Pope begins Bible-reading on TV THIS WEEK

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PostSat Oct 25, 2008 12:03 am » by Qiqiba


drjones wrote:WAKE UP...go and watch the first Zeitgeist movie,bit about religion and get back to me :mrgreen:


You want to be treated as the real truthseeker, but think that Zeitgeist has anything to say about any religion, specially on Christianity? :o

Gimme a break, drjones. :top:

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PostSat Oct 25, 2008 11:43 am » by Drjones


qiqiba wrote:
drjones wrote:WAKE UP...go and watch the first Zeitgeist movie,bit about religion and get back to me :mrgreen:


You want to be treated as the real truthseeker, but think that Zeitgeist has anything to say about any religion, specially on Christianity? :o

Gimme a break, drjones. :top:


Give you a break..Nah i dont think i will m8 :o ....i was merely referencing the Zeitgeist movie and the apparent consistencies within what we call today "religion",how this looks to be an unchanged philosophical method of control going back thousands of years.Thers is not enough space on disclose for me to go into it in great detail but why the same story surfacing for all these supposedly "different" religions time and time again,there really can only be one logical conclusion for me and that is purely CONTROL,which thus in turn tells me "religion" what we think of today is all BS.You can either believe it or not really,not saying it is a BAD thing entirely,i know some very nice church going christian folk but i think at the end of the day you DO have to ask-WHAT IS REAL,IS THIS REAL..and WHY? that's all!
Did a guy really come to earth from a virgin and create wine from water and heal the sick and then get resurected when he died...logically that sounds a bit wrong would'nt you agree.
I DO unquestionably believe in a GOD,but to me it is more of a universal force than some guy in the sky with a white beard and commandments.I think people at the end of the day believe in their chosen religion cos it gives them satisfaction that they are "doing the right thing" by following a set of rules form the "creator".....i believe that the creator whoever or whatever that maybe would not do rules for humankind,everyone on the face of the planet knows good from bad,knows what is the right thing to do,it's not easy it todays corrupt system but we gotta try with all we got to do this....when telling the truth and speaking your mind freely is NOT a crime then will we know we are truly FREE.If someone wants to go and smoke pot-go let em :flop: -nothin to do with me m8-if someone wants to rob a bank-no problem :flop: -when we start making fusses about stuff,that's when we dont get to the REAL ROOT of the problem and answer the question...WHY is that person smoking pot,why is that person robbing a bank..Hmm.. :?: It's the biggest question we can ask...WHY and for me anyway there is not enough of that in todays age,it's what can bring us all together,EVERYONE asks WHY everyday but we dont get a REAL chance answer-we are deemed CRAZY-and i aint got time for that m8-ok what you got time for-beer and football : .I beleive each human has a piece of the answer to WHY and thats what can unite us,our own uniqueness,a gigantic jigsaw puzzle that can only be completed with the uniting of every man woman and child on the planet :flop:

Well i went on more than i wanted to,hope i made some sense to some people 8-)
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PostSat Oct 25, 2008 1:35 pm » by Qiqiba


drjones wrote:Give you a break..Nah i dont think i will m8 :o ....i was merely referencing the Zeitgeist movie and the apparent consistencies within what we call today "religion",how this looks to be an unchanged philosophical method of control going back thousands of years.Thers is not enough space on disclose for me to go into it in great detail but why the same story surfacing for all these supposedly "different" religions time and time again,there really can only be one logical conclusion for me and that is purely CONTROL,which thus in turn tells me "religion" what we think of today is all BS.You can either believe it or not really,not saying it is a BAD thing entirely,i know some very nice church going christian folk but i think at the end of the day you DO have to ask-WHAT IS REAL,IS THIS REAL..and WHY? that's all!
Did a guy really come to earth from a virgin and create wine from water and heal the sick and then get resurected when he died...logically that sounds a bit wrong would'nt you agree.
I DO unquestionably believe in a GOD,but to me it is more of a universal force than some guy in the sky with a white beard and commandments.I think people at the end of the day believe in their chosen religion cos it gives them satisfaction that they are "doing the right thing" by following a set of rules form the "creator".....i believe that the creator whoever or whatever that maybe would not do rules for humankind,everyone on the face of the planet knows good from bad,knows what is the right thing to do,it's not easy it todays corrupt system but we gotta try with all we got to do this....when telling the truth and speaking your mind freely is NOT a crime then will we know we are truly FREE.If someone wants to go and smoke pot-go let em :flop: -nothin to do with me m8-if someone wants to rob a bank-no problem :flop: -when we start making fusses about stuff,that's when we dont get to the REAL ROOT of the problem and answer the question...WHY is that person smoking pot,why is that person robbing a bank..Hmm.. :?: It's the biggest question we can ask...WHY and for me anyway there is not enough of that in todays age,it's what can bring us all together,EVERYONE asks WHY everyday but we dont get a REAL chance answer-we are deemed CRAZY-and i aint got time for that m8-ok what you got time for-beer and football : .I beleive each human has a piece of the answer to WHY and thats what can unite us,our own uniqueness,a gigantic jigsaw puzzle that can only be completed with the uniting of every man woman and child on the planet :flop:

Well i went on more than i wanted to,hope i made some sense to some people 8-)


Thanks for such sincere answer. Fair enough. But I still can not see why would be anything wrong with Jesus being risen from the dead ;)

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PostSat Oct 25, 2008 2:04 pm » by Drjones


Well what could be wrong with something that is completely made up :?: :idea:
I dont think such a person ever existed,why have we no REAL evidence for such a remarkable individual :?:
Anyway i suppose we may never get to the bottom of this with regards to who is right and who is wrong,which i believe is part of the problem with religion as it only succeeds in confusing the hell out of people.The jesus story is a nice one but that's all i believe it to be,a nice STORY :)
Like snowhite and the seven dwarves :shock:
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PostSat Oct 25, 2008 4:15 pm » by Qiqiba


drjones wrote:Well what could be wrong with something that is completely made up :?: :idea:
I dont think such a person ever existed,why have we no REAL evidence for such a remarkable individual :?:

(...)

The jesus story is a nice one but that's all i believe it to be,a nice STORY :)
Like snowhite and the seven dwarves


Excuse me?? :think: Hallo??? :headscratch:

What do you mean by saying we have "no REAL evidence for such remarkable individual"? :?:

You than also don't believe in existence of such individuals as Hannibal, Nefertiti and Bodhisatwa Gautama or Copernicus, right? Cause the evidence for them is equally (non)valid... :rtft: :obsessed: :scary:

Hmmmm... :think:

Right? :help:

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PostSat Oct 25, 2008 5:27 pm » by Drjones


qiqiba wrote:
drjones wrote:Well what could be wrong with something that is completely made up :?: :idea:
I dont think such a person ever existed,why have we no REAL evidence for such a remarkable individual :?:

(...)

The jesus story is a nice one but that's all i believe it to be,a nice STORY :)
Like snowhite and the seven dwarves


Excuse me?? :think: Hallo??? :headscratc

What do you mean by saying we have "no REAL evidence for such remarkable individual"? :?:

You than also don't believe in existence of such individuals as Hannibal, Nefertiti and Bodhisatwa Gautama or Copernicus, right? Cause the evidence for them is equally (non)valid... :rtft: :obsessed: :scary:

Hmmmm... :think:

Right? :help:



Yes that's right :evil:
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PostSat Oct 25, 2008 5:32 pm » by Hannibul


only 4 accounts of jesus, 3 by title " the christ" not any story of details,just a mentioning and one known forgery, but still sighted.
tho recently they did find a bowl in the waters off the coast of Alexandra with the translated inscription "the magician by christ" . or roughly that, heard on Paul Harvey news, this past week of 10/25 while out working. belonged to a guy, belonging to the magi group

tho many historians lived about the area at the time of and after jesus , none of them commented on any presence of jesus.

the example saying there is as much evidence for hannibul nefertiti etc. is just completely lacking in any truth, and a few history courses should be entertained.

on a side note, when jesus was saying he was the father the son and the holy ghost, was he speaking saying he was a super being, or was it like the teaching of other eastern beliefs that the same stuff that makes us makes the stars and you and everyone and everything , that we are all the same and trying to explain a concept on oneness with all to a bunch of people who couldn't truly grasp his concept.
all Christianity <new testament >is ,.. is Buddhism with a western flavor to it.

but anyway.

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PostSat Oct 25, 2008 5:41 pm » by AVIator


qiqiba wrote:
drjones wrote:Well what could be wrong with something that is completely made up :?: :idea:
I dont think such a person ever existed,why have we no REAL evidence for such a remarkable individual :?:

(...)

The jesus story is a nice one but that's all i believe it to be,a nice STORY :)
Like snowhite and the seven dwarves


Excuse me?? :think: Hallo??? :headscratch:

What do you mean by saying we have "no REAL evidence for such remarkable individual"? :?:

You than also don't believe in existence of such individuals as Hannibal, Nefertiti and Bodhisatwa Gautama or Copernicus, right? Cause the evidence for them is equally (non)valid... :rtft: :obsessed: :scary:

Hmmmm... :think:

Right? :help:


Help is on it's way! The crux of this argument now is - do we have any evidence of the existence of Jesus. There is much to be said and I will try to be clear! First, what you said qiqiba is absolutely correct, we take for granted the existence of many historical people spanning thousands of years, many of whom we have even less traces/records of than Jesus. Perhaps because they never claimed be God and whether they really existed or not has no direct influence on our everyday lives so we are not as fussy about proving their existence. How do we know about Jesus? Well, whether you believe that he is God or not, his historical existence is irrefutable, not based solely on the Bible but rather on many extra-biblical texts, that mention him, unless you study theology, you probably wont hear much about them.

Further, it is true that we get all our information from ancient texts, however, looking beyond the pages, we must not forget to look at the influence that the man Jesus himself had on the people immediately around him, who did not rely on texts but on their personal encounter with him. Take the first apostles for example. They were just common fishermen, uneducated, who probably only spoke one language and had probably never ventured much outside their own town. Then they meet Jesus, they leave their livelihoods behind to follow him. Often they misunderstood him, they weren't the sharpest tools in the shed, then came Jesus' trial in the Garden of Gethsemane, the soldiers came to arrest him, Peter tries to fight, but in the end, scared, they all abandon Jesus, and he is crucified. The Apostles are let down - Jesus was their great hope for a Messiah and now he's dead, he was supposed to be the son of God! This is the really interesting part! If Jesus was just an ordinary man, perhaps a charismatic leader but none the less, human like you and me, surely, his death, would have also meant the end of all he had created. In fact, without Jesus, the Apostles had no-one to teach them and they risked their lives being his followers. So how is it, that in the aftermath of the death of Jesus, we have what we may call an explosion of Christianity. The Apostles, those humble fishermen, are now not only speaking different languages but are traveling across seas to preach this Jesus guy raised from the dead. They couldn't believe their eyes either and they weren't gonna accept it without seeing him for themselves. In fact, it is only because they saw Jesus resurrected after his death that they realized the truth.

The rapid spread of Christianity is truly astounding and inexplicable if Jesus wasn't more than just human. The acts of the Apostles like ways. Their acts are well documented not only in the Bible but also in secular historical texts, particular, their doings in Rome.

That's just a brief intro into the historical phenomenon that was Jesus, a whole indepth book could follow. There is also a lot to be said about supernatural phenomena that has occurred and continues to occur today regarding the person Jesus which CANNOT be ignored if we are to take this seriously!

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PostSat Oct 25, 2008 9:16 pm » by Drjones


Well i am far from convinced.To believe that another being walked the planet and was capable of extraordinary things and to see today so very little evidence of this is all the proof i need.To me the bible is more than likely very exagerated in terms of what REALLY happened if any of it happened at all. :hmmm:
So how would people behave if their were no religious text in the world,would we all just sit there motionless staring at the sky...i dont think so,i think we could get along just fine,probably much better without the need to feel inferior to anything or anybody.I still believe that religion is only real in terms of being very appealing to the human psyche which makes us far easier to control.For instance there are many people alive right now who believe BECAUSE OF THE BIBLE that we are now living in the last days-that mentality works against humanity does it not....so basically that makes any catastrophic event that may occur OK because the bible said so.....i don't think so,it's all control people,we need to be free-dont you think there is people out there who know what you think is real and what you believe,of course they do and they use this to their advantage to gain more power over us.It's all SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST in this present age unfortunately,this DOES NEED to change for us,humanity to make REAL progress TOGETHER,divided no more-united as one we stand for all time :flop:
I liked the matrix movies sort of trying to explain the concept of "the one" which was ultimately used for control.
The real people "in the know" who have constructed society as we see today have a plan for us all and i dont believe there intentions are very good at all.....mass extinctions have happened throughout the centuries and most people believe that it was an act of GOD shall we say and thus just...are we really that helpless...would a loving creator make our lives on this Earth so treacherous...i dont think so...i think obviously we are corruptable in todays modern age more than ever but like i have said before i do believe in a universal force that created everything but the REAL TRUTH to this has been lost through the ages especially with all the crazy media and newspapers we now got.Good vs Evil certainly exists-ying and yang,but they are forces,ie-the devil isnt a guy with horns and a tail and stokes the fires of hell and god isnt a guy in the sky with a white beard....anyways it is complex and controversial the subject of religion....but i dont believe any of it in terms of what we know today.Hey if i'm wrong i'm wrong-i'll goto hell then wont i,my loving creator will send me to hell for having thoughts :|

Peace for all mankind :flop:
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PostSat Oct 25, 2008 10:59 pm » by Qiqiba


hannibul wrote:only 4 accounts of jesus, 3 by title " the christ" not any story of details,just a mentioning and one known forgery, but still sighted.


One simple question: are those "accounts" of yours more valid than gospels? So many written sources, but you take as valid only some of them... What are your criteria?

hannibul wrote:tho many historians lived about the area at the time of and after jesus , none of them commented on any presence of jesus.


Yeah, so many of them professionals... Namely?

hannibul wrote:the example saying there is as much evidence for hannibul nefertiti etc. is just completely lacking in any truth, and a few history courses should be entertained.


Here you are right! Hannibal, Nefertiti etc. don't have even 10% of Jesus' evidence. Just some crappy arabic copies of roman historians from 9th century and stuff like that...

hannibul wrote:on a side note, when jesus was saying he was the father the son and the holy ghost, was he speaking saying he was a super being, or was it like the teaching...


What? :?: He never said anything like that. :ohno: ... No further comments, your honour... :D


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