Jesus did not die on cross, says scholar

[Abyssdnb Profile]

The legend of his execution is based on the traditions of the Christian church and artistic illustrations rather than antique texts, according to theologian Gunnar Samuelsson.

He claims the Bible has been misinterpreted as there are no explicit references the use of nails or to crucifixion - only that Jesus bore a "staurus" towards Calvary which is not necessarily a cross but can also mean a "pole".
Mr Samuelsson, who has written a 400-page thesis after studying the original texts, said: "The problem is descriptions of crucifixions are remarkably absent in the antique literature.

"The sources where you would expect to find support for the established understanding of the event really don't say anything."

The ancient Greek, Latin and Hebrew literature from Homer to the first century AD describe an arsenal of suspension punishments but none mention "crosses" or "crucifixion."

Mr Samuelsson, of Gothenburg University, said: "Consequently, the contemporary understanding of crucifixion as a punishment is severely challenged.

"And what's even more challenging is the same can be concluded about the accounts of the crucifixion of Jesus. The New Testament doesn't say as much as we'd like to believe."

Any evidence that Jesus was left to die after being nailed to a cross is strikingly sparse - both in the ancient pre-Christian and extra-Biblical literature as well as The Bible.

Mr Samuelsson, a committed Christian himself, admitted his claims are so close to the heart of his faith that it is easy to react emotionally instead of logically.

Mr Samuelsson said the actual execution texts do not describe how Christ was attached to the execution device.

He said: "This is the heart of the problem. The text of the passion narratives is not that exact and information loaded, as we Christians sometimes want it to be."

Mr Samuelsson said: "If you are looking for texts that depict the act of nailing persons to a cross you will not find any beside the Gospels."

A lot of contemporary literature all use the same vague terminology - including the Latin accounts.

Nor does the Latin word crux automatically refer to a cross while patibulum refer to the cross-beam. Both words are used in a wider sense that that.

Mr Samuelsson said: "That a man named Jesus existed in that part of the world and in that time is well-documented. He left a rather good foot-print in the literature of the time.

"I do believe that the mentioned man is the son of God. My suggestion is not that Christians should reject or doubt the biblical text.

"My suggestion is that we should read the text as it is, not as we think it is. We should read on the lines, not between the lines. The text of the Bible is sufficient. We do not need to add anything."

[Harryjackson Profile]

The legend of his execution is based on the traditions of the Christian church and artistic illustrations rather than antique texts, according to theologian Gunnar Samuelsson.

He claims the Bible has been misinterpreted as there are no explicit references the use of nails or to crucifixion - only that Jesus bore a "staurus" towards Calvary which is not necessarily a cross but can also mean a "pole".
Mr Samuelsson, who has written a 400-page thesis after studying the original texts, said: "The problem is descriptions of crucifixions are remarkably absent in the antique literature.

"The sources where you would expect to find support for the established understanding of the event really don't say anything."

The ancient Greek, Latin and Hebrew literature from Homer to the first century AD describe an arsenal of suspension punishments but none mention "crosses" or "crucifixion."

Mr Samuelsson, of Gothenburg University, said: "Consequently, the contemporary understanding of crucifixion as a punishment is severely challenged.

"And what's even more challenging is the same can be concluded about the accounts of the crucifixion of Jesus. The New Testament doesn't say as much as we'd like to believe."

Any evidence that Jesus was left to die after being nailed to a cross is strikingly sparse - both in the ancient pre-Christian and extra-Biblical literature as well as The Bible.

Mr Samuelsson, a committed Christian himself, admitted his claims are so close to the heart of his faith that it is easy to react emotionally instead of logically.

Mr Samuelsson said the actual execution texts do not describe how Christ was attached to the execution device.

He said: "This is the heart of the problem. The text of the passion narratives is not that exact and information loaded, as we Christians sometimes want it to be."

Mr Samuelsson said: "If you are looking for texts that depict the act of nailing persons to a cross you will not find any beside the Gospels."

A lot of contemporary literature all use the same vague terminology - including the Latin accounts.

Nor does the Latin word crux automatically refer to a cross while patibulum refer to the cross-beam. Both words are used in a wider sense that that.

Mr Samuelsson said: "That a man named Jesus existed in that part of the world and in that time is well-documented. He left a rather good foot-print in the literature of the time.

"I do believe that the mentioned man is the son of God. My suggestion is not that Christians should reject or doubt the biblical text.

"My suggestion is that we should read the text as it is, not as we think it is. We should read on the lines, not between the lines. The text of the Bible is sufficient. We do not need to add anything."

"My suggestion is that we should read the text as it is, not as we think it is. We should read on the lines, not between the lines. The text of the Bible is sufficient. We do not need to add anything."

True.read it then You must decide what you take from it.

[Septeloid Profile]

"I do believe that the mentioned man is the son of God. My suggestion is not that Christians should reject or doubt the biblical text.

"My suggestion is that we should read the text as it is, not as we think it is. We should read on the lines, not between the lines. The text of the Bible is sufficient. We do not need to add anything."

The fact that Jesus Christ died on the cross is central to the Christian faith. It is impossible for Christians to accept that this did not happen and remain a Christian.

So you either believe it or you are not a Christian anymore.

[Skybetcam Profile]

Jesus who? Cross? Must have missed something me!!
Ahhh - that fiction stuff...

[Mediasorcerer Profile]

WHAT DO YOU MEAN ,ESSENTIAL TO THE CHRISTIAN FAITH TO BELIEVE A FUKING LIE,GET OVER IT,I SAID THIS MNTHS AGO,HE WAS TEID TO A STAKE,STOROS IS GREEK FOR STAKE=POLE,SO FUKIN WAT,JUST SHOWS WAT A BUNCH OF BRAINWASHED GULLIBLES THEY ARE,WEN THE EVIDENCE IS THERE THEY STILL DENY IT,LOL

[Highbridge Profile]

There is an old tradition in Japan about Jesus' grave being there. Here is just some info about it if no one has ever heard about this...

http://www.japantoday.com/category/comm ... ori-really

Jesus Christ lived in Aomori - really?
By Kaz Morran

An active conspiracy theory that rivals the revelations of “The Da Vinci Code” awaits visitors to the sleepy village of Shingo, between Hachinohe and Lake Towada in Aomori Prefecture. Every year in June, a ceremony unlike any other in Japan awakens Shingo (called “Herai” in times long ago) and women in kimono dance around the grave of Jesus Christ. Yep, THE Jesus Christ.
You didn’t know? You can visit his grave in a beautiful park in Aomori. But, behold, there is a lot more to this legend. Back in 1935, a well-known researcher dug up some ancient scriptures in Herai. They were written in Hebrew and supposedly signed by none other than the man, Jesus Christ, himself. These scripture allege that Jesus came to Herai when he was 21 to study religion for 12 years. Then he returned to Judea to teach everyone what he had learned in Japan.
As the story goes, people there didn’t agree with what he was trying to preach and arrested him. It seems however, that here’s where the story takes a twist. Jesus managed to escape crucifixion by having his little brother take his place on the cross. Jesus had a brother? You ask. Apparently so. The real Jesus did a bit of backpacking, then came back to Japan where he settled down in Herai. He married a Japanese woman named Miyu and became a rice farmer. His gravesite marks the end of his 106-year life (or 118 according to some people). His brother’s grave sits comfortably beside Jesus’ grave.
The burial mounds were done in a way that is consistent with how the tombs of important figures of that time were buried at the time. Nearby are the grave sites of the Sawaguchi family. According to the Hebrew writings, the Sawaguchis, who continue to live in the area, are the true descendants of Christ. Indeed, photos of them and their ancestors reveal faces obviously different that typical Japanese. They are taller, their noses longer, and their skin lighter than others in the village.
The family emblem of the Sawaguchis marks the outside of their present home in the village. It is a star, remarkably similar to the Star of David. As if to fuel the legend, in 2004, the ambassador of Israel visited Shingo and donated a plaque, written in Hebrew.
The meanings of the words chanted by those who perform the annual ceremony have long since been forgotten by locals. However, it is an old Hebrew tongue, and some parts sound familiar such as the word “Nazareth.” Furthermore, the name Herai is likely derived from the ancient “Hebron,” or home of the Hebrews. Some documents refer to the village as New Herai.
Also of interest is that linguistics experts say the Japanese language has several words that bear remarkable similarities to the Hebrew language. They are puzzled at how this could have happened since there is no historical connection between Japan and ancient Israel. Or is there? Other legends say that a lone man arrived by boat one day, long, long ago, from exactly that area of the world, he spoke Hebrew, and taught locals many things.
There exists today a very unique custom in Shingo. When a new baby comes into the world, a cross is drawn upon its forehead. Locals do not know why, but like many Japanese customs it is followed merely out of respect for tradition.
The Christ Tomb museum has many other artifacts of local traditions such as unique clothing and weaved baskets that are oddly similar to those in ancient Israel.

[Septeloid Profile]

WHAT DO YOU MEAN ,ESSENTIAL TO THE CHRISTIAN FAITH TO BELIEVE A FUKING LIE,GET OVER IT,I SAID THIS MNTHS AGO,HE WAS TEID TO A STAKE,STOROS IS GREEK FOR STAKE=POLE,SO FUKIN WAT,JUST SHOWS WAT A BUNCH OF BRAINWASHED GULLIBLES THEY ARE,WEN THE EVIDENCE IS THERE THEY STILL DENY IT,LOL

Learning to type and spell correctly will give you credibility and might make people take you seriously.

[Bradwatson Profile]

The fact that Jesus Christ died on the cross is central to the Christian faith. It is impossible for Christians to accept that this did not happen and remain a Christian. So you either believe it or you are not a Christian anymore.

septeloid (what does that mean?),

Are you the judge of who is Christian and who is not? NO. You are quite WRONG about your conclusions. The fact that Jesus taught what he did is central to the Christian faith. He was NOT born of a virgin - that is a mistranslation - he was born of "a young women" is simply the correct translation that one finds in Isaiah in Jewish Bibles. Being born of a virgin was a myth that existed in the Hellenistic Roman culture before Y'shua74 ben Yosef was born. It's quite possible for Christians and non-Christians to accept this because it's the truth! Likewise, there were myths about other man-gods that circulated throughout other cultures, i.e. Osiris74, Zoroaster, Mithras, etc. that invloved dying and resurrecting three days later. This always happened at spring time when nature was resurrected after winter's end.

The reason that the Gospels (and other sources) don't go into great detail about the crucifixion is twofold: (1) It is so widely known it wasn't necessary and (2) this was the Roman Empire's greatest weapon74 against sedition. Anything and everything that was written during Jesus'74 time was greatly scrutinized. If it opposed the Romans, after writing it, you'd have to immediately bury it. The fact that the Gospels saw the light of day and were circulated at all is quite the miracle! But take a second look at them and you'll find that they are full of Roman propaganda! "Render to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's". In other words, "Pay your taxes to Roma and we don't care what else you do as long as it doesn't involve trying to free yourselves from Roman rule". The Gospel74s make it seem like the Roman leaders weren't responsible for crucifying the Jewish74 Messiah74. Ya, right.

Jesus dragging a full cross down the Via Dolorosa is unlikely. There are many depictions of him dragging a crossbar - a pole - and then having that attached to an existing upright pole to complete a cross74.The definition of 'death' is 'final'. IESVS74 didn't die on the Cross74, he appeared dead and lived through it. Since 1974, we've had many documented cases of 'near-death-experiences'. Joshua74 had the world's most famous example of a near-death-experience. (When I wrote this on 1/12/10 on GodlikeProductions.com, that is when the Earthquake struck Haiti.) It is quite simple for Christians and non-Christians to accept this since it is the truth.

- Brad Watson, Miami, FL
(my 88th post)

[Mediasorcerer Profile]

to dear septeloid-its my message i care about ,not the spelling or typing,how shallow,
its obvious the similarities between buddhism and christianity are profound,
and by the way,you obviously have no idea what a true christian is,if you think what makes a true christian is following some dogma in a book,then you have learnt nothing from jesus,except to repeat what you are told,
what made jesus special was the fact that he was an independent thinker,a worker of the light[chakra healing-palmer and plantar cakra healing-ie the oil for the feet and the hands in preying position!!!]and acted in accordance with his heart,squabbling about the finer points or historical/non-historical concepts in the bible has nothing to do with behaving in a fashion that is relative to being a true christian,one needs to know nothing about jesus or the bible to be a true christian,its all in a humans thoughts and deeds,not crapping on about scripture!!!!!if jesus was alive today and saw what was being sold as his teachings these day,he would go in and kick all the bs religious liars arseholes,

[Septeloid Profile]

Ok guys, maybe I got out of bed from the wrong side this morning.

I was merely pointing out that the vast majority of Christians would not accept that Jesus did not die on a cross. The cross is 'the' symbol of the Christian faith.

In the 21st century a comprehensive review of traditional Christian dogma is absolutely needed. The Christian Church will not survive for much longer preaching a 2000 year old worlwide view and expect to have a meaningful influence in today's society.

I grew up as a member of a certain Christian Church but would now class myself as a self-exiled Christian for this very reason.

However, because people are ignorant or blind to truth, or at the very least not open to other possibilities, and cannot see past their noses, the very thought of Jesus not dying on the cross would be devastating to them and their faith.

Peace.