Osama bin Laden is dead. Posted 01/03/09

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PostSat Jan 03, 2009 5:17 pm » by Pindz


NEW YORK TIMES
The Death of bin Ladenism

Published: July 11, 2002
Osama bin Laden is dead. The news first came from sources in Afghanistan and Pakistan almost six months ago: the fugitive died in December and was buried in the mountains of southeast Afghanistan. Pakistan's president, Pervez Musharraf, echoed the information. The remnants of Osama's gang, however, have mostly stayed silent, either to keep Osama's ghost alive or because they have no means of communication.

With an ego the size of Mount Everest, Osama bin Laden would not have, could not have, remained silent for so long if he were still alive. He always liked to take credit even for things he had nothing to do with. Would he remain silent for nine months and not trumpet his own survival?

Even if he is still in the world, bin Ladenism has left for good. Mr. bin Laden was the public face of a brand of politics that committed suicide in New York and Washington on Sept. 11, 2001, killing thousands of innocent people in the process.

What were the key elements of that politics?

The first was a cynical misinterpretation of Islam that began decades ago with such anti-Western ideologues as Maulana Maudoodi of Pakistan and Sayyid Qutb of Egypt. Although Mr. Maudoodi and Mr. Qutb were not serious thinkers, they could at least offer a coherent ideology based on a narrow reading of Islamic texts. Their ideas about Western barbarism and Muslim revival, distilled down to bin Ladenism, became mere slogans designed to incite zealots to murder.

People like Mr. Maudoodi and Mr. Qutb could catch the ball and run largely because most Muslim intellectuals of their generation (and later) had no interest in continuing the work of Muslim philosophers. Our intellectuals were too busy learning Western ideologies of one kind or another -- and they left the newly urbanized Muslim masses to the half-baked ideas of men like Mr. Maudoodi and Mr. Qutb and eventually Mr. bin Laden.

Now, however, many Muslim intellectuals are returning home, so to speak. They are rediscovering the philosophical heritage of Islam and the challenges of Muslim political thought. And Maudoodi-Qutbism is now being seen as a pseudo-Islamic version of Western fascism.

The second element that made Mr. bin Laden possible was easy money, largely from wealthy individuals in the Persian Gulf area who believed that they were buying a place in the hereafter while protecting themselves against political opposition in this world. Some paid because they believed they were helping poor and oppressed Muslims. Others paid so militants would go and spend their energies far away from home.

That easy money is no longer available, at least not in large quantities. Many donors have realized they were financing terrorists. Some have been forced to choose between the West, where they have the bulk of their wealth, and the troglodyte mujahedeen of the Hindu Kush.

The third element that made bin Ladenist terror possible was the encouraging, or at least complacent, attitude of several governments. The Taliban in Afghanistan began by hosting Mr. bin Laden and ended up becoming his life-and-death buddies. The Pakistanis were also supportive because they wanted to dominate Afghanistan and make life hard for the Indians by sending holy warriors to Kashmir. The Sudanese government was sympathetic, if not actually supportive, and offered at least a safe haven. This was also the case in Yemen, where in November 2000 I accidentally ran into a crowd of Qaeda militants who had flown in from Pakistan for a gathering.

We now know that Qaeda cells operated, often quite openly, in Muslim countries from Indonesia and Malaysia to Morocco and Tunisia, without being bothered by anyone. The fall of the Taliban means the gang no longer has a secure base. All the other countries are also closed, and in some cases even hostile.

The fourth element was the mistaken practice of many Western powers that sheltered the terrorists in the name of freedom of expression and dissent. We now know that London was a critical haven for Al Qaeda. The murder of the Afghan resistance leader Ahmed Shah Massoud was planned in London. Qaeda militants operated in Germany, Holland, Belgium, France, Spain and Italy without significant restraint.

The fifth element that made bin Ladenism possible was the West's, especially America's, perceived weakness if not actual cowardice. A joke going around militant Islamist circles until last year was that the only thing the Americans would do if attacked was to sue. That perception no longer exists. The Americans, supported by one of the largest coalitions in history, have shown they will use force against their enemies even if that means a long and difficult war.

The sixth element of bin Ladenism was the illusion in most Western nations that they could somehow remain unaffected by the violence unleashed by fanatical terrorists against so many Muslim nations from Indonesia to Algeria.

Mr. bin Laden could survive and prosper only in a world in which these elements existed. That world is gone. Mr. bin Laden's ghost may linger on -- perhaps because Washington and Islamabad will find it useful. President Bush's party has a crucial election to win and Pervez Musharraf is keen to keep Pakistan in the limelight as long as possible.

But the truth is that Osama bin Laden is dead.



SOURCE : http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... A9649C8B63
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PostSat Jan 03, 2009 5:40 pm » by Murvic


I believe Bhutto ........i beleive he is dead

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PostSat Jan 03, 2009 5:46 pm » by Mp630


Bin Ladden didn't do 9/11

Case and point of this, the FBI never charged him with this crime because of "lack of evidence."

Bin Ladden's Family has close ties to Bush and builds ALL the American bases in the mid-east! TO THIS DAY!

I believe he is dead though, as the post above stated, Bhutto stated he was dead before she died.

Dont smack talk me if you dont agree with this information, do some research for your self and stop trusting everything the boob tube spits in your face. IF YOU DONT THINK TV OR NEW LIES< GO GOOGLE VRN & FAKE NEWS!

TV is a lie.

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PostSat Jan 03, 2009 6:03 pm » by Pindz


what proof ?


Please be nice Pindz.....thanks Becks..
Last edited by Becks on Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Vulgar language aimed at another member
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PostSat Jan 03, 2009 6:23 pm » by Alexrubic


mp630 wrote:Bin Ladden didn't do 9/11

Case and point of this, the FBI never charged him with this crime because of "lack of evidence."

Bin Ladden's Family has close ties to Bush and builds ALL the American bases in the mid-east! TO THIS DAY!

I believe he is dead though, as the post above stated, Bhutto stated he was dead before she died.

Dont smack talk me if you dont agree with this information, do some research for your self and stop trusting everything the boob tube spits in your face. IF YOU DONT THINK TV OR NEW LIES< GO GOOGLE VRN & FAKE NEWS!

TV is a lie.


Pretty much agree with all of that. Certainly the hypocrisy of Bush blaming his best mate Bin Laden with orchestrating 9/11 was breath-taking! Either they had a big falling out or Osama Bin Laden knew he was dying and just allowed himself to be the 'patsy' in the world media drama called 'The War on Terror' - maybe for some financial consideration for his extended family?
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PostSat Jan 03, 2009 6:53 pm » by Spock


pindz wrote:what proof you.............(edited my Moderator)



I am really enjoying "PISS-ANTS"



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Guys I know your passionate but please refrain from vulgar language and personal insults. please see forum rules for editing reasons.
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PostSat Jan 03, 2009 6:53 pm » by Chiphed2


Slushpup's warning is a good one. I believe he is dead, also, as made known by Bhutto (which cost her her life...). However, the masses of sheeple are still easily duped by those interested in promulgating the message of terror. Osama lives because he is still a potent tool for those interested in keeping the masses terrorized for their own gain.

:twisted: :top: :top: :evil:

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PostSat Jan 03, 2009 7:08 pm » by Spock


slushpup wrote:So what are you saying, lets all relax and let our guard down because some people say he is dead. Well I hope we are not that stupid. That would be effective propaganda. I say give us proof first. Until then I don't believe anything that is hear say. Proof... We need proof.


BRAVO!!! :clapper:

I personally think Bin Laden died in Torra Borra. But it was not only Bin Laden we were fighting against - it is his ideology. Hell, the United States funded Bin Laden's crew during the Russian invasion of Afghanistan. So we are having to dodge our own damn missiles!

The Taliban must be crushed, which is what we are fighting now in Afghanistan. If Pakistan will not get a hold of that type of ideological crap, we are going to see nukes fly between them and India. OMG - that s not good.

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PostSat Jan 03, 2009 7:10 pm » by Drjones


chiphed2 wrote:Slushpup's warning is a good one. I believe he is dead, also, as made known by Bhutto (which cost her her life...). However, the masses of sheeple are still easily duped by those interested in promulgating the message of terror. Osama lives because he is still a potent tool for those interested in keeping the masses terrorized for their own gain.

:twisted: :top: :top: :evil:



Excellent post m8,agree 110%...I emailed the BBC about their editing out of the Bin Laden comment on the Frost show and i am sure i posted their reply on the site somewhere.. :o
Anyways thats what i believe that HE IS DEAD...i mean even if he is NOT DEAD..Okaay...then how hard can a 6"6 inch individual be to find in the desert..lol...with all the sophisticated technology at the US and Britains disposal....basically the whole world should be after this guy right....so we have every nation on Earth looking for this guy and we cant find him?...Yeah right....It's also funny how on the FBI website Bin Laden lists of crimes is there and no mention of 911 cos apparently there is not enough evidence to link him to it...911 was an inside job anyone...it would be very interesting if he were somehow caught...would he be charged then with 911 :?: :o
Well that reminds me how Donald Rumsfeld was on CNN or whatever,or some other propaganda machine and went over some mountainside hideout complexes...i mean c'mon...this is all completely fiction is it not??...Well i also agree with slushpup that EVIDENCE would be good rather than just speculation....the only evidence we have at present is from Bhutto and some simple deductions about the man,for instance his health was reported to be deteirorating badly so even if he were NOT assasinated then i doubt he would have lived a further 7 years...Well in order to keep the false "war on terror" running smoothly the NWO crew need a boogeyman to keep this idea alive and well in the minds of the dumbed down zombie sheeple-there are so many :scary: ...Damn it is so frustrating that an ordinary bloke like me certainly doesnt have all the answers but with regards to 911 when you start to dig...holy crap...the whole thing stinks to high heaven :evil: I mean the ties to the Bin Laden family that the Bushs have... :shock:
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PostSat Jan 03, 2009 7:32 pm » by Hesop


I Think he could've been dead for quite some time. If he was, we'ld never know here in the States. It was important to the Bush-Cheney Whitehouse to keep this figure alive for their own propaganda initiative machine. They made him the icon of fear, for them to do as they wished in the name of terror. :flop:

Good posts guys.
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