Libya: Islamist militia bases stormed in Benghazi

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PostSat Sep 22, 2012 12:14 pm » by Zegtelzegtel


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Libya: Islamist militia bases stormed in Benghazi


The violence followed a day of protests by tens of thousands of citizens demanding an end to the armed groups.
The bases include the HQ of the Islamist group Ansar al-Sharia, suspected of involvement in an attack on the US consulate in the city.

Government-backed group
Witnesses say supporters of Ansar al-Sharia lined up outside its Benghazi headquarters, in front of the crowd, waving black and white banners.

They fired into the air to try to disperse the protesters, but fled with their weapons after the base was surrounded by waves of people shouting "no to militias".


Buildings and a car were set alight and fighters evicted.

However, in a standoff outside the headquarters of the Sahaty Brigade in the city, three people were killed and at least 20 injured according to witnesses and officials.

The two sides are said to have exchanged rocket and light arms fire for two hours before the brigade decided to move out.

Protesters then set fire to one of the main buildings and pillaged a weapons depot, a journalist for AFP news agency at the scene reported.

Another person was killed and another 20 injured in other incidents, city hospitals said.

The BBC's Rana Jawad in the capital Tripoli says the Sahaty Brigade is believed to be operating under the authority of the ministry of defence.

Senior Libyan officials say that while they welcomed the protests, people should differentiate between the rogue militias and honest rebel brigades that helped to secure the town in last year's uprising against Col Muammar Gaddafi.

Earlier, some 30,000 protesters marched through Benghazi calling for an end to the armed groups and a return to the rule of law.



Libyans have seized on the chance to march against the presence of militias
There has been a wave of hostility towards the militias since US Ambassador Christopher Stevens and three others Americans died in last week's attack on the Benghazi consulate.

"I don't want to see armed men wearing Afghani-style clothes stopping me in the street to give me orders, I only want to see people in uniform," said university student Omar Mohammed, who took part in the takeover of the Ansar al-Sharia compound.

Many Libyans have expressed outrage at the attack on the US consulate.

Libya's interim government has since come under renewed and intense pressure to rein in well-armed extremist militia groups and force them to disband.

Friday's march was the largest seen in Benghazi - considered the heartland of Libya's uprising - since Col Gaddafi was deposed.

Armed militia groups which helped to defeat Gaddafi remain powerful in many parts of the country.

They are better armed and more numerous than Libya's official army, and there have been reports of militias intimidating and carrying out killings against rivals.


:arrow: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19680785


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PostSat Sep 22, 2012 12:20 pm » by Perronick


Nice update. Thanks, Zegtel.

May I recommend this thread to put this info into context? It's a long read but worthy.
benghazi-attack-libya-s-green-resistance-did-it-and-nato-p-t78589.html

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PostSat Sep 22, 2012 1:13 pm » by Zegtelzegtel


Perronick wrote:Nice update. Thanks, Zegtel.

May I recommend this thread to put this info into context? It's a long read but worthy.
benghazi-attack-libya-s-green-resistance-did-it-and-nato-p-t78589.html


reading it now thanks Perronick

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PostSat Sep 22, 2012 2:13 pm » by Phaeton


Good post Zegtel, thanks.
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PostSat Sep 22, 2012 10:45 pm » by Nihilgeist


Phaeton wrote:Good post Zegtel, thanks.



Very good post. I was actually surprised to not see you posting this. This gives me hope for humanity, at least some of humanity.
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PostSat Sep 22, 2012 11:21 pm » by Phaeton


Nihilgeist wrote:
Phaeton wrote:Good post Zegtel, thanks.



Very good post. I was actually surprised to not see you posting this. This gives me hope for humanity, at least some of humanity.


It gives you hope for humanity?! Dude, youre a joke.

And your colorful signature is a nice insight to your delusion.

Dont know what islamophobe site you got that from, but its not even remotely accurate.



9:5 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for G*d is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

9:6 If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.

9:7 How can there be a league, before G*d and His Apostle, with the Pagans, except those with whom ye made a treaty near the sacred Mosque? As long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for G*d doth love the righteous.

8:39 And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in G*d altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily G*d doth see all that they do.


60:7-8
"It may be that G*d will grant love (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies. For G*d has power (over all things), and G*d is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

G*d does not forbid you, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for G*d loves those who are just."

http://www.muslimaccess.com/quraan/arabic/009.asp



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PostSun Sep 23, 2012 12:35 am » by 99socks


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PostSun Sep 23, 2012 1:02 am » by Spock


Indeed this is great news.

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PostSun Sep 23, 2012 3:42 pm » by Nihilgeist


Phaeton wrote:
Nihilgeist wrote:
Phaeton wrote:Good post Zegtel, thanks.



Very good post. I was actually surprised to not see you posting this. This gives me hope for humanity, at least some of humanity.


It gives you hope for humanity?! Dude, youre a joke.

And your colorful signature is a nice insight to your delusion.

Dont know what islamophobe site you got that from, but its not even remotely accurate.

9:5 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for G*d is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.


http://prophetofdoom.net/Islamic_Quotes.Islam The lovely Truth - I mean Islamophobe site.
Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."


http://quran.com/9/5
Sahih International
And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

Muhsin Khan
Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikun (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat, then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Pickthall
Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Yusuf Ali
But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

Shakir
So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Dr. Ghali
So, when the prohibiting months are drawn away, (Literally: stripped away) then kill the associators wherever you find them, and take them, and detain them, and sit (in wait) for them at every place of observation (i.e., ambush). But, in case they repent, and keep up the prayer, and bring the Zakat, (i.e., pay the obligatory poor-dues) then let them go their way; (Literally: pass on their way) surely Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Ever-Merciful..



Oh I'm sorry, the islamophobe site forgot to mention that they can only kill us disbelievers once the holidays are over. Those bastards. Oh, and of course, so long as we repent and pray to Allah, we'll be ok. Once again, the Islamophobe site forgot to throw in that lovely part of bringing Zakat, or rather, ransom. I think that was covered in 'Innocence of Muslims', was it not? How accurate!!

And what pray tell do you think Pagans are? What, you think because Islam offers mercy for choosing to follow it that that's any consolation? You can take that form of Borg-like 'Mercy' and shove it up your ass. That's not religious freedom. That's the freedom to submit to Allah and Islam or die. You're sugarcoating doesn't do shit to the message displayed here. Resistance is futile. You WILL be assimilated, or you will die.


9:6 If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.


Yea, if I beg for mercy and asylum, allow me to be taken away to be indoctrinated, I'm sorry, allow me to hear the word of God, because I'm just an ignorant fool that does not know. No thanks.

9:7 How can there be a league, before G*d and His Apostle, with the Pagans, except those with whom ye made a treaty near the sacred Mosque? As long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for G*d doth love the righteous.


http://quran.com/9/7

Sahih International
How can there be for the polytheists a treaty in the sight of Allah and with His Messenger, except for those with whom you made a treaty at al-Masjid al-Haram? So as long as they are upright toward you, be upright toward them. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].

Muhsin Khan
How can there be a covenant with Allah and with His Messenger for the Mushrikun (polytheists, idolaters, pagans, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) except those with whom you made a covenant near Al-Masjid-al-Haram (at Makkah)? So long, as they are true to you, stand you true to them. Verily, Allah loves Al-Muttaqun (the pious - see V.2:2).

Pickthall
How can there be a treaty with Allah and with His messenger for the idolaters save those with whom ye made a treaty at the Inviolable Place of Worship? So long as they are true to you, be true to them. Lo! Allah loveth those who keep their duty.

Yusuf Ali
How can there be a league, before Allah and His Messenger, with the Pagans, except those with whom ye made a treaty near the sacred Mosque? As long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for Allah doth love the righteous.

Shakir
How can there be an agreement for the idolaters with Allah and with His Messenger; except those with whom you made an agreement at the Sacred Mosque? So as long as they are true to you, be true to them; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty).

Dr. Ghali
How should the associators (Those who associate others with Allah) have a covenant in the Meeting with Allah and in the sight of His Messenger? Excepting the ones (with) whom you covenanted at the Inviolable Mosque; so, as long as they go straight with you, so go straight with them; surely Allah loves the pious..


You can spin this anyway you want it, but it's specifically saying that other than those that were made a treaty with, there can be no agreement with Pagans/disbelievers/etc./etc. Thank you for sighting that quote, because even taken within the context it shows the bigger picture of what cannot be undertaken with Pagans/Disbelievers.


8:39 And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in G*d altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily G*d doth see all that they do.


http://prophetofdoom.net/Islamic_Quotes.Islam 'Islamaphobe' site
Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."


Now compare how <sarcastically> drastically different it is to these interpretations of the same insanity:

http://quran.com/8/39

Sahih International
And fight them until there is no fitnah and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah . And if they cease - then indeed, Allah is Seeing of what they do.

Muhsin Khan
And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.

Pickthall
And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah. But if they cease, then lo! Allah is Seer of what they do.

Yusuf Ali
And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do.

Shakir
And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.

Dr. Ghali
And fight them, till there is no temptation (Or: sedition, persecution) and the religion is all for Allah; so in case they refrain, then surely Allah is Ever-Beholding whatever they do.


No matter how you say it, it's all the same bullshit. Fight until all religion is for Allah, and if they stop fighting and surrender, then surely Allah sees them, is master of them, and therefore they submit to the will of Allah. Taken in the context of the war at hand with Mecca:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm
The Quran:

Quran (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah." The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is thus disingenuous (the actual Muslim words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The actual Arabic comes from "fitna" which can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. Taken as a whole, the context makes clear that violence is being authorized until "religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah" Some translations interpret "fitna" as "persecution", but the traditional understanding of this word is not supported by the historical context (See notes for 2:293, also). The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj. Other Muslims were allowed to travel there - just not as an armed group, since Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah", meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of the opposition. According to the Sira (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 324) Muhammad further explains that "Allah must have no rivals."


60:7-8
"It may be that G*d will grant love (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies. For G*d has power (over all things), and G*d is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

G*d does not forbid you, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for G*d loves those who are just."

http://www.muslimaccess.com/quraan/arabic/009.asp


http://quran.com/60/8

Sahih International
Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.

Muhsin Khan
Allah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion and did not drive you out of your homes. Verily, Allah loves those who deal with equity.

Pickthall
Allah forbiddeth you not those who warred not against you on account of religion and drove you not out from your homes, that ye should show them kindness and deal justly with them. Lo! Allah loveth the just dealers.

Yusuf Ali
Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.

Shakir
Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice.

Dr. Ghali
Allah does not forbid you (as regards) the ones who have not fought you on account of the religion and have not driven you out of your residences that you should be benign to them and be equitable towards them; surely Allah loves the equitable.


The rest of your psychopathic quotes, when taken with the rest of the violent tendencies to all who oppose the will of Allah, just gives a green light for Muslims to NOT act justly and equitable to Non-believers, because no sane person will respect the tenants previously quoted above, nor would they respect tenants such as Sharia Law, or the need for women to cover themselves, nor the need for women to be subservient to men, or any other crazy barbaric customs of Islam.

It's a quote like this that allows Muslims to interpret the rejection of such Tenants of Islam as a rejection of Islam altogether, and relinquishes Muslims from having to respect Dis-believers. But thanks for showing that even the 'loving peaceful' quotes of Islam can just be used in passive/aggressive terms.

Dont let that stop you from hating though little man. Play on.


Nope, I don't think it will. In fact, by forcing me to dig a little deeper into these quotes, you just educated me even further on how oppressive and psychotic this religion can be, and usually is. Thanks!
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PostSun Sep 23, 2012 9:35 pm » by Phaeton


*Sigh*

See thats what I mean. Googling some keywords and fetching only those verses that indicate 'agressive tendancies'. How qaint you didnt read the following, ONE VERSE BEFORE THE ONE YOU SO ENTHOUSIASTICALLY USED IN YOUR SLANDER ATTEMPT:

2:190 Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.

Or the verse a little further up the stream:
2:256 Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

Or to make yourself aware of the context of the verses you used.. Nah thats not convenient is it?

Quran 2:190–194, referring to the war against Pagans during the Battle of Badr in Medina, indicates that Muslims are only allowed to fight against those who intend to harm them (right of self-defense) and that if their enemies surrender, they must also stop because God does not like those who transgress limits.

These specific verses are very often "snipped" out of context, either by critics of Islam discussing "jihadism," or by misguided Muslims themselves who wish to justify their aggressive tactics.

The Qur'an commands Muslims to stick up for themselves in a defensive battle -- i.e. if an enemy army attacks, then Muslims are to fight against that army until they stop their aggression. All of the verses that speak about fighting/war in the Quran are in this context.

"Slay Them" - If They Attack You First
"Slay them wherever you catch them" (Quran 2:191). But who is this referring to? Who are "they" that this verse discusses? The preceding and following verses give the correct context:

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter... But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful... If they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression" (2:190-193).

One little sentence added or subtracted makes a hell of a difference doesnt it?

It is clear from the context that these verses are discussing a defensive war, when a Muslim community is attacked without reason, oppressed and prevented from practicing their faith. In these circumstances, permission is given to fight back -- but even then Muslims are instructed not to transgress limits, and to cease fighting as soon as the attacker gives up. Even in these circumstances, Muslim are only to fight directly against those who are attacking them, not innocent bystanders or non-combatants.

"Fight the Pagans" - If They Break Treaties
A similar verse can be found in chapter 9, verse 5 -- which in its snipped, out of context version could read: "fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)." Again, the preceding and following verses give the context.

This verse was revealed during a historical period when the small Muslim community had entered into treaties with neighboring tribes (Jewish, Christian, and pagan). Several of the pagan tribes had violated the terms of their treaty, secretly aiding an enemy attack against the Muslim community. The verse directly before this one instructs the Muslims to continue to honor treaties with anyone who has not since betrayed them, because fulfilling agreements is considered a righteous action. Then the verse continues, that those who have violated the terms of the treaty have declared war, so fight them... (as quoted above).

Directly after this permission to fight, the same verse continues, "but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them... for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful." The subsequent verses instruct the Muslims to grant asylum to any member of the pagan tribe/army who asks for it, and again reminds that "as long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for God loves the righteous."


Any verse that is quoted out of context misses the whole point of the message of the Quran. Nowhere in the Quran can be found ANY support for indiscriminate slaughter, the killing of non-combatants, or murder of innocent persons in 'payback' for another people's alleged crimes.

The Islamic teachings on this subject can be summed up in the verses I quoted earlier (Quran 60:7-8):

"It may be that God will grant love (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies. For God has power (over all things), and God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

God does not forbid you, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God loves those who are just."



But again, dont let all this stop you my man. Who needs the whole message? Who needs context?
Who needs a complete picture.. When its so very very easy to use snippets and create a utterly negative misrepresentation. Its just too much fun!
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