New Iranian missiles for Gaza,Syria topsup Hizballah stocks

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PostTue Oct 27, 2009 2:30 pm » by Proto


ogmios wrote:So you don't believe there is a biblical justification for zionism.


i believe more in historical justification ,there is no doubts that this was
the historical house of the jews ,we didn't left it out of will ,we where
forced out ,and where scattered around the globe for thousands of years .
all the generations in exile always dreamt on the day they will come back to israel,
we are connected to this land just as much as the Palestinians .

and if we look at it from a even deeper point of view ,
i think both the israelis and palestinians are decendents of
the canaanites and other ancient nations of the middle east,
i even read somewhere gene study that confirmed it but cant find the link .
we both have rights on this land but we both are alike (idiots) like two
brothers fighting who will get the room instead of sharing it .

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PostTue Oct 27, 2009 2:50 pm » by Aragajag


.... except the Holland girls.
I had much more repaired.

sorry dream state
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PostTue Oct 27, 2009 4:18 pm » by Ogmios


i believe more in historical justification ,there is no doubts that this was
the historical house of the jews ,we didn't left it out of will ,we where
forced out ,and where scattered around the globe for thousands of years .
all the generations in exile always dreamt on the day they will come back to israel,
we are connected to this land just as much as the Palestinians .

and if we look at it from a even deeper point of view ,
i think both the israelis and palestinians are decendents of
the canaanites and other ancient nations of the middle east,
i even read somewhere gene study that confirmed it but cant find the link .
we both have rights on this land but we both are alike (idiots) like two
brothers fighting who will get the room instead of sharing it .


So if the Spanish American's decide to go back to Spain and Portugal, forcefully remove all of the people there, and aquire the land that would be ok because they have a historical justification? Or here in Scotland we decided to go back and just take Ireland because we came from there originally, regardless of what has happened in the ensuing 1400 years.

Of course it would be wrong.

You say we:
we both have rights on this land but we both are alike (idiots) like two
brothers fighting who will get the room instead of sharing it
as though it's a fair fight. Israel has F16 fighterjets, tanks, phosphorous bombs and a shitload of other murderous hardware - not to mention the H-bomb. Most of it supplied by America.

I am against Israel's actions because I believe this situation is going to cause the next world war and I don't know if civilisation (if you can call it that) could survive it.
"God is a concept by which we measure our pain"
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PostTue Oct 27, 2009 5:02 pm » by Proto


ogmios wrote:So if the Spanish American's decide to go back to Spain and Portugal, forcefully remove all of the people there, and aquire the land that would be ok because they have a historical justification? Or here in Scotland we decided to go back and just take Ireland because we came from there originally, regardless of what has happened in the ensuing 1400 years.
Of course it would be wrong.


again you prove your lack of knowledge in history , Israel didn't forcefully removed
the Palestinians , they fled because they thought the jews will be massacred
and they would come back as winners afterward .
there where some events of forced evacuations which where the fringe
of the fringe and are totally wrong ,but the majority fled .
remember the wiki link ? the next bit is from there .

The impending Arab invasion provided an incentive for Palestinian-Arabs to leave in the expectation that they would soon return. In 1948 Jews were known as a nation with no military tradition who had easily been slaughtered over the preceding century, while the Arabs were a famous warrior nation and an Arab victory was widely anticipated.

Fighting between the Arab and Jewish communities of Palestine began in November 1947, immediately after the UN decision to create a Jewish state. The Arab States declared they would greet any attempt to form a Jewish state with war.[38] Dr Izzat Tannous, the Palestinian Arab representative to the UN declared that

We are now at war, a war in which no quarter will be asked and none will be given. It will be a battle of life and death and woe to the vanquished.[39]

Fighting spread as the British gradually withdrew. The Arab League could not invade before the British withdrew but planned to invade the day after the British left. In this phase, before the British departure, the struggle was a civil war. Arab forces consisted of village militias buttressed by the Arab Liberation Army, a force composed largely of Arab volunteers from across the Middle-East but which included European mercenaries including British deserters, German Nazis [40] and veterans of the (Bosnian Moslem) Croatian Waffen SS (whose commander had been the Palestinian Mufti of Jerusalem). The Jews had their militias (including many World War II veterans) and a several thousand strong professional force called the Palmach.

Initially the Arabs had the advantage as the British maintained an embargo on Palestine's seas preventing the Jews from importing arms or man power while Arab states could supply local Arabs who also occupied more strategic areas and out-numbered the Jews. The Jews, however, were better organized and believed themselves to be fighting for their lives. Jewish taxes had funded both the British army in Palestine and British support for the Arab population so the Jewish economy benefited from the British departure while the Arab economy collapsed as the war expanded. The Jews had an elected government (the Va'ad Leumi) already in place with an independent taxation system.

In the early stages 100,000 Palestinian Arabs, mainly the upper-classes and better off fled to neighbouring states.[41] Before May 1948, 150,000 more fled or were evicted during fighting as the Jews slowly overpowered the Arab forces. Jewish preparation for the Arab invasion led to the eviction of hostile Arab communities who controlled access routes. In Haifa the Arab Higher Committee (who were based in Syria) refused to allow a negotiated cease fire with the Jews or allow the Arab population to remain under Jewish control thus contributing to the departure of the city's Arab population.


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PostTue Oct 27, 2009 5:58 pm » by Ogmios


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Un ... ing_Israel

Have a look. A veritable catalogue of war crimes. The cheek of Israel - defying the UN, without whom they would not exist - really is astonishing. And it's a dangerous game too.

The full text of Resolution 3379:

3379 (XXX). Elimination of all forms of racial discrimination

The General Assembly,

Recalling its resolution 1904 (XVIII) of 20 November 1963, proclaiming the United Nations Declaration on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination, and in particular its affirmation that "any doctrine of racial differentiation or superiority is scientifically false, morally condemnable, socially unjust and dangerous" and its expression of alarm at "the manifestations of racial discrimination still in evidence in some areas in the world, some of which are imposed by certain Governments by means of legislative, administrative or other measures",

Recalling also that, in its resolution 3151 G (XXVIII) of 14 December 1973, the General Assembly condemned, inter alia, the unholy alliance between South African racism and zionism,

Taking note of the Declaration of Mexico on the Equality of Women and Their Contribution to Development and Peace 1975, proclaimed by the World Conference of the International Women's Year, held at Mexico City from 19 June to 2 July 1975, which promulgated the principle that "international co-operation and peace require the achievement of national liberation and independence, the elimination of colonialism and neo-colonialism, foreign occupation, zionism, apartheid and racial discrimination in all its forms, as well as the recognition of the dignity of peoples and their right to self-determination",

Taking note also of resolution 77 (XII) adopted by the Assembly of Heads of State and Government of the Organization of African Unity at its twelfth ordinary session, held at Kampala from 28 July to 1 August 1975, which considered "that the racist regime in occupied Palestine and the racist regime in Zimbabwe and South Africa have a common imperialist origin, forming a whole and having the same racist structure and being organically linked in their policy aimed at repression of the dignity and integrity of the human being",

Taking note also of the Political Declaration and Strategy to Strengthen International Peace and Security and to Intensify Solidarity and Mutual Assistance among Non-Aligned Countries, adopted at the Conference of Ministers for Foreign Affairs of Non-Aligned Countries held at Lima from 25 to 30 August 1975, which most severely condemned zionism as a threat to world peace and security and called upon all countries to oppose this racist and imperalist ideology,

Determines that Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination.
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PostTue Oct 27, 2009 6:08 pm » by Ogmios


I read somewhere that the Ashkenazis (and I'm not sure what that means) didn't come from ancient Israel at all. I don't know enough about that to really have an opinion.
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PostTue Oct 27, 2009 6:11 pm » by Pindz


I heard somewhere that the "ancient israel" never existed.

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PostTue Oct 27, 2009 6:19 pm » by Ogmios


I had another thread on about the origins of the biblical Israel. Israel was the name given to Jacob. The names of his twelve sons became the names of the twelve tribes. When you think of it, Israel is not mentioned as a place at all - I don't think. There is talk of Canaan, Judea, Jerusalem etc. There is also talk of the tribes of Israel, sons of Israel, children of Israel, but I don't think it's ever mentioned as a place
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PostTue Oct 27, 2009 10:02 pm » by Proto


ogmios wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel

The full text of Resolution 3379:

3379 (XXX). Elimination of all forms of racial discrimination

Determines that Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nat ... ution_3379

Paul Johnson and other historians argue that November 10, 1975 United Nations General Assembly Resolution 3379 that labelled "Zionism" as "racism" was orchestrated by the USSR, even though opponents of the USSR on the Council did not oppose the resolution. It was rescinded by the Resolution 4686 in December 1991, which coincided with the collapse of the Soviet Union.

In his address to the United Nations General Assembly the same day, 10. November 1975, Israeli Ambassador Chaim Herzog stated:

"I can point with pride to the Arab ministers who have served in my government; to the Arab deputy speaker of my Parliament; to Arab officers and men serving of their own volition in our border and police defense forces, frequently commanding Jewish troops; to the hundreds of thousands of Arabs from all over the Middle East crowding the cities of Israel every year; to the thousands of Arabs from all over the Middle East coming for medical treatment to Israel; to the peaceful coexistence which has developed; to the fact that Arabic is an official language in Israel on a par with Hebrew; to the fact that it is as natural for an Arab to serve in public office in Israel as it is incongruous to think of a Jew serving in any public office in an Arab country, indeed being admitted to many of them. Is that racism? It is not! That... is Zionism."

In his response he also said that the resolution was:

"another manifestation of the bitter anti-Semitic, anti-Jewish hatred which animates Arab society. Who would have believed that in this year, 1975, the malicious falsehoods of the 'Elders of Zion' would be distributed officially by Arab governments? Who would have believed that we would today contemplate an Arab society which teaches the vilest anti-Jewish hate in the kindergartens?... We are being attacked by a society which is motivated by the most extreme form of racism known in the world today... expressed so succinctly in the words of the leader of the PLO, Yassir Arafat, in his opening address at a symposium in Tripoli, Libya: "There will be no presence in the region other than the Arab presence..."

Herzog ended his statement, while holding a document of the resolution, with these words:

"For us, the Jewish people, this resolution based on hatred, falsehood and arrogance, is devoid of any moral or legal value. For us, the Jewish people, this is no more than a piece of paper and we shall treat it as such."

As he concluded his speech, Herzog tore the document in half.

ogmios wrote:I had another thread on about the origins of the biblical Israel. Israel was the name given to Jacob. The names of his twelve sons became the names of the twelve tribes. When you think of it, Israel is not mentioned as a place at all - I don't think. There is talk of Canaan, Judea, Jerusalem etc. There is also talk of the tribes of Israel, sons of Israel, children of Israel, but I don't think it's ever mentioned as a place


i think you proved your history knowledge is quite dire , how about you go learn
history instead ?

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PostTue Oct 27, 2009 10:23 pm » by Proto


concrete wrote:Silly question time. But. By following the religious beliefs of Judaism, and given approval of a rabbi, you can call yourself a jew. Am I wrong?
How does religious belief, make a race?


i don't know if you heard, but human beings are one race , there are no such
thing as different races genetically , so how religious makes race i don't know ,
however religion can form a nation ,which can be seen as collective of persons that
shares the same ideology (more or less) .

concrete wrote:I do recall a study done a while ago, that suggested that the people of what was palestine pre-1948 and sephardic jews are closer to the land than any Ashkenazi could ever dream for.


can you provide a legit link to such study ?


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