Obama and the beast

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PostFri Dec 10, 2010 8:39 pm » by Caaron


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PostFri Dec 10, 2010 9:03 pm » by Thebluecanary


It was an interesting video. However, I'm pretty sure Siva is not the Hindu equivalent of Satan.
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PostFri Dec 10, 2010 9:39 pm » by Chronicnerd


thebluecanary wrote:It was an interesting video. However, I'm pretty sure Siva is not the Hindu equivalent of Satan.

You are sure or you know for a fact?
Not to be crass... but I guess I just get a little bent out of shape when people immediately discount something without posting information to back up their claim.

As an example:

In the Yajurveda, two contrary sets of attributes for both malignant or terrific (Sanskrit: rudra) and benign or auspicious (Sanskrit: śiva) forms can be found, leading Chakravarti to conclude that "all the basic elements which created the complex Rudra-Śiva sect of later ages are to be found here."[107] In the Mahabharata, Shiva is depicted as "the standard of invincibility, might, and terror", as well as a figure of honor, delight, and brilliance.[108] The duality of Shiva's fearful and auspicious attributes appears in contrasted names.

The name Rudra (Sanskrit: रुद्र) reflects his fearsome aspects. According to traditional etymologies, the Sanskrit name Rudra is derived from the root rud-, which means "to cry, howl".[109] Stella Kramrisch notes a different etymology connected with the adjectival form raudra, which means "wild, of rudra nature", and translates the name Rudra as "the wild one" or "the fierce god".[110] R. K. Sharma follows this alternate etymology and translates the name as "terrible".[111] Hara (Sanskrit: हर) is an important name that occurs three times in the Anushasanaparvan version of the Shiva sahasranama, where it is translated in different ways each time it occurs, following a commentorial tradition of not repeating an interpretation. Sharma translates the three as "one who captivates", "one who consolidates", and "one who destroys."[112] Kramrisch translates it as "the ravisher".[88] Another of Shiva's fearsome forms is as Kāla (Sanskrit: काल), "time", and as Mahākāla (Sanskrit: महाकाल), "great time", which ultimately destroys all things.[113][114][115] Bhairava (Sanskrit: भैरव), "terrible" or "frightful",[116] is a fierce form associated with annihilation.[117]


This is found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiva#Forms_and_depictions

Now, I am pretty sure that Satan could be described as a "destroyer" or "fierce God" or "the ravisher"...

So...I ain't sayin'... I am just sayin'... the imagery used on the magazine cover is a depiction of Shiva doing the famous "war dance"...

Satan? Could be... we have many different "theological" based figures that all have similar attributes, and as we have more and more information "at our finger tips" we can more easily start to see the patterns in sociologically influenced religions/beliefs.

Why depict the President of the United States in this form?

Shiva the Destoryer or Fierce God...in the "War Dance" stance....

I am going to have to, for the most part, agree with the "disturbing imagery" factor here and say that there is something odd about the way they are making Obama "appear" to the masses...

Besides...many Christians (not all but the majority) are very happy keeping their "world" in the "Christian" world...and don't care to look at "other Gods" or learn that much about "other Gods"...because that is considered a "no no" in the Christian religion.

I claim to have a "Christian" belief... and am Baptized...and believe in "God"...but I also believe that a good deal of the "details" found in the Bible (as well as other religious texts) are not 100% accurate and have been modified over the years by "man".

So...seeing that America is predominantly Christian (by 76% to 83.2%)...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States#Main_religious_preferences_of_Americans
If you made Obama to look like "Satan" it would freak Americans out... however depict him as a "Waring God" from another religion that the majority of Americans have no clue about...? They will think it is someone trying to be "eclectic"... when in fact...if you do research on what the symbolism behind his "appearance" is...you will find that Shiva is known to be violent, unforgiving, and a "war-minded" God that could very much have "similar qualities" to that of the Christian known "Satan".

Sorry if you feel like I am busting your chops...I am just getting a bit anxious at the way people are so quick to dismiss something without actually researching and "contemplating" concepts...primarily making claims without presenting any form of evidence to back their claim...

If you find more information that is contrary to what I have posted...please do post it...I love to learn knew things/facts!

:ugeek:

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PostFri Dec 10, 2010 10:24 pm » by Thebluecanary


This is the opening paragraph of that wikipedia entry that you cut and pasted:

Shiva (pronounced /ˈʃiːvə/; Sanskrit: शिव Śiva, meaning "auspicious one";) is a major Hindu deity, and the Destroyer or transformer of the Trimurti, the Hindu Trinity of the primary aspects of the divine.[2] In the Shaiva tradition of Hinduism, Shiva is seen as the Supreme God. In the Smarta tradition, he is regarded as one of the five primary forms of God.[3

The aspect of Shiva depicted by Obama on the Newsweek cover is called Nataraja, Lord of the Dance, and represents the destruction of ignorance, personified by the demon Apasmara Purusha. If it were an actual statue of Shiva instead of a picture of Obama, the demon would be lying under his feet, being "danced" to death. Hinduism is a complex religion with a multitude of gods, most of whom have both benevolent and wrathful aspects. Most "Destroyer" aspects of deity in Eastern religions, including Hinduism, refer to the destruction of unhealthy and damaging aspects of the self and the world, usually personified in the form of demons. Even in their wrathful aspects they are typically beloved rather than feared; a great example of this being the goddess Kali, who is usually depicted as an emaciated black-skinned female with a protruding tongue, who wears a necklace and crown of human skulls. Some depictions of Kali are so gory that if one looks at them with eyes colored by the Judeo-Christian idea of "good" and "bad" you would assume that she would be an "evil" creature; in fact, she is also seen as a benevolent mother figure who one calls out to in times of deepest need. Though the goddess Kali was worshiped by the Thuggee cult of assassins in her most wrathful aspect, the average Hindu does not equate her with evil, only with the necessary destruction of Earthly illusion.

So, no, Shiva is not the Hindu equivalent of Satan, which is the exact claim made in the video. He is a multi-faceted god worshiped in many different ways, including as the destroyer of ignorance and as a fierce warrior, but he is not a stand-in for the Judeo Christian Satan. And even as Destroyer, it is not he who will destroy the world; in Hindu belief, that would be Kali.

I did not dismiss the entire video, just that particular statement, which in my opinion was a gross overstatement that probably indicated that the creator of the video knows next to nothing about the mythology of Hinduism, not necessarily that he was wrong about everything.
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PostFri Dec 10, 2010 10:34 pm » by Epicfailure


why does everyone knock wikipedia?

do you not know that you can go to the bottom of the page and see where the line you are taking was sourced from?

whoever said it isn't a sourced place of information really started a trend with people didn't they?
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PostFri Dec 10, 2010 10:37 pm » by Thebluecanary


epicfailure wrote:why does everyone knock wikipedia?

do you not know that you can go to the bottom of the page and see where the line you are taking was sourced from?

whoever said it isn't a sourced place of information really started a trend with people didn't they?


You're right. I won't use wikipedia as the sole source of any information, but they do require extensive sourcing which has led me to many other useful books and articles. And they seem pretty damn picky about accuracy, not to mention anyone who reads an article and disputes something claimed in it can easily sign up and correct the error if they have a source backing them up, or report it for review.
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PostFri Dec 10, 2010 10:43 pm » by Captainkarizma


why does everyone knock wikipedia?


because they think they are smarter
:robot: this is the captain speaking :badair:

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PostFri Dec 10, 2010 11:01 pm » by The57ironman


captainkarizma wrote:why does everyone knock wikipedia?


because they think they are smarter


oowww!

you're makin' bruises man.... :flop:
..i have mixed drinks about my feelings...

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PostSun Dec 12, 2010 4:32 pm » by Dragonfly1


thebluecanary wrote:It was an interesting video. However, I'm pretty sure Siva is not the Hindu equivalent of Satan.

How do you know for sure?
Do you have sources to back up your claim? or are you just saying this out of "sympathy" for the "religion"?

I would like to see a source if you have one. I have a few friends that are Indian and would like to discuss with them.


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