Nature Without A Grand Architect?

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PostMon Jul 21, 2014 2:18 pm » by One-23


This thread was born out of curiosity and confusion.

Just want to make it clear, I'm not into creationism or the idea of a Grand Architect. I'm a firm believer in evolution and science, even if I do find myself constantly questioning it.

The question itself is kind of paradoxical, but I guess that's what holds my curiosity.

So Life at it's most basic level is supremely complex and offers up a multitude of variations and designs to marvel at. It's simply breathtaking to look at once the complexities are put to one side.

It's taken eons for life forms to adapt and evolve in to the plethora of shapes, sizes and colours. For Flora and Fauna to sub divide into sub species and for them to adapt and evolve into even more diverse sub species.

I appreciate the evolution of a species is determined by survival of the fittest, the environmental conditions and minute molecular changes over vast periods of time.

So here's the question...... "What governs natures ability to evolve into meticulous designs and creations without the influence of a Grand Architect? At what point does a species say, we've cracked it, this is the design we will stick with?"

Is it a conscious decision made within the species?

Just an example below of what I'm getting at.

25 Incredible Camouflaged Animals


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While some animals are so dangerous that they don't require hiding their presence, others rely on deception and camouflage to prevent themselves from meeting a fateful end at the hands (or jaws rather) of a predator. See if you can spot these 25 incredible camouflaged animals in their natural habitats.

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Bat Faced Toad
Common Baron Caterpillar
Dead Leaf Mantis
Mossy Leaf-Tailed Gecko
Dead Leaf Butterfly
Stonefish
Fantastic Leaf-Tail Gecko
Wolf Spider
Ghost Mantis
Phyllomimus
Great Grey Owl
Pale-Throated Three-Toed Sloth
Southern Rock Agama Lizard
Leafy Sea Dragon
Pygmy Seahorse
Right Eyed Flounder
Orchid Mantis
Egyptian Nightjar
Cuttlefish
Leaf Katydid
Chameleon
Paradoxophyla Palmata
Knobbly Crab Spider
Horned Rockdweller Dragonfly
Indonesian Mimic Octopus
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PostMon Jul 21, 2014 3:02 pm » by Slith


That's a great vid. Amazing.

To answer your question, I'm going to compare it to humans if I may, and keep in mind, it's only an opinion. Evolution like this over time has made these creatures adapt to their environment for self preservation. Like us, who in the winter put on heavy clothing to stay warm, and in the summer put on shorts and a t-shirt. We adapt to our environment. It's just taken these creatures longer to do it, but I also think they've done a better job than we have


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PostMon Jul 21, 2014 3:17 pm » by One-23


Slith wrote:That's a great vid. Amazing.

To answer your question, I'm going to compare it to humans if I may, and keep in mind, it's only an opinion. Evolution like this over time has made these creatures adapt to their environment for self preservation. Like us, who in the winter put on heavy clothing to stay warm, and in the summer put on shorts and a t-shirt. We adapt to our environment. It's just taken these creatures longer to do it, but I also think they've done a better job than we have




I whole heartedly agree with what you say and fully understand the mechanics of evolution. What I don't understand is, at what point does a species decide "I'm going to be a leaf now, That's the perfect disguise for me". Does that species make a conscious decision to use the design of a leaf? I suppose what I'm getting at is in the absence of a Grand Architect, What factors in the intelligent designs in nature.

Evolution plays a major part in diversity, but when we get down to the minute details, such as camouflage, what part becomes design and not chance?
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PostMon Jul 21, 2014 4:40 pm » by Rkobilan


Without a grand architect how can you have intelligent design? Where does the intelligence come from? Single cell creatures react as they have no intelligence.

Also, Darwin's theory is just that a theory as it's not been proven.

If Man were to have evolved from anything, then there should be a chronological order that Man could see his evolution come from. So, with Man having four blood types and tracing them back into the creatures it leaves you with nothing. If Man came from fish or reptiles then our blood types would be traceable like DNA in humans all the way back to the reptile or fish or whatever Man came from. However, that has yet to be accomplished in today's science.

So if man evolved from Apes/chimps. What did Apes/chimps evolve from and so on and so on all the way back to what Amoeba or the like?

I believe and have the opinion that the word evolution should mean what Man/animal goes through in his life span rather than what Darwin states. Even with his bird species and the beak changes. That doesn't show evolution in a species but adaptation to the environment or is that what evolution real means?

What about plants and evolution? Without a Grand Architect do you think all of these plants would be here rather than a whole bunch of cross pollinated relatives of one plant species?

Mind of Plants : Documentary on The Intelligence of Plants

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeX6ST7 ... 2m8BtKmTKH
Last edited by Rkobilan on Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostMon Jul 21, 2014 4:50 pm » by Slith


Rkobilan

Well said :flop:
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PostMon Jul 21, 2014 8:51 pm » by Rkobilan


@One-23 Here's a thought for your ponderance.

In the Bible, Mathew chapter 10 verse 5-15 conveys a huge message. Within those versus you should be able to read that there is intelligent design.

I use that as an example as a one celled organism has intelligent design but is not intelligent.

The man referred to in that chapter tells his team to go past two groups of humans and go directly to those that need the most help. Kinda like a flood or bad storm sort to say where people from around the area pitch in to assist. But this guy and team goes in to cast out demons, heal lepers, and cure the sick.

That in itself should reflect and validate both intelligent design and a representation of the Grand Architect.

Intelligent design in that the team goes to the sickest of them.

Grand Architect in that there are three groups in the area, yet the team is told to go to the sickest of them all. Engineers don't waster time, and are meticulous in all their projects.

If there were No Grand Architect, Who then created this entirety man calls Earth, the sun, the Solar system, The Universe, and beyond?


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Summary, when you toss a whole bucnh of stuff into the air it all falls down. When the creator does it you see just like the Fibonacci you get a fractal that continues to expand. just like our universe. It's in the plants too.

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PostMon Jul 21, 2014 9:13 pm » by Truthdefender


So here's the question...... "What governs natures ability to evolve into meticulous designs and creations without the influence of a Grand Architect? At what point does a species say, we've cracked it, this is the design we will stick with?"


Your question is why I believe evolution to be a load of crap, contrived by certain minds as a way to distance themselves from God. This is not opinion, they admitted it. Unfortunately 'science' has followed this 'enlightenment' thinking to such an extreme, much of biology has been tainted ever since.

It also confuses me how people who understand computer programs can believe in unguided evolution. Each physical trait, right down to fur patterns, is pre-set in the dna code. These may vary, (traits and gene dormancy/supremacy), but they do not change to something else on their own.






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PostMon Jul 21, 2014 10:47 pm » by Otomon


Nature without a great architect? What am I swish cheese? :bang;
I am energized 13 I am CHRISTalized 13 I am amplified 13 I detach from the illusions of matter 13 I no longer choose to play the unconscious role 13 I listen to my intuition 13 I am in my flow 13 I break free from all negative soul ties 13

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PostMon Jul 21, 2014 11:31 pm » by Giovanni


Nature without a great architect?
i say what a relief. :banana: :dancing:

nature can live without us, but we cannot live without nature.

how is that for Grand Architect

think about it. if there was a creator. why the hell didn't it create (nature cant live without us)

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PostTue Jul 22, 2014 12:41 pm » by One-23


I'm in no way attempting to ridicule someones core beliefs and I hold reverence for those that wish to find answers in spirituality.

Simple arguments that refer to Holy Scriptures that profess to state that Natural Law cannot exist without the existence of a Grand Architect are unsubstantial IMO.

The same Holy Scriptures that were penned by Man For Man.

No doubt historical references are common throughout the Holy Scriptures, with some being literal and others being massively fabricated. But I don't really want to go down the whole" Religion and Ethics" route just to answer this question.

It's too easy to reference verses to answer complex questions, without any validated proof.

Natures too complicated and fragile to have such a simplistic resolution as the existence of a Grand Architect, without giving it the respect it duly merits.

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