Michael Moore's Message to Obama and Blue Dog Democrats

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PostWed Sep 30, 2009 7:11 pm » by Electrobadgr


@ Lowsix

man, surely you can appreciate that american foriegn policy has largely deserved the scrutiny it has received? And due to the insular nature of the states its easy to see why some have a bit of a "fuck you" attitude to the US. But sometimes it can seem like america is flippin the bird to the rest of the world and carries out actions irrespective of public opinion both inside and outside the US. My point is america doesn't take critisism well as a nation, and when the media keeps telling you "america is the greatest country in the world" , it can be a bitter pill to swallow when faced with your nations flaws.

However, michael moore is an american, from one of the most deprived areas in the USA, he knows firsthand whats wrong with america because he has seen it in action on his doorstep.... Gun crime, poverty, healthcare and the aftermath of 9/11. Surely you can accept that his experience qualifies him to make these flaws visible to the deluded masses who think everything is ok? And surely it is better coming from a fellow countryman that some tit on a forum whos only experience of america is from tv and the internet?....

Peace my man
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PostWed Sep 30, 2009 7:28 pm » by Boondox68


it doesn't matter.it's literally too late.and i should have said 'i or me'.i've been preparing for this shit for nearly 20 years..and i'm not ready.getting some fluff from loser like moore is useless.this is the beginning of the end and if your not ready by now...well,good luck.and for the record.alex jones is a clown.the stuff he did at the beginning was what we needed.just like moore's pony show it needs to go away.too much info in itself is not a good thing.let alone from these two.truthfully,the time for talking is over.i dn't need any more vids,or columns or bullshit from fuckers that are just looking out for themselves.slush,i appreciate the conversation.really.you seem like a good guy..me-i'm just an asshole :cheers:

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PostWed Sep 30, 2009 7:33 pm » by Soldierboy


electrobadgr wrote:@ Lowsix

man, surely you can appreciate that american foriegn policy has largely deserved the scrutiny it has received? And due to the insular nature of the states its easy to see why some have a bit of a "fuck you" attitude to the US. But sometimes it can seem like america is flippin the bird to the rest of the world and carries out actions irrespective of public opinion both inside and outside the US. My point is america doesn't take critisism well as a nation, and when the media keeps telling you "america is the greatest country in the world" , it can be a bitter pill to swallow when faced with your nations flaws.

However, michael moore is an american, from one of the most deprived areas in the USA, he knows firsthand whats wrong with america because he has seen it in action on his doorstep.... Gun crime, poverty, healthcare and the aftermath of 9/11. Surely you can accept that his experience qualifies him to make these flaws visible to the deluded masses who think everything is ok? And surely it is better coming from a fellow countryman that some tit on a forum whos only experience of america is from tv and the internet?....

Peace my man


America IS the greatest country in the world! show me one thats better and not just in your opinion either please. Yes we have our problems, but who does'nt. I've been all over this world and the rest of it SUCKS! no, everything is NOT ok in this country, but has it really ever been OK?
I will say it again.....Michael Moore is a bullshit artist nothing more...just a pig who is getting fatter off the sheep who follow him and think what he says is truth.
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PostWed Sep 30, 2009 7:57 pm » by Lowsix


Understood.

However the flaw in that, is that the world THINKS we are a deluded mass, and its simply not true.

So to have this self awareness, of things and concepts that ARE outside our realm of control, to THEN be told fucking constantly how fucked up WE are..is maddening. And its singular in its direction. Is Europe examining itself? No. Asia? no. Russia No. Canada no, South america..no..they dont have to..they can focus on us.

We arent the only fucked group of people on this planet, but you wouldnt know it by the sheer weight of printed, published and televised words about it.

Its gets REAL old hearing about it from every single direction..when in FACT, as much as its intuitively easy to blame us for EVERYTING..there is blame to go around, and the blame isnt being borne by the countries and powers that shared in fucking humanity. Not at all.

Squarely Yoked on the Americans, and my pronouncements about what if not the next administration, then surely ones that will follow it shortly, WILL be as extreme as Im saying..and one of these days there will be a leader who will shine that mirror back in everyone ELSES eyes, and make it clear, we didnt get us here by ourselves, and we are done being blamed for it.

Ive made the case for why the M.E. has gone as it has..the REAL reason..and that is the coming resource wars..but hey that's all boring shit, and its not nearly as much fun talking about that as it is to just Blame Bush and the American Racist Right winger God loving psycopaths,,..History is going to vindicate him, as will western civilization, once they realize, in fundamental terms why things in that arena went the way they did...because trust me, The West doesntt want to be second or third place..but they dont want to accept the responsibility for maintaining it either, becuase it invoves a complex moral equation..one peoplel REFUSE to make..they ned someone else to make it for them, and in this case, History will bear out, that it was America that made it.

And if nothing else, even if the path from here to there is painful the world will realize that despite our flaw, there was a hidden courage (that the rest of the world simply does not have) to make some tough decisions, that i couldnt even FORCE people here to make..Too much peace and light bullshit to actually examine the details that might come with the West Losing its prominence, becuase it seems so far fetched..and because we cant even FATHOM what form it will take, so again, its easier to say..Ooo war is bad, bush sucks, the americans suck..when a courageous power play was made for the SAKE of western civilizations..one that has unpopular PERSONAL moral implications but HUGE implications for the survival of the western Hegemony.

And until that sinks in, either from our failure or success, its going to be the EASY route to blame us for this and that...and as an american citizen, its gotten past old..
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PostWed Sep 30, 2009 8:25 pm » by Darkplanet


LowSix wrote:Alright, here is my core belief..and you jsut challenge the shit out of it then..

He is a Millionaire BECAUSE of capitalism...
That singular concept ALONE made him rich..
not sorta rich..REALLY Rich.

But that Capitalism when the Example is Carmakers, is bad.
When its MOVIEMAKERS (ie michael moore) its good.

And for all that heartbreak about "The Evils of Doing Away With Unions"
then PLEASE explain why he fires employs that try to organize a Union within his organization. (Ralph Nader does too) Tell me why he outsources his post-production..

Tell me why a cause he cried over..isnt good enough for HIS employees..

Tell me how THAT is not 100% hypocrisy.

Break that one down for me please.
Show my inconsistency.

You goofed yourself by even using the word right-wing spin.
You only THINK you understand my politics.


Your politics are pretty transparent Low, whether you think they are or not. You tend to tow the talking points and spin of the heavy leaning Right pretty often. I mean, you're practically "staffer" material for the Glen Beck show...lol.

First off, Michael Moore is rich because he spearheaded a message that people responded to. It just so happened to be in a medium that generated above average norms. I mean before Moore, documentaries DID NOT do good "business". The popularity of the film festival circuit is ultimately what brought him success in a market where that would have been impossible before. I highly doubt that even he thought he would ever gain this much popularity and success. I know for a fact that he donates LOADS of cash to various worthy causes. He doesn't wear his wealth on his sleeve, that's for sure and he tends to reinvest in projects for general awareness and social causes. Capitalism? Sure but in this case he earned it the hard/real way, unlike corporations.

Again, if you really want egg on your face; source me the original story that deals with Michael's supposed "Union Busting" antics. I'm waiting...

The "outsourcing" thing is just silly Rightwing claptrap. Production services were done by an American owned company that happened to be set up in Canada's "Little Hollywood". It happens ALL THE TIME and whether he directly had a hand in that decision making is dubious at best.

Michael Moore certainly commands his own form of "spin" but more often than not, he's right about many issues. Its up to us to find out for ourselves which bits are factual, and that means avoiding politically slanted mouth-pieces for our information.

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PostWed Sep 30, 2009 8:36 pm » by Soldierboy


Again.....very well put Low.
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PostWed Sep 30, 2009 9:17 pm » by Lowsix


darkplanet wrote:Your politics are pretty transparent Low, whether you think they are or not. You tend to tow the talking points and spin of the heavy leaning Right pretty often. I mean, you're practically "staffer" material for the Glen Beck show...lol.

First off, Michael Moore is rich because he spearheaded a message that people responded to. It just so happened to be in a medium that generated above average norms. I mean before Moore, documentaries DID NOT do good "business". The popularity of the film festival circuit is ultimately what brought him success in a market where that would have been impossible before. I highly doubt that even he thought he would ever gain this much popularity and success. I know for a fact that he donates LOADS of cash to various worthy causes. He doesn't wear his wealth on his sleeve, that's for sure and he tends to reinvest in projects for general awareness and social causes. Capitalism? Sure but in this case he earned it the hard/real way, unlike corporations.

Again, if you really want egg on your face; source me the original story that deals with Michael's supposed "Union Busting" antics. I'm waiting...

The "outsourcing" thing is just silly Rightwing claptrap. Production services were done by an American owned company that happened to be set up in Canada's "Little Hollywood". It happens ALL THE TIME and whether he directly had a hand in that decision making is dubious at best.

Michael Moore certainly commands his own form of "spin" but more often than not, he's right about many issues. Its up to us to find out for ourselves which bits are factual, and that means avoiding politically slanted mouth-pieces for our information.


1. Yes I would love some egg on my face. Problem is, it wont be you putting it there.
You wanted a source...well here it is. From his own home town of Flint Michigan..
Of COURSE you'll blow it off as right wing spin. That's what you do when you're proven wrong
(particularly after saying stupid shit like "egg on my face")
Just pretend it didnt happen, say my sources are liars, and say the word Right Wing a few times, right? √

Again, you clearly don't understand my politics..theyre a little more complex than youd choose to believe, just dont have time or patience for shills that appear to cater to my desire for something better, while misleading, Editing, obfuscating, and playing dirty pool, to APPEAR like the good guy. It's an act..I bought it once, then i looked under the hood. I was a disappointed customer. So you cant pretend i don't have a heart either. I just hate the Bullshit artists..

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/ ... 1857.shtml
"Even Michael Moore’s hometown newspaper is slamming the filmmaker over revelations contained in Peter Schweizer’s blockbuster new book.

In "Do As I Say (Not As I Do): Profiles in Liberal Hypocrisy," Schweizer exposes Moore's "fake public persona,” the Flint Journal states in a review.

Moore proudly points to his upbringing in the working-class Michigan city, a former United Auto Workers Union stronghold, and much of his movie "Roger & Me” was filmed there.

But Moore does his film production in Canada to avoid paying union scale and threatened to fire half of his TV show's writing staff when they wanted to join a union, reviewer David Forsmark reports after reading Schweizer’s book."

darkplanet wrote:I know for a fact that he donates LOADS of cash to various worthy causes.


Incorrect, in fact, he donates the MINIMUM amount required to retain his TAX EXEMPT status. Your facts are wrong.

darkplanet wrote:He doesn't wear his wealth on his sleeve, that's for sure

Of COURSE he doesnt, that would be TOO in your face..so instead, he wears the 'Joe Schmoe' Costume, TOPPED OFF with Foam Front gimme cap!!! Weehaw!, so suckers like you will buy the "schtick". "Hey Look at me y'all..Im one of YOU!" Now go see one of my six heavily misleading and HIGHLY misleadingly edited documentaries, (he fucked the POOCH on The Columbine shit) where I'll sprinkle some facts, with a lot of hand wringing and Sanctimonious stage presence..The people LOVE that shit.. See how that works? You bought it, and youre using it here..**cough** Good Game..sucker.

darkplanet wrote:Michael Moore certainly commands his own form of "spin"

"Honest" spin when HE does it, Transparent Right Wing talking points when i do it...and back them up with VERIFIABLE Egg free facts.. Gotcha.

darkplanet wrote:Its up to us to find out for ourselves which bits are factual, and that means avoiding politically slanted mouth-pieces for our information.


So here, youre admitting that his shit is not always up to par, not particularly or imminently trustable..because after all, Its up to US to verify what HE presents as facts...(your words), because he just MAY be a slanted mouthpiece for the Left, while living the lifestyle and stock portfolio of the right.. (have you seen it?..People claim he doesnt own a single share of Haliburton..He doesn't own a single share. He owns tens of thousands of shares including nearly 2,000 shares of Boeing, nearly 1,000 of Sonoco, more than 4,000 of Best Foods, more than 3,000 of Eli Lilly, more than 8,000 of Bank One and more than 2,000 of Halliburton, the company most vilified by Moore in "Fahrenheit 9/11.") (referenced from.."Do as I Say, Not as I Do"..simon&shuster) You know what libel and slander are? They are complex terms which means if an author cannot VERIFY his claims, multibillion dollar publishers wont touch material like this..Got it?

Sounds like someone firmly embedded on the right in their daily lives..

So where were we?
You were saying something about Egg...

And you would disappoint if you didn't just flop around and claim that THIS book isnt a valid source, and then try to insult me some more with a cute witticism or two.. because it doesnt back YOUR transparent politics. So i anxiously await your denial.
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PostWed Sep 30, 2009 9:44 pm » by Darkplanet


LowSix wrote:
darkplanet wrote:Your politics are pretty transparent Low, whether you think they are or not. You tend to tow the talking points and spin of the heavy leaning Right pretty often. I mean, you're practically "staffer" material for the Glen Beck show...lol.

First off, Michael Moore is rich because he spearheaded a message that people responded to. It just so happened to be in a medium that generated above average norms. I mean before Moore, documentaries DID NOT do good "business". The popularity of the film festival circuit is ultimately what brought him success in a market where that would have been impossible before. I highly doubt that even he thought he would ever gain this much popularity and success. I know for a fact that he donates LOADS of cash to various worthy causes. He doesn't wear his wealth on his sleeve, that's for sure and he tends to reinvest in projects for general awareness and social causes. Capitalism? Sure but in this case he earned it the hard/real way, unlike corporations.

Again, if you really want egg on your face; source me the original story that deals with Michael's supposed "Union Busting" antics. I'm waiting...

The "outsourcing" thing is just silly Rightwing claptrap. Production services were done by an American owned company that happened to be set up in Canada's "Little Hollywood". It happens ALL THE TIME and whether he directly had a hand in that decision making is dubious at best.

Michael Moore certainly commands his own form of "spin" but more often than not, he's right about many issues. Its up to us to find out for ourselves which bits are factual, and that means avoiding politically slanted mouth-pieces for our information.


1. Yes I would love some egg on my face. Problem is, it wont be you putting it there.
You wanted a source...well here it is. From his own home town of Flint Michigan..
Of COURSE you'll blow it off as right wing spin. That's what you do when you're proven wrong
(particularly after saying stupid shit like "egg on my face")
Just pretend it didnt happen, say my sources are liars, and say the word Right Wing a few times, right? √

Again, you clearly don't understand my politics..theyre a little more complex than youd choose to believe, just dont have time or patience for shills that appear to cater to my desire for something better, while misleading, Editing, obfuscating, and playing dirty pool, to APPEAR like the good guy. It's an act..I bought it once, then i looked under the hood. I was a disappointed customer. So you cant pretend i don't have a heart either. I just hate the Bullshit artists..

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/ ... 1857.shtml
"Even Michael Moore’s hometown newspaper is slamming the filmmaker over revelations contained in Peter Schweizer’s blockbuster new book.

In "Do As I Say (Not As I Do): Profiles in Liberal Hypocrisy," Schweizer exposes Moore's "fake public persona,” the Flint Journal states in a review.

Moore proudly points to his upbringing in the working-class Michigan city, a former United Auto Workers Union stronghold, and much of his movie "Roger & Me” was filmed there.

But Moore does his film production in Canada to avoid paying union scale and threatened to fire half of his TV show's writing staff when they wanted to join a union, reviewer David Forsmark reports after reading Schweizer’s book."

darkplanet wrote:I know for a fact that he donates LOADS of cash to various worthy causes.


Incorrect, in fact, he donates the MINIMUM amount required to retain his TAX EXEMPT status. Your facts are wrong.

darkplanet wrote:He doesn't wear his wealth on his sleeve, that's for sure

Of COURSE he doesnt, that would be TOO in your face..so instead, he wears the 'Joe Schmoe' Costume, TOPPED OFF with Foam Front gimme cap!!! Weehaw!, so suckers like you will buy the "schtick". "Hey Look at me y'all..Im one of YOU!" Now go see one of my six heavily misleading and HIGHLY misleadingly edited documentaries, (he fucked the POOCH on The Columbine shit) where I'll sprinkle some facts, with a lot of hand wringing and Sanctimonious stage presence..The people LOVE that shit.. See how that works? You bought it, and youre using it here..**cough** Good Game..sucker.

darkplanet wrote:Michael Moore certainly commands his own form of "spin"

"Honest" spin when HE does it, Transparent Right Wing talking points when i do it...and back them up with VERIFIABLE Egg free facts.. Gotcha.

darkplanet wrote:Its up to us to find out for ourselves which bits are factual, and that means avoiding politically slanted mouth-pieces for our information.


So here, youre admitting that his shit is not always up to par, not particularly or imminently trustable..because after all, Its up to US to verify what HE presents as facts...(your words), because he just MAY be a slanted mouthpiece for the Left, while living the lifestyle and stock portfolio of the right.. (have you seen it?..People claim he doesnt own a single share of Haliburton..He doesn't own a single share. He owns tens of thousands of shares including nearly 2,000 shares of Boeing, nearly 1,000 of Sonoco, more than 4,000 of Best Foods, more than 3,000 of Eli Lilly, more than 8,000 of Bank One and more than 2,000 of Halliburton, the company most vilified by Moore in "Fahrenheit 9/11.") (referenced from.."Do as I Say, Not as I Do"..simon&shuster) You know what libel and slander are? They are complex terms which means if an author cannot VERIFY his claims, multibillion dollar publishers wont touch material like this..Got it?

Sounds like someone firmly embedded on the right in their daily lives..

So where were we?
You were saying something about Egg...

And you would disappoint if you didn't just flop around and claim that THIS book isnt a valid source, and then try to insult me some more with a cute witticism or two.. because it doesnt back YOUR transparent politics. So i anxiously await your denial.


I have a day job Low so I'll have to dedicate a couple evenings to completely melting your brain with facts. You want an info war, you just messed with the wrong dude ;)

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PostWed Sep 30, 2009 10:24 pm » by Captchaos


Hmmm what to do? Who to side with?
The choice should be easy.
On the 9/8/09 i lost my job of almost 10 years, i like many others now have no health insurance. In the past when my wife, kids, or i needed to see the doc' we went. My chief complaint prior to losing my job was the $250. a week for the family coverage that came out of my check each week. Now this has changed for me as it has for many peps' across the globe.
What do i/we do when it's time to see the doc?
I know, you sing on the dotted line and take responsibility.
*w/ no insurance.........For Me
Will they give me a MRI w/o insurance? How the hell and i going to pay for my MS meds' @ $1,200.00 a month, not including the other slu' of pain meds' i take?
For my 12 year old
She has had 2 major spinal reconstuction surgeries in the last 2 years. What happens if and when she needs another? Will the specialist see her now?...
For my wife and 6yr old?
.......lol
(get a new job and NOT get the coverage we need because of pre-existing ,bs' im screwed)

When Obama came into office I was hoping for some kind of healthcare reform.
Now I/we need it more than ever.
Something needs to be done to ease this countries pain, across the board.
My wish is that our people & governments could see past the disinfo and left or rightwinged politics BS, and do what is best for the country, before this illfaithed country gets really sick beyond fixing .
Grow some balls America . Just sign and take responsibility for your people & country not your own personal wealth!
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PostWed Sep 30, 2009 10:46 pm » by Lowsix


darkplanet wrote:I have a day job Low so I'll have to dedicate a couple evenings to completely melting your brain with facts. You want an info war, you just messed with the wrong dude ;)


Spend all the time you need to do to prove that
"somebody on the interwebz is wrong".
Im not terribly worried about it...my mind is made up, it will be wasted effort on your part. But you do your thing.

And Capt, HELL YES, we need reform.
Im in a very similar boat...

This bill wasnt it. In a LOT of areas.
cant slam through a redesign of the entire multi Bazillion dollar health care system in three months while the economy is folding.
Cant be done correctly like that..
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