Matter of Torrents: Stealing or Sharing?

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PostMon Mar 01, 2010 8:41 pm » by Hesop


My 2 bits:
I've lived in the city, and don't ever remember an occasion of dling a movie.
But!
What if?

Seeing a current movie involved taking up...............
6 hrs of your time?
200 driven miles, round trip, on your vehicle?
easily costing you $50 = movie costs?

So, yes. I dl movies. If I like them, we buy the dvd when they become available.
I don't buy that many, because they also put out a lot of CRAP! But of course they blow them up as sensational.
How do movies get stolen in the first place? Well, cams are obvious, but not really worth it anyways, but the actual hi res productions are on the internet, and many know where to go to find them. You need a membership and pay a subscription, (about $39 year), but that gives you access to even work prints, extra scenes, etc. So if they are so concerned over royalties, why are they on the web?

But still, I don't pass these on to anyone. Personal use only. I don't attempt to resell, like some do, or make available to anyone else in any way. Movies are all I download, (well, occasional porn,lol).
BUT, if we had a DECENT theater here, that actually showed good movies BEFORE they are released to DVD, if I had the same access that the majority of people in the country have....no, I wouldn't. (well, except the porn)..........(see how honest I am?)

Actually, growing up, I always thought that people that stole petty stuff needed help in some way. You know, like the Winona deal. Stealing stupid shit they could easily afford. I guess folks just want to treat internet shit different, than if it was on a store shelf. A means of justifying reasons, but still, the same effect. So actually I'm doing it too, no excuse there, but I don't have the availability here either. My excuse. Not a very good one, just honest.
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PostMon Mar 01, 2010 8:50 pm » by Futuju


the record labels are the ones that really steals from the artists

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PostMon Mar 01, 2010 8:52 pm » by Futuju



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PostMon Mar 01, 2010 9:10 pm » by Zegtelzegtel


I think we really have to create a new system for art...I believe art should be free..but the artists need to live too so we need another system...how I dont have an idea yet..

The real bad guyz are banks, insurances, big companies...
They are the one who steel from old ladies....They have entire teams who`s job is to create sneaky systems(banks :idea: )....

People now take what they can take...I can understand it...some get screwed over and over by the big ones......``they do it, so why I shouldnt do it?``

Its sad but its like that...It will never change..



Maybe we should pay more for our internet provider.....the provider could pay artists in some way..
But .....providers are big companies...so...

I

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PostMon Mar 01, 2010 9:58 pm » by Iamcare


This is a matter very close to my heart so I'm gonna chime in.

In the end this comes down to 2 things, greed and exclusivity. In my opinion there is no greater exponent of how the mainstream grabs hold of something and tries to stick their flag on it like music. Firstly, there is no justification for the amount of money spent on some of these people. Is anyone worth £20 million for 90 minutes of film? Is anyone worth £10 million to produce an album of 12 songs, especially given the lack of soul, talent or originality in popular music these days? The answer is obviously no, and yet people still support this system by buying music and going to the cinema to see huge milti billion dollar productions, which in the end are usually shit.
What this attitude has done is engender a culture of exclusivity around music cinema etc., which to me is nonsensical. Music is an art form that defines freedom of expression. Yet I've grown up to see an increasing systemic issue take foot. If you don't have the money, you don't get the airplay, if your not backed by one of the huge corperate music houses, you don't get noticed, Which means the only way to really make a living out of music is to allow your art to suffer and compromise with the Simon Cowell's of this world. Obviously that man has no talent, no discernment, and has whored himself for fame and noteriety to the British Press for years. He commands zero respect in the music community.
[youtube]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/PVIAAD9rfL4&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/PVIAAD9rfL4&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]
These people have done the one thing that should never be done, which is turning an art form in to an attempt to make exorbitant profits and shut out anyone who may disagree. They have no right to do this other than that which they have proclaimed for themselves, and their wish to stop piracy stems purely from a wish to further monopolise the industry. For this reason they have lost any moral standing they may have had, and so their arguement disintegrates.

As a jobbing musician I've made a living these last 10 years or so playing in bands and forming my own, but I am a musician, I never want to be a celebrity. I want to create music simply for the enjoyment of doing it and even though I own the copyright to protect people actually stealing riffs and lyrics etc., I give all my music away free to anyone who wants to listen: http://www.myspace.com/vehiliusinca.

What really gets me about this is the artists though. Lets take for example Metallica. They kicked up a huge fuss over napster, but what nobody pointed out at the time to Lars "I'm just off to dip my dick in gold" Ulrich was that Metallica made their name in the early 80's through tape trading, where metal kids would make compilations of their favourite stuff and pass them around each other. this was against the copyright law at the time and constituted theft under Metallica's new Ideology. Yet not only do the members of Metallica admit to doing it themselves, they fully acknowledge that they would not have become famous with out tape trading.

The entire arguement in my eyes is an attempt by the music 'industry' to make it seem as if there's only one music 'scene', which is the one they provide for us. The true fact is 99% of bands are happy for torrents to continue as it allows for their music to be heard without them having to whore themselves to big business and ultimately, allow their art to suffer censorship. In the end nobody will stop torrent d/l's or whatever comes next because no matter how many lawyers the music industry hires, they will never make the idea of having to pay for a soundwave an accepted idea amongst the masses.
Art will never be censored and never be broken down into a commodity one pays for, these piracy cases must be fought to the hilt but the truth is, even if they came out tommorow and said pirate downloading will be punishable with death by firing squad, I would still download pirated stuff regurlarly as this is a principled stand I beleive in.
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PostMon Mar 01, 2010 10:10 pm » by Hesop


A lot said there. We truly are all equals, or brothers. The problem is that no one recognizes that fact.

Hmmm, good sig.
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PostMon Mar 01, 2010 10:15 pm » by Mushroom


zegtelzegtel wrote:I think we really have to create a new system for art...I believe art should be free..but the artists need to live too so we need another system...how I dont have an idea yet..

The real bad guyz are banks, insurances, big companies...
They are the one who steel from old ladies....They have entire teams who`s job is to create sneaky systems(banks :idea: )....

People now take what they can take...I can understand it...some get screwed over and over by the big ones......``they do it, so why I shouldnt do it?``

Its sad but its like that...It will never change..



Maybe we should pay more for our internet provider.....the provider could pay artists in some way..
But .....providers are big companies...so...

I


You've hit the nail on the head.

Theft is theft, same as black is black.
Banks, corporations, Governments, Countries, Empires are all based on exploit.

My country has stolen more than I have
My Government has stolen more than I have
Record companies have exploited the consumer more than I have exploited them.
Bates is a true master in exploit.
My bank is a bigger criminal than my MP.... Yet If download a song I could face prosecution.

Theft is theft, but lets put it into perspective please! By downloading a couple of songs or movies you are NOT going to cause financial collapse of an industry.. The above mentioned are the guilty ones, just shifting the blame and generating more revenue in fines.

Just my 2 cents :cheers:

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PostMon Mar 01, 2010 10:31 pm » by jetxvii


it is stealing by human law,

it is sharing by conventional law.

I am making a documentary for free to viewers and don't expect a red cent for it. I will be promoting it myself (not promoting but more like letting it sit)

I think the line is not between is it stealing or not, but rather are they real visionaries or not..

a true artist that respects their art and loves it to the core will produce something that they want to share with the world Free.

An economic artist does something because he knows it is catchy, and he wants to make money so he can go onto something else to make more money.

The systems of media sharing is flawed, it is also over priced very over priced. if you are going to have different types of media then you need to circulate it in a fashion where you can collaborate all that media into either a monthly basis account, or a sort of fashion where you the person that is paying needs a dramatic cut in the prices you are paying so you can stream, listen, play with unlimited resources for a certain fee..

that is just one Idea. but I think the system is flawed in the first place and it's not our faults as some have put on here. when you buy a movie you buy a movie, when you watch it with a few friends is that stealing? no it isn't but if you watch it with more that (I think it's 5) then it becomes a public viewing?! and that is against the law...

Personally I think the industry will work itself out and it has been doing just fine.

and no people that are making 75 dollars are not being sent to jobs where they make 10 dollars an hour, I am sorry but a game tester is not making the same as an editor, the going rate for a tester in gaming is 10 - 14 an hour so it doesn't make sense that they are garnishing people wages. the music / movie industry is still expanding there empire in terms of Itunes, Rhapsody, Zune, etc... you can get so much media publicly by paying for it than you can for free where you have to search....


this is a touchy issue, but I personally believe it is up to the artist to decide what they want to do with there work (which in most cases is to make money)

but then the other issue is if you feel it is worth buying and if you are satisfied with it ( I am sorry a 10 second preview of a song that is 3-5 minutes long isn't doing it, and one song they play on the radio for an album that consist of 13 - 18 songs isn't cutting it either.) ( same goes for movies, a choppy preview of a movie that looks like a horror movie ends up being the stupidest suspense movie that you have ever seen, and that is usually the case, I know that I feel raped after a movie because it wasn't worth the hour of work I had to do just to see the piece of crap.) so the abuse of power by the entertainers is in question as well with this category, as if they don't have a happy audience then they don't make money.

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PostMon Mar 01, 2010 10:35 pm » by Iamcare


I dont understand the arguement that "theft is theft"

There are companies that go to water sources in the third world, fence them of and charge people for the produce. Would you say to a starving child taking water from that facility without paying that 'theft is theft' when it is only money and arms that have established ownership of something that has belonged to everyone previously? Does anyone even really 'own' water or land?

In order for theft to occur one must establish the right of ownership, when you buy a cd or dvd the ownership is yours it is therefore up to you what you do with it. If you wish to share it that is your perogative and the idea of criminalising that perogative is ludicrous.
also by saying it's as black and white as 'theft is theft' and therefore should be punished you open the door for anyone with power and influence to ban anything they like, be it justified or not, as long as they have law on their side
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PostMon Mar 01, 2010 10:40 pm » by Mozi!!a


piracy illigal content.its called sharing coulturs. have you notest lately we truly are more connected then we ever were.
thats a good thing img a world were no one hadde a singel illegal content. what would happen to music industry they will become gods. i realy dont see any problem with this.
so know they got to finde a new way to make money. thats creating something new insted the same thing. a true artist in my opinion doesn't need to get paid. cos that's his passion. what his heart burns for. we got to share ar vision not sell it. :D


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