgrimage that was ancient even in the time of Muhammad in the 7th Century. According to Hadith, elements of the Hajj trace back to the time of Abraham (Ibrahim), around 2000 BCE. Abraham's wife, Sarah, was unable to conceive, and upon her request, Abraham had taken their female servant, Hagar, as a second wife. Hagar bore Abraham a son, Ishmael. It is believed that Abraham was ordered by God to leave Hagar (Hājar) and Ishmael (ʼIsmāʻīl) alone in the desert. Looking for shelter, food and water, Hagar ran back and forth between the hills of Safa and Marwa seven times with her son. In desperation, she laid the baby on the sand and begged for God's assistance. The baby cried and hit the ground with his heel (some versions of the story say that the angel Gabriel (Jibral) scraped his foot or the tip of his wing along the ground), and the Zamzam Well miraculously sprang forth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajj
This topic should be in hoax and disinformation.
Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:19 pm » by Abdul14
the muslim hadith can say whatever it wants man i dont take non of it seriously, the data in the bible clearly contradicts all of it
one might as well believe the fly'n donkey bollox
one might as well believe the fly'n donkey bollox
When you buy halal products, you are financing inhumaely slaughter and torture of animals
Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:22 pm » by Noentry
constabul wrote:Evidence that Islam and Abraham are linked.
The Hajj.
Consult the story of the building of the Kaaba for additional information.
Any pretense otherwise is disinformation.The Hajj is based on a pilgrimage that was ancient even in the time of Muhammad in the 7th Century. According to Hadith, elements of the Hajj trace back to the time of Abraham (Ibrahim), around 2000 BCE. Abraham's wife, Sarah, was unable to conceive, and upon her request, Abraham had taken their female servant, Hagar, as a second wife. Hagar bore Abraham a son, Ishmael. It is believed that Abraham was ordered by God to leave Hagar (Hājar) and Ishmael (ʼIsmāʻīl) alone in the desert. Looking for shelter, food and water, Hagar ran back and forth between the hills of Safa and Marwa seven times with her son. In desperation, she laid the baby on the sand and begged for God's assistance. The baby cried and hit the ground with his heel (some versions of the story say that the angel Gabriel (Jibral) scraped his foot or the tip of his wing along the ground), and the Zamzam Well miraculously sprang forth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajj
This topic should be in hoax and disinformation.
Well done
That put an end to that myth
I am aware it's often a thankless task persuading someone on a forum that they are mistaken. They are often, in the true sense of the word, bigots!
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