Palestinians freedom fighters not terrorists?

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PostWed Dec 09, 2009 6:50 pm » by Savwafair2012

The following is a copy of an exchange between myself and a Palestinian male named Abdallah who is currently living in the Gaza Strip. This is a personal account filled with very raw and emotional accounts, and due to these facts the interview was conducted over a 4 day period.

I began the conversation by asking typical questions concerning logistics; Abdallah is from a small village in Gaza known as Dair Al Balah which has a population of around 62,000 men ,women and children.

I must say,before you continue on to the interview, that this was a very stirring dialogue and there were moments where breaks were taken in order for Abdallah to compose himself so we could continue the interview. This was not just a war, but a massacre and it is still fresh on the minds of not only Gazan’s but all Palestinians.

Q: Where were you when the first set of attacks on the Gaza Strip happened?
A: I was on my way back from teaching at school.

Abdallah is technology teacher at a school in the Gaza Strip.

Q: What happened which led you to believe that there was a war?
A: Helicopters were in the sky and they were bombing everywhere, that’s how we first knew it was war. People started to run in the streets. Kids shouting. Women crying. Many fell down in the streets and cars exploded. It was like a nightmare.

Q: You said you were coming from school,tell me about what occurred thereon:
A:While I was walking back from school it looks like they had been bombing everywhere so I took another way home. And while I was walking I saw Apache helicopters in the sky and I saw the rockets shining out of them.
All the way home they were bombing most of the villages in the Gaza Strip; they wanted to hit us like a stroke, all the places at the same time. There were two to four helicopters for every village in Gaza and sometimes more.

Q: What transpired once you arrived home?
A: When I got home I found all my sisters crying so hard. Our windows were broken and the telephone service was down; the houses were shaking from the continuous bombing and then we started to see smoke everywhere. Then we heard that many guys from our neighborhood were dead. I asked my Mom to sit down and hold my sisters and then I went to the local hospital to see who was killed.

The sky on the outside of the hospital looked almost black, it was like a earthquake hit the place.

At the hospital I saw that many were injured and killed, the beds in the hospital were not enough and many were on the floor. Some of the injured and killed were in pieces, no-one recognized them and until now some are missing because they couldn’t find their bodies.

Q: Can you give me an overview of what Israel did once the war began?
A: They began to hack into our phone networks and spy on our conversations, and they attacked our radio waves saying that they will hit every house that had a fighter in it.
Then they cut off our cooking gas. We didn’t have cooking gas so we can cook with; the gas was cut after two weeks and so we had to start fires with cardboard and wood.We had to cook on primitive tools which cause much smoke and was not healthy.

They Israeli’s have planes without pilot , like spying planes (drones) , which kept flying in the sky , and the planes had rockets which hit all the time and the sound of it was so strong and so scary we kept hearing explosions the whole day.

My little sisters were so scared that they didn’t even want to go to the bathroom by themselves. We couldn’t go to school or the market and smoke was always everywhere. Hospitals were filled with dead and injured.

Israel literally wiped out entire houses and families and made sure to hit over crowded areas.

Q: What was happening to your parents (etc) and how were they reacting to the situation?
A: My mom was crying everyday and my dad was so worried. We spent many nights in total darkness because there was no electricity, and we couldn’t find anything to give light. Imagine it being night-time and being in the dark, hearing the sounds of F16’s and bombs – it’s really scary.

When there was anyone who was sick we couldn’t go to the hospital anymore or the pharmacy and everyday we would wake up to either the sounds of planes or bombing.

Q: Did you go outside during the bombing at all? If so,what did you see?
A: Yes,I had to sometimes so I can bring food for my family or to check on people from my family who lived away from us.

There were people who were sleeping in the streets because they didn’t have a home anymore from the bombing.

I remember once seeing more than 5 helicopters in the sky,smoke everywhere – crying mothers calling out for their kids, wives without husbands, kids without parents. It was really horrible.

Q: How did you get your food during the bombardment?
A: We could hardly reach the markets so we had to depend on whatever we had left in the house,mostly simple food like beans and bread.

We tried to share food with other families,as much as possible. But food wasn’t available in amounts that allowed us to do it frequently.

Q: What did you all do in terms of water?
A: We only got to use water for important matters and didn’t shower as we would for normal days. There was not as much water because the pipes were being broken during the bombing.

Q: How did your community act? Was there a sense of unity?
A: Yes of course. We shared what we had,cooked together sometimes using the same resources.

When a house was hit some of us went to schools with them and sometimes more than 20 people had to sleep in one classroom. In all of this there was a big problem and it was movement within the strip. Everyone else slept together in the streets.

Israel cut Gaza into three parts: The North,The Middle and The South.

No one could move from the North to the South etc

Q: How did you know that the war was over? What did you do once it was over?
A: We tried to follow the news and the radio,then we heard the bombs stopped.

After it was over we were shocked, it was the hardest time we ever had. Imagine sleeping and waking up to death and bombs everyday. The Israeli’s used many strong weapons and to be honest it was a war from one side.

We went to visit each others houses afterwards only to see destroyed houses, then we went to check on the rest of the destroyed villages.

Q: What did this war teach you?
A: It taught me that this world is so damn blind and so unfair. That,the life of a Palestinian is not equal to an Israeli in the West and that there is a lack of human rights in this world. That Israel has blind support from the West, especially the USA and UK. And that Israel will never respect us , or recognize our rights.
The democracy that America supports in Middle East , is bullshit.

They are criminals, they are the real terrorists,they scared every human in Gaza even kids.

Israel will never recognize our rights and the last war was the biggest proof. Before,they didn’t like Yasser Arafat so they kidnapped him and poisoned him, and now they are against Hamas.

I believe Israel is against every Palestinian who calls for his rights,who wants to fight back and never give up.

They made our life like hell but it gave us strength.

Because Israel, after using all this power, can never make us give up.

Q: What would you like people to know about the war (i.e. Operation Cast Lead)?

A: I want them to know that it was so unfair; Israel used very huge weapons and bombs while we didn’t ever threaten their lives. The Palestinian rockets were not big ,they haven’t killed more than 20 Israeli’s in the last 9 years , while one Israeli rocket (weighing tons) ends up killing hundreds all at once.

We didn’t choose to start the war but the Israeli’s continue their siege on Gaza and their unfair attacks. Israel has made every single soul in Gaza suffer , its a lie that they attack only the armed persons.

They destroyed many families , for example , they killed more than 30 persons of the Sammoni family. They killed parents and kids , and left no one.

This was a war from one side – the Palestinians don’t have free borders or an army,they are freedom fighters.

We don’t choose to fight , but we have to. All the resistance parties are working hard to get back our rights and our freedom

We are freedom fighters not terrorists.
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PostWed Dec 09, 2009 8:40 pm » by Proto

By Professor Louis Rene Beres

Supporters of Palestinian violence against Israeli citizens - even the most dreadful and barbaric shootings and bombings - frequently claim that struggle against "the occupation" warrants "any means necessary." From the standpoint of authoritative international law, this claim is entirely incorrect. Even where the use of insurgent force may be justified - and in the case of the Palestinians such justification is surely debatable - deliberate attacks upon noncombatants are always illegal. Indeed, there is no more ancient and sacred principle of law than the immutable imperative to protect the innocent.

"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." There is no basis in law for this facile and shallow expression. The issue here is not one of subjective interpretation. On the contrary, there exist precise and settled criteria that are readily available to distinguish one from the other. Any insurgent who intentionally causes the explosion and burning of women and children at lunch or at prayer or at a wedding ceremony or in a shopping mall is a terrorist. Period.

It is true that certain insurgencies can be judged lawful under international law. Yet, even these insurgencies MUST always conform to the laws of war. The ends can never justify the means in international law. Never. Where the insurgent group resorts to unjust means, its actions are unambiguously terroristic.

How shall we determine precisely when insurgent means are just or unjust? The determinable standards that must be applied in judgment are known in law as JUST CAUSE and JUST MEANS. These standards, and these standards alone, allow us to differentiate lawful insurgency from terrorism.

National liberation movements that fail to meet the test of JUST MEANS are not protected as lawful or legitimate. Leaving aside the very doubtful argument that Palestinian organizations meet the standards of "national liberation," especially after the Barak Government offered the PA/PLO control of over 97% of West Bank (Judea/Samaria) and Gaza,it is assuredly clear that they do not meet the standards of discrimination, proportionality and military necessity. These standards, applicable under the Laws of War, have been applied to insurgent organizations by the common Article 3 of the four Geneva Conventions of 1949 and by the two protocols to these Conventions of 1977. They are binding upon all combatants by virtue of both customary and conventional international law.

The ends CAN NEVER justify the means. As in the case of war between states, every use of force by insurgents must be judged twice, once with regard to the justness of the objective (in this case, a Palestinian state built upon the charred ruins of a dismembered Israel) and once with regard to the justness of the means used in pursuit of that objective. A group of Palestinian organizations that deliberately targets indiscriminately with intent to maximize pain and suffering can never claim to be "freedom fighters."

American and European supporters of a Palestinian State presume that it will be part of a "two-state solution," that is, that the new Arab state will exist side-by-side with the existing Jewish State. Yet, this presumption is dismissed everywhere in the Arab/Islamic world. Indeed, the "Map of Palestine" at the official website of the Palestinian National Authority includes all of Israel. There are not two states on this map; only one. Palestinian insurgents who resort to terrorism against Israel will never acknowledge that a Jewish State has any right to endure. Why should this should be so difficult to understand when even the most "moderate" Palestinians themselves have been so cartographically honest on their own website?

Terrorist crimes, as part of a broader category called CRIMEN CONTRA OMNES (crimes against all), mandate universal cooperation in apprehension and punishment. In this connection, as punishers of "grave breaches" under international law, all states are expected to search out and prosecute, or extradite, individual terrorist perpetrators. In no circumstances are any states permitted to characterize terrorists as "freedom fighters." This is especially the case for the United States, which incorporates all international law as the "supreme law of the land" at Article 6 of the Constitution, and which was formed by the Founding Fathers according to the timeless principles of Natural Law.

Palestinian terrorists are not "freedom fighters." They are "Common Enemies of Mankind" who exceed all moral and legal authority in their persistently barbarous attacks upon Israeli citizens. They must be treated accordingly.

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PostWed Dec 09, 2009 9:49 pm » by Aquarius

Firstly, Law is a completely different entity than Justice, so don't try and justify your arguement by referencing acts of law as people around here are smart enough to see through that bullshit.

Secondly, a terrorist/terrorism is (20th-21st century that is) "to seriously damage a country or an international organisation where committed with the aim of: seriously intimidating a population; or unduly compelling a Government or international organisation to perform or abstain from performing any act; or seriously destabilising or destroying the fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures of a country or an international organisation." Now I don't think the proud nation of Israel is seriously intimidated or destabilised by the Palestinians, do you, whereas............

Thirdly, it was found at the war crimes tribunal that Israel as well as Palestine were guilty of war attrocities, to which Israel would not accept the charges handed down to them, and threw a bit of a hissy fit actually.

The label terrorist has been all over my TV screen since the end of the cold war, yet after these "terrorists" were incarcarated and a peace agreement was signed, they became prisoners of war and were released as the cease fire continued. The power and the elite may label their enemy as they see fit whenever, where ever...

"The history of an oppressed people is hidden in the lies and the agreed myth of its conquerors." - Meridel De Sueur

Remember this, a desire to resist oppression is implanted in the nature of man. Oppressed people cannot/willnot remain oppressed forever.

And to all who have an interest, I'll quote Martin Luther King Jnr. "The ultimate tragedy is not the oppression and cruelty by the bad people but the silence over that by the good people." Oppression can only survive through silence.
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PostWed Dec 09, 2009 10:58 pm » by Proto

yeah i want to see how would you react to someone blowing himself up in
your street ,intentionally targeting innocent woman and children that just sat in a a cafe shop.

excuse me but untill you exprience this you have no right to preach to israel whats
right or wrong .

Resistance is one thing , intentionally targeting innocent is completely different thing .

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PostThu Dec 10, 2009 12:57 am » by Flecktarn

and just think when the shit hits the fan all these waring people will have to get on for the sake of our planet ,we are all people of this world and war has solved nouthing ever ,just caused more hate and mistrust .once we get past our petty arguments and forget religion we may just see were all the same, all just trying to get by the best we can

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PostThu Dec 10, 2009 1:14 am » by NamelessGhoul

A suicide bomber with all the causalties and destruction can be easily compared with a fully armed F-16.

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PostThu Dec 10, 2009 1:26 am » by Aquarius

@ Proto

Resistance is one thing , intentionally targeting innocent is completely different thing

My father, mother, and aunts all marched in the 1972 Civil Rights Association March in Derry City January 1972, where twenty-seven civil rights protesters were shot by the British Army Parachute Regiment. Thirteen people were shot and killed, 7 of whom were teenagers, with another man later dying of his wounds. The official army position, backed by the British Home Secretary the next day in the House of Commons, was that the paratroopers had reacted to the gun and nail bomb attacks from suspected IRA members. However, all eyewitnesses (apart from the soldiers), including marchers, local residents, and British and Irish journalists present, maintain that soldiers fired into an unarmed crowd, or were aiming at fleeing people and those tending the wounded, whereas the soldiers themselves were not fired upon. No British soldier was wounded by gunfire or reported any injuries, nor were any bullets or nail bombs recovered to back up their claims. One paratrooper who gave evidence at the Tribunal testified that they were told by an officer to expect a gunfight and "We want some kills". Retired British Army Major Hubert O'Neill, issued a statement on 21 August 1973, at the completion of the inquest into the people killed. He declared:

This Sunday became known as Bloody Sunday and bloody it was. It was quite unnecessary. It strikes me that the Army ran amok that day and shot without thinking what they were doing. They were shooting innocent people. These people may have been taking part in a march that was banned but that does not justify the troops coming in and firing live rounds indiscriminately. I would say without hesitation that it was sheer, unadulterated murder. It was murder.

The Provisional Irish Republican Army's (IRA) campaign against the occupation of Ireland had begun shortly before Bloody Sunday, but perceptions of the day boosted the status of and recruitment into the organisation enormously. "Terrorists", that had no blood on their hands, flooded to join their ranks. Bloody Sunday remains among the most significant events in the Troubles of Northern Ireland, chiefly due to the fact that it was carried out by the army and not paramilitaries, and in full public and press view.

I used to get pinned to a wall, spread eagled from the age of 10 years old upwards by soldiers armed with automatic weapons searching my school bags for bomb making equipment. I'd lay awake at night listenng to car bombs, pipe bombs going off. You grew up with an unmistakeable smell of semtex in the air. The reasons for the civil march was because we catholics lived in a world where ordinary decent civil liberties were stripped from us. Then this happened.

So tell me this, who is the terrorist in this series of events. Thought I might give you a different perspective from which to look at things for a change. Oh and it didn't stop here, obviously. Things got a lot worse, people became indiscriminant in who they targeted, as that is what they saw themselves up against. Do you know the fatality count difference between Palestinians and Israeli Gaza war? Up to 1,400 Palestinians were killed, against Israels 13. Are you going to try and tell me that there were no innocent Palestinians, no children, killed by Israeli offensives? Things will get a lot worse before they get better. Our struggle went on for 7 centuries.
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PostThu Dec 10, 2009 2:45 am » by doommongerer

@ Proto nothing personal but your warmongering post piss me off. If the canadian governement dicided to take the land of french speaking quebecer's and force all 6 millions of us to live on the island of montreal,some of us may want to blow up some is a logical reaction,but it never gona happen,in canada we are not that stupid.

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PostThu Dec 10, 2009 3:24 am » by Proto

marduk2012 wrote:A suicide bomber with all the causalties and destruction can be easily compared with a fully armed F-16.

the difference is that the f-16 pilot doesn't intentionally target civilians .

you can defend those terrorists all you want , but someone that deliberately
target woman, children and civilians is a terrorist ,if that's your idea of justice
then you are one sick fuck .

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PostThu Dec 10, 2009 5:03 am » by doommongerer

proto wrote:
marduk2012 wrote:A suicide bomber with all the causalties and destruction can be easily compared with a fully armed F-16.

the difference is that the f-16 pilot doesn't intentionally target civilians .

you can defend those terrorists all you want , but someone that deliberately
target woman, children and civilians is a terrorist ,if that's your idea of justice
then you are one sick fuck .

Sending a f-16 or a tank in heavely populated area is genocide.If you want to see a sick fuck look in the mirror or look at your avatar it's a cruel praying mantis.there's never gona to be peace in your country whit poeple thinking like you.


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