Making The Case Against Extra-Terrestial Visitation...

[Electrobadgr Profile]

I feel this may be an unpopular thread here but i believe these facts must be considered. Other than wild speculation what do we actually know?....We know that since approximately 1947 there have been sightings of disc shaped craft in the skies all over the world, but are these craft proof of visitation from another world or do they have a more homegrown origin?

This is the result of an argument i had with a friend the other day, he quite rightly pointed out that all we have evidence for is the craft, and NO SOLID EVIDENCE FOR ET . To which i replied, "So where did this advanced technology come from? surely it must be ET?" but when I look into it I AM NOT SO SURE.
Ok, so here is what we Know

The designs for the first "Flying Saucer" as we have come to know them came form Nikola Tesla, the details of the craft are as follows:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/ufo/ufo6.htm

NIKOLA TESLA
MAN AHEAD OF HIS TIME
(or How To Build a UFO)

By Bill Jones

Nikola Tesla, inventor of alternating current motors, did the
basic research for constructing electromagnetic field lift-and-drive
aircraft/space craft. From 1891 to 1893, he gave a set of lectures
and demonstrations to groups of electrical engineers. As part of
each show, Tesla stood in the middle of the stage, using his 6' 6"
height, with an assistant on either side, each 7 feet away. All 3
men wore thick cork or rubber shoe soles to avoid being electrically
grounded. Each assistant held a wire, part of a high voltage, low
current circuit. When Tesla raised his arms to each side, violet
colored electricity jumped harmlessly across the gaps between the
men. At high voltage and frequency in this arrangement, electricity
flows over a surface, even the skin, rather than into it. This is a
basic circuit which could be used by aircraft / spacecraft.

The hull is best made double, of thin, machinable, slightly
flexible ceramic. This becomes a good electrical insulator, has no
fire danger, resists any damaging effects of severe heat and cold,
and has the hardness of armor, besides being easy for magnetic
fields to pass through.

The inner hull is covered on it's outside by wedge shaped thin
metal sheets of copper or aluminum, bonded to the ceramic. Each
sheet is 3 to 4 feet wide at the horizontal rim of the hull and
tapers to a few inches wide at the top of the hull for the top set
of metal sheets, or at the bottom for the bottom set of sheets.
Each sheet is separated on either side from the next sheet by 1 or 2
inches of uncovered ceramic hull. The top set of sheets and bottom
set of sheets are separated by about 6 inches of uncovered ceramic
hull around the horizontal rim of the hull.


The outer hull protects these sheets from being short-circuited
by wind blown metal foil (Air Force radar confusing chaff), heavy
rain or concentrations of gasoline or kerosene fumes. If
unshielded, fuel fumes could be electrostatically attracted to the
hull sheets, burn and form carbon deposits across the insulating
gaps between the sheets, causing a short-circuit. The space, the
outer hull with a slight negative charge, would absorb hits from
micro-meteorites and cosmic rays (protons moving at near the speed
of light). Any danger of this type that doesn't already have a
negative electric charge would get a negative charge in hitting the
outer hull, and be repelled by the metal sheets before it could hit
the inner hull. This wouldn't work well on a very big meteor, I
might add.

The hull can be made in a variety of shapes; sphere, football,
disc, or streamlined rectangle or triangle, as long as these metal
sheets, "are of considerable area and arranged along ideal
enveloping surfaces of very large radii of curvature," p. 85. "My
Inventions" , by Nikola Tesla.

The power plant for this machine can be a nuclear fission or
fusion reactor for long range and long-term use to run a steam
engine which turns the generators. A short range machine can use a
hydrogenoxygen fuel cell to run a low-voltage motor to turn the
generators, occasionally recharging by hovering next to high voltage
power lines and using antennas mounted on the outer hull to take in
the electricity. The short-range machine can also have electricity
beamed to it from a generating plan on a long-range aircraft /
spacecraft or on the ground.

(St. Louis Post-Dispatch, Nov. 24, 1987, Vol 109, No. 328,
"The Forever Plane" by Geoffrey Rowan, p.D1, D7.)

("Popular Science", Vol 232, No. 1, Jan. 1988, "Secret of Perpetual
Flight? Beam Power Plane," by Arthur Fisher, p. 62-65, 106)

One standard for the generators is to have the same number of
magnets as field coils. Tesla's preferred design was a thin disc
holding 480 magnets with 480 field coils wired in series surrounding
it in close tolerance. At 50 revolutions per minute, it produces
19,400 cycles per second.

The electricity is fed into a number of large capacitors, one
for each metal sheet. An automatic switch, adjustable in timing by
the pilot, closes, and as the electricity jumps across the switch,
back and forth, it raises it's own frequency; a switch being used
for each capacitor.

The electricity goes into a Tesla transformer; again, one
transformer for each capacitor. In an oil tank to insulate the
windings and for cooling, and supported internally by wood, or
plastic, pipe and fittings, each Tesla transformer looks like a
short wider pipe that is moved along a longer, narrower pipe by an
insulated non-electric cable handle. The short pipe, the primary,
is 6 to 10 windings (loops) of wire co nected in series to the long
pipe. The secondary is 460 to 600 windings, at the low voltage and
frequency end.

The insulated non-electric cable handle is used through a set


of automatic controls to move the primary coil to various places on
the secondary coil. This is the frequency control. The secondary
coil has a low frequency and voltage end and a maximum voltage and
frequency end. The greater the frequency the electricity, the more
it pushes against the earth's electrostatic and electromagnetic
fields.

The electricity comes out of the transformer at the high
voltage end and goes by wire through the ceramic hull to the wide
end of the metal sheet. The electricity jumps out on and flows over
the metal sheet, giving off a very strong electromagnetic field,
controlled by the transformer. At the narrow end of the metal
sheet, most of the high-voltage push having been given off, the
electricity goes back by wire through the hull to a circuit breaker
box (emergency shut off), then to the other side of the generators.

In bright sunlight, the aircraft / spacecraft may seem
surrounded by hot air, a slight magnetic distortion of the light.
In semi-darkness and night, the metal sheets glow, even through the
thin ceramic outer hull, with different colors. The visible light
is a by-product of the electricity flowing over the metal sheets,
according to the frequencies used.

Descending, landing or just starting to lift from the ground,
the transformer primaries are near the secondary weak ends and
therefore, the bottom set of sheets glow a misty red. Red may also
appear at the front of the machine when it is moving forward fast,
lessening resistance up front. Orange appears for slow speed.
Orange-yellow are for airplane-type speeds. Green and blue are for
higher speeds. With a capacitor addition, making it oversized for
the circuit, the blue becomes bright white, like a searchlight, with
possible risk of damaging the metal sheets involved. The highest
visible frequency is violet, like Tesla's stage demonstrations, used
for the highest speed along with the bright white. The colors are
nearly coherent, of a single frequency, like a laser.

A machine built with a set of super conducting magnets would
simplify and reduce electricity needs from a vehicle's transformer
circuits to the point of flying along efficiently and hovering with
little electricity.

When Tesla was developing arc lights to run on alternating
current, there was a bothersome high-pitched whine, whistle, or
buzz, due to the electrodes rapidly heating and cooling. Tesla put
this noise in the ultrasonic range with the special transformer
already mentioned. The aircraft / spacecraft gives off such noises
when working at low frequencies.

Timing is important in the operation of this machine. For
every 3 metal sheets, when the middle one is briefly turned off, the
sheet on either side is energized, giving off the magnetic field.
The next instant, the middle sheet is energized, while the sheet on
either side is briefly turned off. There is a time delay in the
capacitors recharging themselves, so at any time, half of all the
metal sheets are energized and the other half are recharging,
alternating all around the inner hull. This balances the machine,
giving it very good stability. This balance is less when fewer of
the circuits are in use.



Fairly close, the aircraft / spacecraft produces heating of
persons and objects on the ground; but by hovering over an area at
low altitude for maybe 5 or 10 minutes, the machine also produces a
column of very cold air down to the ground. As air molecules get
into the strong magnetic fields that the machine is transmitting
out, the air molecules become polarized and from lines, or strings,
of air molecules. The normal movement of the air is stopped, and
there is suddenly a lot more room for air molecules in this area, so
more air pours in. This expansion and the lack of normal air motion
make the area intensely cold.

This is also the reason that the aircraft / spacecraft can fly
at supersonic speeds without making sonic booms. As air flows over
the hull, top and bottom, the air molecules form lines as they go
through the magnetic fields of the metal sheet circuits. As the air
molecules are left behind, they keep their line arrangements for a
short time,long enough to cancel out the sonic boom shock waves.

Outside the earth's magnetic field, another propulsion system
must be used, which relies on the first. You may have read of
particle accelerators, or cyclotrons, or atom smashers. A particle
accelerator is a circular loop of pipe that, in cross-section, is
oval. In a physics laboratory, most of the air in it is pumped out.
The pipe loop is given a static electric charge, a small amount of
hydrogen or other gas is given the same electric charge so the
particles won't stick to the pipe. A set of electromagnets all
around the pipe loop turn on and off, one after the other, pushing
with one magnetic pole and pulling with the next, until those gas
particles are racing around the pipe loop at nearly the speed of
light. Centrifugal force makes the particles speed closer to the
outside edge of the pipe loop, still within the pipe. The particles
break down into electrons, or light and other wavelengths, protons
or cosmic rays, and neutrons if more than hydrogen is put in the
accelerator.

At least 2 particle accelerators are used to balance each other
and counter each other's tendency to make the craft spin.
Otherwise, the machine would tend to want to start spinning,
following the direction of the force being applied to the particles.
The accelerators push in opposite directions.

As the pilot and crew travel in space, outside the magnetic
field of a world, water from a tank is electrically separated into
oxygen and hydrogen. Waste carbon dioxide that isn't used for the
onboard garden, and hydrogen (helium if the machine is using a
fusion reactor) is slowly, constantly fed into the inside curves of
both accelerators.

The high speed particles go out through straight lengths of
pipe, charged like the loops and in speeding out into space, push
the machine along. Doors control which pips the particles leave
from. This allows very long range acceleration and later
deceleration at normal (earth) gravity. This avoids the severe
problems of weightlessness, including lowered physical abilities of
the crew.

It is possible to use straight-line particle accelerators, even
as few as one per machine, but these don't seem as able to get the
best machine speed for the least amount of particles pushed out.


Using a constant acceleration of 32.2 feet per second per
second provides earth normal gravity in deep space and only 2
gravities of stress in leaving the earth's gravity field. It takes,
not counting air resistance, 18 minutes, 58.9521636 seconds to reach
the 25,000 miles per hour speed to leave the earth's gravity field.
It takes about 354 days, 12 hours, 53 minutes and 40 seconds (about)
to reach the speed of light - 672,487,072.7 miles per hour. It
takes the same distance to decelerate as it does to speed up, but
this cuts down the time delay that one would have in conventional
chemical rocketry enormously, for a long journey.

A set of superconducting magnets can be charged by metal sheet
circuits, within limits, to whatever frequency is needed and will
continue to transmit that magnetic field frequency almost
indefinitely.

A shortwave radio can be used to find the exact frequencies
that an aircraft / spacecraft is using, for each of the colors it
may show whole a color television can show the same overall color
frequency that the nearby, but not extremely close, craft is using
This is limited, as a machine traveling at the speed of a jet
airliner may broadcast in a frequency range usually used for radar
sets.

The craft circuits override lower frequency, lower voltage
electric circuits within and near their electromagnetic fields. One
source briefly mentioned a 1941 incident, where a shortwave radio
was used to override automobile ignition systems, up to 3 miles
away. When the shortwave radio was turned off, the cars could work
again. How many UFO encounters have been reported in which
automobile ignition systems have suddenly stopped?

I figure that things would not be at all pleasant for drivers
of modern cars with computer controlled engine and ignition systems.
Computer circuitry is sensitive to small changes in voltage and a
temporary wrong-way voltage surge may wipe the computer memory out.
It could mean that a number of drivers would suddenly be stranded
with their cars not working should such a craft fly low over a busy
highway. Only diesel engines, already warmed up, and Stanley
Steamer type steam engine cares are able to continue working in a
strong electromagnetic field. In May, 1988, it was reported that
the U.S. Army had lost 5 Blackhawk helicopters and 22 crewmen in
crashes caused by ordinary commercial radio broadcasting overriding
the computer control circuits of those helicopters. Certainly,
computer circuits for for this aircraft / spacecraft can and must be
designed to overcome this weakness.

One construction arrangement for this craft to avoid such
interference is for the metal sheet circuits to be more sharply
tuned. Quartz or other crystals can be used in capacitors; in a
very large number of low-powered, single frequency circuits, or as
part of a frequency control for the metal sheet circuits.

The aircraft / spacecraft easily overrides lower frequency and
lower voltage electric circuits up to a 6 mile wide circle around
it, but the effect is usually not tuned for such a drastic show. It
can be used for fire fighting: by hovering at a medium-low height at
low frequency, it forms a double negative pole magnet of itself and
the ground, the sides being a rotation of positive magnetic pole.

Tesla went broke in the early 1900's building a combination
radio and electric power broadcasting station. The theory and
experiments were correct but the financiers didn't want peace and
prosperity for all.

The Japanese physicist who developed superconducting material
with strong magnetism allows for a simplified construction of the
aircraft / spacecraft. Blocks of this material can be used in place
of the inner hull metal sheets. By putting electricity in each
block, the pilot can control the strength of the magnetic field it
gives off and can reduce the field strength by draining some of the
electric charge. This allows the same amount of work to be done
with vastly less electricity used to do it.

It is surprising that Jonathan Swift, in his "Gulliver's
Travels", 1726, third book, "A Voyage to Laputa", described an
imagined magnetic flying island that comes close to being what a
large superconducting aircraft / spacecraft can be build as, using
little or no electric power to hover and mover around.

----------------------------------

So when you consider that the science behind flying saucers was sound in the late 19th century where do we go next?......WWII and the Nazis.

There has been much speculation about the NAZI's having advanced technology, here is a documentary about the NAZI UFO program













------------------------------------


The Haunebu Disk

Quite a good video (not sure about hitler shaking hands with the ET at the end tho )







Early Development
The SS E-IV (Entwicklungsstelle 4), a development unit of the SS occult “Order of the Black Sun” was tasked with
researching alternative energies to make the Third Reich independent of scarce fuel oil for war production. Their
work included developing alternative energies and fuels. {To see Adamski's saucer photos and films }

This group developed by 1939 a revolutionary electro-magnetic-gravitic engine which improved Hans Coler’s free
energy machine into an energy Konverter coupled to a Van De Graaf band generator and Marconi vortex dynamo
(a spherical tank of mercury) to create powerful rotating electromagnetic fields that affected gravity and reduced
mass. It was designated the Thule Triebwerk (Thrustwork, a.ka. Tachyonator-7 drive) and was to be installed into
a Thule designed disc.

Since 1935 the Thule Gesellschaft (Society) had been scouting for a remote, inconspicuous, underdeveloped
testing ground for such a craft. Thule found a location in Northwest Germany that was known as (or possibly
designated as) Hauneburg. At the establishment of this testing ground and facilities the SS E-IV unit simply
referred to the new Thule disc as a war product- the “H-Gerat” (Hauneburg Device).
For wartime security reasons the name was shortened to Haunebu in
1939 and was briefly designated RFZ-5 along with Vril‘s machines once
the Hauneburg site was abandoned in favor of the more suitable Vril
Arado Brandenburg aircraft testing grounds.
The early Haunebu I craft of which two
prototypes were constructed were 25 meters in
diameter, had a crew of eight and could
achieve the incredible initial velocity of 4,800
km/h, but at low altitude. Further enhancement
enabled the machine to reach 17,000 km/h.
Flight endurance was 18 hours. To resist the
incredible temperatures of these velocities a
special armor called Victalen { Frozen Smoke }
was pioneered by SS metallurgists specifically
for both the Haunebu and Vril series of disc
craft. The Haunebu I had a double hull of
Victalen. {Frozen Smoke developed in the 30's}
The Experimental KSK Gun
The early models also attempted to
test out a rather large experimental
gun installation- the twin 60 mm KSK
(KraftStrahlKanone, Strong Ray
Cannon) which operated off the
Triebwerk for power. It has been
suggested that the ray from this
weapon made it a laser, but it was
not. The Germans called it an
"anachronism" gun- not belonging to
that time period or out of place.
When a Vril 7 was downed by the
Russians in 1945 a similar underbelly
mounted KSK gun was destroyed
with debris recovered from the battle
site. Postwar the strange metal balls
and tungsten spirals that made up
the weapon could not be identified.
But recently it has been speculated
that the Triebwerk-connected balls
formed cascade oscillators that were
connected to a long barrel-shrouded
transmission rod wrapped in a
precision tungsten spiral, or coil to
transmit a powerful energy burst
suitable to pierce up to 4 in (100 mm)
of enemy armor. The heavy gun
installation, however, badly
destabilized the disc and in
subsequent Haunebu models lighter
MG and MK cannon were supposedly
installed.
The Series Prototypes
The Haunebu I first flew in 1939 and both prototypes made 52 test
flights. In 1942, the enlarged Haunebu II of 26 meters diameter was
ready for flight testing. This disc had a crew of nine and could also
achieve supersonic flight of 6,000 to 21,000 km/h with a flight endurance
of 55 hours. Both it and the further developed 32 meter diameter
Haunebu II Do-Stra had heat shielding of two hulls of Victalen. The craft
were constructed and tested between 1943-44. The craft made 106 test
flights.

By 1944, the perfected war model, the Haunebu II Do-Stra (Dornier
STRAtospharen Flugzeug/Stratospheric Aircraft) was tested. Two
prototypes were built. These massive machines, several stories tall, were
crewed by 20 men. They were also capable of hypersonic speed beyond
21,000 km/h. The SS had intended to produce the machines with
tenders for both Junkers and Dornier but in late 1944/early 1945 Dornier
was chosen. The close of the war, however, prevented Dornier from
building any production models. Yet larger still was the 71 meter
diameter Haunebu III. A lone prototype was constructed before the close
of the war. It was crewed by 32 and could achieve speeds of 7,000 to
40,000 km/h. It had a triple Victalen hull. It is said to have had a flight
endurance of 7 to 8 weeks. The craft made 19 test flights. This craft was
to be used for evacuation work for Thule and Vril in March 1945.
Further plans for a 120 meter diameter Haunebu IV were in the works but no such craft is known to have been
constructed before the end of the war.

The Flugelrad Series








by Rob Arndt

1943

BMW Flugelrad I V-1 was painted matte aluminium and performed its first flying test at the Czech Aerodrome at
Prag-Kbely between August and September. It left the hanger by its own means, the rotor began to spin and the
machine lifted to 1 meter and flew for 300 meters before making a hard landing. During static tests the prototype
was surrounded by concrete blocks to protect the crew in the event of a disc blade breaking. In appearance the
basic Flugelrad lay-out was of a central body housing a pilot covered by a hemispheric dome surrounded by a disc
blade rotor of 6 meters with a lower body housing a BMW 003 jet engine, fuel, a Strahlrohr jet deflector and fixed
landing gear of 4 legs fitted with wheels (with no brakes nor shock absorbers). Flight was achieved by jet exhaust
deflection into the 16 variable-pitch disc blades with hydropneumatic actuators.

1944

Several changes were introduced on the second prototype designated BMW Flugelrad I V-2. The cockpit was
enlarged to carry two crew and serve as support for the addition of an aerodynamic rudder. The fixed landing gear
was replaced with a more practical semi-retractable one. Rotor diameter was enlarged to 8 meters but kept the 16
disc blades. The machine was painted yellow and performed its first flight tests in the autumn of 1944 at the
Neubiberg Aerodrome near BMW's Munich facility. Stability problems continued to plague the machine.

1945

The next prototype, BMW Flugelrad II V-1, kept the same body but discarded the failed rudder, which proved
almost useless. The rotor was enlarged to 12.6 meters. The first flight was at Prag-Kbely in February 1945 with
another jump at low altitude. Three other Flugelrad models were under study in early 1945:

the BMW Flugelrad II V-2 under construction

the BMW Flugelrad II V-3 models

the BMW Flugelrad III design phase

Both the BMW Flugelrads II V-2 and V-3 would have used two BMW 003 engines in the lower body side-by-side,
enlarged cockpits for four crew, and rotor enlargement to 14.4 meters (although the V-2 would have had 24 disc
blades while the V-3 would have had 21). The final BMW Flugelrad III would have been the production aircraft- a
huge stratospheric recon aircraft powered by two BMW 018 engines each with twin Strahlrohrs mounted one above
the other, an upper and lower cockpit arrangement, 6 crew, enlarged 24 meter rotor with 32 disc blades, fully
retractable gear, and room for an array of recon cameras. Nevertheless, all work ceased on the Flugelrads in April
1945. All prototypes and documentation were destroyed in the Russian advance.


---------------------------------------------

We also know that after the war a wealth of german scientists were divided amongst the allies supposedly to help advance Americas rocket technology. 2 years later the most famous UFO incident occurs in Roswell New Mexico.....

If we understand that saucer technology has been in existence for over 100years we can easily explain the more elaborate sightings in recent years as the technology has developed.

With the growth of the disclosure movement we now have millions of people demanding we be told the truth about ET, i do not believe this to be an accident. ET seems like a perfect cover for our governments developing technology initiated by the NAZI regime. This idea of ET visitation has been ALLOWED to snowball to the level it is at today. And i suspect the day will come when we are told we are not alone and we must unite as one planet to conquor/explore space, and we will just lap it up because it is what we have been waiting for. The New World Order will be in place, we all think we have contact with an advanced race and forget about all the evil perpetrated by the powers that be. I bet you not ONE of us will come into contact with this alien race, it will all be a huge movie conducted through the MSM. There will be no alien race, just us and the technology we have been hiding for decades.

I would be more inclined to believe that mankind was visited hundreds if not thousands of years ago by an advanced civilisation. There seems to be much more evidence to support that idea than to say that grey aliens are kicking about in flying disks disturbing rednecks!! Is it a coincedence that almost all UFO sightings happen near military bases? The most credible sightings have been from military personnel, we get drip fed the stories and demand answers. However we know what answer we want and anything else just won't do, this is dangerous thinking. just remember, if disclosure comes and it is how you've always imagined........keep asking questions, why would the government finally buckle and tell you the truth. We don't know the truth about anything that they don't want us to.

I hope this is food for thought

Peace

[Electrobadgr Profile]

Fair point Slush, however if we assume that the research was incomplete and the craft were only in test stage, they would not have mass produced these craft until the technology was solid and as close to 100% reliable as possible. You know the Germans, mad for their efficiency

It seems like the techniques could have been perfected after the war and would explain the non aggresive Foo Fighters as they would not have mounted weapon systems on the craft at that stage. Also if the craft displayed signs of aggresion the allies would have known straight away this was German technology.

[Aragajag Profile]

One thing that gets to me is the old drawings of flying disks not to discredit your thoughts, I always come back to them and that little guy in the pyramids looking like a grey. To go along those lines you have carvings of something very close to todays weapons like helicopters and such. Did they see further ahead or were they visited by someone from our time era. Maybe the greys are a creation of men from the not to distant future.

[Spoetnick Profile]

I appreciate what you are mentioning, but sightings of flying disks is not a 100 years or so old.

You can read the bible for example or explore the Egyptian history or the Mayan’s for that matter to find out there was a lot more going on then than we know or knew.

Also flying disks does not stand for an ET at all.

Of course theirs a lot of "evidence" the Nazi’s tried to make these flying disks and apparently they succeeded one time, why not? They were more advanced in their technology than for example the US in those days.
They were superior, but luckily for us to small populated to rule the world.

If they succeed to create a flying saucer, the project failed for sure, weapons were maybe too heavy and disks maybe could not travel that fast and maybe they had to little fuel on board or what other reason you can come up with.

Also, please explain to me the sightings on UFO’s taking of with speeds of 10th of thousands miles an hour?

Or explain to me the cigar shaped “ships” with dimensions of miles across. Man made?

If we are in possession of this knowledge and it is advanced technology we would have used it already to travel threw space to explore our solar system ourselves, don’t you think?
We would already have walked the surface of Mars for example.

The reason of the sightings being recorded more often is the people have more resources to spread news and for that matter take pictures of these strange phenomena.

It is a thought worthy, but I am not convinced flying disks sighting are all manmade.
Especially the ones which can travel with more speed we’ve ever seen.

(Please exclude the hoaxes in above mentioned)

Here’s some picture’s of ancient UFO sightings. Disk shaped!











So sightings of disk shaped Ufo’s always have been there, just look it up for yourself!

[Electrobadgr Profile]

I appreciate what you are mentioning, but sightings of flying disks is not a 100 years or so old.

You can read the bible for example or explore the Egyptian history or the Mayan’s for that matter to find out there was a lot more going on then than we know or knew.

Also flying disks does not stand for an ET at all.

Of course theirs a lot of "evidence" the Nazi’s tried to make these flying disks and apparently they succeeded one time, why not? They were more advanced in their technology than for example the US in those days.
They were superior, but luckily for us to small populated to rule the world.

If they succeed to create a flying saucer, the project failed for sure, weapons were maybe too heavy and disks maybe could not travel that fast and maybe they had to little fuel on board or what other reason you can come up with.

Also, please explain to me the sightings on UFO’s taking of with speeds of 10th of thousands miles an hour?

Or explain to me the cigar shaped “ships” with dimensions of miles across. Man made?

If we are in possession of this knowledge and it is advanced technology we would have used it already to travel threw space to explore our solar system ourselves, don’t you think?
We would already have walked the surface of Mars for example.

The reason of the sightings being recorded more often is the people have more resources to spread news and for that matter take pictures of these strange phenomena.

It is a thought worthy, but I am not convinced flying disks sighting are all manmade.
Especially the ones which can travel with more speed we’ve ever seen.

(Please exclude the hoaxes in above mentioned)

Here’s some picture’s of ancient UFO sightings. Disk shaped!











So sightings of disk shaped Ufo’s always have been there, just look it up for yourself!

Fair enough Dude, but as i said earlier I would be more inclined to believe we were visited in ancient times before we had the ability to nuke the shit out of anyone who fucks with us. We are a world that has been controlled by fear for a long time, i suspect in more innocent times we probably would have been more welcoming to visitors rather than expecting them to destroy us.

As far as the speed of these craft we know that frictionless travel using electromagnetics is possible and can achieve great speeds, and as far as the sightings of craft performing crazy manouvres at extreme high speeds producing G's that would tear our puny flesh to shreds, who said these were manned? by man or ET. All i am saying is that we have no evidence of alien beings, only supposed alien craft. I would also say that there is no solid evidence to support any alien abduction story, again these "abductions" are more likely to have a very terrestial source.

Don't get me wrong, there is a lot a very strange sightings and loads of great footage (mostly provided by Slush ) but NONE of it is evidence ot ET, just unfamiliar craft.

[Dogmeat Profile]

Hello,
I appreciate that you bring so much forward in this forum that many may have not seen or read before. I also would like to credit you for making such a specific opening statement :

"Other than wild speculation what do we actually know?..."

This is pretty much an Einstein burst of clarity in a WWW of forums parading as know it alls and experts, insiders and agents. I am sincere about this comment.

I have no idea what YOU know, to be honest. This is for the benefit of those in doubt of the truth behind any posts made in this general area of reality. You may be on an expedition here fishing for former Mil types and black project insiders or part of the Amazing Randi operation to draw out and expose the ones that are faking it or whatever. It takes all types i heard.

Ok, what do I know?
Using the rules I set out here I also may be gaming here for whatever agenda.However, I offer this in the spirit in which the post was made, take it at face value or more, or less.

I saw flying objects many times that are not aircraft as we know them. In daylight, dark, and with other witnesses. I had a series of experiences that started at about age 3 where I sleep walk to the landed flying objects.
There are also clear memories of pursuing the flying objects' occupants into the woods.

Then came open face to face meetings while I was awake and witnesses were within a short distance. My family heard this a few times before I agreed to stop saying any more to maintain peace in the area. Teachers, friends, sunday school teachers and neighbors all heard some of this.

I reported the 1972 contact to a Dr. and studied as well as tested then I was eventually sent to a military study facility for a long period. DARPA was there...Nellis and other facilitys quite nearby.

Records are available to the press proving this and have been examined. My story is copyrighted ,yet not available at a bookstore yet.

What do we know? I know what I see, feel, hear, taste and smell.

Then as a person who realises that this sounds a lot like another guy's website I sense suspicion I am making this up.

What lengths do you suppose the Federal government would go to to determine if I was )nuts!) lying, delusional or something?

Lucky I don't walk with a limp.

What do we know as a Citizen? What they either tell us, show us or allow us to hear as a 'story' from another passing by webizen.

PaX

Alien Mbc

[Electrobadgr Profile]

An example of an electromagnetic propulsion system that would work now is the train system detailed by the venus project


It is based on the japanese bullet trains but capable of much higher speeds. The technology exists to do this now.

From the venus project

Maglev Trains

Various segments of the passenger compartments on these high-speed maglev trains can be removed as the train passes through the station. These removable sections can then take passengers to their local destinations while other compartments are lowered in their place. This method allows the main body of the train to remain in motion, thus conserving energy. In addition, the removable multi-functional compartments could be specially equipped to serve most transportation purposes

Maglev (transport)
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JR-Maglev at Yamanashi test track in November, 2005. 581 km/h. Guinness World Records authorization.
MLX01 maglev train Superconducting magnet Bogie

Maglev, or magnetic levitation, is a system of transportation that suspends, guides and propels vehicles, predominantly trains, using magnetic levitation from a very large number of magnets for lift and propulsion. This method has the potential to be faster, quieter and smoother than wheeled mass transit systems. The power needed for levitation is usually not a particularly large percentage of the overall consumption; most of the power used is needed to overcome air drag, as with any other high speed train.

The highest recorded speed of a Maglev train is 581 kilometres per hour (361 mph), achieved in Japan in 2003, 6 kilometres per hour (3.7 mph) faster than the conventional TGV speed record.

The first commercial Maglev "people-mover" was officially opened in 1984 in Birmingham, England. It operated on an elevated 600-metre (2,000 ft) section of monorail track between Birmingham International Airport and Birmingham International railway station, running at speeds up to 42 km/h (26 mph); the system was eventually closed in 1995 due to reliability and design problems.

Perhaps the most well known implementation of high-speed maglev technology currently operating commercially is the IOS (initial operating segment) demonstration line of the German-built Transrapid train in Shanghai, China that transports people 30 km (18.6 miles) to the airport in just 7 minutes 20 seconds, achieving a top speed of 431 km/h (268 mph), averaging 250 km/h (160 mph).

The point i am trying to make is that there is terrestial, commonly used technology that simulate on a ground level the capabilites off electromagnetic propulsion. We know this incredibly efficient technology exists and could have been refined into every aspect of our transport infrastructure by now if the economy wasn't so dependant on the consumption of fossil fuels. We should all be flying around in our own wee saucers today, why do you think Gary McKinnon is facing such a hefty sentence? He was close to making this information public.

I would urge anyone to post their ultimate videos, pics and testimonies to prove that these UFO's are alien. Its a tricky one when you think about it, we really don't know how far we've come. If you belive the statistic that commercially available technology is 50years behind what actually exists, then how fast things have moved in the last 10years alone, think where we should be by now.......

[Electrobadgr Profile]

Hello,
I appreciate that you bring so much forward in this forum that many may have not seen or read before. I also would like to credit you for making such a specific opening statement :

"Other than wild speculation what do we actually know?..."

This is pretty much an Einstein burst of clarity in a WWW of forums parading as know it alls and experts, insiders and agents. I am sincere about this comment.

I have no idea what YOU know, to be honest. This is for the benefit of those in doubt of the truth behind any posts made in this general area of reality. You may be on an expedition here fishing for former Mil types and black project insiders or part of the Amazing Randi operation to draw out and expose the ones that are faking it or whatever. It takes all types i heard.

Ok, what do I know?
Using the rules I set out here I also may be gaming here for whatever agenda.However, I offer this in the spirit in which the post was made, take it at face value or more, or less.

I saw flying objects many times that are not aircraft as we know them. In daylight, dark, and with other witnesses. I had a series of experiences that started at about age 3 where I sleep walk to the landed flying objects.
There are also clear memories of pursuing the flying objects' occupants into the woods.

Then came open face to face meetings while I was awake and witnesses were within a short distance. My family heard this a few times before I agreed to stop saying any more to maintain peace in the area. Teachers, friends, sunday school teachers and neighbors all heard some of this.

I reported the 1972 contact to a Dr. and studied as well as tested then I was eventually sent to a military study facility for a long period. DARPA was there...Nellis and other facilitys quite nearby.

Records are available to the press proving this and have been examined. My story is copyrighted ,yet not available at a bookstore yet.

What do we know? I know what I see, feel, hear, taste and smell.

Then as a person who realises that this sounds a lot like another guy's website I sense suspicion I am making this up.

What lengths do you suppose the Federal government would go to to determine if I was )nuts!) lying, delusional or something?

Lucky I don't walk with a limp.

What do we know as a Citizen? What they either tell us, show us or allow us to hear as a 'story' from another passing by webizen.

PaX

Alien Mbc

Hey Dogmeat, welcome to the forum I appreciate your first post being on this thread. I believe what you say, as i believe that most abductees (the ones who aren't lying) believe they have been abducted by aliens. i think it can be argued that most of the documented activity could have been perpetrated by humans IF we make the assumption that technology is far more advanced than we the public know. We (i say we in terms of human collective accomplishment) know we can make these craft or at the very least have been attempting it for a long time, we know we can manipulate the human mind to see and believe anything through hypnosis etc, we know free energy technology exists and is being repressed, we know that it is only through capitalism and monetary economics that widely available technology does not reflect the technology that science shows can and does exist and if we assume that common technology is indeed 50years behind then you see why always saying "Its aliens" is a bit of a cop out.

Who knows, it could all be reverse engineered. or it could be that human ingenuity is far more potent than we have been led to believe.

Peace

[Methaneslurpee Profile]

The point i am trying to make is that there is terrestial, commonly used technology that simulate on a ground level the capabilites off electromagnetic propulsion. We know this incredibly efficient technology exists and could have been refined into every aspect of our transport infrastructure by now if the economy wasn't so dependant on the consumption of fossil fuels. We should all be flying around in our own wee saucers today, why do you think Gary McKinnon is facing such a hefty sentence? He was close to making this information public.

I would urge anyone to post their ultimate videos, pics and testimonies to prove that these UFO's are alien. Its a tricky one when you think about it, we really don't know how far we've come. If you belive the statistic that commercially available technology is 50years behind what actually exists, then how fast things have moved in the last 10years alone, think where we should be by now.......

The point is that you don't have a point. Instead, you'd rather insult all the people who have already had contact with the beings themselves. Sure, those who have had encounters only number in the thousands or low millions. But, chances are they tend to congregate at sites like this one.

No offense. And I'll play along with your little charade, just so you can see how thoughtless your hypothesis is...

Okay, supposing big oil simply has a stranglehold on world economy. Do you think the U.S. would be pussy-footing around with the middle east, when we already have the technology to set oil down, let alone take the oil from them? No.

Conclusion: Middle East is the stage for world events, and it is obviously in collusion with other world empires. Why?

If your theory is that such futuristic technology already exists, and that we have the "green light" to use it, then you are also claiming that the Middle East has already brought us to our knees. C'mon dude. You seem smarter than that. Figure it out.

[Electrobadgr Profile]

The point i am trying to make is that there is terrestial, commonly used technology that simulate on a ground level the capabilites off electromagnetic propulsion. We know this incredibly efficient technology exists and could have been refined into every aspect of our transport infrastructure by now if the economy wasn't so dependant on the consumption of fossil fuels. We should all be flying around in our own wee saucers today, why do you think Gary McKinnon is facing such a hefty sentence? He was close to making this information public.

I would urge anyone to post their ultimate videos, pics and testimonies to prove that these UFO's are alien. Its a tricky one when you think about it, we really don't know how far we've come. If you belive the statistic that commercially available technology is 50years behind what actually exists, then how fast things have moved in the last 10years alone, think where we should be by now.......

The point is that you don't have a point. Instead, you'd rather insult all the people who have already had contact with the beings themselves. Sure, those who have had encounters only number in the thousands or low millions. But, chances are they tend to congregate at sites like this one.

No offense. And I'll play along with your little charade, just so you can see how thoughtless your hypothesis is...

Okay, supposing big oil simply has a stranglehold on world economy. Do you think the U.S. would be pussy-footing around with the middle east, when we already have the technology to set oil down, let alone take the oil from them? No. Conclusion: Middle East is the stage for world events, and it is obviously in collusion with other world empires. Why?

If your theory is that such futuristic technology already exists, then you are also claiming that the Middle East has already brought us to our knees. C'mon dude. You seem smarter than that. Figure it out.

Firstly i am not insulting anyone (at least not intentionally), i am only trying to instigate an open minded debate and even said:

I would urge anyone to post their ultimate videos, pics and testimonies to prove that these UFO's are alien. Its a tricky one when you think about it, we really don't know how far we've come

It is a wide open invitation to prove your point.


Secondly i do not rigidly believe anything to the point that i would not welcome a counter argument or another point of view. Thats not to say i won't defend a point aggresively from time to time but i always welcome the challenge and hope i can be proven wrong(esspecially when discussing the darker side of conspiracy theories).

Okay, supposing big oil simply has a stranglehold on world economy. Do you think the U.S. would be pussy-footing around with the middle east, when we already have the technology to set oil down, let alone take the oil from them? No. Conclusion: Middle East is the stage for world events, and it is obviously in collusion with other world empires. Why?

You kind of answer your own question....war is much more profitable than oil. The oil is a cheeky bonus

And again do i really have to stress, there is no profit in free , renewable energy.

Anything else?