New dinosaur that predates T. rex found in Utah

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PostThu Nov 07, 2013 1:36 pm » by Evildweeb


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New dinosaur that predates T. rex found in Utah

Associated Press
By BRADY McCOMBS

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — Paleontologists on Wednesday unveiled a new dinosaur discovered four years ago in southern Utah that proves giant tyrant dinosaurs like the Tyrannosaurus rex were around 10 million years earlier than previously believed.

A full skeletal replica of the carnivore — the equivalent of the great uncle of the T. rex — was on display at the Natural History Museum of Utah alongside a 3-D model of the head and a large painted mural of the dinosaur roaming a shoreline.

It was the public's first glimpse at the new species, which researchers named Lythronax argestes (LY'-throw-nax ar-GES'-tees). The first part of the name means "king of gore," and the second part is derived from poet Homer's southwest wind.

The fossils were found in the Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument in November 2009, and a team of paleontologists spent the past four years digging them up and traveling the world to confirm they were a new species.

Paleontologists believe the dinosaur lived 80 million years ago in the late Cretaceous Period on a landmass in the flooded central region of North America.

The discovery offers valuable new insight into the evolution of the ferocious tyrannosaurs that have been made famous in movies and captured the awe of school children and adults alike, said Thomas Holtz Jr., a vertebrate paleontologist at the University of Maryland department of geology.

"This shows that these big, banana-tooth bruisers go back to the very first days of the giant tyrant dinosaurs," said Holtz, who reviewed the findings. "This one is the first example of these kind of dinosaurs being the ruler of the land."

The new dinosaur likely was a bit smaller than the Tyrannosaurus rex but was otherwise similar, said Mark Loewen, a University of Utah paleontologist who co-authored a journal article about the discovery with fellow University of Utah paleontologist Randall Irmis.

It was 24 feet long and 8 feet tall at the hip, and was covered in scales and feathers, Loewen said. Asked what the carnivorous dinosaur ate, Loewen responded: "Whatever it wants."


FULL STORY, PICS & VID @ YAHOO.COM

http://news.yahoo.com/dinosaur-predates ... 38100.html



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PostThu Nov 07, 2013 2:38 pm » by Slith


They've made quite a few discoveries in the last few years. Especially full skeletons in Alberta. I always like how they say "New Species". I think they may want to change that term to something more fitting.

Good post :flop:
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PostThu Nov 07, 2013 4:47 pm » by Kinninigan


:flop:

"and was covered in scales and feathers"



that statement means ALOT, because the expert Jack Horner even said dinosaurs are more related to birds and not huge scaled reptiles

Alpha-draco want us to think they are scaled 1200 reptiles, but they look more like birds

its been a huge dino/reptilian dis-info campaign

and t-rex was actually a scavenger, not anything like in the movies. His large jaw was for crushing bones and scraps off animals already half eaten by faster predators, t-rex was nothing more then a vulture, not an elite hunter. And probley had feathers, making him not look so fierce and scary!













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PostFri Nov 08, 2013 1:27 am » by Evildweeb


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Until something better comes along - I'm gonna follow the theory (not sure who had it first) that a LOT of dinosaur species are actually known species younglings..

It answers the question "Where are all the baby dinosaurs?"

So they better start watching what they call a NEW species which may actually be an old species' younger version.

Just sayin..............

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PostFri Nov 08, 2013 1:41 am » by Toxic32


Kinninigan wrote::flop:

"and was covered in scales and feathers"



that statement means ALOT, because the expert Jack Horner even said dinosaurs are more related to birds and not huge scaled reptiles

Alpha-draco want us to think they are scaled 1200 reptiles, but they look more like birds

its been a huge dino/reptilian dis-info campaign

and t-rex was actually a scavenger, not anything like in the movies. His large jaw was for crushing bones and scraps off animals already half eaten by faster predators, t-rex was nothing more then a vulture, not an elite hunter. And probley had feathers, making him not look so fierce and scary!


Jesus how do you know all that? I must have missed the film! You don't have teeth like that if you are just the local bully stealing from others. I have no doubt that given the opportunity of an easy meal they would have taken it. So do all predictors. Including us. But those teeth are socialised and have evolved over millions of years. If they just evolved to strip meat off dead animals they would't be shaped like steak knives for killing and cutting. Take a look at any scavengers teeth and you will see they adapted to strip chew and crunch. No so with a large killer animal....It's all kill as quick as possible. Long sharp and deadly.














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PostFri Nov 08, 2013 2:01 am » by Kinninigan


Toxic32 wrote:
Jesus how do you know all that? I must have missed the film! You don't have teeth like that if you are just the local bully stealing from others. I have no doubt that given the opportunity of an easy meal they would have taken it. So do all predictors. Including us. But those teeth are socialised and have evolved over millions of years. If they just evolved to strip meat off dead animals they would't be shaped like steak knives for killing and cutting. Take a look at any scavengers teeth and you will see they adapted to strip chew and crunch. No so with a large killer animal....It's all kill as quick as possible. Long sharp and deadly.




ALOT of dino researchers agree with this, and that t rex's skeleton may have been put together wrong in museums.

T-Rex's teeth are really not that big compared to the size of animals then, and even as a scavenger you need razor sharp teeth to eat dinosaurs

Here is a good article on the debate...
:look:






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Tyrannosaurus Hunter versus Scavenger

Experts continually debate where the tyrannosaurs were hunters, scavengers opportunistic feeders. The discussion about the feeding patterns of T. rex and other large carnivorous dinosaurs remains active. Most paleontologists have portrayed them as highly active predators, while others see them as obligate scavengers (Lambe 1917; Colinvaux 1978; Halstead and Halsted 1981; Barsbold 1983; Horner and Lessem 1993; Horner 1994; Horner and Dobb 1997). The scavenger hypothesis has been re-proposed by Jack Horner in the 1990s and appeared in Horner's 1993 book "The Complete T. rex".

Predator Argument

The ocular cavities of Tyrannosaurus are positioned so that the eyes would point forward, like a lion or a human. A scavenger rex would not need the advanced depth perception that stereoscopic vision allows. Stereoscopic vision is essential for predatory animals who catch other animals (owls for example), but has secondary importance for animals who are chased (such as rabbits or deer).

T. rex had an incredibly large and powerful jaw with serrated teeth, one bite could break most anything in half. This was a terrible weapon. Certainly if T. rex was a scavenger, it would not have to be so well armed..

There were also the large powerful legs. Some scientists believe that T. rex could run as fast as 30 miles per hours. This ability would prove very helpful to a predator chasing prey. It was not needed by a scavengers whose meal was already dead and just waiting to be devoured.

Scavenger Argument

Some scientists think that T-Rex didn't chase down its prey at all, but was merely a scavenger. As a scavenger he fed off of already dead animals, killed by old age, disease, or other carnivores,
Paleontologist Jack Horner of the Museum of the Rockies is leading proponent of the theory that T. rex could not have been a predator. He maintains that its eyes were too small to see distant prey; its arms were too small to hold victims; and that is huge legs would have resulted in it moving slowly. He also points out that its large olfactory lobes provided it with an acute sense of smell. Vultures also have large olfactory lobes which they use to smell dead bodies at great distance.
There is no fossil evidence for predation. Bones have been found with tyrannosaur teeth embedded in them or scratched by them, but there is no evidence to show that the animals were not already dead. A bone that showed evidence of a healed tyrannosaur bite would be strong evidence for predation.

Speed

Horner's main argument, which is generally agreed upon, is that T. rex was a slow walker and not a runner. Therefore, Horner said, it is more likely to be a scavenger. However, predators do not necessarily have to be swift. Speed can be measured in some ways, using an analogy with living animals and sports (the femur/tibia ratio), using biomechanics, or using footprints (trace fossils). For instance, bicyclists with longer thighs are said to have better endurance. Horner claims that the femur (thigh bone) to tibia (shin bone) ratio (>1, like in almost all large theropods) suggests a specialized walker, rather than a runner. Thus it was a slow scavenger rather than a fast running predator. However, T. rex's legs were better designed for speed than its probable prey.

Another argument from Jack Horner regarding T. rex's slow speed are its useless forelimbs mentioned above. It could not catch itself, should it fall over in a high speed hunt, (and perhaps sustain severe injuries due to its heavy skull size) and would therefore have to play it safe by walking rather than running. This claim has been substantiated by Farlow et al. (1995): they used a mathematical model using impact forces and decelerations for an animal weighing 6000 kg to gauge that a fall at very high speed (20 m/s or 72 km/h, the top speed used in most models) would kill it. They speculate a top speed of adult individuals of about 10 m/s (36 km/h).

The claim that T. rex's legs were not suitably adapted for high speed is an important point independent of the predator/scavenger debate. A paper in Nature (Hutchinson amd Garcia 2002) � Tyrannosaurus was not a fast runner � used a mathematical model (based on chickens and alligators) to gauge the leg muscle mass needed for some top speeds. They found that some proposed top speeds (40 km/h or 25 mph, or even 72 km/h or 45 mph) are quite unfeasible, because they require very large leg muscles (needing ~86% of total body mass as leg muscles). They specify a very rough upper estimate of 18 km/h or 11 mph.

However, those figures depend on the popular assumption that T. rex weighed around 6-8 tons. Some have suggested that "T. rex" may have weighed a mere four tons, since its bones were rather hollow and its breathing style would have required less mass. This would probably result in a much higher top speed. Even if T. rex or other large theropods were rather slow (as argued by Farlow et al. 1995; Hutchinson and Garcia 2002), it does not necessarily mean they were incapable of hunting prey. The dinosaurs they probably hunted were likely even slower, and ambush tactics cannot be ruled out.

However, the fact that T. rex had longer femurs and legs than other theropods points to the fact that T. rex could indeed reach higher speeds than implicated. Secretary birds had long femurs and legs to improve the distance covered by each step, so even when taking a "slow pace" T. rex would still be moving 12 to 15 mph (the speed of a sprinting human). (Hutchinson and Garcia 2002) The mathematical model of chickens and alligators was not an accurate parallel of T. rex in most respects. For one thing, T. rex was a bipedal carnivore (unlike alligators), and the skeletal structure was more streamlined to decrease wind resistance (unlike chickens). The most important point is that no person in this time has examined the muscle structure of the T. rex, so one cannot be completely sure of the speed of T. rex.

Opportunist

Other scientists argue that scavenging for food and hunting aren't mutually exclusive activities and T-Rex might have done both depending on what was easiest. Such is the case with lions in modern Africa. They hunt when they have to, but are happy to steal a carcass from a smaller predator, like the hyena, when they can.

They point out that its panoramic vision and great sense of smell would aid both a predator and a scavenger. As far as the lack of a fossil bone showing a healed T. rex bite, one asked, "What is going to survive a T. rex bite?"

There it not enough evidence exists to say for sure how T. rex earned its daily bread. Most paleontologists believe that tyrannosaurs were eating machines that would consume protein where they could find it.


http://www.dinosaur-world.com/tyrannosa ... venger.htm








My thread on Jack Horner and dinosaurs are more like birds, and mis-indentified.. :look:

post920577.html?hilit=shape%20shifting%20dinosaurs#p920577













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