Not sure what to title this, but it is for you religious ppl

[Constabul Profile]

A simple discussion, i would like some input on. to see how you deal with such things dealing with your faith / belief system.


Below is a quote from another post, of one of our religious types, who exemplifies the Average Believer.
An i think this could be so in all religions, but this example involves Christianity in all it's revisionist forms and glories.

I still think Eliakim should get the Al Gore plaque. Telos isn't even here to claim his prize!

You clearly require more socks, 99 are not enough for you.

Shall I ask my heavenly Father to pay you a little visit socks? Just so that you know whose the boss?

So the question i ask, is, after reading such, < and i know a few of the replies that she got from her posting> what does this make you think?

the primary reply i saw, was to mention the use of ones god as a butler to do ones bidding, implying a hypocrisy in such a comment / act.

If you are one who believes in Miracles and prayer.< which by all accounts is apart of Christianity> and practice the act of prayer, and equate what is or isn't miracle worthy.
Do you not fall into the same category as attempting to use God as a servant / butler, to do, or help the coming about of desired affected you wish to see happen? Or label an event as a miracle, verses a tragedy
Isn't this in affect, as ridicules as the above poster seems in threatening the wrath of their god? Who by New testament standers is a benevolent God <Tho old testament wise is far from the case.>

Or are you one who can claim, or say, they are not following My god, or The Christian God..
how do you come by determining the difference?
Furthermore,
Can you say with authority, that the magic Mormon undies are not required?
Or is it a matter of your Making up your own version, to suit what you deem acceptable?
Again isn't that just revisionist creation, thus, apart from the real base, and in being so, just fictional?

Are you believing The Right Version? Because by it's own account, if you are not accepting of a certain clauses, then you are destined to a fiery abyss. So what makes you so sure you are the right one?
Or have you changed that concept too?

Disclaimer : I do not even entertain the ideas or theories of a creator, i can not say there is, or is not one given humans limited spectrum of Knowledge. An overall have no need of a creator to bring me happiness or fulfillment etc etc.
But i can say that no one person or group of people have this concept figured out. They only claim to.
So in the end this is more an exercise to provoke thought, and hopefully make others question their childhood influenced belief systems. if it makes you stronger in your belief to quantify such things and keep on trucking, more power to ya.
Guess it is like those who believe in the bible story of noahs ark, then find out the story came from the Epic of Gilgamesh, or that the three wise men traveling to see the birth of jesus was a story taken from the birth of the Buddha.
Have fun with that indeed.

[Samuelthemule Profile Website]

the only thing you can really say about belief is that you cannot say anything conclusive about belief

it is a personal, individual thing... belief.
I use bruce lee's little saying:
"take what works, discard what doesn't"... so simple right? just put it into practice.

there is nothing to fear, you know why you believe what you belief if you are 100% honest with yourself all the time, both logically and emotionally, and then you can speak your truth plainly and clearly at any time, without fear, because this approach, leads to conquering death: when you are honest about everything, and seek truth in all corners of the world, obscurity flees from you, and you realize, time and death are illusions, just like the illusion that you are only your body: don't you know that in science of today, they say, all the bodies cells and things that compose the body are changed every 7 years?
well... if you were just matter, easily explainable matter, then your consciousness would also go somewhere else, right? but matter is not all that matters


"if you had proof for what you believe, it would not be belief, but knowledge"...yup.

there simply is no final logical answer, that is why philosophy is still going, why science is still going, and why they can never be silent, but monks of all kinds can be: they use both halves of their brain, whereas most of the time philosophers and scientists are dominated left brain thinkers, which translates into right handedness (90% of the western world is right handed, LOL).
when you activate both halves, at the same time, amazing things start to happen

the most common method in discussing religions from the doubters perspective is the "reductio ad absurdum": reduce it to the absurd... but like blake said "mock on mock on, you throw the sand into the wind, the wind just blows it back again"...you use the reductio with the 'butler', mormon underpants, and so on, quite well, and appropriately, but still, it strikes me that you are trying to find things to argue about, instead of things to agree about. Which also has its place and time...

But If you really want an answer about the whole christ thing, basically it comes down to this: serving the higher self, at all costs, even penalty of death, but doing everything you can to help others to truly live, before that becomes necessary, if at all. Of course, you already know this, but i'm just reminding you.

God is not a butler, but you are his butler, god stands for, in my mind, guardian of divinity: like an inverse cerberus: there is a mighty guardian, warding off the unworthy from entering heaven, but you are him and he is you, in different amounts

do you know the lord's prayer?
doesn't this line answer your question?
"...your will be done, on earth, as it is in heaven..."
YOUR WILL, not my will. something higher, something greater than myself.
it comes down to a choice between these two options in the end: either you say, you are a fully realized god, now, and this is all a dream you created to entertain yourself, and it's just all nonsense, in the long run, and no one else really exists, or, there exists, within you, something greater than what you are now, which can come to fruition with patience and acceptance of your past failures, and you inflict, on yourself, a long compulsion to, as best as you possibly can, live up to an admittedly impossible standard. The easiest way to reach perfection is to recognize you cannot reach it, merely to fail as well as you possibly can, because in human terms, love is perfection, and perfection is relative to the individual and his abilities at that given time.

Everyone has their talents, so everyone has their way of serving others, and being served.
you might like francis of assissi's prayer:
divine master: make me an instrument of your piece,
lord, where the is chaos, let me bring order,
where there is darkness light,
hate, love,
despair, hope,
and so on:

for it is in giving that we receive,
and in forgiving that we are forgiven.

you can also call a prayer a mantra, if you find that more acceptable: something you chant to remind you of your goal and help you achieve it, which is what we call today, in science jargon, which i find totally unromantic and boring. a lot of the time, "neurolinguistic programming" and "autosuggestion"...
"your talents for use were made, what's a sun dial doing in the shade". lincoln...
If you simply hate prayers, and praying and think it's all ridiculous mumbo jumbo hoo-hah, then i feel sorry for you, and ask you to recognize, at least, that people are praying to themselves, to find answers, even if much of their praying is incoherent... who's thoughts are coherent all the time?????

Living from the heart, instead of just the head, is the way... the easiest, simplest and best way to fulfill your religious (re-ligiare latin origin (bound/ties)), vows: your heart cannot be fooled, and every thought that passes through your mind will be melted or strengthened by your hearts fire, if you let them talk to one another.

essentially it is all just: i feel good when i do good, and the opposite when i do the opposite, and i always find out sooner, what i actually did. I cannot explain to you what good actually is, and it is good that i cannot, as if i could give you an answer, that would be the end of this wonderful game we're playing together: it would be the end of struggling, like a cheat code in a video game.

you secretly want all this struggling and frustration and challenge... you yearn for it, so don't shy away
but use all of your faculties, instead of just the 1 - 2 which you have been trained to think are worthwhile. Nothing goes to waste in nature, why should the human body be any different?
90% junk dna and 90 to 70% brain activity = strong correlation
activate more dna = activate more mind power = become more alive.

RE: dogma, just avoid it, it's another divide and conquer tactic, get people to disagree about minute, almost meaningless details, so they betray their greater principles, whilst ignoring their similarities.
the dogma of atheism today seems to be: everything has to be logically verifyable and explainable or it is not worth anything. Avoid this. At the least, the very least, recognize that peoples faiths mean a lot to them, and that, if you truly are superior and truly have the answers (which i dont really think we can have), then, do not bully them into submission, and do not simply be cruel with telling them what they believe is nonsense, but be gentle.

think of cotton: if you try to rip it, it resists and is hard to pull, if you do it gently, it drifts apart.

I will restate again my belief that, life is a miracle, and consciousness is a miracle, and science cannot explain the nature of reality, and give us full answers to the questions we desperately seek answers to, anymore than you can understand a baloon from living inside it.

Just raise your right hand up, and consider the absolute miracle that you can move your fingers, wiggle your toes, look right and left and so on. It's amazing. Try to appreciate it. It'll lead to a fuller life.

Peace man.

oh and about creation and design: same principle as within your own life, if you say there is no divine creator, you are essentially saying, your consciousness arose by chance, and it is just an illusion, and although it may appear that people willfully design things, and make art, and write coherent sentences, it's all just nonsense really, determined by factors we cant understand. Our planet, our universe, is created, to an extent, by us, by our true higher selves, by the source of ourselves, which is the source of everything, the one thing, from which all things that exist now came, and to which all things will return again.

Don't worry about this theoretical war, it's just a quagmire, an endless battle, for those who feel the need to fight it out, and get at something... know when to quite talking, and start walking

Easiest way to think of gods: we are gods to ants, but what we call gods we must also be like ants to ;)
why would we call anything god? when we recognize neither our reason nor our emotions will let us discover any more.

Like with "science", it describes THAT things happen, and to an extent why and how they happen, but not, how you can make them happen, only how you can make other things make them happen... that is where fields like alchemy and magic come in, which are of course all nonsense and old superstitious forerunners to our great modern science... ;)

lol.

[Constabul Profile]

.

Interesting perspective, obviously not christian Sam, you heathen.

enjoyable read indeed.

So ill mark you down as not ordering a pair of magical moron Undies.

[Roadkill Profile]

Since when is belief itself sacred?

There is nothing wrong with mocking a belief if it is indeed ludicrous.

I mock Hitler. His beliefs were repugnant and lies.

I mock Christians, Jew, Muslim and the lot for the same reasons.

Silence is approval.

[Phaeton Profile]

Since when is belief itself sacred?

There is nothing wrong with mocking a belief if it is indeed ludicrous.

I mock Hitler. His beliefs were repugnant and lies.

I mock Christians, Jew, Muslim and the lot for the same reasons.

Silence is approval.

You 'mock' people for their beliefs do you...



Says a lot about your person.

[Haljalikeakik Profile]

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childish wish thinking for the unwashed masses.

[99socks Profile]

The naked prophet, indeed.

Yes, most people think of God as their personal butler. And they get angry when He doesn't give 'em what they want, or else they say He doesn't exist because they are too angry with Him to admit they used to rely on Him to do their bidding, like spoiled little children stomping around when they don't get what they want.

He does what He wants in His own way and according to his own time. I have learned (personal experience) that His timing and methods are sometimes so beyond what we could conceive, that to even entertain any ideas of specifically how we want our issues handled is a fool's game. My prayer, simply, is for Him to do what's best, to give me patience until I understand His wisdom in each thing, and for me to be satisfied with that.

You'd be surprised what happens when you learn to look for the good and the wisdom in everything instead of bitching it wasn't what or how you wanted. And unfortunately, 99% of "religious" people are pouting toddlers with huge Santa lists.

When I hear someone complain "Why me?" do you know what my reaction is? It takes all my might not to beat their self-centered asses to a pulp. It ain't about you, it never was. Maybe, just maybe, YOU were supposed to do something for someone ELSE. Or God knows, the ripple had to go through 10 people before it got to where it needed.

Like the undressing of the prophet, ("do I need to pray to my Father to show you...") it all works out.

[99socks Profile]

Btw Sam.. I love you.

[Constabul Profile]

ok, so had some more replies, some not really on topic, that's cool.
expected some of that.
obviously they will not be getting their magic under armor + 1 gear


Ty sock for your perspective, I will hold off on ordering you the Moron Magical undies for women, since you also got rid of your Islamic ninja mask, tho. You almost has the making for once badass suit between the two.

[Samuelthemule Profile Website]

Re: constabul & not a christian, i'm not a church goer, and i don't regularly meet with any groups, but i think there is a rock of truth within christianity, swimming under a sea of perversion, which is what really captures people in the first place, the only reason it's not just falling apart.

Btw Sam.. I love you.

i love you too!

Thank you, I felt that you meant it



And, good post, yes, it is really just about looking for good, in everything, just like you said.
Becoming what you look at, becoming what you think about, and the way you think about it.
Leaving room for your own failures and potential stupidity and trusting the divine a little.

Recognizing that, it is beyond you, and that, like your parents treated you when you were a small child, and did so many things for you, of which you are almost entirely unaware, something is shifting around in the winds, just-so, and just-like-it-needs-to-be, for you to become more aware.

Nature is painting a picture for us every moment of our little lives, to help us understand our own nature, but we grasp at straws and say "eureka, i've got it, i've understood, i'm better than you, i'm enlightened"...the thing is: all prophets were the picture of humility, and if you think you know more than someone else because they do not destroy your views and your self confidence and that the sign of strength is when someone can demolish someone else, then, you have a long way to go ^_^ Nature is trying so hard to serve, can't we just be a little bit grateful, and empty our minds for a moment, and LISTEN?

Gentle giants, majestic clouds, rolling hills; they're all playful, like lions and tigers, who roll around with one another, and scratch and love each other, and yet, to someone who's never seen them play before, might appear as though they're fighting, but if they were fighting you'd know all about it.

If god was fighting with you, as you claim, if god was angry with you as you claim, and claim to be the reason for your anger with him, you would not be speaking. We are children to them, and even when we bang our fists in all our rage and using all the might fury and fire we can conjure, we are still barely scratching their fingers... of course, in relation, we can wreck havoc here, and destroy one another's bodys, but they're just shells which the earth will find a way to re-use anyway.

the most delicate of delicate human hands, and hearts and heads, cannot grasp what the angels and gods do for us, only a fraction of it, and cannot sense the immense glory of what the stars, and the heavens indicate, to be going on, behind the scenes... behind our little windows of perception, but a tiny fraction, and even that, is almost too much

I guess, what I'd like to say is, if you have decided you've seen enough of corruption greed and hatred, and wish to do good, and wish to become strong and powerful, and do not wish to repeat this class of life's lesson and school, then develope discipline and resolve: do not be swayed by illusions any longer, find truth, and prize truth above all else, and live with that truth, in your heart, and head, constantly, not momentarily, don't just let it fade after you've turned the metaphorical page. inscribe it on the inside of your skull, for all to see, in your actions. Find a central truth which you can live with, and do so.

If you've decided, you do not want to reincarnate and be stuck here on earth, any longer, then live from your heart, and serve others, and in so doing, you'll free yourself, because your higher self is watching everything you do, and trying to persuade you to do what you know you came here to do. But you and your ego are pretending, all the time, you don't know, why?
why do you pretend you don't know everything you need to know?

Finally, when you're on your way, when you start acquiring real knowledge, you'll begin to see, the real risk of miss applying it, and instead of just being a child skimming rocks across a water's surface, to see the effects and affects, you'll be the cause of effects, you'll be the rock, and also the thing throwing the rock

Stop thinking you've understood god, and understood the source of all, and understood anything at all... Stop thinking god has to listen to you, and be your servant, and be obedient to you, and do the complete opposite: because you are not in everything, but everything is in you, and only when you begin to see this, will you slowly start to become everything, which is to say, more powerful.

Remember, if god were to appear before you, you would be wiped out, extinguished, instantly, if the source were to reveal itself in its entirety, to you, as you beg it to do sometimes, you could not continue your little life. because energy is matter, and knowledge is also energy. Listen to that little whisper, in your self, from your true self, and follow where it leads, learn to discern its voice, from imposters, and slowly, trust it... experiment, be playful, when you can, and serious and sincere, when the situation calls for it.

you'll be more dissapointed, in the long run, if you refuse to do anything, because you think you might be dissapointed, in the short term... than if you just tried, day-by-day, to realize more of your own unique and godly self, and continue your journey back to the source, with a furious and firey, but also subtle and caring force

MYSTERIUM TREMENDUM! Secret, Secretorum...

Remember, our truth here, is a delusion, in the next dimension,
the thing that seems most solid and simple and true and right and good, and irrefutable, is completely obvious and silly and almost wrong, in the next, remember this, when you place yourself above anyone, and look down on anything, except for your past self.
The only way to truly be looked up to, is when you look up the person who is looking up to you, whilst they are: this might not make sense, because you might think of gravity and locations and perception and so on, but that's all just illusion also: the way to achieve this, looking up to, and being looked up to, at the same time, is through innerstanding: to refuse to engage in the dynamic of understanding and overstanding: to refuse the victim/victimizer role-playing game.

And to stop competing with everyone else; but start competing with yourself, your past self.
THAT Is true competition.

What puny little life-forms we are, in our current state, when i think about it, compared to tornadoes, which are more often than not just winds playing together... and stars, and yet, we come from stars, and will return to them... believe it, for it is so



--

sock, woops, this is already a long post, but i thought i'd say:
i feel the same way as you do now, about religion, about sex and celibacy, people just whine and cry like children when they don't get their way, but the gods, as plato said, "the gods do us a favour when they deny us what we ask them for, because we don't know that so many of the things which we ask for are: nothing but harmful for us", pitty the gods cannot stop us from falsely-pleasuring ourselves, what a tragic irony of biology that when animals and humans are sexually aroused, blood is cut off from the head, and flows to the reproductive organs.

There is a reason celibacy is practiced by monks world wide, and the origins of celibacy sprung up independantly. Don't confuse celibacy with not having children though, and supressing yourself, it is the opposite, learning self discipline so you can honor your children as they grow, is the outcome, and don't confuse it with tradition, it has nothing to do with any tradition, although it might be in lots of them.

Your body is a temple!
NOT a temple for fucking around with.

Sex is Sacred and an absolute wonder, and not something to simply, idly toy around with, without any thought of tommorow, or the consequences.. the awesome responsibility which you have, when you possibly, create a new body for a soul to inhabit... is not to be dismissed. But acknowledged.
You don't have to be scared of sex either, but see that you limit tugging on your ticklish-giggle-bits all the time, it will be, by an unprecedented order of magnitudes, better for you, if you make it meaningful, and practice it, with someone whom you truly, deeply love, and learn some real techniques, instead of just, doing it because you're bored and infatuated and long for something to releive depression.

Instead of succumbing to every suggestion you come across, and just being wasteful with your energy (that's what makes it feel so good: spending, exchanging, renewing and relieving energies), as though you were still in the womb and had room service on tap when you want it, by tugging on the umbillical cord; tugging on a universal umbilical cord, for a fleeting pleasure, as though your life here was just some little inconsequential plaything.

It's not to be abused in this way, and if you keep doing this, and living a sleazy life, and NOT doing what you know you can, you will make yourself suffer great pain unnecessarily: it all has repercussions, and sometimes these are delayed, and sometimes your fall is soft, but it is a fall, nearly always, if you do not respect and honor it appropriately.
you can of course continue, in the way you may have unthinkingly done all your life until now. but i'm just letting you know: it will be more painful in the end.
you will be sincerely proud of yourself, when you learn to stand on your own two feet, and not give in to unworthy temptations, but develop some discipline .

This is the one thing I see plaguing, energetically zapping, the truth seeking movement, that they give in to all sorts of habits and false-pleasures which are beneath them, without even ritualising them at all, without even thinking about them: AT ALL. And perhaps even supporting the things they wish to oppose, directly or indirectly, through thoughts, which are all creative, and through self destruction and degradation.
Just consuming-consuming-consuming, and then wondering why they do not have the energy to speak truth, and continue seeking it, and why their life is not good and strong and purposeful, it because of these two things: no self-discipline: no willpower: no true self respect: no true fire: no true gold, YET.

did you know, men: that you lose zinc, spinal and cerebral fluid when you ejaculate?
did you know, it is possible to have an orgasm without having an erection?
as orgasms happen in the mind?
and did you know, the same endorphins and so on, which are released in the brain, during sex, can be released simply by the power of thought?
did you know: when you take excessive amounts of drugs (caffeine, alcohol, nicotine, and so on included), it creates a hole in your aura, which does not rebuild itself without effort?
Yep, now you know, and have a reason to stop masturbating (i mean, even virginia bloody woolf recognized masturbation was a chronic disease for a sizeable amount of men and women), and taking drugs, and watching, nearly anything, on tv (electro-smog hypnosis hell with autosuggestion and false dichotomies all thrown in for you to waste time disentalging, free).

Right, ramble mode off.

all that, in a sentence: Please, for your own sakes, and for the world's, become strong.

and a second one: all this rambling applies as much to myself, and my own past, as it may or may not to yours, i don't think i'm above my own advice, rofl.


Peace



I love you all.