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 Post subject: Re: Last Nazi trial: why we must listen
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:40 pm 
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Demjanjuk wasn´t hung in Israel, so sis new trial in Germany is in fact a farce and completely polemic.

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 Post subject: Re: Last Nazi trial: why we must listen
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:21 pm 
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Just my opinion but I think the guy's full of shite about his illness. I think it's an act. I'm sure he's old and tired but wasn't there a picture of him walking out of a car recently? Next thing you know he looks like death warmed up.

I'm not too sure, after all this time, if you can ever be sure about what really happened such a long time ago and it would be a shame if he wasn't the main man but was convicted to keep people happy. Not too sure about this one.

How did he manage to get off with it in Israel and what new evidence has come to light which was missing before? The following statement too is, I think, the wrong way to look at the law.

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Sure, until the charge is herding 30,000 Jews into the gas chambers, then instinct wants the defendant locked up, reasonable doubt be damned.


If he did it, jail him. If not, he and his family should be compensated.

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 Post subject: Re: Last Nazi trial: why we must listen
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:55 pm 
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Just my opinion but I think the guy's full of shite about his illness. I think it's an act. I'm sure he's old and tired but wasn't there a picture of him walking out of a car recently? Next thing you know he looks like death warmed up.


I saw the same footage of him walking about. I think that is why they say he is fit to stand trial.
IMO he is feigning illness for compassion and leniency.

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 Post subject: Re: Last Nazi trial: why we must listen
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:08 pm 
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ogmios wrote:
Just my opinion but I think the guy's full of shite about his illness. I think it's an act. I'm sure he's old and tired but wasn't there a picture of him walking out of a car recently? Next thing you know he looks like death warmed up.


funny that you say that cause when he was trailed in israel he also looked
half dead , many people said back then this guy is half foot in the grave whats the point
convicting him , and yet he still alive more then 15 years later .

ogmios wrote:
I'm not too sure, after all this time, if you can ever be sure about what really happened such a long time ago and it would be a shame if he wasn't the main man but was convicted to keep people happy. Not too sure about this one.

How did he manage to get off with it in Israel and what new evidence has come to light which was missing before? The following statement too is, I think, the wrong way to look at the law.

Quote:
Sure, until the charge is herding 30,000 Jews into the gas chambers, then instinct wants the defendant locked up, reasonable doubt be damned.


If he did it, jail him. If not, he and his family should be compensated.


well he was released in israel on technical legal issues , the charges against
him where that he was Ivan the terrible from treblinka death camp , they didn't
manage to prove that charge beyond doubt so they released him , but they did
manage to prove he was guard in at other death camps , but since that wasn't
part of the original charge they had to let him go .

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 Post subject: Re: Last Nazi trial: why we must listen
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:48 am 
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For those of you who would like to develop an informed opinion on the Demjanjuk case, read on... If you blindly accept what the PTB and media tell you, this post is not for you.

I'm posting a letter below which sums up his defense. But for details, including claims and documentation of falsified evidence, this site http://members.fortunecity.com/zuzak/ar ... icles.html is a good starting point.

The following letter is archived at http://members.fortunecity.com/zuzak/20 ... rkel2.html

The author has spent hundreds, if not thousands of hours studying the case.

The Honourable Angela Merkel
Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany
Bundeskanzleramt
Willy-Brandt-Straße 1
10557 Berlin, Germany
+49 (0)180 272 00 00

via Email: internetpost@bpa.bund.de
http://www.bundeskanzlerin.de/Webs/BK/D ... ntakt.html


Date: 25 November 2009

Dear Chancellor Merkel:

This open letter to you and to the German people has been prompted by the rather plaintive plea of the Human Rights Committee of the Ukrainian World Congress (UWC) asking you to ensure that the prosecution of John Demjanjuk in a German court “not turn into a show trial intended to spill blame for the Holocaust on non-Germans, and we appeal to you to make a public statement to this effect.”

This letter dated 15 July 2009 is archived at the UWC website at
http://www.ukrainianworldcongress.org/c ... index.html

The history of the John Demjanjuk case is replete with geopolitical intrigue, judicial misconduct, disinformation and outright deceit. There is a direct connection to the KGB and the on-going Soviet efforts to discredit the Ukrainian Diaspora -- its promotion of Ukrainian independence, its steadfast anti-Communism and the eyewitness accounts of the genocidal policies of the Soviet regime.

Criminality of the OSI

In 1974 KGB operative and editor of the communistic New York-based Ukrainian Daily News, Michael Hanusiak travelled to Moscow and was given a list of Ukrainian names targeted by the KGB (including Demjanjuk), which he sent to the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) in 1975. The Holtzman Amendment facilitated the creation of the Office of Special Investigations (OSI), which has operated as a rogue element within the U.S. Department of Justice from its very inception. By January 1980, while the rest of America was boycotting the Moscow Winter Olympics because of the Russian invasion of Afghanistan, Allan Ryan and Walter Rockler of the OSI were in Moscow meeting with Aleksandr Rekunkov and Roman Rudenko -- the chief Soviet prosecutor at the infamous Nurnberg War Crimes trials, as well as the Soviet show trials of the 1930s.

Contrary to the official policy of the United States towards the Soviet Union at that time, this unfortunate meeting facilitated the use of Soviet-supplied evidence in future OSI prosecutions and placed American justice at the mercy of KGB manipulation. That the OGPU/NKVD/KGB utilized torture to obtain false confessions from targeted individuals is a historical fact. From the time of Lenin through the Holodomor, the Great Terror, World War Two, the Ukrainian Partisan Army Insurgency and even the Dissident era from the 1960’s intimidation, threats and torture were utilized by the repressive organs of the Soviet Union. Even in the 1990’s, when naive Canadian judges travelled to Ukraine to interview eyewitnesses under the direction of and preparation by former-KGB personnel, several of these witnesses later recanted their testimony after recounting their “preparation” and expressed surprise and disgust that Canadian authorities would side with their tormentors.

By the time that John Demjanjuk was exonerated of the charges against him by the Israeli Supreme Court on 29 July 1993, it had become obvious that:
- the OSI had withheld exculpatory evidence from the defense;
- Norman Moscowitz had suborned perjury with respect to the Otto Horn testimony;
- OSI failed to disclose an interview with Jacob Reimer, who presumably served as a clerical official at Trawniki;
- OSI investigators George Garand and Bernard Dougherty swore affidavits for the Israeli prosecution which differed substantially and contradicted their initial reports of the Otto Horn meeting;
- OSI superiors ignored a memo by George Parker (their employee) expressing grave doubts about the conflicting evidence and questioning the ethics of proceeding with the Demjanjuk case;
- Israeli investigator Mariam Radiwker had performed suggestive photo-spreads and identification procedures to induce survivors to identify Mr. Demjanjuk;
- the Jewish Nazi collaborators who identified Mr. Demjanjuk during the Jerusalem trial were obviously lying;
- KGB operative Armand Hammer had spirited Trawniki ID 1393 and (presumably) three other ID cards to the Israeli prosecution -- bypassing regular diplomatic channels.

It is small wonder that the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals subsequently ruled that the OSI was guilty of prosecutorial misconduct constituting fraud on the court in obtaining the 1981 denaturalization of Mr. Demjanjuk and his 1986 extradition to Israel. Obviously, any pronouncements and conclusions from these tainted proceedings cannot be utilized by the German courts and any evidence supplied by the OSI must be treated as suspect. The German courts must not legitimize the criminality of the OSI.

Trawniki ID 1393 card

Once again , it was the KGB via Michael Hanusiak in 1975 that publicized the Trawniki ID card, which purportedly indicates that Mr. Demjanjuk was sent from Trawniki to Sobibor on 27 March 1943. Photographs of the card, the picture thereon and the name Ivan Demjanjuk spread like wildfire throughout the Jewish community. By the fall of 1976 Mariam Radiwker had induced several survivors to identify Mr. Demjanjuk to have been in Treblinka; but no one identified him as being in Sobibor.

The 1981 denaturalization trial started with only photostatic copies of the card available. Unexpectedly, the Soviets allowed experts for the prosecution and defense to examine it at their Embassy and made it available to Judge Battisti for one morning session. For the Jerusalem trial, the card was allegedly delivered by Armand Hammer and three other similar cards appeared mysteriously mid-trial. No expert has ever authenticated the Demjanjuk signature (in green, iron-free ink). Julius Grant, expert witness for the defense at the Jerusalem trial, categorically stated that the signature was forged.

A large number of people have examined copies of these cards and have detected an enormous number of discrepancies, [2] which indicate that the card is fraudulent -- there is no date and DIN number, the format is wrong, the stamps are wrong, obsolete type is used, some letters are hand-made, the German grammar and spelling is atrocious. Various other similar cards have appeared that differ from the original. Even the prosecution in the second 2001 Demjanjuk denaturalization trial admitted that there were at least two sets of these cards.

One of the main problems with these cards is that there is no chain of custody. No one seems to know where they came from, where they were, what was done to them and by whom and when. During World War Two there were countless false and forged documents created by various spy agencies, by criminal organizations, by individuals trying to survive. This is exemplified by the famous Red Orchestra led by Leopold Trepper, which infiltrated German organizations to provide information to Soviet intelligence on the German war effort. The Jewish underground operatives were masters at providing false documents for their members.

The logical procedure to unravel the origin and validity or non-validity of these documents would be for the German courts to make coloured, high-resolution digital photographs of them, post them on a government web site and invite independent experts to examine them. Doubtless, a large number of discrepancies would be detected and many of them resolved.

Legal standing for affected groups

The German news media has reported that 35 “survivors” have obtained “standing” [3] and have arranged for lawyers to represent them and assist the prosecution at the trial scheduled to commence on 30 November 2009. There are several Ukrainian organizations that should also have standing in the court.

This would include the Ukrainian World Congress, which must ensure that past and present Soviet/Russian efforts directed at the suppression of Ukrainian independence and discrediting the Ukrainian Diaspora as anti-semitic nationalists and Nazi collaborators are exposed. The Ukrainophobia expressed in previous Demjanjuk trials must not be repeated in German courts.

The Ukrainian Canadian Congress (UCC) also has a vested interest at being represented at the Munich trial. The initial 1981 Demjanjuk denaturalization trial spilled over into Canada with wild claims of thousands of “Nazi war criminals” living in Canada, the establishment of the Deschenes Commission, passage of retroactive legislation to allow prosecution of alleged war criminals in criminal courts, creation of Canada’s War Crimes Unit, failure to convict Imre Finta, abandonment of the criminal process and its replacement with the civil denaturalization and deportation process exactly as with John Demjanjuk in the United States. All these developments relate to the upcoming trial in Munich.
[W. Z. See also ../Geocities/index.html and ../Geocities/letters/mclellan003.html ]

In addition, many other countries in Eastern Europe would be well-advised to seek standing at the Munich trial. Estonians, Latvians and Lithuanians and other nationalities were also targeted by the KGB-sponsored “Nazi collaborator” campaign. As with Ukraine, the present Putin/Medvedev regime in Moscow continues to challenge the legitimacy of these countries and refuses to acknowledge the Stalinist crimes inflicted upon their citizens.

It would be in the interests of German and world society, if the German government would encourage and assist (both administratively and financially) these various organizations and countries to obtain legal standing at the Munich trial. German taxpayers have paid billions of Deutschmarks to Holocaust survivors and toward prosecution of Nazis within Germany. This has resulted in a distorted view of the realities of World War Two -- the Jewish perspective is reinforced, while the perspective of others is downplayed or suppressed. One would hope that all aspects of crimes during WW2 could be examined.

German victimhood

Throughout my life here in Canada, I have been constantly amazed at how Germans have been vilified as a result of WW1 and WW2 and how ethnic Germans have meekly submitted to such categorization. I suspect that the psyche of Germans -- both in Germany and the Diaspora -- has been badly scarred. It seems that Germans are not even allowed to pray for the souls of their dead.

The reality is that throughout the twentieth century Germans were as much victims as victimizers. But does the world recognize this? Do Germans mourn the victims of the firebombing of Dresden and Hamburg? Or the massacre of surrendering German soldiers in Munich by the Americans? Or the POW death pits organized by General Eisenhower? Or the genocidal ethnic cleansing of Germans from the Danzig/Gdansk area? Or the rape of some two million German women by the oncoming Red Army as it invaded Germany? Or the torture of German personnel to encourage their confessions for the Nurnberg War Crimes Trials? Have German courts examined these atrocities? Has anyone been charged?

Holodomor

As a Canadian of Ukrainian origin, I am particularly concerned that Germany has declined to recognize the Holodomor -- the 1932-33 famine orchestrated by Stalin, which claimed the lives of some 7 to 10 million Ukrainians -- as genocide. Are Germans aware that over one million inhabitants in the Volga German Republic and in German settlements in Southern Russia and Southern Ukraine were decimated? Was this not deliberate genocide? There were a large number of articles in the German newspapers at that time. Large numbers of heart-rending letters from starving Germans were received. Ewald Ammende even wrote a book on the subject. Will Germans not even pray for the souls of their own kinsmen?

World Geopolitics

The John Demjanjuk case, stretching for almost 35 years now, is the most politicized case in the history of mankind. He has become a pawn in the intrigues of the power elites in the world today. He is the litmus test to indicate who holds the real power.

Israel uses this case as a tool to promote and publicize the Holocaust and to combat “Holocaust revisionists”; to elicit sympathy and money from individuals and governments; to influence and control the judicial systems within various countries; and to prevent criticism of Israel’s ongoing genocide of the Palestinian people.

The justice system of the United States as represented by the OSI has a vested interest to legitimize its criminal handling of the Demjanjuk case.

The Russian Federation will continue to justify its genocidal anti-Ukrainian policies of the past with the hopes of re-incorporating Ukraine within its empire, while at the same time dangling the image of endless gas supplies to Germany. Once again, as at the time of the Holodomor, the prospect of lucrative business dealings with Russia will likely overcome any German qualms about human rights and human lives.

And once again, Germany appears willing to sell its soul to appease the United States/Israel on one side and the Russian Federation on the other side. Mr. Demjanjuk and Ukraine are to be the sacrificial lambs.

To all the people, who have been involved in the persecution of Mr. Demjanjuk, I would like to remind them of the following quotation in the past, present and future tenses: “As you do unto John Demjanjuk, so shall it be done unto you.”

Respectfully yours

William Zuzak, Ph.D., P.Eng. (retired)
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada


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